Just can't see buying a SnapOn type toolbox...

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

How do you guys justify spending thousands on a toolbox? I mean if I was a pro wrench I could maybe see it, but even used people still want $2500+ for them. For that money I could fill my entire garage with used Cman stuff!

I'm shopping for a roll-around type tool chest/cart and was looking at a Mac one locally on CL where the guy is asking $800. Found nearly the exact same thing for $50, but it's a Cman brand and not as pretty.

I really want a nice big SnapOn type box, but until I can get one for $500 no thanks.

Toolhorder · Dec 11, 2009

I can't see why people don't spend good money on a nice box and just buy a HF or C-man box. There is plenty of markup in a SO tool box but used boxes can be had for cheap on CL.

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

The cheapest price I've found for a SnapOn box... I'm talking the larger ones that can double as a work bench is $1700 and that's a very old faded red one.

tonydanzah · Dec 11, 2009

As long as the shop has tool insurance, i don't see the point. Even if you have a nicer toolbox, i was disgusted to watch on youtube how easy it is to pick a lock. From the videos, the tubular lock looked even easier to pick.

t100 · Dec 11, 2009

I looked for 4 years till I found a killer deal on a clean 63" Matco 3-bay box, paid 1/3 of the retail and I'm happy with it. Now the box is full and I paid almost everything in the box at the half price or less with very few exceptions.

if you are not a professional wrencher like me, just be a disciplined buyer. many members on this board are career mechanics, they are paid by what tools they are using, tool box is a very important tool. they buy expensive tools at full retail because:
a.) they don't have the luxury of time, customer's don't wait. they don't have time to wait till the "good deal" pops up.
b.) these tools pays themselves and some.

be patient.

greenreese · Dec 11, 2009

tonydanzah said:
As long as the shop has tool insurance, i don't see the point. Even if you have a nicer toolbox, i was disgusted to watch on youtube how easy it is to pick a lock. From the videos, the tubular lock looked even easier to pick.

Link?

gagdfgdfg

a390st · Dec 11, 2009

Some places have lots of great deals on CL on nice truck brand boxes. Around here, they are sky high and it is very rare that you see a good deal. I have seen the same thing in several parts of the country. I'm not sure why, but some places have much better deals on boxes than others. I would like to have a nice older Matco or Mac box, but the ones I have found weren't really that good deals, and weren't in the best of condition.

tonydanzah · Dec 11, 2009

search on youtube for picking locks, there are hundreds of videos

neverenoughtools · Dec 11, 2009

Picked up my new roller cabinet (48") wide and a top chest to match. they are black & made by Torin.

'They are from Costco , the Canadian equivalent of your Sams club. :beer:

Stuart in MN · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
How do you guys justify spending thousands on a toolbox? I mean if I was a pro wrench I could maybe see it, but even used people still want $2500+ for them. For that money I could fill my entire garage with used Cman stuff!

How do you justify owning a Z06 and a Panoz, when you could have a 20 year old Honda Civic instead?

How do people justify owning anything that's expensive? It's something they want and it's their money.

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
How do you guys justify spending thousands on a toolbox? I mean if I was a pro wrench I could maybe see it, but even used people still want $2500+ for them. For that money I could fill my entire garage with used Cman stuff!

I bought a used one for a quarter of the new price. Does the same job.

CamarosRus · Dec 11, 2009

There have been numerous threads regarding quality EXTREME, MONTEZUMA and to a lesser degreee HARBOR FREIGHT boxes.

Check out these alternatives.

Skyline · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
How do you guys justify spending thousands on a toolbox? I mean if I was a pro wrench I could maybe see it, but even used people still want $2500+ for them. For that money I could fill my entire garage with used Cman stuff!

I'm shopping for a roll-around type tool chest/cart and was looking at a Mac one locally on CL where the guy is asking $800. Found nearly the exact same thing for $50, but it's a Cman brand and not as pretty.

I really want a nice big SnapOn type box, but until I can get one for $500 no thanks.

You probably need to pay at least $1500 to get a full depth double bank KRL. There are plenty of these on eBay as well as CL...you just need to widen your search a little bit. These boxes were $6-7k new, so at used prices, they are a bargain, worth every penny. You might also need to be a little less fussy about color; the traditional red boxes tend to get the lowest prices, (nothing really wrong with red!). But if you want yellow, black, or blue, expect to pay a bit more.

Hazet · Dec 11, 2009

You could buy mine for a good price

and use the savings to fill it up with tools :thumbup:

.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47096

Mugen AP1 · Dec 11, 2009

Stuart in MN said:
How do you justify owning a Z06 and a Panoz, when you could have a 20 year old Honda Civic instead? How do people justify owning anything that's expensive? It's something they want and it's their money.

Well put

woody 73 · Dec 11, 2009

I liked the above replies as for me money is very tight I bought my Craftsman box on sale several years ago. As the others have said a nice used box will come just give it time....

Hiball · Dec 11, 2009

Where these boxes really show there true colors is after 5 years of 40+ hour work weeks where you have literally opened and closed your "loaded" tool box drawers 1000's of times. Im not a full time mechanic but ive owned some cheap boxes in my time and with the limited workout i give them after hours and on weekends, over a couple years you will start to see the big picture. Im not saying go out and buy a $8000 dollar toolbox if you dont wrench for a living but there are Many.. Many used boxes for sale at a fraction of there cost New.

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

neverenoughtools said:
Picked up my new roller cabinet (48") wide and a top chest to match. they are black & made by Torin.

'They are from Costco , the Canadian equivalent of your Sams club.

We have Costco's here

Stuart in MN said:
How do you justify owning a Z06 and a Panoz, when you could have a 20 year old Honda Civic instead? How do people justify owning anything that's expensive? It's something they want and it's their money.

Well... it's all about bang for the buck. I bought my Z06 used going on 6 years ago for about $20k less than a new one and the Panoz was an ex driving school car that my father and I picked up for a track toy for < $20k when Panoz sold their driving schools to Barber and liquidated the Panoz school cars (Barber uses Miatas now). Usually fully prepped race cars with similar performance go for 2x that... a used T1 Corvette is near $40k.

Point is that if I could get the same results w/ a $5k Civic I'd do it, but I can't. I guess I just don't see smoother drawers and better casters as being worth 10x the cost.

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Skyline said:
You probably need to pay at least $1500 to get a full depth double bank KRL. There are plenty of these on eBay as well as CL...you just need to widen your search a little bit. These boxes were $6-7k new, so at used prices, they are a bargain, worth every penny. You might also need to be a little less fussy about color; the traditional red boxes tend to get the lowest prices, (nothing really wrong with red!). But if you want yellow, black, or blue, expect to pay a bit more.

What does "KRL" mean?

Hazet said:
You could buy mine for a good price and use the savings to fill it up with tools .

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47096

Not big enough

And not driving to Florida for a toolbox :lol_hitti

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

I guess you'll have to live without then..

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Moose-LandTran said:
I guess you'll have to live without then..

I'll eventually find on that fits my needs... it's just about value perception. I mean I look at a brand new box some mechs use adn I don't see something worth $8000 bucks... It's just metal parts formed up and painted... not a whole lot of technology/production costs in a toolbox. Wonder what the markup is on something like that... I mean how much of what you're paying for is the name recognition?

I will say that total cost to own is probably low b/c when you go to sell it the name and quality perception helps maintain resale value... much like a Porsche does in the auto market.

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
I'll eventually find on that fits my needs... it's just about value perception. I mean I look at a brand new box some mechs use adn I don't see something worth $8000 bucks... It's just metal parts formed up and painted... not a whole lot of technology/production costs in a toolbox. Wonder what the markup is on something like that... I mean how much of what you're paying for is the name recognition?

To be honest, i think the same way about Corvettes. Plastic bodywork, pushrod engines, transverse single-leaf rear suspension, somewhat crappy interiors, etc. For what they cost, i don't see it as worth the money.

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Moose-LandTran said:
To be honest, i think the same way about Corvettes. Plastic bodywork, pushrod engines, transverse single-leaf rear suspension, somewhat crappy interiors, etc. For what they cost, i don't see it as worth the money.

Well then you're ignorant beyond debate on the merrits of the car... the only thing I remotely agree with is the interior materials used (not design/ergonomics) and that was vastly improved with the C6 platform.

A few facts about the platform -

1. Body work is SMC (sheet molding compound) other than the urethane bumpers. The car isn't "plastic" like a Saturn.

2. The LSX V8 is the most efficient V8 on the planet when you look at horsepower per volume... i.e. the overall size of the package. Overhead camshafts necessitate a mssive cylinder head and makes for a much bigger engine. Ever wonder why the LSX is swapped into everything? Because it fits and makes more power than any comprable engine.

3. Car doesn't have "leaf springs in the rear" as you put it, it has composite transverse monoleafs front and rear and they're nothing at all like the leaf spring on a pickup truck other than they share the word leaf. They actually lower the center of gravity of the car. The only advantage of a coil-over suspension is the ability to swap spring rates more easily at varying race tracks. Last I checked your average car guy, even HPDE guy doesn't change spring rates for varying track conditions.

But I see you adhere he common misunderstandings in the automotive world that DOHC > OHV and coil-springs > monoleafs :beer:

Oh... and the C5 Z06 ran a sub 8 minute time at the Nurburgring back in 2004 and the ZR1 is in 2nd place for a production car record... 2nd to the Viper ACR which also uses a, gasp, archaic pushrod engine :thumbup:

Hiball · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
I'll eventually find on that fits my needs... it's just about value perception. I mean I look at a brand new box some mechs use adn I don't see something worth $8000 bucks... It's just metal parts formed up and painted... not a whole lot of technology/production costs in a toolbox. Wonder what the markup is on something like that... I mean how much of what you're paying for is the name recognition?

There is ALOT more that goes into a quality tool box than just forming up some metal and slapping some paint on it, I gave you some of those reasons in a earlier response. There is Years\ of changes based on customer feedback on areas that needed some extra attention or Customer Needs and Wants. I have never purchased a Brand New toolbox but i have a couple older ones that are as stout as the day they rolled off the line i would bet. Its personal preference do you want to buy a toolbox every few years after repeated use or do you want to make a investment today. Im not saying Snap on is the only way to go, There are numerous quality toolbox companies out there and Most are reviewed on this site daily.

Hiball · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
Well then you're ignorant beyond debate on the merrits of the car... the only thing I remotely agree with is the interior materials used (not design/ergonomics) and that was vastly improved with the C6 platform.

A few facts about the platform -

1. Body work is SMC (sheet molding compound) other than the urethane bumpers. The car isn't "plastic" like a Saturn.

2. The LSX V8 is the most efficient V8 on the planet when you look at horsepower per volume... i.e. the overall size of the package. Overhead camshafts necessitate a mssive cylinder head and makes for a much bigger engine. Ever wonder why the LSX is swapped into everything? Because it fits and makes more power than any comprable engine.

3. Car doesn't have "leaf springs in the rear" as you put it, it has composite transverse monoleafs front and rear and they're nothing at all like the leaf spring on a pickup truck other than they share the word leaf. They actually lower the center of gravity of the car. The only advantage of a coil-over suspension is the ability to swap spring rates more easily at varying race tracks. Last I checked your average car guy, even HPDE guy doesn't change spring rates for varying track conditions.

But I see you adhere he common misunderstandings in the automotive world that DOHC > OHV and coil-springs > monoleafs

Oh... and the C5 Z06 ran a sub 8 minute time at the Nurburgring back in 2004 and the ZR1 is in 2nd place for a production car record... 2nd to the Viper ACR which also uses a, gasp, archaic pushrod engine

Wow calling someone ingnorant because they dont like Corvettes? What are you 12? Moose struck a nerve without a doubt... :lol_hitti

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Hiball said:
There is ALOT more that goes into a quality tool box than just forming up some metal and slapping some paint on it, I gave you some of those reasons in a earlier response. There is Years\ of changes based on customer feedback on areas that needed some extra attention or Customer Needs and Wants. I have never purchased a Brand New toolbox but i have a couple older ones that are as stout as the day they rolled off the line i would bet. Its personal preference do you want to buy a toolbox every few years after repeated use or do you want to make a investment today. Im not saying Snap on is the only way to go, There are numerous quality toolbox companies out there and Most are reviewed on this site daily.

I did read your post earlier... just didn't respond to it. Makes sense to me if you use the thing all the time everyday. I understand why a pro needs something like that.

I guess I should have focused my thread on average weekend wrenchers :beer:

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Hiball said:
Wow calling someone ingnorant because they dont like Corvettes? What are you 12? Moose struck a nerve without a doubt...

Well if you look up the definition of ignorant it's forming opinions without full information.

ignorant -
–adjective

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.

3. uninformed; unaware.

4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

It's the common things people like to say about modern Corvettes w/o any firsthand knowledge of them.

Now if he said I don't like the sound of a large displacement V8, or I don't like the styling, sure... but generic, "It ***** because it has pushrods and leafsprings and is made of plastic" is ignorant and unfounded in reality :beer:

Hiball · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
Well if you look up the definition of ignorant it's forming opinions without full information.

It's the common things people like to say about modern Corvettes w/o any firsthand knowledge of them.

Now if he said I don't like the sound of a large displacement V8, or I don't like the styling, sure... but generic, "It ***** because it has pushrods and leafsprings and is made of plastic" is ignorant and unfounded in reality

Yeah they say the same thing about people who make assumptions about $8000 dollar toolboxes without any firsthand knowledge of them.

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Believe it or not, i know about the LSX engines, the leaf spring suspension and the composite bodywork. What you completely missed was that i said i didn't think the car was worth the money. Much the same that you don't see how a Snap-on box is worth the money. I know the other details, i wasn't talking about the intricacies but the overall cost compared to what you get.

It may lap the ring in under 8 mins, they may handle well, they may go fast, some run 10s in the quarter with just a set of slicks. That isn't the point. The point is that what you get doesn't seem to be worth what you pay.

This is no different to a Snap-on toolbox. It may look nice, hold all your tools, last for years, etc. Other boxes do the same for less money.

If a car is solely to get your from A to B, a $500 shitbox will do the same as a $50,000 Corvette. The Corvette will do certain things differently. As will a Snap-on box compared to a cheap one. A cheap one may buckle drawers under load. Slides may fail with lots of weight in the drawers. Etcetera, etcetra. Whereas a Snap-on one can handle more.

And by the way, i'm not "ignorant beyond debate". I'm an *******. Learn to recognise the difference. :thumbup:

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Hiball said:
Yeah they say the same thing about people who make assumptions about $8000 dollar toolboxes without any firsthand knowledge of them.

I'm the first to admit that I'm ignorant about $8000 toolboxes... but I have been around the auto industry my entire life and have seen lots of boxes in my time around body shops and service shops.

Put it like this... it all comes down to use. Since we're on the sportscar theme... if all I do is communte in traffic to work a geo metro does the job just as good (maybe better in some aspects) than a Porsche GT2.

If I'm racing at Road Atlanta... well then that $200,000 GT2 just made a whole lot more sense. Why? Well becuase I'm using it's advantages.

Me... I use a toolbox to store my tools that I use a few times a month depending on what I'm doing around the hosue and w/ the cars... I'm not in the "race" situation like a pro wrench turner.

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Moose-LandTran said:
And by the way, i'm not "ignorant beyond debate". I'm an *******. Learn to recognise the difference.

Well then I see we'll get along quite well then :lol_hitti

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
Now if he said I don't like the sound of a large displacement V8, or I don't like the styling, sure... but generic, "It ***** because it has pushrods and leafsprings and is made of plastic" is ignorant and unfounded in reality

When did i say "It ***** because it has pushrods and leafsprings and is made of plastic"? Please point it out as i can't see it.

Oh wait, here is what i said:

Moose-LandTran said:
Plastic bodywork, pushrod engines, transverse single-leaf rear suspension, somewhat crappy interiors, etc. For what they cost, i don't see it as worth the money.

I never said any of that stuff was inferior.

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Moose-LandTran said:
I never said any of that stuff was inferior.

Well I'd go so far as to say the context of the statement insinuates that that was your feeling.

If you didn't feel that those items were inferior why would you use them to justify your feeling of "not worth the money"?

i.e would a car of similar cost with a DOHC motor, metal panels, and coil spring suspension be "worth it" a.k.a. a Porsche.

Hiball · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
Well I'd go so far as to say the context of the statement insinuates that that was your feeling.

If you didn't feel that those items were inferior why would you use them to justify your feeling of "not worth the money"?

Im not trying to gang up on you, but you did the same thing in your initial post

Cobra4B said:
I'm shopping for a roll-around type tool chest/cart and was looking at a Mac one locally on CL where the guy is asking $800. Found nearly the exact same thing for $50, but it's a Cman brand and not as pretty.

You compared a Mac toolbox to a $50 dollar CMan. How bout we just agree that nobody is ignorant and My taste in quality and what stuff is worth is different than yours?

shovel · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
What does "KRL" mean?

Not big enough And not driving to Florida for a toolbox

KRL is Snap On code for $10,000! :bounce:

Cobra4B · Dec 11, 2009

Hiball said:
Im not trying to gang up on you, but you did the same thing in your initial post

You compared a Mac toolbox to a $50 dollar CMan. How bout we just agree that nobody is ignorant and My taste in quality and what stuff is worth is different than yours?

Well Moose's follow-up post shows that he may have some knowledge about the cars afterall, but still doesn't explain why he was using those things to illustrate his feeling that it's "not worth the money".

I mean I wouldn't describe positive attributes or even neutral attributes about an item to explain why it's inferior.

Now if he simply said, "Sportscars aren't worth the money because the only thing I value in a automobile is transportation and fuel economy." then that'd be a spot on valid statement.

Much like the fact that I only use my toolboxes for garage storage of my tools and sporadic use so I don't value the longevity that comes from the quality construction on a $8000 toolbox.

shovel said:
KRL is Snap On code for $10,000!

Thanks for the knowledge! Someone show me a $10k box for < $2k and I'll buy it

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
Well I'd go so far as to say the context of the statement insinuates that that was your feeling.

If you didn't feel that those items were inferior why would you use them to justify your feeling of "not worth the money"?

i.e would a car of similar cost with a DOHC motor, metal panels, and coil spring suspension be "worth it" a.k.a. a Porsche.

I'm comparing manufacturing cost to retail price. Think of it as profit margin.

What you're saying is: I can get a box i want for $800. But that's too much, so a $50 one will do the job just fine. But you ask about justifying it. I'm using the Corvette as my example because you have one. I can ask you how you justify it. You could drive to work in a $500 S-10 and it would do the same job as driving there in your 'Vette.

Same as you can ask how i justify my Snap-on toolbox. (which is just because i want one. And since i bought it with my money it really isn't anyone else's business how i can justify it.)

You're right though, although i didn't say they were inferior, i do think they are. I know they have their benefits, weight reduction and such. But there are other things out there that cost more and do the job better, that's certainly true. But that is entirely besides the point. The fact is that i said i didn't think it was worth the money. Not that it was inferior. That is completely besides the point though.

If i'm spending Corvette money, i want to feel that i'm getting what i pay for. If i'm spending $60,000 on a sports car i want a V8 with four cams, variable cam timing, 4 (or 5 if it's an Audi) valves per cylinder. Independant suspension all-round. A nice stitched leather interior. I want a nice dash with quality buttons and switches etc. I've been in a C6 and didn't feel that at all.

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Cobra4B said:
Well Moose's follow-up post shows that he may have some knowledge about the cars afterall, but still doesn't explain why he was using those things to illustrate his feeling that it's "not worth the money".

OH **** SON.

A mechanic that knows about cars? Who'd a' thunk it?

toolfreak · Dec 11, 2009

I have Snap on and a cornwell box and an overpriced snap on roll cart. Do I think they are worth the money? Of course I do or I wouldn't have bought them. There is no comparison between the two, go price a heavy duty set of slides that are comparable weight limit to the snap on's and you will spend alot of money on just the slides used to make the high end boxes.

As far as corvettes, I think they are a nice car but unless you go with a z06 they aren't all that. I would be happy to line up my mustang with a vette anyday and I still have less money in mine than a corvette even with all the mods I have done.

Moose-LandTran · Dec 11, 2009

Hiball said:
Moose struck a nerve without a doubt...

Yeah, just a bit..

Just can't see buying a SnapOn type toolbox...

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