"Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?

[Yingpin]

"Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?

Edit....it is a block...

 

[macgee]

Quick post. I found this 1/2 hp (115.7575) yesterday for $20 and it weighs a ton, similar weight to a kennedy 520 tool box full of tooling, I know because I bought that too at the same time. The lamp works, switched separately.

Shockingly spins better than any block grinder I've owned (9) in the past, so the bearings are still good. I think I have some spare brown wheel guards & eye shields stashed away from a 1/3 hp pre-block maybe they'll fit?
Might sell this or just keep the grinder itself for 8" bristle brush wheels and sell the base/water tray/tool rests; haven't used stone wheels for ages (thankfully). Hard to commit to these once I've acquired some Baldors but this does surprisingly purr as nice as my Baldor.

 

[jsokoly]

1957 1/2 horsepower gem on original stand. $80 from a nice guy who obviously takes care of his tools. Missing one eye shield but everything else is in great condition. I plan to paint it hammered gray. All cast iron and no cracks! Runs great. Smooth and quiet.

 

[exmaxima1]

1957 1/2 horsepower gem on original stand. $80 from a nice guy who obviously takes care of his tools. Missing one eye shield but everything else it in great condition. I plan to paint it hammered gray. All cast iron and no cracks! Runs great. Smooth and quiet.

That will be an awesome grinder when finished. Congrats on an excellent find!

 

[greenlizard]

I have a 1/3 hp and 1/4 hp pre-blocks. They are surprisingly heavy as well as smooth running. These certainly seem commercial quality and are night and day different from the common Chinese stuff. Mine are not leaving.

 

[Farmall450]

Quick post. I found this 1/2 hp (115.7575) yesterday for $20 and it weighs a ton, similar weight to a kennedy 520 tool box full of tooling, I know because I bought that too at the same time. The lamp works, switched separately.

Shockingly spins better than any block grinder I've owned (9) in the past, so the bearings are still good. I think I have some spare brown wheel guards & eye shields stashed away from a 1/3 hp pre-block maybe they'll fit?
Might sell this or just keep the grinder itself for 8" bristle brush wheels and sell the base/water tray/tool rests; haven't used stone wheels for ages (thankfully). Hard to commit to these once I've acquired some Baldors but this does surprisingly purr as nice as my Baldor.

You sir got a steal. You ****!

 

[macgee]

You sir got a steal. You ****!

Thanks but I think jsokoly did better with a complete one and orig pedestal.

 

[cajunfirehawk]

I am In Love with this "pre" block! (copied from my other post in the block thread)
On with the eye candy; when I spotted this in this condition I knew I had to have it, all original, used maybe 2-3 times in its entire existence??? Many pics ahead!!
























So am I to assume this was made in 11/1956?!?!?!?!?!?

This thing is a beast weighing in over 65lbs! This may be my new holy grail grinder!!!

 

[crackit]

I am In Love with this "pre" block! (copied from my other post in the block thread)
On with the eye candy; when I spotted this in this condition I knew I had to have it, all original, used maybe 2-3 times in its entire existence??? Many pics ahead!!

OMG! I recently bought a 1/4 HP pre-block from 1961, but those pics of yours leave me speechless. What a find!

 

[cajunfirehawk]

OMG! I recently bought a 1/4 HP pre-block from 1961, but those pics of yours leave me speechless. What a find!

Thank You, YES, I agree

 

[vertguy]

I've had many blocks pass through the garage, but this is my first pre-block. I am noticing many differences from a block including the CI covers and deluxe tool rest base (it weighs as ton) along with how it attaches to the base via screws from the bottom. Also noticed the amp rating as it is higher than my 3/4hp commercial block. Missing a few things but runs very smooth.

While I am fairly sure this one has been on the stand for some time, the colors seem odd as the pole looks to be a newer gray... yet the top stand mount is clearly gold. Hard to tell with the base due to the surface rust.

 

[macgee]

I've had many blocks pass through the garage, but this is my first pre-block. I am noticing many differences from a block including the CI covers and deluxe tool rest base (it weighs as ton) along with how it attaches to the base via screws from the bottom. Also noticed the amp rating as it is higher than my 3/4hp commercial block. Missing a few things but runs very smooth.

While I am fairly sure this one has been on the stand for some time, the colors seem odd as the pole looks to be a newer gray... yet the top stand mount is clearly gold. Hard to tell with the base due to the surface rust.

Thats a nice one. Shouldn't be too hard finding or making parts for it.

 

[exmaxima1]

I've had many blocks pass through the garage, but this is my first pre-block. I am noticing many differences from a block including the CI covers and deluxe tool rest base (it weighs as ton) along with how it attaches to the base via screws from the bottom. Also noticed the amp rating as it is higher than my 3/4hp commercial block. Missing a few things but runs very smooth.

While I am fairly sure this one has been on the stand for some time, the colors seem odd as the pole looks to be a newer gray... yet the top stand mount is clearly gold. Hard to tell with the base due to the surface rust.

I had one like that a few years ago that I scrapped when I discovered the bad bearings had ruined the shaft. I may have the tool rest you need---contact me if interested.

Nice grinder, the stand and lamp are easily worth what you paid.

 

[cajunfirehawk]

Vertguy, here is what it looked like when new...

 

[cash68]

Here's a 1961 model I picked up a few weeks ago:


It worked great but it was a bit scuzzy/rusty, was stored in a damp basement.

Nameplate detail:


Disassemble:



Leme Smash:


Time for an (electrolysis) bath!


After bath:


The factory filled this casting void with putty years ago, electrolysis did not hurt it one bit:


Rustoleum (can!) cured by baking at 225 for a few hours, stunk pretty bad:


Insulation was bad on the stator so I spliced in new wiring and terminals, with heatshrink. Should be good for another 60 years or so.


Cleaned everything and laid it out like a giant model kit:



Partially assembled:


Fin:


Word of note: Mine has no capacitor whatsoever. Literally the switch goes right to the motor. No signs of it ever being apart, nor did I see any evidence of a centrifugal switch or anything.

 

[Trey T]

I didn't realized people made a distinction between the two. The pre-block is cooler, particularly the 1/2hp version w/ the more proper tool rest.

 

[lafester]

I posted in the other thread but this one needs some love too.

I got these two almost new 1/3 hp this week. No factory light or quench tray on these but they work great. One of them came with the double stand and the other came with a single Paid $150 for the double and $120 for the single. It does slow down a bit with the wire wheel if you get down in it but still much more powerful then my old chinese grinder.

I'm looking at at a 1/2 hp with the heavy duty tool rests and quench tray, hopefully will have more to post on that soon. If I get that one it will eventually take over wire wheel duty (after rehab) and I will flip one of the 1/3 hp grinders.

I do have a question on the pedestal mounts. I have two with 4 mounting holes and one with 2 holes. The double stand came with one of each. The few I see on ebay all have two holes. I can understand the double stand coming with both but I would think the single pedestals would all have 4.

 

[exmaxima1]

I posted in the other thread but this one needs some love too.

I got these two almost new 1/3 hp this week. No factory light or quench tray on these but they work great. One of them came with the double stand and the other came with a single Paid $150 for the double and $120 for the single. It does slow down a bit with the wire wheel if you get down in it but still much more powerful then my old chinese grinder.

Just to keep this thread straight, neither of those 1/3hp grinders are "Pre-Block". They are not cast iron. They are generally termed Round Top Block grinders.

 

[lafester]

Just to keep this thread straight, neither of those 1/3hp grinders are "Pre-Block". They are not cast iron. They are generally termed Round Top Block grinders.

Unfortunately I did not get the cast iron model today... the search continues.

 

[vertguy]

I decided to just freshen this one up in lieu of a full restore and as always, Evaporust worked its magic and helped maintain some great character. While it was apart, I also replaced the bearings. This one is a keeper and will be a nice wire wheel option for smaller parts as my 3/4HP can be a bit too aggressive.

 

[cajunfirehawk]

I decided to just freshen this one up in lieu of a full restore and as always, Evaporust worked its magic and helped maintain some great character. While it was apart, I also replaced the bearings. This one is a keeper and will be a nice wire wheel option for smaller parts as my 3/4HP can be a bit too aggressive.

Excellent, well done!

 

[bubinga]

Vertguy, here is what it looked like when new...

Older Thread I know, But I was referred here, That grinder is really something else for about 60 years old!
Do you even use it?

EDIT;

Just to keep this thread straight, neither of those 1/3hp grinders are "Pre-Block". They are not cast iron. They are generally termed Round Top Block grinders.

So is That A "round top Block" made of Aluminum, or a Pre-block made of cast iron?
(referring to the NIB one "cajunfirehawk" found)

So basically, What I need to Know in my "travels" ,
Is flat or rounded, But made of Aluminum, Its a "Block"



Made of cast iron, and HEAVY, Its a Pre-Block.
It that what I can pretty well take from this discussion?

 

[exmaxima1]

Older Thread I know, But I was referred here, That grinder is really something else for about 60 years old!
Do you even use it?

EDIT;


So is That A "round top Block" made of Aluminum, or a Pre-block made of cast iron?
(referring to the NIB one "cajunfirehawk" found)

So basically, What I need to Know in my "travels" ,
Is flat or rounded, But made of Aluminum, Its a "Block"



Made of cast iron, and HEAVY, Its a Pre-Block.
It that what I can pretty well take from this discussion?

That's pretty much the criteria I use. The housings are cast iron on Pre-Blocks, AND the guts (stator and rotor) are much more massive as well. That's why they weigh roughly twice as much as the later Block versions.

 

[bubinga]

Vertguy, here is what it looked like when new...

I posted in the other thread but this one needs some love too.

I got these two almost new 1/3 hp this week. No factory light or quench tray on these but they work great. One of them came with the double stand and the other came with a single Paid $150 for the double and $120 for the single. It does slow down a bit with the wire wheel if you get down in it but still much more powerful then my old chinese grinder.

I'm looking at at a 1/2 hp with the heavy duty tool rests and quench tray, hopefully will have more to post on that soon. If I get that one it will eventually take over wire wheel duty (after rehab) and I will flip one of the 1/3 hp grinders.

I do have a question on the pedestal mounts. I have two with 4 mounting holes and one with 2 holes. The double stand came with one of each. The few I see on ebay all have two holes. I can understand the double stand coming with both but I would think the single pedestals would all have 4.

That's pretty much the criteria I use. The housings are cast iron on Pre-Blocks, AND the guts (stator and rotor) are much more massive as well. That's why they weigh roughly twice as much as the later Block versions.

OK, Learning Here.
Weather I find a pre Block, Or "Need" another Grinder, is another story.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: I thought I was subscribed to this thread and found out i'm not which is surprising cause I love my PRE BLOCK GRINDER and still looking for a spot to set it up.

I saw on one post that there were lights on some (or all?) of these pre block grinders in the wheel wells? or was that a member's modification?

here's my pre block 3/48 that is a heavy stout old grinder that came on a cool stand.

since motors were maybe the most expensive part in those days here's one that a handy guy made into his go to grinder which might not qualify for this thread.

 

[exmaxima1]

ALL: I thought I was subscribed to this thread and found out i'm not which is surprising cause I love my PRE BLOCK GRINDER and still looking for a spot to set it up.

I saw on one post that there were lights on some (or all?) of these pre block grinders in the wheel wells? or was that a member's modification?

here's my pre block 3/48 that is a heavy stout old grinder that came on a cool stand.

since motors were maybe the most expensive part in those days here's one that a handy guy made into his go to grinder which might not qualify for this thread.

That old grinder almost qualifies as PRE-Pre-Block, with its massive construction and giant guards. Are those 8-inch wheels? I've never seen one like that in person.

The old CM motor with arbor adapters is not really anything in my book. Anytime I see those it makes my sphincter pucker. Besides the safety issues, I question the usefulness of a motor that gets in the way of virtually any grinding or cleaning task. Makes way more sense to use the motor along with a belt driven arbor.

 

[drivesitfar]

Ex: the wheels might be 8, but I've had it on a shelf for a while and haven't really paid attention to it. it is a stout one that is for certain. do you want more pictures of anything other than me figuring out how big the wheels are?

i agree that 3/4 HP motor is best used on another tool like a table saw or something where that power could be more useful.

it's hard to see the date on my PRE PRE BLOCK, but i thought i saw 1948. can you see it?

 

[exmaxima1]

it's hard to see the date on my PRE PRE BLOCK, but i thought i saw 1948. can you see it?

I see "48" on the plate, but I don't know how they were dated back then. That certainly seems the correct era. It will make a great tool once restored, good luck.

 

[garymtx]

I am In Love with this "pre" block! (copied from my other post in the block thread)
On with the eye candy; when I spotted this in this condition I knew I had to have it, all original, used maybe 2-3 times in its entire existence??? Many pics ahead!!
























So am I to assume this was made in 11/1956?!?!?!?!?!?

This thing is a beast weighing in over 65lbs! This may be my new holy grail grinder!!!

HOLY ****!!! Whatever you paid, it was worth it....I'd be putting it in a glass case just to look at it...hahaha

 

[cajunfirehawk]

HOLY ****!!! Whatever you paid, it was worth it....I'd be putting it in a glass case just to look at it...hahaha

It stays boxed up with the rest of my mint boxed grinders...

 

[RiseAbove]

Just picked this up this morning.

The label says 1/2HP Model: 115 7575 255...underneath that it says Type CR 22 E and below that in small read 5219015.

It seems to be in good shape, no cracks etc, and it seems to be complete with the lamp and eye shields, tray etc. The stand doesn't seem to be original, though i could be wrong? Does the lamp and other parts look original? Looks like its missing something from the left tool rest. I like the collection bag!

Does anyone know the year?

I'm going to clean it up the best i can and put it into use with my '69 block grinder. HUGE difference in weight between this and my '69 block...am i right in thinking this is cast iron and the '69 block is cast aluminium?

 

[drivesitfar]

Cajun: since you have so many NEW IN THE BOX VINTAGE GRINDERS have you ever thought of just tearing into them like it's CHRISTMAS and setting a few up with different wheels to use even though you probably have twice that many old grinders in decent shape? or is that your Savings account hedging against inflation?

that old gold pre-block is only 10 months younger than me and it looks a whole lot better.

Rise: nice find

 

[vertguy]

Just picked this up this morning.

The label says 1/2HP Model: 115 7575 255...underneath that it says Type CR 22 E and below that in small read 5219015.


Does anyone know the year?

I believe the 2 55 is month/year... Feb '55.

 

[lafester]

Easy way to spot is the switch being on the bottom, also the band is a bit wider.

Older Thread I know, But I was referred here, That grinder is really something else for about 60 years old!
Do you even use it?

EDIT;


So is That A "round top Block" made of Aluminum, or a Pre-block made of cast iron?
(referring to the NIB one "cajunfirehawk" found)

So basically, What I need to Know in my "travels" ,
Is flat or rounded, But made of Aluminum, Its a "Block"



Made of cast iron, and HEAVY, Its a Pre-Block.
It that what I can pretty well take from this discussion?

 

[lafester]

It stays boxed up with the rest of my mint boxed grinders...

Have you ever posted a list of your collection? Mainly curious which models you have new in box.

 

[FrankLee]

Just picked this up this morning.

The label says 1/2HP Model: 115 7575 255...underneath that it says Type CR 22 E and below that in small read 5219015.

It seems to be in good shape, no cracks etc, and it seems to be complete with the lamp and eye shields, tray etc. The stand doesn't seem to be original, though i could be wrong? Does the lamp and other parts look original? Looks like its missing something from the left tool rest. I like the collection bag!

Does anyone know the year?

I'm going to clean it up the best i can and put it into use with my '69 block grinder. HUGE difference in weight between this and my '69 block...am i right in thinking this is cast iron and the '69 block is cast aluminium?

You're correct about the stand not being original, but it's very cool and looks very heavy duty. The lamp looks correct except the shade. I don't believe the shades were aluminum or had vent holes.

Here's the '55 catalog page with your grinder:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/2699.pdf#page=50

Based on my limited research:

• 1954-1963 round tops were cast iron
• 1964-1975 round tops were cast aluminum
• 1974-1983 square tops were cast aluminum

 

[RiseAbove]

Rise: nice find

I believe the 2 55 is month/year... Feb '55.

You're correct about the stand not being original, but it's very cool and looks very heavy duty. The lamp looks correct except the shade. I don't believe the shades were aluminum or had vent holes.

Here's the '55 catalog page with your grinder:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/2699.pdf#page=50

Based on my limited research:

• 1954-1963 round tops were cast iron
• 1964-1975 round tops were cast aluminum
• 1974-1983 square tops were cast aluminum

I'm actually kind of surprised by the stand. It's very solid, with good height adjustment and i like the base section. I may fill in those gaps with polished up wood.

I noticed that when i turn the shaft/wheels in the direction that they go by hand, i hear a kind of inconsistant tinging/tapping noise, almost like a wire hitting something or something being loose. When i power it up it completley goes away, and makes no noise and runs perfectly. But when i switch it off, around 30 seconds into slowing down, the noise comes back. Do you think it could be the clutch? I have no idea on how the clutch system works on these, i've only really taken them apart for cleaning.

Thanks for the cataolgue...amazing how much they offered back then! That milling machine and 7" metal shaper

I noticed the catalogue states the 1/2HP as being 'Built for industirial use...ideal for heavy work in machine shops and factories'. Was this era before they had the badged 'Commercial' range?

 

[FrankLee]

...

I noticed that when i turn the shaft/wheels in the direction that they go by hand, i hear a kind of inconsistant tinging/tapping noise, almost like a wire hitting something or something being loose. When i power it up it completley goes away, and makes no noise and runs perfectly. But when i switch it off, around 30 seconds into slowing down, the noise comes back. Do you think it could be the clutch? I have no idea on how the clutch system works on these, i've only really taken them apart for cleaning.

...

The tinging/tapping noise you're hearing is likely the internal start-up switch contacting the centrifugal assembly (clutch?). This is normal.

The start-up switch circuit is closed in power-off mode to include the energized capacitor in the circuit. When the motor is switched on, the capacitor helps the motor get started. When the motor reaches a certain rpm, the weights in the centrifugal switch open the circuit and removes the capacitor from the circuit.

When the motor is switched off and the rpm slows to a certain rpm, the extension springs in the centrifugal assembly pull the weights and the capacitor circuit is closed again. You usually can hear a click when that occurs.

 

[RiseAbove]

The tinging/tapping noise you're hearing is likely the internal start-up switch contacting the centrifugal assembly (clutch?). This is normal.

The start-up switch circuit is closed in power-off mode to include the energized capacitor in the circuit. When the motor is switched on, the capacitor helps the motor get started. When the motor reaches a certain rpm, the weights in the centrifugal switch open the circuit and removes the capacitor from the circuit.

When the motor is switched off and the rpm slows to a certain rpm, the extension springs in the centrifugal assembly pull the weights and the capacitor circuit is closed again. You usually can hear a click when that occurs.

Is it normal to hear the tinging/tapping pretty much constently at low RPM, or should it just be single click? Does it also do it when turned by hand? My '69 block doesn't do it, so it got me thinking. But i'm guessing the 15 year difference between the 2 machines saw them change the design pf the internal start-up switch/centrifugal assembly? Also, are both sides of the shaft opposite thread, or just the left side? The left side nut came off easily, but the right side nut doesn't want to budge, despite soaking it in Liquid Wrench.

 

[FrankLee]

Is it normal to hear the tinging/tapping pretty much constently at low RPM, or should it just be single click? Does it also do it when turned by hand? My '69 block doesn't do it, so it got me thinking. But i'm guessing the 15 year difference between the 2 machines saw them change the design pf the internal start-up switch/centrifugal assembly? Also, are both sides of the shaft opposite thread, or just the left side? The left side nut came off easily, but the right side nut doesn't want to budge, despite soaking it in Liquid Wrench.

Yes, when turned by hand, you may hear a light scraping sound. The click is only heard near the end of wind-down after switching off the motor.

I'm not sure when the centrifugal switch was replaced by a relay.

The left side has LH threads, the right side has RH threads. You may need to use a pair of jam nuts to help in removing a stubborn nut.
Reinstall the left side wheel and nut and use it to loosen the right side. Then install two RH thread jam nuts on the right side to remove the left nut. Then loosen and remove the jam nuts. If you don't have a spare on hand, you may need to buy one nut, but RH nuts are more common and less expensive.