Carriage Door build opinions

Samh · Mar 7, 2019

Really wanting carriage doors for my build. Currently planning on doors being 10x10, so each door would be two 5x10 doors that swing out. Keep hearing people talking about the doors sagging, so I am kicking around the idea of making them out of 5x10 plywood. Currently thinking 2 layers of 3/4 with trim on the outer side.

Am I crazy doing it that way?

Also would love to see examples of carriage doors others have done.

Stuart in MN · Mar 7, 2019

5x10 sheets may be hard to find, but as for the construction I built some smaller doors for the attic level of my garage using plywood, faced with a dimensional lumber perimeter frame and beadboard in the centers, so they would look nice from the exterior. This isn't a very good picture but you can see them up on the gable end of the structure.

Samh · Mar 7, 2019

Those look good. Just 1 layer of plywood?

And yeah, I have found 5x10 sheets but they aren’t local. The good thing is they are marine grade

Any issues with your doors so far?

NORTON'S SHOP · Mar 7, 2019

Stuart in MN said:
5x10 sheets may be hard to find, but as for the construction I built some smaller doors for the attic level of my garage using plywood, faced with a dimensional lumber perimeter frame and beadboard in the centers, so they would look nice from the exterior. This isn't a very good picture but you can see them up on the gable end of the structure.

Did you take that picture today? Haha!! I'm about 80 miles southwest of you.

Stuart in MN · Mar 7, 2019

Samh said:
Those look good. Just 1 layer of plywood?
Any issues with your doors so far?

Yes, one layer of 3/4" plywood. The face frames are 5/4 redwood, nailed to the plywood. They're around 25 years old now with no issues, although I admit I don't open them very often.

Stuart in MN · Mar 7, 2019

NORTON'S SHOP said:
Did you take that picture today? Haha!! I'm about 80 miles southwest of you.

I wish.

There's a lot of snow on it now (and they say a lot more to come on Saturday.) The picture is about 25 years old.

K'ledgeBldr · Mar 7, 2019

Weight is always an issue with carriage doors- especially those being opened and closed regularly- and with an opener.

I've seen several different configurations- most plywood versions are single layer with 1X or 5/4 on front&aback. And I've seen a few that used a galvanized metal frame. And one made with an aluminum frame- the plywood is attached to the frames with sheetmetal screw/machine screw, and the "frame"/decorative details are glued/finish nailed to the ply.

I've also seen some pretty good sectional carriage doors that were all wood- the sectional seams were "hidden" just at the bottom of the decorative "rails".

Ballbearing hinges are a must!

ard · Mar 7, 2019

Make a square tube steel frame (1.5 or 2" heavywall), ball bearing hinges- maybe steel posts down 4,5ft into concrete... can hang a small car on each.

Samh · Mar 7, 2019

K'ledgeBldr said:
Weight is always an issue with carriage doors- especially those being opened and closed regularly- and with an opener.

I've seen several different configurations- most plywood versions are single layer with 1X or 5/4 on front&aback. And I've seen a few that used a galvanized metal frame. And one made with an aluminum frame- the plywood is attached to the frames with sheetmetal screw/machine screw, and the "frame"/decorative details are glued/finish nailed to the ply.

I've also seen some pretty good sectional carriage doors that were all wood- the sectional seams were "hidden" just at the bottom of the decorative "rails".

Ballbearing hinges are a must!

I guess that leads to my question about sag. Is the sag everyone is talking about, in the door itself, or in the frame/hinges? My idea of the solid 5x10 piece of plywood was to combat the door itself sagging.

Stuart in MN · Mar 7, 2019

With plywood the door itself isn't going to sag, although it could warp. Sag will occur if you don't have a solidly built frame along with good hinges that are fastened securely to that frame.

Yale · Mar 7, 2019

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, basically. My plan is to weld up 1.5"x2" steel tubing into a frame and then glue and through-bolt marine grade plywood on the outside and finish grade on the inside.

What is your source for 5x10 marine grade plywood, if I may ask? I've been unable to locate anything that size.

ard · Mar 7, 2019

Yale said:
What is your source for 5x10 marine grade plywood, if I may ask? I've been unable to locate anything that size.

Skip ANY place youve ever heard of..so no Home depot, no menards, no lowes...noplace that ever ran an ad in the sunday paper

Look for wholesale only plywood distributors. Then ask them if you can buy OR who you should call to place a will call.

I have two distributors I use down in Sacramento CA, 5x10 5x12 5x16. Melamine; oak, cherry, etc... havent specifically looked for marine. Recently needed a 60x144, one inch, MDF, melamine on two faces. 4 days.

Skiff Builder · Mar 7, 2019

Samh said:
Really wanting carriage doors for my build. Currently planning on doors being 10x10, so each door would be two 5x10 doors that swing out. Keep hearing people talking about the doors sagging, so I am kicking around the idea of making them out of 5x10 plywood. Currently thinking 2 layers of 3/4 with trim on the outer side.

Am I crazy doing it that way?

Also would love to see examples of carriage doors others have done.

Sam,
Doors shown below are 9wx8h. Used 2x4 inner frame. skinned on both sides with ply glued and screwed (torsion box), insulated also.
With the right trim scheme you can use standard 4x8 sheets for your size.
I used regular T hinges, but made sure they were pre loaded for the weight when fastening to the heavy posts framed within the wall so they resist sag. They get used often without trouble. Rigging a garage door opener for them when weather breaks.
Skiff Builder

joes99 · Mar 7, 2019

Use a quality hinge. These doors were 5/4 frame with plywood below the windows with v-groove inserts.

Samh · Mar 8, 2019

Skiff Builder said:
Sam,
Doors shown below are 9wx8h. Used 2x4 inner frame. skinned on both sides with ply glued and screwed (torsion box), insulated also.
With the right trim scheme you can use standard 4x8 sheets for your size.
I used regular T hinges, but made sure they were pre loaded for the weight when fastening to the heavy posts framed within the wall so they resist sag. They get used often without trouble. Rigging a garage door opener for them when weather breaks.
Skiff Builder

joes99 said:
Use a quality hinge. These doors were 5/4 frame with plywood below the windows with v-groove inserts.

Both those look nice.

Samh · Mar 8, 2019

Yale said:
I'm thinking of doing the same thing, basically. My plan is to weld up 1.5"x2" steel tubing into a frame and then glue and through-bolt marine grade plywood on the outside and finish grade on the inside.

What is your source for 5x10 marine grade plywood, if I may ask? I've been unable to locate anything that size.

Actually saw them at Menards
https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...0-acx-fir-plywood/1251070/p-1444452505105.htm

I could either have them shipped down here, or drive about 250 miles to the nearest one. Not terribly convenient, but not a deal breaker.

Also saw them here
http://www.noahsmarine.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=euro12-5x10

Little more pricey though

barks · Mar 8, 2019

Go to: Fine Homebuilding
Issue 226
March 8, 2012

The Ultimate carriage garage doors.

yeldogt · Mar 8, 2019

Have made a few -- you want to make them out of light weight materials if possible. My current building has 2 doors ..each 4x8. I used 2x dimensional lumber around the permitter .. with a simple cross in the middle of each door -- used Kreg to put frame together. Foam insulation in the space ....... skinned it with 1/4 plywood. Use plenty of glue ..... they are very strong. Use good hinges.

You can dress up the outside anyway you what .....

to make them bigger you just use longer 2xl lumber and place the seams over the cross members Design the outside layout to cover the seams.

The thin plywood on each side makes a torsion box -- the glue is what makes it work

larry4406 · Mar 9, 2019

I am also in need of building these. Some links I have saved in this regard.
Some are door build, some are hinges, some are openers, etc.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117996
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309884
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306967&showall=1
http://www.kudzupatch.com/woodshop/gdoors/index.shtml
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92642
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5965472
https://www.garagejournal.com/2011/05/atomic-industry-world-hq-part-5-the-door/
http://www.realcarriagedoors.com/hardware-cat.php?page=hinges-surface#H-RW-8035.00267
https://specialtydoors.com/product-category/hardware/barn-door-hardware/
https://www.evergreencarriagedoors.com/
http://www.cmoist.com/building-huge-carriage-style-doors/
https://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Carriage-House-Garage-Doors/
https://www.mcmaster.com/1796a12
https://issuu.com/pornsakh/docs/fine-woodworking--216-annual-issue---tools---shops
https://www.realslidinghardware.com/fremont-ceiling-mounted-outswing-opener-aocm/

https://www.realcarriagedoors.com/openers/
http://www.carriagedooropeners.com/product_detail_11032.aspx
https://www.sheddoorsnmore.com/Default.asp
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2082420&postcount=2

Samh · Jul 30, 2020

Thought I would give an update on my carriage door build.

Basically used the following as a guide, and just modified the dimensions of the doors.

http://www.cmoist.com/building-huge-...e-style-doors/

Here is the finished product and one of the glue up. Currently each 5x10 door weighs 143 lbs. Still working on what I am going to do for a window at the top.

fourbyford · Jul 30, 2020

Nicely Done!

...D

Metallitubby · Jul 30, 2020

That looks great! Nice color choice too.

captain14 · Jul 30, 2020

The doors will look great when mounted.

nadogail · Jul 30, 2020

Thanks for sharing, everything looks very professional.

Samh · Jul 30, 2020

nadogail said:
Thanks for sharing, everything looks very professional.

I learned a lot making these. I enjoyed making them so much, I am going to try to make real doors for all my interior doors in the house.

Metallitubby said:
That looks great! Nice color choice too.

Thanks. The color choice was my wife's

fourbyford said:
Nicely Done!
...D

Thanks.

yeldogt · Jul 31, 2020

Did you use southern yellow pine?

Samh · Jul 31, 2020

yeldogt said:
Did you use southern yellow pine?

I did. My initial logic was price because I wasn't sure if it was going to work out. Because of that, I got concerned about issues with rot. So I treated them prior to painting with Wolman Wood Classic, then painted with a Sherwin Williams Urethane on the outside, and MinWax Helmsman Spar Urethane on the inside. I am thinking about updating this thread every year or so to say how they are holding up. That is one of the things I never saw in all the articles I read on how to build.

Bolson32 · Aug 2, 2020

I need to build a couple too, how much of a gap did you allow for? That link you provided looks like an inch on each side? That seems like a lot, no?

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Samh · Aug 3, 2020

Bolson32 said:
I need to build a couple too, how much of a gap did you allow for? That link you provided looks like an inch on each side? That seems like a lot, no?

Sent from my SM-G965U using The Garage Journal mobile app

Do you mean the gap that the tongue and groove boards sit in? Yes, that is 1" inch all the way around. And then they float in that, and there is a 1/4" gap between the frame and the tongue and groove boards. Hopefully that makes sense.

Bolson32 · Aug 3, 2020

Samh said:
Do you mean the gap that the tongue and groove boards sit in? Yes, that is 1" inch all the way around. And then they float in that, and there is a 1/4" gap between the frame and the tongue and groove boards. Hopefully that makes sense.

No, I mean the size of your doors compared to the rough opening.

I'm going to build mine different but I'm wondering how much play to leave.

That link you shared pretty much leaves a full inch all the way around, then another 3/4 between the doors. That feels like a lot to me.

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Samh · Aug 3, 2020

Bolson32 said:
No, I mean the size of your doors compared to the rough opening.

I'm going to build mine different but I'm wondering how much play to leave.

That link you shared pretty much leaves a full inch all the way around, then another 3/4 between the doors. That feels like a lot to me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

My doors are 59-3/4"x119-3/4". My opening for the doors is 10x10. I assume the plan is that way since they open outward. I would have done the same if mine opened outward, but I made mine open inward. Didn't want the doors to not open because of a blizzard. It was also a lot easier to hang them, because I could position them with the correct gaps, and then build the frame around them. I am not sure I am a good enough carpenter to do it like an actual door.

Bolson32 · Aug 3, 2020

Okay, so you built yours more like a pre-hung door? Built a frame, then hung the frame in the rough opening?

I was kind of planning on using the rough opening as the frame, since it's pretty square.

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Samh · Aug 3, 2020

Bolson32 said:
Okay, so you built yours more like a pre-hung door? Built a frame, then hung the frame in the rough opening?

I was kind of planning on using the rough opening as the frame, since it's pretty square.

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Not exactly. I framed my garage door similar to how you would for a normal garage door. Then had the door behind that since the some of the doors ended up being a little larger than that opening. So the frame for the door is nailed to the framing. I can take a pic of it tonight to help clarify.

Bolson32 · Aug 3, 2020

Samh said:
Not exactly. I framed my garage door similar to how you would for a normal garage door. Then had the door behind that since the some of the doors ended up being a little larger than that opening. So the frame for the door is nailed to the framing. I can take a pic of it tonight to help clarify.

That would be great! Thank you.

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Bert_ · Aug 3, 2020

Hard to see in some of the pictures but when building a door like this make sure you aren't leaving flat surfaces where water can sit. Horizontal boards need a 10-15* bevel to shed water and prevent rot.

Samh · Aug 11, 2020

Bolson32 said:
That would be great! Thank you.

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Sorry it took so long.

Here is a pic from the inside with the door hung, and without.

I plan on doing a header above it once I get my insulation and wall sheathing up.

Bolson32 · Aug 11, 2020

No worries, but now I understand what you mean. I don't think that'll work for me, as I need them to open out in order to save space.

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Samh · Aug 12, 2020

Bert_ said:
Hard to see in some of the pictures but when building a door like this make sure you aren't leaving flat surfaces where water can sit. Horizontal boards need a 10-15* bevel to shed water and prevent rot.

That would have been good to do when building them. That being said, I did spray these with a preservative so hopefully it isn't too much of an issue. I was thinking about updating this thread every year to show how they are standing up to the elements. That was something that was lacking with a lot of the info I read on building them.

jollygreengiant · Aug 24, 2020

Reading through this thread, it seems like the #1 issue for people who have built carriage doors has been sagging. Has anyone installed a castor wheel to help with this? I realize this would only help for inswing doors but it seems like it would work?

That's the idea I'm tossing around anyways. Haven't decided to go with carriage doors yet but if I do they will be 8' tall and 6' wide per door, so pretty heavy.

Samh · Aug 24, 2020

jollygreengiant said:
Reading through this thread, it seems like the #1 issue for people who have built carriage doors has been sagging. Has anyone installed a castor wheel to help with this? I realize this would only help for inswing doors but it seems like it would work?

That's the idea I'm tossing around anyways. Haven't decided to go with carriage doors yet but if I do they will be 8' tall and 6' wide per door, so pretty heavy.

I am actually planning on doing just that. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. Also planning doing the medievel beam across the back when it's shut.

When people mention sagging, I've often wondered if they mean the door itself, or the frame/framing it is attached to. Don't remember if I ever got an answer when I asked.

As a frame of reference, my 5x10 doors weigh 143 lbs each. That doesn't include the window, but the first window I have test build doesn't weigh very much, as I went with lexan instead of real glass. I went that way after talking with a glass company, and they mentioned that glass at a certain height had to be a certain temper and certain thickness.

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