Edumacate Me on Punches...

cudacharlie · Feb 22, 2006

Okay experts... :bowdown:

I'm toolin' up from scratch for the garage refurb of my old mopars, and not being a trained mech ( :headscrat

) I'm a little overwhelmed by the various types of punches out there. I thought I knew what a center punch was for, but now I'm not so sure!

I'm a little unclear as to which types of punches I would probably never use and could ignore for the moment. I'll be farming out the real engine building and bodywork.... I'll just do teardown and reassembly, as well as whatever refurb and rebuild of suspension and drivetrain I can handle.

For example: I've seen roll pins all over my rides, but I've never installed or removed one... Will I need the appropriate punch to even think about knocking one out (or installing one), and if so, what punch would that be? Is a 'rollpin punch' the same thing as a 'pin punch'?

So....... What types (drift, starter, pin, rollpin, center.....), how many of each (1? 2? 14?), what sizes/ranges, what materials (steel, aluminum, brass, nylon) will I need?

I almost bought the facom 10 piece shock-absorbing punch+chisel set (very ****)...

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/skf61560.html

But then I thought that if that set would only go halfway towards meeting my needs, that I should maybe buy a wider variety of cheaper punches.

Opinions? Recommendations? Thanks in advance! :thumbup:

l_bilyk · Feb 22, 2006

Take a look here:

http://www.mayhew.com/products.htm

I like mayhew stuff best.

dink · Feb 22, 2006

l_bilyk said:
Take a look here:

http://www.mayhew.com/products.htm

I like mayhew stuff best.

Mayhew makes most of everyones stuff like Facom, SK, Snap-on those sort of names....I wouldnt buy from the brands....buy directly from Mayhew and save a few bucks....also look into there Dominator line....it has a heavy duty handle on the end and the steel goes all the way to the cap

I used to be a sales representative for Mayhew in the North Texas region

eschoendorff · Feb 22, 2006

Mayhew makes these for Facom? In France? :headscrat

BTW... the Facoms are my favorite too! :thumbup:

dink · Feb 22, 2006

Facom's chisels are not made by Facom....the handles are made by them but not the steel....Mayhew makes the chisels and punches and sends it over.....When Mayhews president was visiting my rep agency (when I was with the rep agency) showed the list of Companies they make stuff for....and Facom was one of them

Here is an example of a product Mayhew makes for SK

http://www.mayhew.com/products/new2.htm

And here is the SK with green handles instead of red

http://www.skhandtool.com/pc_subsection.cfm?tok=1&ItemID=7565&BPC=J3d
http://www.skhandtool.com/images/itemimages/90245_for_web.jpg

chevy302dz · Feb 22, 2006

Starret is the way to go for punches

Uncle Buck · Feb 22, 2006

I have never had Starret punches, assuming they have not sent them across the pond (like their value line) I am sure they would be great. I have alot of Mayhew stuff, alignment bars, prybars etc.. and I consider their stuff to be top shelf. I would put their stuff up against anyone elses!

dink · Feb 22, 2006

hholmberg said:
I have never had Starret punches, assuming they have not sent them across the pond (like their value line) I am sure they would be great. I have alot of Mayhew stuff, alignment bars, prybars etc.. and I consider their stuff to be top shelf. I would put their stuff up against anyone elses!

Mayhew's direct competition is Enderes

chevy302dz · Feb 22, 2006

Here is a link to the Starrett punches
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2222709&PMT4NO=5040536

Uncle Buck · Feb 22, 2006

I have some Enderes stuff too, but I have never liked their stuff as good as Mayhew.

kartracer55 · Feb 22, 2006

I dont think your question was really answered, so ill try.

As you know, there are many different types of punches out there. The one I find myself using the most is the Pin punch. Its a good general purpose punch, so get a set of these for sure. Ihave a set of short mayhews (ok, well THOSE are my dads) and I own a set of snap ons.

You will also want a set of brass drifts... they arnt exactly drift punches, but usually called that. They are just soft punches so you dont hack up parts when you need to drive them. I have a set of these from sears, by mayhew that go for about 15$

A real drift punch is just a punch with a taper to it to line up two holes. Ive only got a small one of these, For every thing else I just use a pin punch and sort of pry... Eventually Ill buy a full set. You can just pry with your pin punches and accomplish the same thing for MOST jobs.

I have always known center punches to be used with starting holes for drilling, Maybe there is another use, but this is all I use them for. I think the other type of center punch you were talking about is a ***** punch. These are oldschool. You might find a real machinese using these... You lay out your work with dy-chem (MMmm dy-chem lol) and find the center of a large hole, and then use a compass to scribe out the hole. Its hard to explian, but they are used for marking out proof circles and intersections for "precision" work.

If you have alot of roll pins, get a set. Roll pin punches are pin punches that have a little dimple on the end to keep the thing centered on/in the roll pin. If your careful you can use a regular punch (like I do when I see them once in a great while) but if your doing alot you might as well give in.

As for quality, The snap ons are nice, but honestly, the sears punches and chisels hold up well. I have a few odds and ends from sears and I have not had anyproblems. They might actually be made by mayhew, alot of guys will tell you this, but I cant prove that. On that note, Mayhew stuff is regarded as being great quality, Ive never had any problems. I have individual punches from starrett as well as some general.

EDIT #1- My personal opinion is that punches are hack tools. As long as they are made in the US anybrand should do fine. Dont overlook sears.

EDIT #2 - This is just my opinion, Im not a pro wrench, take it for what its worth

Jim

Uncle Buck · Feb 22, 2006

I think if a guy has no punches and needs a good basic set, you will not go wrong with Craftsman, I have a bunch of their stuff, and a handfull of other branded stuff as well, for the $ you won't beat em.

l_bilyk · Feb 22, 2006

kartracer55 said:
EDIT #1- My personal opinion is that punches are hack tools. As long as they are made in the US anybrand should do fine. Dont overlook sears.

EDIT #2 - This is just my opinion, Im not a pro wrench, take it for what its worth

Jim

^indeed

Chinese punches tend to mushroom quickly. So i don't think you need to spend hundreds of dollars on fancy shock absorbing punches with built in clocks and whatnot. Just get a decent, plain, high grade steel set.

dink · Feb 22, 2006

Mayhew also makes the Craftsmen line so you could go that route too

eschoendorff · Feb 22, 2006

dink said:
Mayhew also makes the Craftsmen line so you could go that route too

Yeah, and they have a set of punches that goes on sale every once in a while through the Craftsman Club. That's how I got my set. Here it is (to give you an idea what comes with it (the junk on the left). BTW, the large chisel and the one situated diagonally were not part of the set.

Fast Orange · Feb 22, 2006

I've gotta go with Jim on this one.Just go to sears and get the most complete set they have. If you want to get fancy,find a clamp-on punch/chisel holder-or just use vise-grips if you're nervous about hitting your hand. All of that fancy shock absorbing/hand guard stuff only gets in the way and costs more. Unless you have a particular,repetitive task for a particular punch,just stick with the basics.
On a safety note- after hard use,you will see the struck end of the punch/chisel start to "mushroom. Simply grind/sand or file the end back to it's original shape when it becomes noticable.Always wear eye protection when using punches and chisels-hardened tools and whatever you are working on can and will shatter upon hard impact-I've had several close calls.

George

cudacharlie · Feb 22, 2006

You guys rule! Thanks for the info, opinions, and pics! I can see that a little goes a long way when it comes to punch and chisel sets, now that I've studied the mayhew section on sjdiscountttols.com... Although I did find this on the internet:

"24-piece punch set with heated shock-absorbing all-weather gel grips and 24 carat gold embossed Ferrari logo = $1,833.00"

- just kidding! :lol_hitti

kartracer55 · Feb 22, 2006

George brings up a good point with the holders. Holders are like 10$ from MSC... I probably should get one, but I usually use a larger hammer than I need and just choke up on it accordingly. The large face helps because im un-coordinated hahah

Jim

mark_w · Feb 22, 2006

Dont buy the cheap pin punch set at HF. I gave in and one mushroomed the first time I used it (trying to drive the extractor pin from an S&W auto pistol - didn't even get it to move). Next payday I get a set from sears.

edit - Brownells has a what looks like a good set too.

motorheadjohn · Feb 22, 2006

I've got the Craftsman punch & chisel set, which includes 6 straight punches, 2 taper, 4 chisels, and 2 center punches.

The straight punches have worked fine for all the roll pins on my Mopars, including the strut rods and the steering coupler. The chisels have come in handy a few times for exhaust work and removing bushing shells from control arms before I had air tools.

I would suggest getting the Craftsman straight punch set only (6pc) and go back for chisels or other items later if you need them.

I also picked up some brass drifts at swap meets along the way for seating bearing races.

eschoendorff · Feb 22, 2006

cudacharlie said:
"24-piece punch set with heated shock-absorbing all-weather gel grips and 24 carat gold embossed Ferrari logo = $1,833.00"

- just kidding!

That's too funny... and I was ready to believe you, too! :lol:

Lightning · May 14, 2008

I use brass punches to remove bearing races. Brass is soft and will not mar delicate parts easily. Just remember to wear eye protection when hammering on punches because a damaged eye is expensive to replace.

billymade · May 14, 2008

I like punch holders! Here are two below that would do the trick; Craftsman inexpensive and Snap-On high end!

Craftsman Punch and Chisel Holder $9.99
Sears item# 00942839000 Mfr. model# 42839

Snapon Stock # PPC5A
Name Punch/Chisel Holder
Price** $33.50

garfunkle24 · May 14, 2008

Just another note on punch uses; Centre punches are also used for 'peening'. This is when you punch the outside of a shaft or the inside of a bearing housing to make a bearing (or any press fit part) fit tighter. The punch makes a hole but actually displaces the metal around it outwards. This is often done to ensure the bearing actually does it's job, rather than the inner race spinning on the shaft or the outer race spinning in the housing.

Also, simple brass or aluminum bar stock can be used for making 'soft' (non-marking) punches and steel bar stock or any old steel shaft will great for making big drift punches.

Also, IMHO, the 'automatic' centre punches which are spring loaded do not work too well.

Uncle Buck · May 14, 2008

garfunkle24 said:
Also, IMHO, the 'automatic' centre punches which are spring loaded do not work too well.

Funny, I have a cheap General automatic that I have had great luck with, works great. :headscrat

:

Stick · May 15, 2008

Most of my craftsman punches have been replaced one by one with snap-on punches. I warrantied out the craftsman ones, and they now reside in my road chest. They are fine to start out with, but if you use them a lot, you'll notice that they mushroom out pretty bad.

eschoendorff · May 15, 2008

Stick said:
Most of my craftsman punches have been replaced one by one with snap-on punches. I warrantied out the craftsman ones, and they now reside in my road chest. They are fine to start out with, but if you use them a lot, you'll notice that they mushroom out pretty bad.

Yeh, i have noticed that the Craftsman ones aren't the most durable either. I have some old no-names that seem indestructible....

I have also had good luck with Blackhawk and Proto... but the Facom ones are my all-time favorite!

garfunkle24 · May 15, 2008

hholmberg said:
Funny, I have a cheap General automatic that I have had great luck with, works great. :

I tried a snappy one and also a Mac and they didn't work too well for me. Maybe the General one is better, or maybe we just use them for different stuff.

Crasen · May 15, 2008

I have a Lisle spring loaded center punch and it works fine for centerpunching aluminum or sheet metal. If I need to centerpunch thick steel for anything larger than a pilot hole I use a regular centerpunch and a hammer.

garfunkle24 · May 16, 2008

hholmberg said:
Funny, I have a cheap General automatic that I have had great luck with, works great. :

Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to say (and realise i didn't) that the automatic punches are not good for peening. I do use them for marking stuff out if I want to be fairly precise, otherwise a paint pen does the job.

Elroy · Nov 13, 2008

Sense Elroy is now known for "alternative" tool storage. He thought he would post up few shots of his "punch storage". Elroy originally got this idea from the good folks at Starrett in that they used to offer their pin punches is a wooden storage tube. It is Elroy's understanding these are no longer offered by Starrett. But that didn't stop Elroy from whipping up something similar. Besides he needed a good way to store 99 cent punches that actually work well

The hex body prevents the "holder" from rolling and the size was chosen to fit inside one of the tool box drawers when on its side. Go ahead make one for your self. It's unique and works well.

Brad54 · Nov 13, 2008

I've got a pretty big assortment of punches, chisels and drifts. I started it off with the Craftsman set, and I HIGHLY recommend that set. Decent quality steel, and if you dress the ends, they'll last forever. *
I've got a bunch of different sizes of chisels...as you get more hands-on and do some more fabrication from scratch, different chisels can come in handy, but that's a long way off.

What I have a ton of are alignment tools, or tapered drifts. I can't live without these. There is NOTHING worse than trying to get two holes lined up for a bolt. Get as many different sizes of these as you can, and keep an eye out for them at swap meets and antique stores for the rest of your life. I've got long, short, fat, very thin, and use them all for everything from lining parts up on the garage door track to getting the trans to line up on its mounting holes to getting the leaf spring eyes to line up with the bolt hole. I've got one that's a lot wider than you'd think would ever get used, but I use that one a bunch too.

As mentioned earlier, there are two kinds of center punches: one has a very sharp point, the other has a wide, shallow point. Mark and set the center of a hole to be drilled with the sharp one, then open up the mark with the wide shallow point, and then place the drill bit in it to make the hole. It takes a little extra time, but the results are worth it.

I still haven't gotten a holder, but have whacked my knuckles and cried like a little girl more than once, so it should probably be on my Christmas list this year.

Find the cheapest brass drift and punch you can--they're sacrificial tools, so it makes no sense to buy an expensive name-brand one.

I spend a good bit of time wrenching on my buddies' stuff at their houses, and most of them don't have a set of tapered drifts...it drives me absolutely insane. You'll waste SO much time trying to line up holes, when you could just stab the drift in there and line them up... I'm buying my best friend a Craftsman set for Christmas...mainly because I hate working over there without them.

-Brad
* I dress the ends of my punches and chisels every time I use them. It takes a couple seconds on the bench grinder, and keeps them safe: sparking off little shards of a mushroomed head is dangerous.

Flash21 · Nov 14, 2008

Guys - So are the Craftsman punches and chisels sold today with the bright red "E-coat" made by Mayhew?

Like this:

Craftsman 28 pc. Punch and Chisel Set
Each tool is made of tough rust resistant chrome vanadium steel, double heat-treated for durability and impact resistance. Set includes: 4 (4 in. nail sets: 1/32, 2/32, 3/32, 4/32 in.); 1 ***** punch (3/8 x 4-1/2 in.); 2 center punches (3/8 x 4-1/2, 1/2 x 6 in.); 6 pin punches (1/16 x 4, 3/32 x 4, 1/8 x 4 1/2, 5/32 x 5, 3/16 x 5, 1/4 x 5-1/2 in.); 4 alignment tools (5/32 x 7, 3/16 x 9, 1/8 x 5-1/2, 1/4 x 12 in.); 6 cold chisels (1/4 x 4, 3/8 x 5, 1/2 x 5-3/4, 5/8 x 6, 3/4 x 6-1/2, 7/8 x 7-1/2 in.); 4 (12-in. cold chisels: 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 in); 1 (16 in.) pry bar. Weight: 9.47 lbs.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00943164000P

I like the look of these:

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