Air Impacts are DEAD

[pi_guy]

What about die grinders and air belt sanders never seen a battery operated die grinder that worked.
Electric tools in the hot pits has issues....

 

[bsaint]

Air tools are terribly inefficient. Most processes that use compress air are this way. There was a guy a while ago modding air tools and reclaiming the air going through air tools and try and increase the efficiency. I dont think it ever caught on.

If all your techs bought electric cordless tools and it was a large dealership and didnt use air tools as much, you can run a smaller compressor (less operating cost) and less money on maintenance of compressor, air lines, air hoses, etc etc.

 

[Mr_B]

^ I don't think you will find expense of maintaining air system and tools anything like the cost of battery tools in long term . One reason manufacture industry wouldn't use them is massive increase in cost of initial purchase and long term cost of using battery tool system .

 

[WhiffySpark]

^ I don't think you will find expense of maintaining air system and tools anything like the cost of battery tools in long term . One reason manufacture industry wouldn't use them is massive increase in cost of initial purchase and long term cost of using battery tool system .

How's that any different than a commercial air compressor? It still needs maintenance and eventually rebuilt/replaced. Your air tools are going to need to be rebuilt every year more or less depending on use.

$100 for a battery pack after 3 years isn't much different than a $150 rebuilt. After a few ears both are obsolete either way so

 

[WildwoodChuck]

What about die grinders and air belt sanders never seen a battery operated die grinder that worked.
Electric tools in the hot pits has issues....

Metabo, we have 2 die grinders and 2 narro belt sanders

 

[bsaint]

^ I don't think you will find expense of maintaining air system and tools anything like the cost of battery tools in long term . One reason manufacture industry wouldn't use them is massive increase in cost of initial purchase and long term cost of using battery tool system .

Who pays for the batteries? The employee. Who pays for the compressor? The employer. The employer saves money.

 

[Mr_B]

How's that any different than a commercial air compressor? It still needs maintenance and eventually rebuilt/replaced. Your air tools are going to need to be rebuilt every year more or less depending on use.

$100 for a battery pack after 3 years isn't much different than a $150 rebuilt. After a few ears both are obsolete either way so

Never seen airtools rebuilt yearly even in production environment, air tools themselves are cheap and low maintenance and durable to careless handling. Compressor of some nature going be needed even if using mainly battery tools so any saving is negligible. Have a look at parts costs for brushless motor tools along with real likely battery life span in constant production environment and it not great plus batteries are far from environmentally friendly product in manufacturing or recycling .

 

[Mr_B]

Who pays for the batteries? The employee. Who pays for the compressor? The employer. The employer saves money.

In the manufacture industry the employee don't turn up supplying his own production bay tools. Think a few technicians will think again on unneeded battery too use for shop work when tool repairs/replacement and battery bills become more evident.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Never seen airtools rebuilt yearly even in production environment, air tools themselves are cheap and low maintenance and durable to careless handling. Compressor of some nature going be needed even if using mainly battery tools so any saving is negligible. Have a look at parts costs for brushless motor tools along with real likely battery life span in constant production environment and it not great plus batteries are far from environmentally friendly product in manufacturing or recycling .

I paid something like $350 for a 2235. Rebuild twice in its working life span that's another 300. So we're at $600 for the tool. I can buy a m18 package every 5 years cheaper than that.

But I understand your point as well. Most of the people on here think automotive technician not a factory environment

 

[Skin]

2235 was only $350 during its initial introduction due to low volume. Price is about $100 less now. Likewise not sure what you're rebuilding in it to the tune of ~$100 per time but if its kept greased and oiled you shouldn't need more than the wear components included in the $50 kit.

Just saying.

 

[jerseykat1]

i am getting this and selling my Ingersoll rand w5152 cordless. from the specs the w5152 and the 2861 are almost identical in size and weight, but the Milwaukee 2861 has and i quote "up to 450 ft-lbs of Fastening Torque" with "up to 600 ft-lbs of Nut-Busting Torque"... Not sure what the hell nut busting torque is but i do know that 450 ft lbs is pretty good. So if it's at least 500 ft lbs of real reverse torque than it would be worth me selling the Ingersoll rand w5152 with 365 ft lbs of reverse torque that i got about a month ago.

 

[jerseykat1]

truth be told for me the expense of the batteries should one fail is worth the convenience of not having to deal with dragging air lines around and up and over customers fenders (fender covers or not its a PITA).. I don't bring out my air impact anymore unless my wrists tire of the beating that my Dewalt DCF899hb High torque cordless impact puts out when torqueing wheels down with a torque stick. Not a faster on the car that it cant break loose. But it's big and heavy. So i try to use the W5152 as often as possible but 365 ft lbs is not enough sometimes and i feel like it may not last long if i torque wheels down with it daily, whereas torquing wheels is nothing for the Dewalt.

Anyway let me stop ranting. Speed is king and i'm faster and more efficient with cordless tools. Now we just need a cordless air hammer!

 

[Clorox Bleach]

Why not have both? I have an extensive collection of both battery and pnumatic. Each has thier own place. Air ratchets are hands down better in tight areas, than battery ratchets. IR makes the only battery impact ratchet with enough torque to be useful. Problem is that IR ratchet is soooo freagin big and heavy, you could use it as a baseball bat!

 

[American Locomotive]

I paid something like $350 for a 2235. Rebuild twice in its working life span that's another 300. So we're at $600 for the tool. I can buy a m18 package every 5 years cheaper than that.

But I understand your point as well. Most of the people on here think automotive technician not a factory environment

I'm not sure what you did wrong, because the 2235 rebuild kit is $35.

 

[anndel]

I have both air and cordless battery tools. I use the battery impacts when it's a small job not worth firing up the compressor only to use a small bit air without the compressor firing up again to refill the tank, only then to empty the tank when I'm done.

 

[Clorox Bleach]

If you are a DIY guy and on a limited budget, cordless is where you should spend the most money. IMHO buying both is a waste of money if you are a weekend wrencher.


I have a monthly stipend for tools, so I have both. In most shops that pay by the book, the object is to be as efficient as possible. If the book pays 2 hrs for a starter, but you can do it half the time with air and battery tools, then you are making a decent houry wage.

I'm on the clock and have no incentives to be in a hurry, but still like be efficient with an assortment of tools. Some days I'm just not in the mood to hear an air ratchet squealing away, so I break out cordless and hand tools.

 

[Citation]

For me I don't see ever getting a larger electric impact. I'm a shade tree who rarely will work outside the garage. More importantly, I typically don't use my IR231 that often. Based on my cordless drill history, I would have already replaced my impact by now if it were battery operated.

I really do like the long life of air tools (it helps that I grew up using them as my father had lots). However, if I was working on the clock I can also really see why cordless stuff is great. My corded drill gets used maybe once a year and really only because it's my only hammer drill. The rest of the time my Nextec Cman is more than enough... and my Nextec impact driver is also a favorite of mine.

Anyway, for someone working out of their house and with a decent compressor, I mean even a 125 psi, 8 gallon, 4cfm, HF job, I would go with air impacts vs battery. Well I guess that does assume you, like me, also want the blog gun, air cut off wheel and perhaps a number of other tools.

 

[md21722]

Cordless ratchets didn't impress me in the slightest. I purchased them along with some Kuani impacting ratchets and sold the former pretty quick. There is no comparison.

Please tell me about your Kuani impacting ratchets! I have an Astro 1124 here, advertizes 50 ft-lb but only does 20-25 under testing @ 100 psi working pressure. I think the 1128 3/8" is the same except the Anvil.

Every Snap On ratchet I've used does within their stated torque +/- 5 psi, not half like these imports state. SP Air was the same, 20-25.

I was looking at a Matco 3/8" looks like a Kuani and advertises 80-85 ft-lbs so I figure its good for 42. The drawback is that its only 275 RPM..

At this point I figure the Matco Kuani will zip out power steering pumps, fans, and water pumps a lot better than the Astro/SP Air with their inflated numbers...

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I'll be impressed when they can pack impact hammer power into an 18v platform. But I do favor my cordless IR tools. I have Milwaukee for my drill driver & impact driver but all my automotive tools are IR

 

[Mr_B]

I paid something like $350 for a 2235. Rebuild twice in its working life span that's another 300. So we're at $600 for the tool. I can buy a m18 package every 5 years cheaper than that.

But I understand your point as well. Most of the people on here think automotive technician not a factory environment

No idea how you spent 300 which more than replacing tool on a 2235 for you 5year costing equation, we wouldn't spend 150 in 10yrs on 1 air tool service or repair, most industrial and assembly line hand air tools are like 50 to 200 dollar tools, basic service spares stocked for expected tool lifespan and tool normally replaced if it more than basic service parts. Most issues concerning reliability of air tool and compressor come down to line pressure shops use and no or poor tool oiling.
Using 150-160 line pressure (which common) is stupid, your power consumption of compressor can more than double and machine wear of both compressor and tool massively increases. About 115 is max pressure and allows for some line and fitting loss and keeps tool output strong.
Other thing is the first choice for replacing air tools based on costing would be corded electric as most power efficient and less expense during tool life over battery tools.
While battery tools are super useful as truly portable beyond that they don't offer anything that corded electric or air can't exceed .

At end of day use what you like/find most efficient for your work environment.
Be realistic on tool life costing too as battery tools in discussion work out expensive generally, common battery platform helps but current trend for brushless motor technology means repair is more costly on tool itself but likely get cheaper as technology becomes more the norm thus looses the selling hype value and production costs.
I Have battery impacts etc and find them massive help but I never see them becoming the norrm in industrial and production environment and can't see they going rule in the technician shop as modern compact/nano/stubby high power air tools and need for air anyway means it will be there for decades to come .

 

[94_C/1500]

Battery powered stuff isn't for me. Nothing beats air. No charging batteries and no electric motors going out. Battery stuff is good for construction for metal roofs and gutters. But in the shop you have access to air and electric, I can't see why you'd want battery powered stuff when a much more reliable source is feet away. And batteries don't like winter, my other tools can sit in the cold and work just the same a month later.

 

[WhiffySpark]

2235 was only $350 during its initial introduction due to low volume. Price is about $100 less now. Likewise not sure what you're rebuilding in it to the tune of ~$100 per time but if its kept greased and oiled you shouldn't need more than the wear components included in the $50 kit.

Just saying.

Flat rate repair.

I started having my main impacts rebuilt every two years as a habit. I use them constantly all day.

Although I would like to try it myself. Seems hard to find for a 2235

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I have a line of 18v Bosch tools, in fact I have 4 drills that are exactly alike. Due to the nature of my work it is easier than changing bits all the time.
I also have a variety of corded and pneumatic tools. Only tools I would like to get rid of are the cheap imported pieces of ****.
I borrowed out a hole saw with mandrel, the neighbor brought it back with the set pins bust off. Too much torque from the cordless impact. Why he would use an impact is hard to say. Probably just too handy. Also stripped out the cup saw too!
I'm going to plumb my new garage with all the air connection points possible. Likely will purchase a larger compressor also. The new build/framing of my new garage was completed with air.

So if any of you guys getting out of air, put them up for sale in the GJ classified.

 

[Skin]

Flat rate repair.

I started having my main impacts rebuilt every two years as a habit. I use them constantly all day.

Although I would like to try it myself. Seems hard to find for a 2235

http://airtoolsforless.com/impact_wrench_tune_up_kits.html

They sell real IR parts. A lot of sellers slap together generic kits for a bit less. After you do it once its a 20-30 minute job and that's taking your time.

 

[Missfire]

Full time tech and I've been in the middle of the air to li-on change in the industry. I believe it really started when snap on first released their ct line years ago, but even that line didnt blow your mind as far as power. As a tech im always looking for that extra few pounds or less vibration from tool manufacturers cause every bit helps. The only thing is these cordless impacts have only just begun (newer models ie: ir 5152/5132, milwaukee 2861 2767 2763) to really utilize good engineering and brushless technology. These two combined have changed the game for techs. Price barrier to entry is high but worth it. All tools have atleast 3-5 year warranty and ive abused a lot of stuff and have no worries regarding reliability. Also with the new technology in powersockets and torque increasing sockets, the use of my 2861 mid torque will remove many crank bolts. I was skeptical at first but once you try i do agree with the op's title.

 

[lbhsbz]

I agree that air impacts are about done. I had the 1st snap on cordless impact and it was mostly cumbersome...as big as the current day high torque 1/2" cordless stuff, but weak. The next one was the compact 14.4V 3/8" (about 10 years ago) gun and I used the **** outta that. It's so much more convenient not dealing with an air hose. Work gets done much faster.

As electric tech improves, they will get smaller and more powerful. It only gets better.

The only place air is still necessary is die grinders, sandblasting, and filling up tires. It's becoming obsolete in most other cases.

 

[musgofasta]

My air tools rarely come out any more, aside from inflating things!

I have a Ridgid 18v impact driver, as level one. Does 95% of my house and auto chores

I have a Ridgid 18v 1/2 impact, 325 lb torque as level two. Has done all of my suspension, brake, and big rusty bolt removal without sweating.

HF 1/2 Earthquake pneumatic impact as level three, very rarely needed now with the 1/2 Ridgid cordless

(Super DIY'er level, do not use tools professionally)

 

[Cummins_Tech]

I'd like to see a MW break loose a QSK50 headbolt. Much less the 95 others. Psh... Air is far from dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Battery powered stuff isn't for me. Nothing beats air. No charging batteries and no electric motors going out. Battery stuff is good for construction for metal roofs and gutters. But in the shop you have access to air and electric, I can't see why you'd want battery powered stuff when a much more reliable source is feet away. And batteries don't like winter, my other tools can sit in the cold and work just the same a month later.

Not to mention charging cold batteries severely reduces their lifespan. Now that I'm not an everyday impact gun user anymore, the above quote is even more valid.

I really like my 1/4" Makita impact and drill but it's still for small or short duration. I can pull out the Milwaukee Hole Shooter and run the hole saw until I can't hold it up anymore. I'd need 6 batteries on rotation for a cordless. And like everything else, once the manufacturers have sold you all the tools they can, change the battery design so you start over.

Air is air, I still use the impacts I bought 25 years ago and all they've needed is a little oil over the years to keep them good as new. For the all day every day 1/2", always just replaced it every few years and still cheaper than batteries.

But, as someone else said... If you feel you want to sell off all your air tools, list 'em here first... cheap.

 

[JohnDeere1]

I'll keep using my 2 MG725 impacts from Snap on 1150 foot pounds without the muffler.

 

[gerryw]

Not going to argue with a pro tech, but for a weekend warrior nothing beats the sound of a air impact!!
Still trying to beat Williams F1 tire [email protected] seconds (4tires)
Just gotta shave off another 29 minutes and im in the hunt

Gerry

 

[kythri]

Who pays for the batteries? The employee. Who pays for the compressor? The employer. The employer saves money.

I know this ^ particular post was made in February, but, out of curiosity, how many employers (i.e. shops/owners) are getting rid of air or not putting air in their shops?

I fail to see how the employer saves money unless they're doing one of the above.

 

[Yarpo]

I am a full time tech and I hate air tools.

The compressor needs plugged in and I'm on a mobile service truck, so getting power means throwing out 40-50 feet of extension cord. Then the hose gets in the way. I roll over it, it doesn't bend quite right, yadda yadda.

They make Battery impacts that do north of 1000 ft pounds of breakaway torque, a mid torque with 600 and little compacts with 225(?), I almost never pick up an air impact unless my boss is around, hes still old fashioned

I haven't used Milwaukee's battery powered ratchets yet because I've been slacking but if they're half as good as people say they are, then I'm sold. Already with my air ratchets I have to break away large fasteners by hand before letting the ratchets do their thing, so why not grab a cordless one if that's the case? Or hell, two cordless ratchets!

I've never had a problem with batteries being in or out of rotation. They charge so fast and they make so many sizes (1.5AH -> 9AH?) that there's always a few charged and around. I've actually never ran out of battery when using dewalt/milwaukee, but I did onetime burn up 5 Ridgid batteries in like 20 minutes on their sawzall, we promptly threw them out after that.

 

[Mr_B]

^ because the stubby air versions are half the size, half the price, hit harder and have longer/cheaper service life, lot of air tools don't have battery versions ...
Without air job times in my shop would increase drastically ...
sure if mobile battery better option but anywhere got airlines then air tools a must unless really got valid scenario of airline being awkward .

 

[t4runner]

I have the same IR 1/2 impact gun not to mention air ratchet, air drill, air die grinder for 30 years will I get that much longevity out of my Milwaukee cordless tools?

 

[Yarpo]

^ because the stubby air versions are half the size, half the price, hit harder and have longer/cheaper service life, lot of air tools don't have battery versions ...
Without air job times in my shop would increase drastically ...
sure if mobile battery better option but anywhere got airlines then air tools a must unless really got valid scenario of airline being awkward .

The stubby IR 35 MAX Compact is 4.6 inches long and 7 inches tall, delivering 450 ft pound of reverse torque, for ~145 dollars.

The Milwaukee mid torque is 6.7 inches long and 10 inches tall, delivering 600 ft pounds of reverse torque, for ~170 dollars.

The benefit to the IR is its much lighter, but its probably actually taller than the Milwaukee once you add an air fitting and air hose to the tool.

I agree that for certain tools the need for air is there, but I don't think impacts and ratchets are one of them, at least not in my field. I do love air for my die grinder and cut off wheel, but those are hardly things I use more than once or twice throughout my week. I also don't have battery versions of those, who knows maybe I'd never need air again

I have the same IR 1/2 impact gun not to mention air ratchet, air drill, air die grinder for 30 years will I get that much longevity out of my Milwaukee cordless tools?

Probably not, but it might save you the headache of having to listen to an air compressor all day long while rolling over an air hose

 

[Mr_B]

I use the facom micro composite impact. it 4.3" long, 6.8" tall, 2.4" wide. 2.8lbs . 630ft/lb . $148
This tool & rivet type air hammer makes my jobs 100 times easier thus quicker and they in use all through the day .
No need listen to compressor, either use quiet run compressors or do what I did and put it in lean to on outside wall with bit of sound proofing .

 

[lugnut71]

If your out of the shop and have no air then yes, but I'll keep using air in the shop everyday, I cannot stand the noise of cordless impacts, u guys better be using ear protection.

 

[Yarpo]

I use the facom micro composite impact. it 4.3" long, 6.8" tall, 2.4" wide. 2.8lbs . 630ft/lb . $148
This tool & rivet type air hammer makes my jobs 100 times easier thus quicker and they in use all through the day .
No need listen to compressor, either use quiet run compressors or do what I did and put it in lean to on outside wall with bit of sound proofing .

Thats a pretty strong setup for a little gun! Much better than that IR I posted.

Our compressor at work is right in the work van/truck, even tho I'm outside of the van its obnoxious, I hate listening to it. Maybe when I switch careers and go into the automotive world I will need air more, but being mobile and always outta the shop, I currently love the cordless tools.

 

[smittyjones]

Lol, okay. Imma have to disagree with you on that, air impacts are still where it's at. I know battery tools are getting stronger, and I love my M12... But at similar size (though the air is a little larger), my M12 Fuel 3/8" impact is still about 200 ft lbs shy of what my 15 year old 3/8" air impact puts out.

To compare apples to your apple, my Cornwell Cat4150 can be bought all day, with a set of shallow and swivel sockets for less than the price of that M18 tool. It's about the same size, but has about 1200 ft lbs of breakaway torque... compared to 600 ft lbs of breakaway torque. And they're almost the exact same size.

OR, you could go with something like the Aircat 1055-TH, that costs only $100 or less, and puts out 500 ft lbs (or conversely, the similar Mac has 635 ft lbs) and is smaller than an M12 3/8" impact.