Critique my floor plans

Hey guys, its my first post. I've started the journey to building my "dream garage". I've been reading the forums here trying to learn as much as possible before I get too far along. Here are a couple notes I've made from other's suggestions.

-conduit on walls for electrical vs. in wall
-outlets every 5’
-welder outlets in diverse locations
-anchor points in floor
-lots of lighting
-conduit from house crawlspace to garage
-Wash sink between bathroom and stairwell
-8:12 roof pitch
-12' ceiling under loft area

Do you guys see any obvious problems with the attached images that I should address before the plan gets sent off to the county for approvals? Thanks in advance

Welcome!

Why the stairs with the 180 turn? Just start them right at the first floor man door. Dont know the exact clearnace above, but seems you can fit it in...Space between that door and the stair closet seems wasted.

Do like using the under stairs for 'stuff'- like dust collector, compressor, etc.

ard said:

Welcome!

Why the stairs with the 180 turn? Just start them right at the first floor man door. Dont know the exact clearnace above, but seems you can fit it in...Space between that door and the stair closet seems wasted.

Do like using the under stairs for 'stuff'- like dust collector, compressor, etc.

Click to expand...

That is the sink area

In looking at the left hand OH door I see the stairs impinging on the bay. Draw a line straight from the left of the door to the back wall and see what I'm saying. So now you have ~9' wide area behind a 10' door. That would not work for me. If you take that line you drew, In my opinion you should have at least 3' clear to the left of it to open doors and work around, you are at minus 1'. Consider moving the stairs to the back wall, go up 3-6 steps to a landing and turn left and up again till the stairs emerge about where they do now. The throne can now go under the stairs with the compressor under the landing.

Tell us the reasons your building a shop and all what you intend to doing it.

lg
no neat sig line

Welcome to GJ...

A second on the stairs......Better off going with straight stairs....space underneath becomes good storage.

And telling us what the overall purpose helps.

Remember, if there is a mistake that has been made, we made it.

Put a welder outlet at its home and share the hoist wire with one. Skip one in the floor, it's not something you want flooded and wet.

I agree on abandoning the outlet in the floor. You could always use EMT and surface-mount an outlet to the lift column down-low if necessary.

I also would rather have my staircase as a straight run rather than a 180 bend. However that's because I am very likely to be carrying things up and down. If its just a hangout place with no intended storage then maybe that's not the prime consideration.

I would also plan for HVAC right now, to include wiring it and also insulation plans. Having the open 2nd floor will mean a few challenges with temp gradients. I would integrate a couple of ceiling fans at bare minimum.

As far as your outlets, I think a quad outlet every 5' would be sufficient. Its not my original idea but I like the idea of running the left outlet in every box off "20amp circuit #1" and running the right outlet in every box off "20amp circuit #2". At bare minimum I'd put in the double gang box.

Thanks for the feedback. It really is appreciated.

@ard, the builder stated I'll need a landing of some type as the max code will allow is 12'. He first had the stairs with a 90 degree turn. I've attached an image. I didn't like that as it wouldn't flow well for someone to enter the entry door headed to the loft, especially if a car was parked in bay1. The area listed as a closet will be my "clean" area to demarc my cable, internet and surveillance. Under the landing will be compressor storage. I agree with you about the wasted space. I'm thinking of hanging yard tools in that space, like rakes, shovels, brooms and maybe even weed eater.

@larry_g, The stairs have been driving me crazy. I know exactly what you're saying and I've even add 2' overall garage width from my original design just to minimize that stairway impeding on bay1. I've decided until I hit the lottery I'll need to make compromises and here is one of them. If you look at bay 1 it's actually a 12' wide door. My thoughts are that if I ever need to pull my car trailer or anything wider than 10' in that bay I'll need to enter at a bit of an angle to borrow some room from bay 2. I agree with you, not ideal but the best my wallet can justify. I may get the builder to draw your back wall idea to see what it would look like.

As for what I'll be using it for, mostly just weekend tinkering. I plan to build a car or two here or there and I'll probably park my truck in one of the bays to free up more room in the attached garage. The loft is mainly for my kids when they get to the teenage years. I plan to fill it with whatever is cool at the time to encourage them and their friends to hang out where I know they're safe.

@ddawg16, see response to ard. I would love to have a single run but that would require I drop the ceiling in the first two bays by a little more than a foot.

@sberry, Thanks, I like that idea, I'm sending that to my builder now. I may reach back out to you for questions on how you've seen that done in the past. Did you mount a standard 220v receptacle box to the lift post or do they make special mounting hardware for lifts?

@matt_i, yeah I haven't really given the HVAC much thought. I'll be using that diverse breaker idea. I've never heard of that before but I like it. I can't imagine the cost would increase that much. Should just be the extra romex needed to run the distance around back perimeter.

How do the different functions of the building relate to the rest of the lot and other buildings and improvements?

Bill

bczygan said:

How do the different functions of the building relate to the rest of the lot and other buildings and improvements?

Bill

Click to expand...

Not sure I know exactly how to answer that. The garage will be placed just a couple feet beside my house. I'm on a 10 acre lot so I'm not really restricted by dirt space. I plan to use it as stated above..

"As for what I'll be using it for, mostly just weekend tinkering. I plan to build a car or two here or there and I'll probably park my truck in one of the bays to free up more room in the attached garage. The loft is mainly for my kids when they get to the teenage years. I plan to fill it with whatever is cool at the time to encourage them and their friends to hang out where I know they're safe."

jdorrough said:

Not sure I know exactly how to answer that. The garage will be placed just a couple feet beside my house. I'm on a 10 acre lot so I'm not really restricted by dirt space. I plan to use it as stated above..

"As for what I'll be using it for, mostly just weekend tinkering. I plan to build a car or two here or there and I'll probably park my truck in one of the bays to free up more room in the attached garage. The loft is mainly for my kids when they get to the teenage years. I plan to fill it with whatever is cool at the time to encourage them and their friends to hang out where I know they're safe."

Click to expand...

I'm asking what the orientation is vis a vis sun angles, what the views are from within the building and any work stations. How does it relate to existing vegetation and trees. And what are the existing grades and locations of utilities?

And how does it relate to the primary residence and surrounding ones in terms of style and siting?

And what are the uses and functions for the rest of the property and how do they relate to each other?

In other words, what is the entire plan?

What are the zoning rules for how close an accessory building can be to a residence? Here it is 10' minimum.

Bill

STAIRS: As you already know, the maximum vertical distance between landings is 12'. If room allows, you could make an intermediate landing anywhere within the 12' limit in a STRAIGHT RUN. I tried to calc out your horizontal distances from the bathroom wall (door wall) to the front wall of the loft but you're missing some measurements. What is the measurement from the outside rear wall (1st floor) forward to the front wall of the loft (2nd floor)?

What size are your floor joist, so I can calc floor to floor height? I assume 3/4" plywood?

If you build it as drawn, I'd change the bathroom door swing so you don't have to backup to enter. Inswing would be best if room to sink allows.

jdorrough said:

Not sure I know exactly how to answer that. The garage will be placed just a couple feet beside my house. I'm on a 10 acre lot so I'm not really restricted by dirt space. I plan to use it as stated above..

"As for what I'll be using it for, mostly just weekend tinkering. I plan to build a car or two here or there and I'll probably park my truck in one of the bays to free up more room in the attached garage. The loft is mainly for my kids when they get to the teenage years. I plan to fill it with whatever is cool at the time to encourage them and their friends to hang out where I know they're safe."

Click to expand...

I'm asking what the orientation is vis a vis sun angles, what the views are from within the building and any work stations. How does it relate to existing vegetation and trees. And what are the existing grades and locations of utilities?

And how does it relate to the primary residence and surrounding ones in terms of style and siting?

In other words, what is the entire plan?

What are the zoning rules for how close an accessory building can be to a residence? Here it is 10' minimum.

You've checked all the zoning rules, right?

Bill

What's the reasoning for three OH doors? Have you considered ditching the door on the left and making that area shop space?

If only two OH doors are an option, putting them on the short side (turn the building 90 degrees) and using the back of the bays as work space is worth consideration. Also, with 46' of depth, two moderate sized cars would fit end-to-end. Turned this way you could actually get four cars in there if you wanted.

Just thoughts...Might move the man door a bit to allow for switches and a shelf/space for "first grab" items like flashlights, keys, etc. Move the 12 footer to the middle...might have more room on something wide. Opening car doors into the stairs might be tight, can't tell really.

Like the room between the lift and the wall. Gotta be able to wheel the trash, welder, shop vac, tires or whatever.

Ditto on the floor outlet...lose it! Too scared I will drop something in or fill it with sweepings or even water and other trash.

Will the loft be open or accessible to the lift area? Just think it would be cool or maybe use the lift if you want to avoid wrestling a fridge up some windy stairs.

I mounted a 110 and a 220 outlet 4 feet up my central post of the lift AND a reel type extension cord higher up. Amazingly handy! Working on air in the same location, but still have hoses snaking everywhere and still get plenty done.

Surprised no one has said floor drain yet...your choice!

Bruce

jdorrough,

Looks like you are on your way. Great plan.

Your layout is similar to mine and will give you lots of flexibility as you and your kids grow.

Some ideas to kick around are:
1. Like matt_i's suggestion - have A/C & Heating wiring ran and breaker set up. You may not do it the first year or two, but you will later.
2. You may/will want many of the outlets a little above counter height, and not to many as the ankle bitter height. (wherever your going to have work benches, for sure).
3. You may want to put an 18" wide door in instead of the two smaller ones.
4. Have a dedicated circuit for your air compressor also.
5. Plan for the cable TV, Internet, and other VIP wiring before walls and the like get covered.

Good Luck and keep us updated with pictures.

The below is my build, and I'm in the water/sewer and insulation phase now.

Also, I'm just up the road a ways from you, Lake Anna.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351813

YES to attic truss. Just like many of the others have said - YES, DO IT!

Here is my thread.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351813

The attic will save my garage from getting cluttered with all that **** that comes into the garage.

First of all - welcome from another Virginian. I'm trying to do the same thing.
Would you mind PM-ing me with your builder's name and contact information?

I was wondering why you've got the wide door on the left, adjacent to the stairs. In my mind, it'd be better to have the wide door the lift bay. Moneywise, you're better off with a large door and 1 small door instead of 3 small doors...or in your case, 1 medium door and 2 small doors.

Lastly, I'm in the early stages of a potential lift group buy. PM me with some info if you want to try to get in on it. I'm trying to have the lifts here before the concrete is poured as I want an in-ground scissor lift.

I also would be looking at 2 wider doors vs 2 smaller ones. 12 ft is so much better. Way less hardware and as was suggested move a bit away from the wall to leave room for benches and tool boxes etc. Some of the most valuable space in a building is along walls. My bud had 30x40 with 2 doors and it was super cramped with 2 cars. 36 wide would have been like adding a whole nother bay really, never could really put stuff along there.

The lift uses the same circuit demands as 200 compact mig welders. Nothing special, add a box to splice the wire to the lift and to a 6 50 R welder recept and its good to go. Number 10 or 12 wire and a 30 breaker.

jdorrough said:

@ard, the builder stated I'll need a landing of some type as the max code will allow is 12'. He first had the stairs with a 90 degree turn. I've attached an image. I didn't like that as it wouldn't flow well for someone to enter the entry door headed to the loft, especially if a car was parked in bay1. The area listed as a closet will be my "clean" area to demarc my cable, internet and surveillance. Under the landing will be compressor storage. I agree with you about the wasted space. I'm thinking of hanging yard tools in that space, like rakes, shovels, brooms and maybe even weed eater.

Click to expand...

You could put that landing and the 3 steps going 'out' on the 'top' of the steps. So that would not impact the downstairs bay. Would kinda happen above the bathroom where you dont need 14ft ceilings.

How about an elevator?

Thanks again for all the input! I really do appreciate it.
@bcygan, I'll try to answer all the questions...
-The garage will match the house, siding, stone work to grade, same shingles.
-I have to admit that I don't know all the local codes and will be relying on the builder to guide me there. I'm assuming I'll be far enough away from the primary residence
-I'm on a wooded lot so trees to lift side, house to entry door side, driveway to the front, and roughly a cleared acre behind with lots of wooded area behind that
-power, water, sewer would enter on the entry door side

@Tool Fool, Not sure about joist dimensions. I asked the builder exactly what you were referring to and he said it wouldn't fit. He could be full of it, but I abandoned the idea when I realized I could get two closet spaces out of the 180 degree design. Thanks for trying to crunch the numbers. As for the door, yes, that's the first thing my wife noticed. It will need to be changed.

@Ombibulous, Yeah, I've thought of that but from my experiences growing up on a farm using different shop layouts, I think I'll get the most use out of shop space along that 40' of back wall. I feel like the long shallower space is more usable than a square workshop space. Not sure if I'm doing a good job of explaining that I also don't want this garage to be packed full of cars just parked. I have a two car attached garage for parking daily drivers and would prefer the space be used for project cars. If I have more than 3 project cars I'll need to store them in my tractor carport area.

@egnorant, I like the thought about the entry door. I didn't even notice how close it was to the front wall. Good catch. The location of the larger OH door was really a tough choice because the center bay has the lift post to contend with and it would put the 10' door closer to the steps which limit how far I can park away from them. Loft area will be closed in, I can't imagine keeping that area clean if it were open to dust, welding smoke, etc. if I left it open like a mezzanine. I plan to have a fridge, tv, pool table, retro arcade games in there. As far as the lift goes, I'm thinking about putting an access door on the loft wall closest to the lift. Maybe even mounting a cheap Harbor Freight hoist to pick stuff up. I like the electrical advice. I'll plan to follow your lead. As for the drain, I'm not planning on having one. Hopefully the concrete guys can put the correct slope in when they finish the pad.

@Mike.VA, Dude! I just sold my house in Bumpass to build this house in Mechanicsville. I loved it out there, I just needed better internet and the wife wanted to be a little closer "civilization". Your garage looks to be coming along nicely, congrats. All great ideas/suggestions. My father-in-law owns an HVAC company in Richmond so I'll probably have him design something after I get through the permit phase. I'll definitely get all the structure cabling knocked out before the walls are buttoned up. I'm a computer network nerd for a living so I take pride in my cabling. I may call my builder's bluff on attic trusses and reach out to the guys you used to see what they can do for me.

@vavet, PM sent, I'm also in Mechanicsville.

@ard, I thought I had tried every possible stair combination but never thought of that. That's really a great idea. Now I need to decide if want to lose my two closets and go with your idea.

jdorrough said:

@ard, I thought I had tried every possible stair combination but never thought of that. That's really a great idea. Now I need to decide if want to lose my two closets and go with your idea.

Click to expand...

You still have a closet under the stairs- could have the door to it facing the bathroom.

I’d consider make my the stair with a small 90 degree run at bottom to get inspected, then after, making it one straight run like you want. Done it before. The codes have other rules, like on railings, where someone might want to build a “temporary” , complying railing then later building the one you want. Done that too.