Air Impacts are DEAD

dnschmidt · Feb 8, 2017

Well the boys at ToolUp delivered my Milwaukee 2861-20 FUEL mid torque impact wrench today and all I can say is as of today, for the most part, air impact wrenches are dead. This thing is more powerful than an I-R 231 having six hundred ft-lb of removal torque and is just about the same size and weight as the 231. The bigger Milwaukee FUEL impact is just too damn heavy even though it's somewhat more powerful. This baby has more than enough power for 98% of what you use a 1/2" impact for and has the size and weight of an air impact. THE END IS NEAR for conventional air impacts. My Nitrocat 1250 isn't going up for sale but it might only be brought out once a month from here on in. This tool is a game changer.

Dan_s_young · Feb 8, 2017

Nice! I can't wait for it to be released in Canada! I also have the high torque model and agree it's a beast but too heavy for anything more than occasional use.

Kenskip1 · Feb 8, 2017

Now you tell me! Here after I am spending $$$ on a new air compressor along with regulator, filter, and a line kit. Should I drop my stock in Ingersol Rand? LOL. I'm glad that you are happy with it. Just as long as the battery holds out.

Superbec · Feb 8, 2017

Kenskip1 said:
LOL. I'm glad that you are happy with it. Just as long as the battery holds out.

LOL... so you never used a cordless impact , have you ????

While the air impacts are at the very top of the tech the cordless just started to show their teeth.

Now we have brushless and LI batteries, and the performance is really amazing both in battery life as in power output the next tech will blow any air powered tool away. Sure you'll still need a compressor.

Dan_s_young · Feb 8, 2017

Using the M18 impact daily (technician), I find it has to be charged maybe every two weeks? Battery life isn't an issue at all. Especially nice that the tools power level remains the same until the battery is dead.

torqueman2002 · Feb 8, 2017

dnschmidt said:
Well the boys at ToolUp delivered my Milwaukee 2861-20 FUEL mid torque impact wrench today and all I can say is as of today, for the most part, air impact wrenches are dead. This thing is more powerful than an I-R 231 having six hundred ft-lb of removal torque and is just about the same size and weight as the 231. The bigger Milwaukee FUEL impact is just too damn heavy even though it's somewhat more powerful. This baby has more than enough power for 98% of what you use a 1/2" impact for and has the size and weight of an air impact. THE END IS NEAR for conventional air impacts. My Nitrocat 1250 isn't going up for sale but it might only be brought out once a month from here on in. This tool is a game changer.

Where did you buy it?

My goto Amazon, doesn't list it; but, it is for sale at Acme Tools (http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/milwaukee-2861-20?cm_mmc=Affiliate-_-SaS-_-290560-_-619300) for $189 + S&H. **** pre-order only.

I agree about the current battery operated impact tools making air impacts a lot less necessary.

I still use my 2-stage 80 gallon, but mostly for media blasting and blowing off ****.

tonyciambrone · Feb 8, 2017

I can feel my wallet lightening already..

I was holding out on buying a more powerful Milwaukee impact (have the m12 3/8 fuel) because the 2754 is too weak, and as Dennis mentioned the big boy is too bulky. looks like I'm getting a mid torque.

alskdjfhg · Feb 8, 2017

I'm planning to get a 1/2" Milwaukee cordless impact, for the reason that its quieter and air hose free. But I think for you to say that air is dead is a bit of a stretch. I can think of a LOT of envrioments and applications where old school air would be preferred.

Along with that cordless I'll be getting a 1/2, 3/4" and 1" drive air impaxts as I work on old farm machinery and heavy equipment.

Just my $.02

gdocktor3 · Feb 8, 2017

Kenskip1 said:
Now you tell me! Here after I am spending $$$ on a new air compressor along with regulator, filter, and a line kit. Should I drop my stock in Ingersol Rand? LOL. I'm glad that you are happy with it. Just as long as the battery holds out.

Well, you only made about 10 different threads in regards to air tools and air compressors... :dunno:

shockwave · Feb 8, 2017

Cordless is. Convient but still air is king imo atleast for impacts go my 3/8 ir2115ti has more balls than my Milwaukee or snap on both 18v especially for exhaust work and 1/2 impact is my go to while dealing with suspension work

KMdef9 · Feb 8, 2017

Great to hear you've found something that works for you. It might be the death of small air tools, 1/4 and maybe some 3/8, but not 1/2 and up for most. Especially not for professionals whose use these tools all day.

alskdjfhg said:
But I think for you to say that air is dead is a bit of a stretch. I can think of a LOT of envrioments and applications where old school air would be preferred.

I completely agree. I own several brands of electric tools, Li, brushless, whatever, still no where near the performance of my pneumatic tools. Air tools don't over heat, are still stronger (numbers on a piece of paper aren't the same ones in the real world), stronger for their size, much easier to service.

For small tasks, these cordless tools are very handy. But any project that isn't just changing your tires, they're cumbersome and slow. Replacing air tools? They are far from it.

Layvon · Feb 8, 2017

Anyone found the ring anvil vs the pin detent? I can't stand pin detents for the home garage. If I was an employer providing the tool I could see the pin from a safety perspective but for me when you have two bolts one with a 12mm head and one with a 13mm head, I don't want to have to deal with that pin

KMdef9 · Feb 8, 2017

Layvon said:
Anyone found the ring anvil vs the pin detent? I can't stand pin detents for the home garage. If I was an employer providing the tool I could see the pin from a safety perspective but for me when you have two bolts one with a 12mm head and one with a 13mm head, I don't want to have to deal with that pin

I like the pin. Especially with extensions, universals/swivels. Keeps them on for safety and they don't come off when maneuvering into or out of position.

If I'm doing a task that requires alot of switching, I'll use a quick connect.

md21722 · Feb 8, 2017

Can you work a stuck bolt until its smoking with a cordless? How many batteries does that take?

Pin is good at odd angles or repetitive work. Hog ring for everything else. I have both.

dnschmidt · Feb 8, 2017

I actually like pin, and this new tool is available with pin, but I bought hog ring. Personally, I don't mind using a pocket screwdriver to switch out a socket nearly as much as I hate it when one flies off or falls off. The pin is certainly much better if you're using universals and extensions. I really don't think this is a question with only one answer. It depends.

And yes you can work a bolt until it smokes and only use 1/4 of the battery while doing it. Li-Ion batteries and impacts were made for each other. A battery powered leaf blower will blow through batteries but an impact will go for weeks on one charge.

Buckgnarly · Feb 8, 2017

You compared it to a 231?.....how about something a little (or lot) more recent, like 2235?

Madrona · Feb 8, 2017

The problem with cordless tools is the PRICE of replacement batteries. I gave away my old Milwaukee hammer drill when I went to price out new batteries, and bought a whole new package of two drills. They "got" me, just as they intended. Once the batteries are at the end of their service life, it makes little sense to replace them as it's cost prohibitive. For just a little more money, you can buy a newer, better tool. It's the new business model in this throwaway society.

Personally, I think air tools are the much better deal. There are mechanics using the same impacts that they were 30 years ago. Which one holds better long term value is obvious.

md21722 · Feb 8, 2017

Buckgnarly said:
You compared it to a 231?.....how about something a little (or lot) more recent, like 2235?

The point is that its a newer mid sized impact, similar to the 231 or the stubby impacts available today.

Comparing a 2235 to the bigger Milwaukee is a separate comparison.

byoungblood · Feb 8, 2017

Madrona said:
The problem with cordless tools is the PRICE of replacement batteries. I gave away my old Milwaukee hammer drill when I went to price out new batteries, and bought a whole new package of two drills. They "got" me, just as they intended. Once the batteries are at the end of their service life, it makes little sense to replace them as it's cost prohibitive. For just a little more money, you can buy a newer, better tool. It's the new business model in this throwaway society.

Personally, I think air tools are the much better deal. There are mechanics using the same impacts that they were 30 years ago. Which one holds better long term value is obvious.

Precisely. I only have spare batteries for my Milwaukee 18v tools because I caught a two pack of them on clearance after Christmas a couple of years ago for $45, and that's for the low capacity ones. But for my purposes, they work just fine. But to buy one off, they're as much as buying a new drill kit with battery and charger.

Problem two is that in the long run, nobody stays with their battery tech or connectors. I had a perfectly serviceable 12v Makita drill I basically gave away at a yard sale because I couldn't get decent batteries for it at a reasonable cost anymore because Makita changed their battery connector. Because there are so many common parts between them, you can often get parts for a 30 year old air tool and keep it going, when the cordless tool has long since been scrapped.

Cordless tools obviously have a place, but they're a long way off from completely replacing pneumatic tools.

bczygan · Feb 8, 2017

torqueman2002 said:
Where did you buy it?

My goto Amazon, doesn't list it; but, it is for sale at Acme Tools (http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/milwaukee-2861-20?cm_mmc=Affiliate-_-SaS-_-290560-_-619300) for $189 + S&H. **** pre-order only.

I agree about the current battery operated impact tools making air impacts a lot less necessary.

I still use my 2-stage 80 gallon, but mostly for media blasting and blowing off ****.

http://www.toolup.com/Milwaukee-2861-20-M18-FUEL-Mid-Torque-1-2-Friction-Ring-Impact-Wrench-Bare-Tool

CafeTools · Feb 8, 2017

One good thing about 1/2 air impacts is they are bulletproof if you keep them oiled. The battery wont go dead obv.

kythri · Feb 8, 2017

Already Own:

Air Compressor and Accessories
Air Impacts

Don't Own:

Milwaukee Tools/Batteries

Don't Intend to Buy:

Milwaukee Tools/Batteries

Life Status of Air Impacts:

Alive and Well

DakotaMan · Feb 8, 2017

I like the idea of this product, but I'm a general homeowner type. It's easier for me to buy pneumatic tools (screwdriver, impact, etc) than items with batteries. I may use an impact once a month. The batteries will either be dead or not work or not be happy with only being used once a month. The pneumatics seems to work better for that situation in my experience.

kwschumm · Feb 8, 2017

Battery tools mean inevitable battery replacement. Batteries aren't cheap and I hate dealing with battery disposal. So it's air for me.

WhiskeyRanger · Feb 8, 2017

Madrona said:
The problem with cordless tools is the PRICE of replacement batteries. I gave away my old Milwaukee hammer drill when I went to price out new batteries, and bought a whole new package of two drills. They "got" me, just as they intended. Once the batteries are at the end of their service life, it makes little sense to replace them as it's cost prohibitive. For just a little more money, you can buy a newer, better tool. It's the new business model in this throwaway society.

Personally, I think air tools are the much better deal. There are mechanics using the same impacts that they were 30 years ago. Which one holds better long term value is obvious.

I will take a more useful tool that only lasts 25 years than a less useful one that lasts longer. My 12v DeWalt drill from the early 90s is still going strong and replacement batteries were only about $20 each. Value is relative. I need cordless tools, so batteries are a requirement for doing my job. My DeWalt cordless impact is superior to my air impacts in every useful measure. The fact that my kid will be able to sell a tool at a garage sale after I die isn't something that makes it more valuable to me.

jd_1138 · Feb 8, 2017

Kenskip1 said:
Now you tell me! Here after I am spending $$$ on a new air compressor along with regulator, filter, and a line kit. Should I drop my stock in Ingersol Rand? LOL. I'm glad that you are happy with it. Just as long as the battery holds out.

Batteries are just a consumable. People can save money on not having to buy an air compressor, powering it, maintaining it, etc.. They now just have to buy a new battery once a year or whatever.

You can still use the compressor to power a sandblaster, dust out the shop, air up tires.

6PTsocket · Feb 8, 2017

Kenskip1 said:
Now you tell me! Here after I am spending $$$ on a new air compressor along with regulator, filter, and a line kit. Should I drop my stock in Ingersol Rand? LOL. I'm glad that you are happy with it. Just as long as the battery holds out.

I hope he is not waiting for a battery operated DA sander or blast cabinet. LOL. I think there is still a place for compressed air. Any thing that uses continuous air is hard to do with a battery. A power cord,maybe, in some cases.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

dnschmidt · Feb 8, 2017

I use air for one primary purpose. Powering my SATA spray guns. Now if Milwaukee can come out with an M18 spray gun that's able to apply paint as well as my SATA's then maybe it's time to dump my Quincy. Otherwise, it's not going to happen. There are certain tools that lend themselves to battery power and impact wrenches are one of them. There are certain tools that lend themselves to a power cord. A die grinder is one of those and there are certain tools that air kicks ****. Paint guns and air hammers are two obvious examples. My comment was specific to impact wrenches.

BDT/NWMN · Feb 8, 2017

Is it time to toss my 30 year old 1/2" drive air impact wrenches that are still in everyday service :lol:

Knock on wood, they have never had a battery take a dump.

Ign · Feb 8, 2017

torqueman2002 said:
Where did you buy it?

My goto Amazon, doesn't list it; but, it is for sale at Acme Tools (http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/milwaukee-2861-20?cm_mmc=Affiliate-_-SaS-_-290560-_-619300) for $189 + S&H. **** pre-order only.

I agree about the current battery operated impact tools making air impacts a lot less necessary.

I still use my 2-stage 80 gallon, but mostly for media blasting and blowing off ****.

Try reading the first 5 words of what you quoted from the OP in your own reply.

As for the thread topic, I've been saying for a long time that air impacts are in trouble. They'll always have their place but they already have and will continue to lose market share to cordless.

Why does anyone think IR is aggressively marketing cordless automotive-centric tools? Same reason cable companies figured out they'd have to get into the satellite market or AT&T knew they'd have to get into cellular or Kodak knew they'd have to start making digital cameras.

TK-421 · Feb 8, 2017

alskdjfhg said:
But I think for you to say that air is dead is a bit of a stretch. I can think of a LOT of envrioments and applications where old school air would be preferred.

He's not saying air is dead for everybody, only specifically for himself.

Chief919 · Feb 8, 2017

byoungblood said:
Precisely. I only have spare batteries for my Milwaukee 18v tools because I caught a two pack of them on clearance after Christmas a couple of years ago for $45, and that's for the low capacity ones. But for my purposes, they work just fine. But to buy one off, they're as much as buying a new drill kit with battery and charger.

Problem two is that in the long run, nobody stays with their battery tech or connectors. I had a perfectly serviceable 12v Makita drill I basically gave away at a yard sale because I couldn't get decent batteries for it at a reasonable cost anymore because Makita changed their battery connector. Because there are so many common parts between them, you can often get parts for a 30 year old air tool and keep it going, when the cordless tool has long since been scrapped.

Cordless tools obviously have a place, but they're a long way off from completely replacing pneumatic tools.

I have yet to find a battery pack for a cordless tool that I couldn't rebuild with easily found cells from Amazon, a soldering gun and an hour or so. Generally costs under $20.

pstemari · Feb 8, 2017

Speaking of Amazon, they seemed to have gotten in a tiff w Milwaukee and stopped carrying their tools. Nothing but 3rd party offers for Milwaukee on Amazon these days.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

bmwpowere36m3 · Feb 8, 2017

jd_1138 said:
Batteries are just a consumable. People can save money on not having to buy an air compressor, powering it, maintaining it, etc.. They now just have to buy a new battery once a year or whatever.

You can still use the compressor to power a sandblaster, dust out the shop, air up tires.

+1

If you buy the "cheap" drill/driver kits sure... but once you start buying higher-end models or have a big collection then the cost of the batteries is more reasonable.

Besides, consider the cost of compressor and $ to run it... probably the least efficient way to power tools. Regardless cordless tools are catching up, but their still heavier and bulkier. Something they'll always lag behind since they must contain a power source.

jshillin · Feb 8, 2017

I've only used my Snap-on air impact once since I bought my Milkwaukee impacts. I had a tight spot that I needed to get into and the battery wouldn't fit. Other than that, I've only used my battery impacts. If one of them broke, I'd buy a new one tomorrow!

KM223 · Feb 8, 2017

I have every size SO Li battery powered impact. They have their place. Air impacts are nowhere near dead. Not even close!

Kenskip1 · Feb 8, 2017

For whats it's worth, I happen to own three cordless impacts.One is a M12 and the other is a Craftsman 1/2 C3 impact wrench along with a Dewalt 18volt 3/8 cordless impact. The problem that I have is the weight with the cordless. Being right handed and with about 65% of muscle control lost, I have a difficult time with the cordless tools.I had a Dewalt 159. Great tool except that it was extremely difficult to operate with my limited physical abilities.Simply, air operated tools are more manageable for me.Extensive tendon and ligament damage.Ken

Skin · Feb 8, 2017

Air wont give you tinnitus (quiet models anyway) or arm strain and fits in many more places with far more power for the form factor.

600 foot pounds is break-away or nut busting torque and is a nigh worthless number. I like my cordless but the thread title is ridiculous.

99LeCouch · Feb 8, 2017

For my very much homeowner use, air makes more sense. The batteries would go from lack of use.

Ed_EOD · Feb 8, 2017

I'd like to see one of these 25+ year old impacts you guys are keeping around keep up with the new brushless electric impacts. The miliwaukee heavy duty 18v does 700-1100 ftlbs. The 1/2" Snap-on of 25 years ago was HALF that, and that was new. Not to mention air tools don't have much improvement left, while electrics have been getting smaller, more powerful, longer lasting, and cheaper every year.

Face it guys, air hand tools are going the way of the VCR, carburetor, incandescent bulbs, etc. The folks that grew up with them are going to hold out, because it's all they know (or stubbornness) but eventually they'll be used for nostalgia, novelty, or very specific reasons. Not for general everyday use.

Air will always be needed in a shop, but it'll only be used when AIR is needed, and not to covert it to another energy; I.e., you'll always need to sandblast, paint, blow, weld, pressurize, etc. but if you want to turn, saw, grind, or drill something, that'll use electricity.

Air Impacts are DEAD

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