Got my Mitsubishi mini-split finished today...

Jim Dawson · Nov 5, 2015

Last week I installed my Mitsubishi mini-split and today the HVAC guy came and hooked up the line set, pumped it down and started it. It appears to be working fine. It isn't cold enough to need it yet, but I set it on 75 and its blowing hot air as it should. I guess I can set it for cold and try the A/C mode. It's really quiet both inside and outside. I hope it will deal with our cold winters like the literature claims it will.

chrispyny · Nov 5, 2015

Cool man. How much did the hvac guy charge you to turn up the system?

Jim Dawson · Nov 5, 2015

chrispyny said:
cool man. How much did the hvac guy charge you to turn up the system?

$200

Ohmthis · Nov 6, 2015

Jim, do you mind posting up the model(s) number and where you got the system? There is a huge interest in them and that could help someone out. Thanks!

Slowgsr · Nov 6, 2015

Sounds just like me, except my hvac guy charged me 250. I installed my heater in the summer and my AC in the winter

Jim Dawson · Nov 6, 2015

Ohmthis said:
Jim, do you mind posting up the model(s) number and where you got the system? There is a huge interest in them and that could help someone out. Thanks!

I bought this one:
Mitsubishi MZ-FH15NA

Mitsubishi - 15,000 BTU 22 SEER Wall Mount Ductless Split Heat Pump System 208/230V w/ i-see & H2i Hyper Heat

Mitsubishi MZ-FH15NA - M-Series, 1-1/4 Ton, Inverter-Driven, Wall Mounted Heat Pump System w/ i-see Sensor Technology & H2i Hyper Heat - 15,000 BTU, 22 SEER, 12.0 HSPF, R410A, 208/230V System Includes: MUZ-FH15NA, MSZ-FH15NA

http://www.comfortup.com/mitsubishi...t-pump-system-208-230v-w-i-see-h2i-hyper-heat

It took about a week to get here. The driver unloaded it with a lift gate and used a pallet loader to roll it down my driveway and into my garage. The whole purchase was a pleasant experience.

It hasn't had to do much work yet as the low was 45 last night but it kept the garage just where I set it.

Jim Dawson · Nov 6, 2015

This chart is what helped me decide on this particular unit.

koditten · Nov 6, 2015

Please update these M. S. Threads with pics of outside temps and and pics of heat being discharged into the structure.

Looking forward to some cold weather updates on the function of these things. Have been intrigued for some time.

Thanks in advance.

dfiler2 · Nov 7, 2015

A guy at work put two of these Mitsubishi units in 3 years ago, he hears the elec baseboard come on at about 15 below. They love them!

Jim Dawson · Nov 7, 2015

dfiler2 said:
A guy at work put two of these Mitsubishi units in 3 years ago, he hears the elec baseboard come on at about 15 below. They love them!

That's encouraging. I don't think I'll ever see -15 here and if I do, I'll be hibernating in the house anyway.

theoldwizard1 · Nov 7, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
This chart is what helped me decide on this particular unit.

How about a follow up on a cold February day ? I'm sure every one would like to know how well that unit works when it is near zero or below.

Jim Dawson · Nov 7, 2015

theoldwizard1 said:
How about a follow up on a cold February day ? I'm sure every one would like to know how well that unit works when it is near zero or below.

I'll update when it gets cold here. Hopefully, I won't see near zero very many times.

The only thing I worry about is the drain pan freezing as I didn't buy the $250drain pan heater.

bonneyman · Nov 7, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
$200

Dang, that was a deal!

justinjoyal · Nov 8, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
I'll update when it gets cold here. Hopefully, I won't see near zero very many times.

The only thing I worry about is the drain pan freezing as I didn't buy the $250drain pan heater.

Why would it freeze ?

Jim Dawson · Nov 8, 2015

justinjoyal said:
Why would it freeze ?

Because the drain metal pan on the outside unit is exposed to the freezing temperatures. When it is really cold, why wouldn't the water in it freeze?

Craptain · Nov 8, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
$200

Not bad. When I did mine I asked a "buddy" and he wanted $1000 because he was pissed at me doing it myself. I finally did the whole thing myself including vacuum and found another tech who just charged a regular service call to leak check the system. He also looked over the whole installation and congratulated me on the work then told me I shouldn't have done it as my certification is for mobile not residential. I knew that of course.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

justinjoyal · Nov 8, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
Because the drain metal pan on the outside unit is exposed to the freezing temperatures. When it is really cold, why wouldn't the water in it freeze?

And why would water be trapped in there ?

Unless the drain holes are clogged by debris or whatever, I have yet to see an exterior unit with ice build up.

If the unit is installed high enough from the ground so snow doesn't get in it, there should not be a problem unless you encounter some serious storm or something.

thammel · Nov 8, 2015

The condensate will only collect when the unit is operating as an air conditioner. During the cold season, there will be on condensate, so nothing to freeze.

Tom

thammel · Nov 8, 2015

That should be "no condensate". Darn dsylexia!!!

Jim Dawson · Nov 9, 2015

thammel said:
The condensate will only collect when the unit is operating as an air conditioner. During the cold season, there will be on condensate, so nothing to freeze.

Tom

The condensate will flow from the inside air handler when its used as an air conditioner and from the outside condenser when it's heating. The outside unit is what I am worried about. There is a warning about it in the manual.

It is mounted well above any possible snow accumulation so maybe it won't be a problem, just paranoia on my part.

justinjoyal · Nov 9, 2015

The only reason for condensate on the outside is during defrost but it's not really a problem, in my experience.

Jim Dawson · Nov 9, 2015

justinjoyal said:
The only reason for condensate on the outside is during defrost but it's not really a problem, in my experience.

I'm glad to hear it, thanks.

thammel · Nov 9, 2015

I have 2 heat pumps for my house on pads I poured. There's never been a defrost condensate issue. There is no difference with a mini split....the outside unit is just the same as the typical split system. There will be no freezing problems. You'll be fine. There are probably millions of heat pumps in the US that operate all winter. The problems are usually blown starting capacitors, etc.

Tom

muncie21 · Nov 16, 2015

Congrats Jim, I had a similar Mitsubishi unit put in this week. Waiting for the warm spell to pass by and see if the hyper-heat lives up to its name.

Jim Dawson · Nov 22, 2015

Just an update, last night it got down to 19F and it is still only 21F but the garage is still at 70F just like I left it yesterday. I won't always have it that warm when I'm not in it but wanted to see how it would do. So far, so good.

theoldwizard1 · Nov 22, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
Just an update, last night it got down to 19F and it is still only 21F but the garage is still at 70F just like I left it yesterday. I won't always have it that warm when I'm not in it but wanted to see how it would do. So far, so good.

Impressive ! Do you have anyway to monitor power usage ?

Jim Dawson · Nov 22, 2015

theoldwizard1 said:
Impressive ! Do you have anyway to monitor power usage ?

Only by checking the power bill next month.

muncie21 · Nov 22, 2015

Any 220/230 power monitors available to 'normal' folk?

fastjohnny · Nov 23, 2015

muncie21 said:
Any 220/230 power monitors available to 'normal' folk?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YY1KOHA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

bzinsky · Nov 23, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
The condensate will flow from the inside air handler when its used as an air conditioner and from the outside condenser when it's heating. The outside unit is what I am worried about. There is a warning about it in the manual.

It is mounted well above any possible snow accumulation so maybe it won't be a problem, just paranoia on my part.

They produce quite a bit of water on the outside unit but they won't be a problem unless it is not level and cannot drain properly.

When I was watching mine, they would completely freeze up inside, and then it would heat itself up and all the ice would melt, happened about every 15 minutes.

muncie21 · Nov 23, 2015

fastjohnny said:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YY1KOHA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Thanks FJ. I like the note reminding the user to disconnect power before installing the donut portion of the CT. :shocking:

Heel2toe · Nov 24, 2015

Hey Jim glad to hear your Minisplit is working out well for you! So I had a couple folks get back to me regarding quotes for a minisplit to hear my garage and Im leaning towards one of the Mitsubishi Hyper Heat models like you installed.

Just out of curiosity, how did you perform your heat loss calculation? Is there a specific calculator online that you leveraged?

I know there is a lot to take into account like the size of building ceiling height level of insulation, location direction of sun, etc. so I just want to make sure that the unit I move forward with is properly sized.

The first company that came out simply took the L x W and then multiplied it by a factor or 40 or 30, I dont remember off the top of my head. This seemed like a crude means of calculating this IMO and ended up recommending a 15000BTU unit. I was skepticle of this of course.

The second guy was far more thorough and took into account all those other factors and came back with needing 20,772 BTU @ 9 degrees and recommended the FH-18 as its rated at 20,300 @ 9 degrees.

Now I have no reason to not trust this second guy as he seemed much more thorough but I'd love to hear how you calculated it as well as your real word findings having used it for a little bit now.

Thanks in advance!

Jim Dawson · Nov 24, 2015

The only calculations I made was to find a unit that said it was adequate for my 576 square feet garage. The unit I chose says it is good for 500-750 sq.ft. so that is what I bought. I haven't had a night any colder than 19F but it did great then.

Heel2toe · Nov 24, 2015

Do you mind sharing the link that includes the square footage ratings of your unit? The FH-18 that Im told should work well for me I believe is the next size up from what you have. And from a square footage perspective the first floor of my garage is 768 (32x24) however when you talk about area not volume its a concern as I've got 12'6" ceiling on the left and 9'2" on the right side so I'd imagine a lot of that heat could get trapped in the ceiling unfortunately.

Now, I assume the HVAC guy's calculation was extremely thorough in this regard and I do believe that is the case since he took all of those measurements but who knows if the heat loss calculation was actually completed vs ballparking it based on his experience?

Radix2 · Nov 24, 2015

Heel2toe said:
Do you mind sharing the link that includes the square footage ratings of your unit? The FH-18 that Im told should work well for me I believe is the next size up from what you have. And from a square footage perspective the first floor of my garage is 768 (32x24) however when you talk about area not volume its a concern as I've got 12'6" ceiling on the left and 9'2" on the right side so I'd imagine a lot of that heat could get trapped in the ceiling unfortunately.

Now, I assume the HVAC guy's calculation was extremely thorough in this regard and I do believe that is the case since he took all of those measurements but who knows if the heat loss calculation was actually completed vs ballparking it based on his experience?

Square footage is pretty meaningless since they seldom are for any specific climate - also in the north, the key factor is heating, where most of the mini split specs are geared around cooling ( and semitropical humid Asia at that). On top of that, garages with their big badly sealed doors are unlike good insulated interior spaces.

So the best bet is to post your location, contruction and expectations to see if others have already tried something close.

Slantfin has a good app for doing your own heat loss if you have an iOS device, there are many others online to try as well to get a range of guesses - try a search for them.

Heel2toe · Nov 24, 2015

Thanks, yeah I figured square footage was sorta meaningless and wasnt too thrilled from the first company that came over as that is all he took into account. The second guy was far more thorough so I have no reason to not trust him but I'd also like to double check the math myself as at the end of the day I'll be the one living with it.

My house is in Massachusetts and the garage is a stick built gambrel style 2x4 construction(darn!) but the floor joist are 2x8 and rafters 2x10 IIRC. Its a 32x24 with 4 windows 2 insulated and 2 older units (for now, just bought the place a few months ago) as well as 2 insulated 8' garage doors and a man door. The structure isn't insulated yet but that's in the works. Shooting for R15 in the walls and R30 in the ceiling. I wont be heating the 2nd floor and will make a trap door to close off that area above as Im only trying to heat the first floor.

Jim Dawson · Nov 24, 2015

Even though square feet is "sorta meaningless", here is the ad for my unit which will do just fine in south central Illinois.
http://www.comfortup.com/mitsubishi-mz-fh15na-15-000-btu-22-seer-wall-mount-ductless-split-heat-pump-system-208-230v-w-i-see-h2i-hyper-heat

Git · Nov 24, 2015

When I bought my Mr Slim last year - I dealt with eComfort and was very happy. They offer "free professional sizing" and I took them up on the offer and they provided me with just about an exact list on what to buy

They have a worksheet you can download and email them or you can give them a call:
http://www.ecomfort.com/stories/1120-Air-Conditioner-Sizing-Chart-by-Square-Footage.html

Heel2toe · Nov 25, 2015

Thanks for the links guys. I completed the sizing guide on ecomfort but was a little unsure of some of the answers honestly talking about improvements in the walls. I assume theyre referring to insulation but still it seemed a little vague as a 2x4 construction is going to have less insulation potential vs 2x6 obviously.

I guess at the end of the day I can always call a few more companies and get sizing and quotes from them as well. I try to get at least 3 quotes but the 2nd guy is a friend of a friend and quoted me $3600 for an fh-18 installed which seemed considerably less than the going rate so I felt comfortable enough with that. We shall see...but thanks again for your feedback and please fill us in if you have any interesting observations as you continue to use it.

theoldwizard1 · Nov 25, 2015

Jim Dawson said:
Only by checking the power bill next month.

Reasonable. It would be nice for a 3, 6 and 12 mo follow up on how much your bill went up.

Got my Mitsubishi mini-split finished today...

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