floor pit construction

atotalnincompoop · Jun 24, 2006

i'm just forming up my new slab and was interested in seeing what people have done when putting a pit in their floor.
i have the basic knowledge of how to construct it, my brother is a forming carpenter, i just wanted to see some pics of some of yours.
depth, length, stair construction, lighting, cover grate material, etc.
thanks :beer:

Wile1Coyote · Jun 24, 2006

Don't do it, with the affordability of lifts either 4 or 2 post it just isn't worth it. Fumes, Fire, trapped by car etc they really are very dangerous.

atotalnincompoop · Jun 24, 2006

Wile1Coyote said:
Don't do it, with the affordability of lifts either 4 or 2 post it just isn't worth it. Fumes, Fire, trapped by car etc they really are very dangerous.

there is a height restriction in my nieghbourhood, i can't go high enough for a lift.

Craig Balzer · Jun 24, 2006

atotalnincompoop

My basic recommendation is to check with the codes for your area. Most states will NOT allow a pit to be built into a new structure for all the reasons Wile1coyote already mentioned.

It'd be the pits to dig one and then have to close it up permanently for safety reasons -- -- pun intended.

Craig

atotalnincompoop · Jun 24, 2006

Craig Balzer said:
atotalnincompoop

My basic recommendation is to check with the codes for your area. Most states will NOT allow a pit to be built into a new structure for all the reasons Wile1coyote already mentioned.

It'd be the pits to dig one and then have to close it up permanently for safety reasons -- -- pun intended.

Craig

i check with the city, they are not allowed.
i want one anyways, so i would pile my drywall on top of it until after my framing inspection.
i realize they are dangerous, but with a few precautions, **** as a ventilation system built in, it would be a great tool for my garage.
i have broken my back twice, so laying under a car, even on a kwiklift, isn't a good thing for me. i would rather stand under it

randydupree · Jun 24, 2006

i have a pit,its 24' long x 6' deep x 4' wide. sometimes a lift just don't get it done! i work on heavy buses,forklifts,big trucks plus cars of all sorts,without a pit i'd be screwed.
dangerous?maybe.i've seen cars fall off lifts,hell,you got to be smarter than what your working with. for me,the pit is the way.
randy

bmwpower · Jun 24, 2006

Someone, somewhere had a pit setup in their home. Not sure where I saw it - here or the web. Really nice setup. He either had Porsches or Ferraris, so you know it was top notch. Maybe someone could locate it?

Wile1Coyote · Jun 24, 2006

How can a lift be too high? What's your garage height? If it is an 8' you can get most cars a solid 4+ feet off the ground, do that plus an old office rolly chair and you are GOLDEN! Why work standing up? Hell most of the time when I am working on the car I put it at that height anyway and I have the room to take it all the way up.

Wile1Coyote · Jun 24, 2006

Yeah I know the garage you are talking about BMW He was a Ferrari guy. That was a garage with a basement though as I recall which is a different deal. Pretty cool.

bmwpower · Jun 24, 2006

Wile1Coyote said:
Yeah I know the garage you are talking about BMW He was a Ferrari guy. That was a garage with a basement though as I recall which is a different deal. Pretty cool.

Really? I could have sworn it was a large pit.

customperformance · Jun 25, 2006

If you want a large pit in the garage then make it. if down the road you are worried about it when selling the home fill it with dirt and cap it with concrete and repaint the floor and nobody will ever know it was there but you.

cranejon · Jun 25, 2006

atotalnincompoop said:
i'm just forming up my new slab and was interested in seeing what people have done when putting a pit in their floor.
i have the basic knowledge of how to construct it, my brother is a forming carpenter, i just wanted to see some pics of some of yours.
depth, length, stair construction, lighting, cover grate material, etc.
thanks

There is no such thing as a SAFE pit. Figure the air handling and ventilation system to operate the pit will cost you $10,000 and it must be on anytime the garage is occupied! This will create a heavy utility bill.
I would try for a zoning variance to allow a higher garage. You are not going to fool the building inspector and if you try he will undoubtedly get an "atitude" creating even more problems for you, not to mention your insurance company. I would not recommend your plans.

randydupree · Jun 25, 2006

why do you need all that air handling equipment for a pit?
you need to go in any big truck stop,they all have pits in the shop area.i've never seen even a simple fan in one.
randy

MetalMangler · Jun 25, 2006

When is a pit not a pit?

When it is a second floor (basement)! After hearing that new constructions were prohibited from having pits I asked a newly done quickie oil change place how they got the ability to build... They told me that the "pit" was actually a second floor, with a seperate entrance/exit so you don't climb up the pit to get out. While this increases the complexity of the concrete build (I'm assuming you can't simply pour the floor) you would get your pit (and extra space for your tools, perhaps a fridge, room for your pinups where your S.O. isn't as likely to invade, etc)

MM

brownbagg · Jun 25, 2006

when you pour your slab. block out for the pit. then once the slab had dry enough to walk on. remove block out and fill with dirt so you only have about a inch debt, fill with concrete, remember its a inch thick. finish the garage, once everybody have checked off. break the concrete and finish your pit. if you want one, do it. Its werid the county will not let you have one but the county has one at the county garage.

Wile1Coyote · Jun 25, 2006

Maybe we aren't talking about the same one BMW, the one I am thinking of is like a 3 or 4 width single deep space with a full basement and shop underneath it, he has some very ornate teak or mahogony panels over the openings that he pulls back to allow under chasis work from the space below. It is a fantastic setup. Not the same one you are thinking of?

bmwpower · Jun 25, 2006

Wile1Coyote said:
Maybe we aren't talking about the same one BMW, the one I am thinking of is like a 3 or 4 width single deep space with a full basement and shop underneath it, he has some very ornate teak or mahogony panels over the openings that he pulls back to allow under chasis work from the space below. It is a fantastic setup. Not the same one you are thinking of?

That doesn't quite sound the same, but I could be wrong. Dang it, I hate it when I cannot find something!

atotalnincompoop · Jun 25, 2006

bmwpower said:
That doesn't quite sound the same, but I could be wrong. Dang it, I hate it when I cannot find something!

this is probably way more elaborate then what i am planning, but i would love to see anyways :beer:

Justanoldguy · Oct 12, 2010

My pit is 30ft long.
I use it heaps.
No venting system needed.
Even have built in power down there.
It is about 60 years old.
Same as the Lincoln.

Aberdale · Oct 12, 2010

My garage had a pit when I moved in. It had about 18" of water in it. I dried it out, sealed the walls, etc., but cannot keep it dry after a rain. Obviously perimeter drainage around the garage needs to be improved. You may want to consider good drainage in your build, or plan to run a sump pump to keep it dry, especially if you will have electricity down there.

I still have the pit, but it's covered up. I went the 2-post lift route and really like being out of the "hole" myself.

Dale

russlaferrera · Oct 12, 2010

I had a pit. It was great for lube and some exhaust work. I found it very restrictive. I filled it in with stone and topped it with concrete and installed a 2 post lift.

In my opinion you will be way better off with a lift. There are mid rise other lifts that can be used that will serve you much better. You may be able to notch out your ceiling. That would be cheaper than putting in a pit.

Take a look at different lift websites and see how much more can be done with any lift than with a pit.

Joe From NY · Oct 13, 2010

Gmonkee said:
This is in the shop I work at. Sorry I don't have a better pic of the layout, but the pit is partially blocked by the table.
Its about 5 ft deep and 8 ft long.

By that second photo, it looks like your shop is set up just outside the walls of a prison.

sneezer41 · Oct 13, 2010

There is no reason you cannot get a lift in a regular height garage. Yo only need full height where the roof of the vehicle is [say center 6 feet] which means an 8 foot eave with a regular pitch roof should do fine.

too many downsides to a pit. If you had one, use it, but why cause yourself trouble when the solution is simple?

nehog · Oct 13, 2010

Wile1Coyote said:
Don't do it, with the affordability of lifts either 4 or 2 post it just isn't worth it. Fumes, Fire, trapped by car etc they really are very dangerous.

Agreed, not worth the effort.

You end up with a hole in the floor, that you must keep covered with something strong enough it won't break through.

You are down there in the pit working, and damn-it, you forgot your widget tool. Climb up and get it. Oops, forgot the thing-da-ma-jig tool, climb up and get it. Bang, hit head on bumper climbing up for the what-ch-call-it tool. Trip to doctor causes you to loose your train of thought. You forgot were you were. A week later you can't find the who's-e-gotchi tool, because your short term memory was wiped when you hit your head. You back the car out because you are pissed, but after you get it, realize it won't start. So you push... Your foot slips on the floor, and you fall into the pit, breaking your leg, but fortunately you do find your tool. Only too late you realize your cell phone doesn't work in the pit. Your wife finds your body about a week later, and hopes you didn't suffer much. The medical examiner thinks you had a rough time of it, since your fingers were worn down to the first knuckle. Oh, well, there are worse ways to go, right?

Then there is the issue of 'drainage'. You cannot have a drain in a pit. You end up with a 'sump' which you must either scoop out, or pump out. Of course that pit in a pit is where your broken leg went, and you could not get it out. Oh, well, at least the water in the sump numbed the leg so you didn't feel the gangrene as much.

As a final note, your widow did have the pit filled in (with whatever tools you had left down there still there...) and now uses a nice 2 post Rotary lift.

Cost of framing the pit: $400
Cost of pit's re-bar: $120
Cost of additional concrete: $375
Cost of cover: $350
Cost of pump to pump out fluids: $280
Cost to fill in pit after death: $400

Sure there was a cost savings! Total of the sump was only just under $2K, but when you add in the salvage value of the lift, the lift is much cheaper!

(Yes, I considered a pit, and just the fact that I'd have to climb out to get each tool needed was enough to convince me that it was a non-viable project.)
:shocking:

Aberdale · Oct 13, 2010

Pits are the pits.

Dale

swharris · Oct 13, 2010

Wile1Coyote said:
Don't do it, with the affordability of lifts either 4 or 2 post it just isn't worth it. Fumes, Fire, trapped by car etc they really are very dangerous.

Totally agree! Was at a friend's farm shop with a buddy putting in a clutch on a PU. It was a long couple of days and I was a bit tired. I came into the shop and my friend who was at the other side of the truck asked me to get him the shifter. I reached into the truck and grabbed it off the seat and proceeded to walk around the front of the truck to hand it to him. The next thing I know I'm staring at the ceiling with my knee burning in pain. Yep... unbeknown to me he had pushed the truck back about 3 feet and I'd walked right into the pit. Could have just as easily snapped my neck and be a quad right now instead of just wrenching my knee.

Needless to say I do not like pits!

londonsteve · Oct 13, 2010

Great idea I have built a couple and the clients use them all the time. We fitted a sump pump and low voltage lighting, also a rebated edge with angle iron bolted to it to support a beam jack. Ventilation is pretty easy just run your pipework at different heights with normal extractor fans. if you have room cast a staircase instead of a ladder. A friend of mine had a pit made from stainless steel sheeting seam welded and he then fitted the lights, power points and exhaust fans, he then just dropped it in the hole, not only looks great but is dry and light.

Lippyp · Oct 14, 2010

Over here in the UK you can buy a prefabricated drop in fibreglass liner, prewired for lights and power, just dig a hole, suspend it in and backfill around it with concrete or even just sand. No leakage problems at all as its one piece and just add an extractor if you're worried about fumes. The big exhaust place down the road from me has lifts byut they still tend to do most of their work from a couple of massive pits.

http://www.mech-mate.co.uk/

blkhonda1991 · Oct 14, 2010

there are easier ways to get around height restrictions...you can frame a vaulted roof to gain enough to get the car lifted high enough to work on.

drmoonshine · Oct 14, 2010

Craig Balzer said:
atotalnincompoop

My basic recommendation is to check with the codes for your area. Most states will NOT allow a pit to be built into a new structure for all the reasons Wile1coyote already mentioned.

It'd be the pits to dig one and then have to close it up permanently for safety reasons -- -- pun intended.

Craig

In his case what is he suppose to do?

Stuart in MN · Oct 14, 2010

Lippyp said:
Over here in the UK you can buy a prefabricated drop in fibreglass liner, prewired for lights and power, just dig a hole, suspend it in and backfill around it with concrete or even just sand.

The thing is, building codes aren't necessarily the same in the US (or even in different parts of the US for that matter.)

From an electrical standpoint, the big problem with a pit in a garage floor is that flammable gases may settle down in the pit, which means that any electrical wiring or devices (lights, receptacles) need to be rated for use in a potentially explosive atmosphere.

From a life safety standpoint, there are a couple issues. One is obviously that someone (you, your kids, the family dog) could fall in the pit, or possibly get trapped inside. Another concern is the potential for exhaust fumes settling down into the pit and asphyxiating people. Some sort of exhaust fan could be installed to help prevent this, but because of the electrical issues mentioned earlier it would need to be explosionproof as well.

Now, the tricky part is these are code issues for commercial repair garages - the electrical code doesn't mention anything about pits in residential or hobby garages; I don't know about building codes for life safety issues but I suspect they are similar. Personally I wouldn't think about installing a pit without the safety provisions, and once you do all those things it will most likely be more expensive than a lift.

Still, it will all come down to what the local inspector is going to allow.

Lippyp · Oct 14, 2010

Does anyone know anybody thats experienced these problems? I do hear you on the falling in thing, from that point of view yeah I can see the danger. From a fuel vapour/exhaust gas point how common is this sort of accident? I guess you could always build in a cage for a canary like the old miners used to detect poisonous gas!

uhcrandy · Oct 14, 2010

My Dad had an old garage in the 40's with a pit. It sounds like we are lucky he survived. All those old mechanics, who used pits back in the day were lucky to have survived.

ihredo4 · Oct 14, 2010

When and if I get to build a shop I will have a pit in it. I could care less what the county says. My dad has heavy equipment, a trencher, dozer, backhoe, etc. It gets bad on my back to have to climb on top of these things to do repairs. Also it is a a hell of a lot easier to change the oil, starter and other things under them also. And much much safer.

Cuda · Oct 14, 2010

Stuart in MN said:
The thing is, building codes aren't necessarily the same in the US (or even in different parts of the US for that matter.)

From an electrical standpoint, the big problem with a pit in a garage floor is that flammable gases may settle down in the pit, which means that any electrical wiring or devices (lights, receptacles) need to be rated for use in a potentially explosive atmosphere.

From a life safety standpoint, there are a couple issues. One is obviously that someone (you, your kids, the family dog) could fall in the pit, or possibly get trapped inside. Another concern is the potential for exhaust fumes settling down into the pit and asphyxiating people. Some sort of exhaust fan could be installed to help prevent this, but because of the electrical issues mentioned earlier it would need to be explosionproof as well.

Now, the tricky part is these are code issues for commercial repair garages - the electrical code doesn't mention anything about pits in residential or hobby garages; I don't know about building codes for life safety issues but I suspect they are similar. Personally I wouldn't think about installing a pit without the safety provisions, and once you do all those things it will most likely be more expensive than a lift.

Still, it will all come down to what the local inspector is going to allow.

Exactilloso! Any electrical in a pit by code must be in explosion proof components. Huge huge costs. Lighting fixtures alone are a small fortune.
I'm pretty sure a sump pump in a pit needs to be explosion proof. To do it to code and be safe will be some big bucks.

Justanoldguy · Oct 14, 2010

My pit is 60+ years old and used pretty much full time all it's life and never has there been any hint of an explosion or anyone remotely sick from fumes. This world is WAY TOO MUCH regulated and wrapped in cotton wool. Why is that??

Ender-DI · Oct 14, 2010

^^^
Amen to this.

Stuart in MN · Oct 14, 2010

Justanoldguy said:
My pit is 60+ years old and used pretty much full time all it's life and never has there been any hint of an explosion or anyone remotely sick from fumes. This world is WAY TOO MUCH regulated and wrapped in cotton wool. Why is that??

I'm not saying bad things will happen, but they can happen. I haven't been personally involved with any accidents involving garage pits, but I am familiar with several cases of asphyxiation that occurred in similar environments, and have worked on the aftermath of industrial explosions where fatalities occured. So, I know a little bit about this kind of stuff.

People come here looking for advice, and we respond. I figure it's only right that we offer our advice to the best of our abilities. Whether they want to take it or not is up to them, but they may as well know all the facts.

regguy1 · Oct 14, 2010

Why not consider one of these:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71225

regguy1 · Oct 14, 2010

Justanoldguy said:
My pit is 60+ years old and used pretty much full time all it's life and never has there been any hint of an explosion or anyone remotely sick from fumes. This world is WAY TOO MUCH regulated and wrapped in cotton wool. Why is that??[/QUOTE]

Because sometimes people lack the facts / knowledge to make a safe decision.

floor pit construction

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