To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

"Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
I recently acquired a 50's model Craftsman 7-inch bench grinder, which is known as a "Pre-Block" model. I've owned a dozen of the later Block models, but never one of the early versions. I set about trying to learn more about their history, but found very little accolades for them--so why no love?

I'd like to hear comments from other owners, as my first impressions are very favorable. I'll start this thread with what I have already gleaned from mine:

--The housing is cast iron as opposed to the die-cast aluminum alloy used in the later Block models. This makes the grinder much heavier and stable under use. My 7-inch Pre-Block tips the scale at a tad over 55 lbs, which I believe is nearly twice that of a comparable alloy block grinder. Plus, cast iron has more internal damping than alloy aluminum, so it runs quieter.

--The motor structure is far more substantial than the later versions. I didn't split the cases on mine, but was able to measure some key dimensions with the center sheet metal removed. My Pre-Block is rated at 1/3 HP, and employs a 2-inch thick lamination stack and a 3.5" diameter rotor. In contrast, a 1/2 HP Block has a 1.5" stack and a much smaller 2.62" diameter rotor!

--Amperage of my 1/3 HP Pre-Block is 5.5 amps, which is about what an early 1/2 HP Block draws. More significant is that it is over an amp more than my 1/2 HP Baldor and Rockwell grinders of comparable build & weight. This is a powerful grinder!

--Construction is heavy duty throughout. For example the rests are bigger/thicker, and absolutely more rigid. The eye shield frames are heavier gauge: I measured .063" thick (16 gauge) when I couldn't bend the tabs to remove the glass! Even the arbor shaft is heavier, and much thicker inside the rotor.

--Operation is much like the later Blocks, with the extra oomph of the capacitor start, and the long running at turn off. The Pre-Blocks used centrifugal switching of the start winding (as opposed to the current-sensing relay), yet it is also of very high quality and engineered for long life, but it does reduce the spool down somewhat.

There doesn't seem to be any downside to these older models, so why does all the attention go to the later versions? Surely, I'm not alone here.
 

Attachments

  • preblock1.jpg
    preblock1.jpg
    139.5 KB · Views: 933
  • preblock2.jpg
    preblock2.jpg
    137.6 KB · Views: 693
  • preblock3.jpg
    preblock3.jpg
    130 KB · Views: 614
  • preblock4.jpg
    preblock4.jpg
    143.9 KB · Views: 722
  • preblock5.jpg
    preblock5.jpg
    147.6 KB · Views: 624
  • preblock6.jpg
    preblock6.jpg
    138.1 KB · Views: 503
  • preblock7.jpg
    preblock7.jpg
    132.5 KB · Views: 511
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Itinerant

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,040
Location
Behind the Zion Curtain
Maybe there just aren't as many of them kicking around. I think most members here appreciate a well constructed, well preserved or restored machine of any type and would talk about them if they had them.

Like you, I've owned about a dozen of the blocks and still have four but I've never encountered a pre-block in the wild.

Thanks for the info.

Edit: Your pics didn't show for me when I first opened the thread, that is one good looking machine. :beer:
 
Last edited:

jakemac

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
9,035
Location
New England
I think the reason you don't see as much gushing over the pre-blocks is because they generally get posted into the block grinder thread and are overshadowed as the predecessor. Most people have difficulty noting the differences, even though they may seem clear to us Blockheads.

Glad to see them get their own thread.
 

jobo1004

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
505
Location
Kansas City, MO
--Amperage of my 1/3 HP Pre-Block is 5.5 amps, which is about what an early 1/2 HP Block draws. More significant is that it is over an amp more than my 1/2 HP Baldor and Rockwell grinders of comparable build & weight. This is a powerful grinder!

Any chance the Baldor & Rockwell units have higher efficiency motors? I wouldn't think amp draw alone would be the best indication of motor power.
 
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
Any chance the Baldor & Rockwell units have higher efficiency motors? I wouldn't think amp draw alone would be the best indication of motor power.

Many years ago when these grinders were made, the horsepower rating was much more "accurate" compared to contemporary ratings. A 1/4 hp electric motor was about the size of a modern 1hp table saw motor. (That's not saying that 1/4=1hp, just their RATING). So I agree that amperage rating alone is not a true indicator, but more likely is that a 1/3hp Pre-Block is really more comparable to a later 1/2-3/4hp model Block/Baldor/Rockwell etc due to changes in how they were rated.
 
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
Don't call me surely, but no, you're not alone and I completely agree with your assessment. I sold my 1/2hp block in favor of that same 1/3hp model, 115.7566. I'm not quite done yet.



Looks great so far. I like the outlet on the back, presumably for a lamp :thumbup:

I assume you took the grinder apart for painting---do you recall the bearings numbers? 6202?​
 

FrankLee

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
3,547
Location
seMI, 48317
Looks great so far. I like the outlet on the back, presumably for a lamp :thumbup:

I assume you took the grinder apart for painting---do you recall the bearings numbers? 6202?

Thanks. Yes, outlet is switched for lamp. Refurb details here.

Yes, bearings are 6202 with standard bore. The Accurate Bearing invoice has them listed as .590 x 1.3378 x .433 . They were only $3.77 each (Nachi Japan).
 
Last edited:

bobcatdan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
9,948
Location
Kaukauna,WI
I must be ignorant as I would have considered all the grinders pictured as blocks. Guess I'm not a block owner but a pre block owner.
 

fatfillup

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
10,271
Location
Finksburg, Md
Just don't see the pre block ones. Note, your grinder is gorgeous!!

I go to a lot of tool auctions and buy several blocks a year. Can't recall the last pre block I saw though I have seen them.
 

ecotec

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
5,409
I love mine. It bogs down very easily, though (it is just 1/4HP). It is original finish, and looks like it was made a couple years ago.
 

pendragon1998

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
3,733
Location
NE Georgia
Check out my restoration thread (link in my signature). I also have a blog series on my pre-block in progress at michael-parrish.com which is more or less a revision of my thread, but my next post will have some new completed-ish photos, once I get to it.

attachment.php
 

timbitca

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
966
Location
Moncton, NB, Canada
Beautiful grinders guys, still searching for a vintage Craftsman grinder here. Have only seen one for sale on Kijiji within 3-hours drive of me, and it was in sad shape and I didn't manage to snag it.

Hoping the Canadian dollar creeps back up a bit and my Girlfriend wants to take a shopping trip to Maine, might end up buying a few things off CL ;)
 

dodge610

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
5,467
Location
North Canton Ohio
I have a pre block grinder bought it last year for a quick $20.00 missing a few pieces. Just have to keep hunting till i find them. The hunt is half the fun.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Ridjobradi

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
70
Re: "Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?

I prefer the look of the pre-block, but haven't seen as many. I was also pulled to the 1/2 hp rating compared to the 1/3 hp rating. I have been hoping to trade my blocks for comparable round top models.

Most of my equipment is pre-WWII and the round tops fit better in the shop.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

72highboy

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
269
Location
So Cal
Hmm.. Didn't realize the difference.. Except for the earlier ones that are completely round..
What do you guys think, block or pre block?351a8bdcc0cde68b7bccec87f2ce692d.jpg1b4f683b8a85e296f467cfc0342cad39.jpg
I should be picking it up tomorrow..

Cheers

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 351a8bdcc0cde68b7bccec87f2ce692d.jpg
    351a8bdcc0cde68b7bccec87f2ce692d.jpg
    84.3 KB · Views: 108
  • 1b4f683b8a85e296f467cfc0342cad39.jpg
    1b4f683b8a85e296f467cfc0342cad39.jpg
    48.6 KB · Views: 112
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
Hmm.. Didn't realize the difference.. Except for the earlier ones that are completely round..
What do you guys think, block or pre block?

Looks like a block. It has the switch mounted higher on the central panel, and the option of a removable quench tray. Plus the gray smooth textured paint, and the smaller rests.

Good Luck!
 

Rileysan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,298
Location
Milwaukie, Oregon

Ask and you shall receive!

I found this "pre-block" grinder at a local thrift store that I frequent. He usually only has a small assortment of hand tools, so you can imagine my surprise when I saw this.

The first thing I noticed is that is has a newer grounded plug. The cable has been updated to a 6' 14/3 cord, which saves me the trouble. I asked the shop owner if I could plug it in and give it a whirl so he pointed me to a receptacle in the corner. I grabbed the grinder and nearly dropped it because it's so heavy!

This thing hums along quietly and without any vibration. I need another grinder like I need ... another grinder (I already have 3 blocks - 1/3, 1/2, & 3/4 HP, a Blue-Point/Wissota 1/3 HP grinder, and a Montgomery Wards 1/3 HP grinder), but I couldn't resist with the price only being $28. Now I gotta figure out where to put it!

If anyone has a spare face shield they are willing to part with, I'm looking for one.

Brian
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3382.jpg
    IMG_3382.jpg
    143.5 KB · Views: 236
  • IMG_3381.jpg
    IMG_3381.jpg
    142.2 KB · Views: 246
  • IMG_3380.jpg
    IMG_3380.jpg
    143.9 KB · Views: 281
  • IMG_3379.jpg
    IMG_3379.jpg
    145.3 KB · Views: 268
Last edited:
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
Ask and you shall receive!

I found this "pre-block" grinder at a local thrift store that I frequent. He usually only has a small assortment of hand tools, so you can imagine my surprise when I saw this.

Nice grinder, and the same model that started this thread :beer:

Have you looked at the bottom plate? I'm curious if it was made of engine-turned sheet metal like mine was.
 
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
Nice thread, with some great grinders! :thumbup::thumbup:

I apologize for not posting my love for the pre-Blocks sooner. :eek:

I am shocked that you just came across this thread. I thought we were being shunned by those elitist block owners :dunno:

Li'l Brownie looks good. Do you have the rest of the parts (like the end covers or rests) or do we need to read her story for that?
 

torqueman2002

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
6,138
Location
SE Michigan
I am shocked that you just came across this thread. I thought we were being shunned by those elitist block owners :dunno:

Li'l Brownie looks good. Do you have the rest of the parts (like the end covers or rests) or do we need to read her story for that?
Thank you and I agree about vintage. How the heck did vintage come to include the clothes and tools I have owned since high school??!!?? :lol:

She came to me complete, except for the 2 wheel guard covers.

After a loooong search, I found 1 (RH, IIRC) cover; then months/years later I completed the search and found the other cover.

In the mean time, the metal framed eye shields were 'loaned' to her Big brother - a Maroon/White 3/4-HP m-397.19350.
P1000116.jpg


His story. --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103220

:D
 
Last edited:
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
Thank you and I agree about vintage. How the heck did vintage come to include the clothes and tools I have owned since high school??!!?? :lol:

She came to me complete, except for the 2 wheel guard covers.

After a loooong search, I found 1 (RH, IIRC) cover; then months/years later I completed the search and found the other cover.

In the mean time, the metal framed eye shields were 'loaned' to her Big brother - a Maroon/White 3/4-HP m-397.19350.
P1000116.jpg


His story. --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103220

:D

Hey, is that a Taiwanese Dayton grinder sitting in the background? I have a similar one like that, except mine is a 10". And definitely NOT "vintage"
 

torqueman2002

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
6,138
Location
SE Michigan
Hey, is that a Taiwanese Dayton grinder sitting in the background? I have a similar one like that, except mine is a 10". And definitely NOT "vintage"
Sharp eye, exmaxima1! They are a very good grinder, not a Block, but a good grinder all the same.

That was my first serious grinder.
P1000083.jpg


P1000085-1.jpg


I figured it was time for an upgrade from Little Red.
P1000077.jpg


At the time, I did not even know what a Block grinder was. :dunno:
 
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
I figured it was time for an upgrade from Little Red.
P1000077.jpg


At the time, I did not even know what a Block grinder was. :dunno:

Holy ****, small world, Little Red looks like my first "all-in-one" (not belt driven) grinder! Mine was metallic gray and had a clear plastic quench tray. I think my grandpa got it with S&H Green Stamps in the early 60's, and he gave it to me when I went to college. And what a POS that thing was.....and yet I see you managed a wire wheel with it!
 
Last edited:

torqueman2002

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
6,138
Location
SE Michigan
Holy ****, small world, Little Red looks like my first "all-in-one" (not belt driven) grinder! Mine was metallic gray and had a clear plastic quench tray. I think my grandpa got it with S&H Green Stamps in the early 60's, and he gave it to me when I went to college. And what a POS that thing was.....and yet I see you managed a wire wheel with it!
S&H Green Stamps! :lol: I remember those. I think I still have some Coleman camping gear I got with S&H stamps!

My dad gave my younger brother and I one of these little grinders for Christmas in the early 70's.

We still have them, and Blocks too! Not bad for the hobbyist, very light duty, they stall with the slightest pressure. I never lost a screw, nut, or bolt. If it did take it from my hand, it would drop it at my feet (like a well trained retriever :rocker:).

This model came with a flexible shaft, but I never found it all that useful.
 

FrankLee

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
3,547
Location
seMI, 48317
I found this one at an estate sale last weekend. It's in very rough shape. Despite plenty of missing, broken, rusted, pitted, and dirty parts, it still runs great.


It was marked $25, but snagged it for $8 on the second day of the sale.
 
Last edited:
OP
E

exmaxima1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
6,339
Location
Midwest
I found this one at an estate sale last weekend. It's in very rough shape. There are plenty of missing, broken, rusted, pitted, and dirty parts, but it still runs great.

I just parted out the same model grinder a few months ago. It was more complete than yours, but the guy had run it so long with bad bearings that he ruined the shafts. I salvaged the eyeshields for another grinder, and sold off the light and cast iron base---that light will look spectacular once you polish the brass socket and phenolic hood. At $8, you definitely did well! :beer:
 

FrankLee

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
3,547
Location
seMI, 48317
I started thinking about moving parts from my 1/3hp grinder to the rough 1/2hp, but that didn't last long. The 1/2hp will be a part-out too.

 
Last edited:

Farmall450

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
13,354
Location
Marengo, Illinois
I have a 1959 Pre-Block originally posted in the block thread (way back in 2015, page 290)! It got new bearings and new paint, and a new stand. Hopefully I can snag some pictures of it outside and in action this summer. Colors, as far as I recall, are Rustoleum Hammered Silver and Dark Blue.

Pictures don't do it justice...I'll get some new ones later; all fasteners got hit by a wire wheel as well as the tool rests. Guards were disassembled, cleaned, and replaced, with a bead of RTV being applied first and allowed to harden to replace the former "gasket". It also got a new cord.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294627
 

Attachments

  • Craftsman 14 HP Pre-Block 2.jpg
    Craftsman 14 HP Pre-Block 2.jpg
    145.8 KB · Views: 214
  • Craftsman 14 HP Pre-Block.jpg
    Craftsman 14 HP Pre-Block.jpg
    145.9 KB · Views: 207
  • Craftsman 14 HP Pre-Block 3.jpg
    Craftsman 14 HP Pre-Block 3.jpg
    144.7 KB · Views: 288
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom