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vintage saw restoration

LesserSon

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EDIT - it came to my attention that I hadn’t linked to the DisstonianInstitute site, which I find an excellent resource, providing model identification and production dating for major models of Disston handsaws. It’s not my intention (nor within my ability) to recreate that site, so please check it out.

Here's what I do with old saws. Other people do things different, with different goals, and that's okay. I've tried multiple means of removing rust, but since electrolysis, chemicals, and abrasives leave a bright steel with no character, I've sort of settled into manual scraping and wire brushing. This removes the hematite, which is the crusty, red rust we all hate, but can leave a film of magnetite, which is the dark "blued" sheen which, since it is inevitable and natural, seems to me to be the proper stopping point when cleaning up old steel.
These old saws came into my care yesterday in the rain, and when I saw the clouds clearing today, I could not wait to get home and get started on them. I will focus on the four shorter bucker's saws, because the two-man saws are deeply pitted. One of the four has had major surgery on the handle. The sheet metal repair and reinforcement is so interesting, I plan to leave it entirely alone, and probably won't try removing it from the saw. The other three are in various states.
First things first: remove the wood handles or totes. These saws are not all the same age, and appear to have been exposed to moisture to different degrees. One of the handles has a significant split. It was held on with two brass saw nuts, but the middle one is long gone. After removing it from the blade, I will let it acclimate and see how much of a gap remains. It will probably need to be filled. You can see where moisture got to the steel under the handle where the split was. It amazes me how the wood protects the steel and the brass from corrosion. Compare the heads of the sawdust to the shafts. I think I see, from the pattern on the steel, that the slots in the handles were cut on a circular saw. (Think about how thin that saw blade had to have been, to cut only the width of these saw blades - a saw blade can't cut its own handle slot, because the set of the teeth make it cut too wide.)
Interestingly, the one on the rustiest saw has no splits, and the three saw nuts come out pretty easily. But the handle won't budge. I clamped the blade in a vise and tapped the handle off with a block of wood and a hammer.
The third handle is held with only two saw nuts. It has a narrow split on one side only. It doesn't gap on its own, so it is a prime candidate for superglue. I wedged the crack open a tad with a tapered punch and put some glue in. I clamped it gently, and wiped off the excess glue with a paper towel. That's important, because the glue cures harder than wood, making it difficult to remove afterward.
 

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LesserSon

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Now I want to take a look at the blades. Enticingly, I can see etches on two. The rusty one, I'm uncertain about. I'll start scraping the blade with a utility-knife blade. I've tried paint scrapers, putty knives, and razor blades. They can be made to work, but the main thing is to avoid the blade chattering on the surface, which the razor is particularly prone to. I hold the blade firmly at a compound angle. The direction of travel must me parallel with the length of the blade. Saw blades were ground to dimension from end to end, and there are light grooves. Scraping any other direction will introduce new grooves. (The exception is on the teeth - they require adaptive technique.)
You'll be able to see that even being careful, I occasionally loose control of the blade when it hits a pit, resistant lump of rust, or burr. Long steady strokes work the best, but I'm keen to see the etches. Really, if they aren't salvageable, I won't be as caring about the rest of the saw. As my grip gets less reliable, I switch hands, or grip the blade two-handed, and give a little bow to it. This helps keep the two tips from making bright scratches into the steel. There are knife blades that have the tips rounded, but I haven't seen them in bulk. I bought my blades at retail, but in a twin pack of a couple hundred, so they weren't too expensive. And for this purpose, they can be touched up on a stone and strop.
 

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LesserSon

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So what do the etches look like? This one says "LIBERTY BELL - PATENT TEMPERED - PATENT GROUND - SPECIAL [SELECT? SPRING? maybe room for CRUCIBLE?] STEEL" and probably Philadelphia at the bottom, but I can't see it. The first photo is before scraping. You can see in the middle photo, directly lit by sun, that the knife can mar the surface pretty quick. I'm not super hurt by this, because the exposed bright steel will darken in time, and I can help it a little if necessary. The last photo shows the same surface at a different angle and lit by the reflected sky. I would think a polarized lens filter would help control the contrast, but I'm using my smartphone. Personally, I don't want to do much more to this spot, but some would want to get a block and wet sand this. It would conceal my scrapes, but there's two problems:
There are pits in the steel which probably go deeper than the etch - it's too easy to sand out the etch while chasing a mirror finish. Plus, the abrasives get into the etch and roll around under the block, polishing it out a little (or a lot).
Since it is inevitable that the steel will darken, why not just leave it? Every time it's polished bright in the future, more surface would be removed permanently, eventually removing the etch. Anyway, for my taste, I like the steel to look its age.
 

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LesserSon

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The rusty saw? Well, yes, it has an etch. Pretty pathetic, though. The keystone symbol screams Disston. It probably says H DISSTON & SONS in an arc above the keystone with the scales in it, but I can't quite see it.
I can read "CAST STEEL" and "PHILADELPHIA" but it will take further study to see more. I think the catalogs will help. The pitting makes this one unlikely for much more revelation. Sanding would just make the pits more obvious, and probably obliterate the etch.
 

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LesserSon

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This one came up a little better. "KEYSTONE SAW MFG CO - CAST STEEL WARRANTED TRADE MARK PATENT GOUND - PHILADELPHIA USA.' This is a Disston mark. I'm looking in catalog No.100-R9, and not seeing this, so I'd guess it's in one before that.
 

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JimNC

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Have you considered bronze wool and oil rather than dry scraping with a razor? Or maybe copper flashing in a holder such that it only protrudes as little as necessary?
 

skunkape1

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I sure can relate to the excitement when discovering etching, writing, or whatever identifying marks you find on a piece your cleaning or restoring. Good stuff here, thanks!
 

jimreed2160

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I like your razor blade idea. It does seem to leave a nice patina. I have been cleaning saw plates with Simple Green and 600 grit AO sandpaper on a block. A light touch will bring out even faint etches.
 

bill300d

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Razor blades and wd40 works great to accomplish what your doing on the blade. Sure it's a little messy but the results are worth it
 

SweetD

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Do you attempt to sharpen your saws at all? I have a few that could stand to be spruced up a bit and sharpened...cool projects!
 
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LesserSon

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Bill300d, I have used WD40 in the past, and I agree it is messy and that it helps. I'm doing this in my back yard, so trying to minimize the mess. While iron oxide dust will, if anything, improve my soil, gooey wipes will just make a disposal problem. I will probably use some toward the end of the process.
SweetD, I have touched up a couple of saws to use, but not many. What I find with old saws, is that the teeth aren't too bad. The saws bind because the surface of the blade is rusted. These big ones, I think, will be good to practice filing form, as the teeth are huge compared to most handsaws.
 
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LesserSon

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I mentioned the "repaired" handle in my first post. Here's a larger picture of it. It sort of appeals to my sense of excess effort for small payoff. Several companies that made this type of saw offered them with steel handles. Probably, this one was employed in a situation that by rights should have had steel-handled saws.
 

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LesserSon

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I was getting a bit sloppy with the saw plates, so I took a break from them to work on the handles today.
This one had no noticeable finish. I want to give it one, so...
First, I sanded the edges. Wrapping sandpaper around a dowel can help with inside curves, but I was using very fine stuff just to remove the surface dirt, so not too worried about ruining the contour. I noticed that the two sides had worn a bit differently, so I evened them up with a rasp. Then I sanded the flats, using a sanding block this time.
On closer inspection it did have a very fine crack on one side, so superglue, which darkened the wood. This handle feels more like apple than beech, so I was thinking of keeping it light with clear shellac, but this decided for me. I rubbed it down with Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO), which darkens most wood, but really darkens some aged woods. This got to be the color I would expect American chestnut to get; I was a little surprised. I don't think BLO was commonly used when finishing handles, but the wood used in the factory was aged around six years, not a century. The BLO will help restore a little elasticity.
Very dry airmass today, with a breeze and strong sun to get the curing started. Rain in the forecast tomorrow, so it goes indoors tonight. After a few days, I should be able to put shellac over it.
 

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LesserSon

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On to the saw nuts. First, I gave them a bath in solvent alcohol and an old toothbrush, in case shellac had gotten on them. Nope, they're clean, just corroded. Verdigris looks fine on Lady Liberty, but I don't want it on my saw nuts. Nor do I want to make them brassy bright, which is what you will get if you use brass polish or steel wool on them.
So instead, I will use a soft brass strip and a brass brush, and rub them on my pant leg to get that coppery brown glow. The medallion is a bit of trouble. First of all, it's nothing special, a generic Warranted Superior with a silly little eagle. (Actually, it was such a mess of crusty green that I was't sure what it was until I had scraped it a bit. Unfortunately, I didn't take a before pic.)
Some have magnificent eagles. Humph. But the stars and ring of dots confirm the same impression I got from the keystone emblem in the rusty saw's faded etch - telltale Disston, even without their name. So scrape it as smooth as I can, then brush just till the letters and image start to stand out. Good enough. If it was a particularly rare (1870s or earlier) or beautiful medallion, I would have used a magnifier to aid the scraping. Here's a saw nut with just one side done.
Now isn't that what it should look like? No one is going to think this is a modern reproduction.
 

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LesserSon

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Here's a medallion worthy of meticulous conservation. 1856-1859. I paid $3 at a Philadelphia flea market for the saw this is on. I have one older (1845-1855), but it is way too brassy bright to support my argument.
 

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doublearon98

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Lots of hand work, trust me I know.

I've actually been restoring about 6 disston saws the past few weeks. I like to put tung oil and buff in carnauba wax. Turns out great while keeping the natural colors of the wood.

I have a buffing wheel for the brass screws which takes a couple seconds for each one. Much better than by hand

These are pictures of a 100 year old no.16 I just finished.

Resized_20180605_150440.jpegResized_20180606_145709.jpgResized_20180606_145705.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
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LesserSon

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Looks good! I am impressed with the apparent evenness of tone in the handle.
You might get as effective a light-wood look with polyurethane or acrylic. I don’t use poly unless it is the original finish on the handle, which it was for some models mid-century. You can tell, because it crazes. I’ve tried acrylic (waterbourne urethane), and it rides over endgrain, leaving a hazy bluish look. A previous spitcoat of shellac helps. I don’t know what the long term look will be, but I do like how acrylic feels to the touch, and how easy it is to keep clean. The oak tabletop these are sitting on is acrylic over shellac, and it’s gotten a lot of use over the last fifteen years.
What I’m dealing with is very old scuffs and scratches through the original shellac/lacquer. Decades of oxidation have darkened the exposed wood, but where the finish held up retains its original lighter color. Other than bleaching (which some guys do; it’s meticulous work with sometimes limited results), there’s really only two options: leave it patchy and streaky, or darken it evenly. The one on the left, I have lightly sanded to clean the surface, leaving the original finish where it survived. Then a layer of can shellac (which contains wax). The one on the right had no remaining finish, got a coat of BLO before the shellac. They’re both apple. I can probably get a slightly more even appearance by stripping the remnants of original finish with solvent alcohol.
 

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HobbyistWolf

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Damn fine work! Makes me want to dig out my grandpa's old saws and get them properly cleaned up! ...though I'd have to find them first, organization wasn't a priority when what was left of his tools (after the rest of the family picked over them) was transferred to our garage, and it has been over two decades since then.
 
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Offcenter12

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Wow! Nice work. I use hand saws fairly often for small projects around the house. There was a fairly small crosscut in the garage when we bought our house in '92 and the new neighbor at the time had his parents out from Minnesota for a house warming. The dad asked to borrow a saw as he was building new garage doors for his son's garage and that was all I had at the time. The dad owned a hardware store back in Minnesota and offered to sharpen the saw and send it back. I've never cleaned the blade, but it's sharper than s@#t after it's trip to Minnesota and also the most used of all my Lie Nielsen back saws and Sandvik utility saws. I love that thing!
 

Offcenter12

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Definitely faster for a hack like me since I don't have to unearth anything to get to a power saw, find an extension cord, and then find enough safe space to cut. Then again, I'm not exactly Sam Maloof. :headscrat
 

jimreed2160

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I have several power options but hand saws are my favorite for small jobs. For several years the only saw I could afford was a coping saw. They are amazing, especially on small stuff like dowels. Coping saws cut on the pull stroke and that thin blade will go anywhere your eyes will.
 
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LesserSon

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I was digging around, but I can't find a pic of the saws that started my interest, my great-grandfather's. I'll have to take some new pics. Meantime, here's a little Jackson backsaw I found and restored a while back. Beech handles can really pop with BLO and tinted shellac.
 

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LesserSon

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Having scraped about as much rust as will come off, time to wire wheel. Do NOT use a coarse wheel. I’ve got fine and extra fine. Plus some carding brushes, but they aren’t really necessary. I try to get the remaining brown off without removing the black. Keep it moving, rotating in the direction of the blade. Leaving the wheel on one spot too long will remove the thin layer of magnetite/blued surface. Finally, a wax-based rub. I’ve got some old tins of boot wax I’ll use.
I also researched the Liberty Bell saw. I could just make out the words “Hardware Co” on the lower arc, after something hyphenated. Turns out to be a plain-tooth crosscut saw sold by Supplee-Biddle Hardware, probably manufactured by Disston. One conundrum is why the handle has only two holes. The saw has three holes in a straight verticle line. The images I see online show the usual L-array of three holes. Could be the handle is a replacement, but that doesn't explain the non-standard arrangement of holes on the blade. I ran out of 400-grit sandpaper tonight, otherwise I’d have the last coat of shellac on the handle.
 

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LesserSon

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Today, I decided to do some work on a Keen Kutter I’ve had hanging around for some time. I stopped in St Louis to visit my sister, on the way back from Mrs LesserSon’s and my west coast road trip adventure (6857 miles in a minivan), and I think the visit reminded me I had this saw. (Note to self: stop ordering pulled pork at Salt & Smoke, when you really want the brisket.)
The blade had a very even coat of rust and dried sap from an aborted attempt I made at putting it to use a few years ago. As I’ve said before, I think what makes old saws unusable is binding from rust. Maybe I’ll get a chance to test that theory, because I think this one is plenty sharp.
Scraped the blade, then hit it with a fine wire wheel in my hand drill. Then, by popular demand, a light sanding with 400-grit wet/dry sandpaper on a rubber block.
I probably did a little too much with the wire wheel. I think the etch would be darker if I’d stopped before the bright steel started peeking through the plum patina. But it’s good enough to read. The script is VERY similar to what Disston put on handsaws, but this is signed E.C.Simmons. Looks to be model No.K300.
 

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LesserSon

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The handle had Hoover painted in yellow on both sides. I scraped it off with a blade. I wish I had done that a couple years ago, so the wood would oxidize where the letters were. A patient guy would put this project aside and let that happen. A chemist might try to speed the process along. I’m neither.
I’ve decided to keep the handle light, so no BLO this time. Just a careful sanding with 220-grit sandpaper. You can still see the ghost of Hoover. Even after a coat of shellac. Ah well, it must have once belonged to Hoover, and he’s going to haunt it evermore.
 

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LesserSon

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The handle was attached with two original sawnuts (including the medallion, thank goodness) and a rusty 3/16” stove bolt, two washers and square nut. I have a fairly good doner sawnut for that (lower left), though it is slightly smaller than the original (lower right). Not hard to swap out later, if I get a better match from some other doner.
Just a light brushing with a fine brass brush to bring up the sheen. Not a fan of bright yellow brass.
 

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LesserSon

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Yeah, I think so. Here’s a close-up on the reinstalled medallion and the handle back in place.
I’ve done a few now, but this time I suddenly realized that the handles must originally have been shellaced before being cut and drilled to receive the blade, because those areas never have any sign of finish. That sequence would make the finishing a lot easier and quicker, with smoother results. Re-finishing them, you have to use less efficient S-shaped and interrupted strokes, almost always getting unplanned build-up and runs at corners. Heck, they probably just dipped them, gave them a shake, and hung them to dry. I wonder if they even needed multiple coats?
 

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Private Lugnutz

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Snapped this shot for you at my Friday early bird, LS!

The sticker reads, "UNUSUAL SAW UNKNOWN FUNCTION $30.00 (crossed-out) MAKE OFFER"

EDIT: I didn't (make an offer) because the guy pissed me off. He had twelve (12) Snap/on pieces that he insisted on selling only together as a lot for $60 firm even though it was a mix of drive sizes and era. 5 bucks a piece for Snap/on is a very nice price, but I didn't need/want most of it, and literally nothing matched except the six (6) "G" (1945) code Ferret swivels sockets that I wanted!
 

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LesserSon

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I wouldn’t have made an offer on it, either, because $1 would probably be taken as an insult. Maybe $3 as a curiosity.
Looks like it started life as a Disston No12, in the 1896-1917 era, but now the only value, other than as a record of a thrift-minded owner’s idea of how to get a little more use out of a buggered rip saw, is in the sawnuts. The original medallion has been replaced with a regular sawnut, and the top horn is sheered off. The handle won’t fit any other saw plate (though it might not take a lot of modifaction to make it fit).
My guess is, it could be used to cut a rectangular hole right up to an obstruction like a wall with a relatively small bore to start the cut (sort of a big jab saw). That design of handle with the extra D-shaped relief for a second hand also allows it to be flipped around to saw away from the carpenter. Maybe could cut tenons in timber framing. If the acute angle of the toe is significant, it might offer a clue.
 
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rickhigginshtbr

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You inspired me to work on a couple of the saws I had laying around from buying larger lots of tools. I did one a couple years ago and I didn’t like the looks of it. Still not thrilled with this one, but considering you couldn’t see the logo at all prior, it’s better than it was.

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This Disston D8 Thumbhole was pretty trashed when I got it. Disassembled, evaporust soak, scrape, 200 grit, gun blue, 320 grit, 400 grit then wax. The handle I sanded down, used 3 coats BLSO, then 4 coats spray varnish. The brass I just hit with some red rogue on the bench grinder. It’s not horrible, but not the best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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LesserSon

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Looks good, Rick! The weather has been no friend of refinishing, or much else lately.
I turned my attention today to making a home for a few saws I want to keep above street level. I had two IKEA book cases that have finished nearly three decades duty holding our kids’ books. So I cut a 2x4 (also notched) and a mop handle to length, and 6 deck screws later, I’ve got upright storage for 19 handsaws.
My longest and shortest No.8s both fit, so most any other saws should, too. I left 3 shelves on the bottom. Maybe planes, brace bits, etc, will go there.
I think the other book case may get modified to house pliers, chisels, screwdrivers.
 

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LesserSon

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Picked up a rare treat today for $3: a 26” Disston No.112 rip saw w/6tpi. Based on production years and the medalion, 1903-1917, so a real century saw. At some point before it got much use, someone slathered it in what looks like linseed oil, which has helped protect the etch. But then someone has tried to use it, which exposed the teeth to oxidation and pitting. The handle looks great. I plan to clean up the blade and decide whether to refinish the handle or not. It’s a tough call, because despite finish loss and blade oxidation, this fairly rare saw is in as close to unused condition as any I have. Doing more than rust removal (and even that) obscures detail that tells the story of how it was made.
I can see that the shellac is at least twice as thick on the edges and hand hole as on the flats. That and the parallel machine marks on the flats tell me the edges were lacquered, then the flats sanded (or otherwise machined), and a final coat of shellac applied. Then the holes were bored and the slot cut.
Even the medalion tells a story - there is a flat edge that made its impression into the wood when it was tightened. It tells me three things: quality control did not reject this medalion, even on a premium saw; the subtle impression of the backsides of the saw nuts mean they were inserted with some force; and it did not matter that the branding on medalion was upside-down. With most of my saws, if I take them apart, I usually replace the medalion about 180° from how this one was.
 

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LesserSon

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Edit - Oops! that 112 was 6tpi, not 9tpi. I corrected it in the original post.
Earlier in the day, I paid a dollar for this much older (1833-1849) English saw, which has seen a LOT of use. I told myself I would just salvage the 4 split nuts out of it for other old saws I have, but then I scraped the rust from the stamp, and now it has an identity. Wilson, Hawksworth and Moss produced cutlery at 1 Arundel Lane, Sheffield.
This saw has been “repaired” before, held together with black cloth tape and three brads. Off with the tape, out with the brads. Two left about a third of their rusty selves deep in their holes. Oh well. Super glue will be my repair of choice.
 

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