Lets see your FIRE EXTINGUISHERS

sirsloop · Apr 14, 2010

Anyone involved with a Fire Department/Fire Marshall have any input on what size, what type, and what quantity should be in "X" area?

Everyone posts up new toys and projects they are working on. I think one majorly overlooked item in a garage is fire safety equipment. Out of all the rooms in a home, the garage (should!) have the most flammable stuff in it. As I talk to my friends NOBODY has given a second thought to extinguishers or detectors. They are too busy buying socket sets, new welders, and lifts.

There's gasoline, kerosene, diesel, aerosol solvents, liquid solvents, oil, propane, natural gas, wood, workbenches, insulation. Plenty of ignition sources like hot cars, lawn mowers, string trimmers, welders, grinders, propane/mapp/oxy torches, batteries, water heater. You name it, it can easily catch on fire in there. Lots of us have attached garages... which means your entire house could burn to the ground!!

I just mounted up two small extinguishers, one on each opposing wall. I'm not sure if that's even enough?! Come to think of it, I don't even have a smoke detector or a carbon monoxide detector in the garage!!!!

Above the workbench on the slatwall... and another directly behind me in between the drive bays. I'll have to check out what type they are too.

Jack Olsen · Apr 14, 2010

I've got three. One in the back, by the main bench. One by the entrance door. One on the other side, by where I weld. They're all ABC. Hope I never have to use them.

I've thought about a heat sensing fire alarm. If anyone's got a cheap path to setting this up, I'm all ears.

Crusty Nut · Apr 14, 2010

I'm happy to see you thinking about it. The one in that picture is really too small to be of much use. They are best put in a car where space is a factor.

The standard rule of thumb in any commercial business (at least in California) is a 2 A, 10 BC rated extinguisher every 75 feet of travel distance. That size is usually known as a 5# extinguisher. The rating can be found in the small print on the label.
The one you have is probably a 1 A, 5 BC. Also known as a 2.5#.

The 75 ft travel distance is from one can to another. Down a hall, around the shelf, whatever path you follow while walking. This is a legal minimum. More is always better and at certain workstations is a good idea. Like maybe one in your welding area, one near the solvent tank, ect.

I have a dry chem ABC can and also a water can (only good for type A fires) These are nice to have around because there is no messy clean up, can be recharged at home and also make a bitchin weapon in a water fight.

The other thing is to get all extinguishers periodically serviced. A local company can do this for you for not much money. It fluffs up the powder and ensures it will work when you need it. A business has to service theirs every year, but a home owner can easily do it every 5 years and be okay.

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but have been a professional fireman for quite a long time.

OldCarGuy · Apr 14, 2010

Besides having at least two heat sensors in each of my five garages tied into an alarm company. I have a total of Twelve 10-pound ABC fire extinguisher hung throughout my garages. One at each man door and garage door. I have an addition ones located in the higher-risk area of my TIG welder and EDM Machine. Along with a 5-pound extinguisher mounted to my rolling tool cabinet and welding tank card.

I also never leave home without them. As a 10-pound ABC extinguisher mounted in my motor home and enclosed car hauler. Along with a 2 1/2-pound ABC extinguisher mounted each of my antique cars.
High quality refillable ABC dry powder fire extinguishers are the way to go and the larger the better. The smaller ones are only effective for a few seconds and recommend purchasing at least 5-pound or even 10-pound extinguishers. And don't rely on just one unit. Instead, buy several, and make sure they've got enough capacity to offer real protection. Remember that the ABC extinguisher may leave a mess when used; but it leaves far less damage than an out of control fire could do.

I place a fire extinguisher sign indicating there location...

Auzivision · Apr 14, 2010

Not sure what kind I have in the garage, but I sure hope I never have to use it.

Also have a Halon in my Porsche that I hope never gets used.

Professur · Apr 14, 2010

10lbs CO2. Also doubles as my backup, emergency welding tank.

jeepjunky · Apr 14, 2010

Being a Union FF. Ive felt pretty bad that I didnt have one in my garage/shop. So Ive been wanting to get one for awhile. Then during my river jeep rebuild my wife asked if I had one...Still no...2 weeks later Jeep carb overflowed gas (a-lot) onto hot headers....I now have a fire extingusher. I have a 5lb. Good post idea

Teken · Apr 14, 2010

I have 6 of these coming this summer for the garage. Another ten will be installed in the basement when the reno's are completed down stairs . . .

BetterDays · Apr 14, 2010

I have 5 in the garage.

3 larger ones (I think 10#): near the entry door, on the back wall, opposite side of the garage door.
2 smaller ones (2 or 5#?): above the bench and on the opposite wall.

(EDIT: 2 smaller ones mounted, 1 smaller one in a box)

Teken · Apr 14, 2010

Jack Olsen said:
I've thought about a heat sensing fire alarm. If anyone's got a cheap path to setting this up, I'm all ears.

Jack,

I installed this similar unit with out the talking feature. Allows you install multiple units with out wires, and enables you to have extra coverage in remote area's where wiring is difficult or near impossible.

I purchased 8 of them to compliment the three hard wired one's in my home for area's I felt required more coverage or sensing.

Here is a link to Costco with the talking one:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=8&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

Jack Olsen · Apr 14, 2010

Those are smoke alarms, right? I can't use smoke alarms in the garage, since welding will trigger them. I'm looking for heat alarms -- which I don't know much about, but think would work better.

BioHazard · Apr 14, 2010

I keep a 5 pounder by the door and another in the back near the wood stove, scattered throughout there are several more smaller extinguishers. I like to keep a smaller one next to everything flammable, like my shelf of paint thinner and other solvents. There's pretty much always one within 5 seconds reach.

I also keep one of those self coiling water hoses with a sprayer nozzle hooked up and ready to go in the corner, especially when I've got the stove burning.

PS - did you know it's considered disrespectful to use the flag as a ceiling covering?

Charles (in GA) · Apr 14, 2010

Previous post on fire extinguishers.

Pics of my fire extinguishers.

There is one more, I have a total of 3 extinguishers in a 60x60 building. One near a back door (back center of the building), one near a side door (mid way on one side) and up front on the opposite side, All are ten pound units. One was bought new at a annual MSC warehouse sale, the others were acquired used for virtually nothing, but have been checked by fire extinguisher inspectors. I occasionally turn them upside down and shake them to keep the powder loosened up.

I have a dirt dauber/mud wasp problem, so I have plastic caps pushed over the nozzles. They don't fit tight, just enough to stay on and will blow off at the slightest pressure in the hose, but they keep the mud daubers out of the hoses. This is something to be concerned about.

I have signs mounted way high up so you can see them over cars, equipment, etc in the shop. Don't want to be hunting for an extinguisher when you need it.

Charles

Teken · Apr 14, 2010

I don't believe that is the members intent to be honest. It comes across as the flag is so massive there is no other place to display it. Secondly, the home is awash with country as first only second to family . . . That's my $0.000000000000000002

sirsloop · Apr 14, 2010

BioHazard said:
PS - did you know it's considered disrespectful to use the flag as a ceiling covering?

Yes I know its not proper flag protocol to have a flag attached to a ceiling like that. I don't have it there hiding or covering anything on the ceiling. Its not like i'm using it as a drape or some other item (sheet, towel, etc). Its not my intent to disrespect the flag, but at the same time that's how I want to display it in my garage. Its not like I'm putting a flag pole in my garage, and if I hung it properly from the side straight down, it would likely be down to almost the floor. Its 6x10!! Also up there, it stays away from the work area, hopefully no splatter, dirt, etc, will get up on it there. You should have seen my trying to install the thing without it touching the floor! HA!

At the olympics, nobody seems to care that all the athletes are using their flag as a cape when they win. Using a flag for clothing is a no no.

I actually looked up flag protocol before I hung it... there was mention of "noble intent". I think both these cases qualify. Just showin prideeee! Thanks for bringing it up though... some people may not even be aware that there is flag protocol, or understand proper handling and folding of flags. Its actually a little crazy that you buy flags folded improperly! Boy Scoutssss! HA

autoclassicnut · Apr 14, 2010

Why would that be disrespectful? I kinda like it... to each his own, at least it's clean and a good reminder of his patriotism.

TheShrine · Apr 14, 2010

5 of these....

BioHazard · Apr 14, 2010

autoclassicnut said:
Why would that be disrespectful? I kinda like it... to each his own, at least it's clean and a good reminder of his patriotism.

Honestly I don't know, just part of the federal flag rules or whatever they call it. Obviously it's not a law just guidlines to follow. There really are quite a lot of "rules"! I wish they would add to that "no American flags may be imported from China". :lol_hitti

I totally agree about the clothing thing, especially ridiculous when it's some old fat guy in a flag speed-o. :shocking:

R-132 Fan · Apr 14, 2010

Fire extinguishers need to be serviced periodically. I have a fifteen pound Kidde ABC fire extinguisher in my carport/shop. Last week I decided to turn in on it's side and pound it to shake the powder loose as I have read elsewhere on the internet. I was walloping away at it with a rubber mallet when I heard a hissing sound. I had knocked the saftey pin out and opened the valve partway accidentially. I figured it needed recharging anyway after this, so I put it upright and opened the valve all the way. Nothing came out! I shook it, banged it against the bench and still nothing. The pressure guage read in the green zone when I took it off the wall and I thought I had fire protection.
I'm thankful I discovered it was inoperative when I didn't need it. I will be having it serviced the next time I go to town.
I store my gas cans inside an old truck out away from my toolshed. My opinion is the best thing you can do is get the flammables out of the garage if at all possible. That will help a small fire stay small longer if you do have an incident.

sirsloop · Apr 15, 2010

Yeah.. I keep all my gas and kerosene in my 10x12 out back. Keeps the place smelling nicer too!

Lhorn · Apr 15, 2010

On a related subject, how do you make sure your extinguishers are gonna be ready when you need them? How do you know when they need servicing and who does this or is it just cheaper to buy new ones?
Thanks

fireguy · Apr 15, 2010

According to a report in the Gated Wye, a publication of the State of Oregon FM office, approximatly 93 % of fires reported to the FD are put out or controlled by portable fire extinguishers. However, most fires are never reported to the FD.

I think I may have more extinguishers in my shop than anyone else, around 125 or so at present. But, we sell and service fire extinguishers as part of our business. We also install fire alarms, fire suppression systems (UL300, dry, clean agent) , commercial kitchen exhaust systems, clean exhaust systems, and service and repair sprinkler systems. I am a member of several professional orgs, and a founding board member of Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors. I also have 20+ years as a fire fighter, including time as Asst Chief and Training Officer. If you go to http://www.ourfallenbrother.org/sponsors.html you will see one of the orgs I sponser, but wish I never had to opportunity to do so.

End of commercial and rant. Now it is time to upset some of those who have posted above.

Sirsloop, I do not see a fire extinguisher in your shop. I see a POS red thing that cannot be depoended upon. The fire extinguisher is too small, get a 10 # ABC. And move it from behind the workbench. Maybe by the shop exit, if it is not in the flow of traffic

Theshrine, same thing. You have an expensive car there, it deserves more than the POS on the wall. And take that cord/rope or whatever is wrapped around the fire extinguisher.

Auzivisoin, you bought what is probably the best extinguisher available, an Amerex Model 441. The valve is chrome plated brass, not aluminum or plastic. Please move it from the obstruction.

Old Car Guy, make sure the Pem All 10 # ABC by the welder is not obstructed by the bench.

Crusty Nut wrote a good post. Except I do not agree about the 2.5 or smaller fx being good to carry in the car. I am sure you have arrived on scene and found several 2.5 # FX on the ground around a car fire and did not even completly discharge a 20 # cartridge FX and put out the fire.

Charles (in GA), I like the fact you have an ABC Badger FX in the shop. Very good placement, that FX is not likely to be obstructed and will be available for use. Please remove one of the tamper seals. The Flag FX gauge is obstructed by the service tag. Hang the tag from the gauge, not the ull pin or handle. Putting the signs up high is a very good idea. While you know where the FX is, visitors do not.

R132, the Kidde extinguisher is not my favorite brand. We will not recharge the Kidde. Your FX probably has a plastic valve assembly. They are known for leakage. The gauge is sealed with an O'ring, most FX gauges have pipe thread. Amerex puts an epoxy on the threads which lessens the chance of leakage. just another reason I like the Amerex products. When you beat on that FX, you may have broken the plastic siphon tube. The manufactures tell us not beat on the FX, and have for several years. Shake the FX if you must, but no more hammers. Moving the Class A Flambles out of the shop is good idea. Keeping the propane tanks out of the shop is also a good idea.

Off topic, but any flame producing appliances, such as wood stoves and water heaters need to be 18" off the floor. While none of us ever use gas for parts cleaning, sometimes we spill gas or work on something with a fuel leak. That day you will be glad you have a working FX close by.

For those who have a fire extinguisher in the shop, I sincerly hope you never have to use it.

Teken · Apr 15, 2010

I always appreciate your insight and follow up! Many thanks . . . :thumbup:

polo2k · Apr 15, 2010

this is definatly something I need to invest in. at the moment my make shift solution is a waist high bottle of CO2 that I use for welding is kept by the door, if there is a fire the plan is to do my best to tackle it with what is at hand and then if that fails open the cylinder and either try to point it in the right direction, or just crack open the valve, get out, shut the door and hope there is enough CO2 to purge the garage (only a single)

really need to have a good look into that

GTO · Apr 15, 2010

I have three Amerex 10 pounders and on large water canister w/schrader valve.
I also have signs indicating where they are.
My garage is only 615 sq.ft.

sirsloop · Apr 15, 2010

see... exactly the kinda post we all needed. I had a pretty good feeling the ones I had were way under sized and now we all know whats up! Thanks!

A29 · Apr 15, 2010

keep mine just outside of the door to my garage. Easy to get to.

wineslob · Apr 15, 2010

Lhorn said:
On a related subject, how do you make sure your extinguishers are gonna be ready when you need them? How do you know when they need servicing and who does this or is it just cheaper to buy new ones?
Thanks

ABC extinguishers should be inspected every month. Check the pressure guage, making sure it's in the "green zone".
Extinguishers should be serviced once a year.

Flathead Youngin' · Apr 15, 2010

good thread.....

i've always bought mine at wally world, etc......i've always wondered how much more $$ it would cost to go to our local guy and get some "real" extinguishers or whether it's even worth it or not....

some of mine are going on 10 years old or maybe even older....they are in the green but i still question their viability if i would TRULY need them.....

i pulled one of the older smaller ones and used it just to see if it would work a few years ago....still worked.......but i'm still untrusting.....

are the ones like in a public building THAT much better? i know they'll put out larger fires....what about shelf life?

VC-Racing · Apr 15, 2010

I shake all my dry extinguishers once a month to keep the powder from settling. All my water extinguishers get test fired and re-pressurized if needed once monthly and every 6 months, I run then completely down , refill with water ,add a lil bit of aqueous foam concentrate and charge with air.

Jack Olsen · Apr 15, 2010

Thought I was fine with a 5#, an 8#, and a 10#. But they're all Kidde.

I just ordered a 10# Amerex -- and also a hardwired heat alarm.

bent valves · Apr 15, 2010

I wish I could find a quality fire extinguisher with a metal valve. The big box stores sell cheap plastic valved extinguishers. I have already broken two just hanging them up. Anyone have any ideas? The phone book in my area was no help.

jkeyser14 · Apr 15, 2010

I just wanted to also say make sure you have at least two fire extinguishers. I was in a shop once when someone had to use an extinguisher to put out a fire started from welding spatter. The first extinguisher they grabbed didn't shoot anything out. Thankfully there were 4 or 5 in the shop and the next one grabbed worked.

The defective unit's pressure gauge was showing in the green. The person wound up easily unscrewing the top from the fire extinguisher by hand to find there was no pressure inside and that the gauge was stuck.

Steve from Socal · Apr 15, 2010

I have 3 Amerex 10 and 2 - 5 pounders; what is a realistic recharge interval for a residential setting. We used to have these done every year but, since they are home now it has been several years.

Steve

kf4zht · Apr 15, 2010

I was a firefighter through college, so I will put my 2 cents in. I also do metal fab so small shop fires are not a rare occurrence.

There are 3 basic types of extinguishers for shops
1. Dry Chem - This is your basic ABC. Cheap to buy, easy to find.
2. CO2 - Heavier, expensive to buy, cheap to fill
3. Water/Foam - Similar to CO2, fillable at home, somewhat expensive.

Everyone and their mother runs out and buys a 10# Dry chem and thinks they are covered. I have put out less fires with these than anything else. They are great for some things, such as electical. But the make a huge mess, are expensive to get refilled, and of you buy one of the plastic topped ones you might as well throw it at the fire, they break all the time (no way to check but use it) The car ones are completely friggen useless.

CO2 is great for trash can fires, general small grease rag fires, etc. Cheap to fill and you get alot of putting out power out of one. They are heavier, but typically have a hose long enough to set the tank down and still get the bell in a garbage can.

Water/Foam - My other favorite types. Water is amazing. You can fill it with a hose and a compressor and you get alot of time and great accuracy. This works best for wood fires. Add a slightly different nozzle and a jug of AFFF or Fire-aide and you get foam. Now it does great on wood, or oil or pretty much anything.

Both the CO2 and Foam are far easier to salvage whatever caught on fire. Dry chem gets everywhere (had 2 of them go off in my vehicles, trust me). I like to keep a large co2, a water and 2 dry chems around. The CO2 and water are first, unless it is an electrical fire. The others easily handle anything.

shopnut · Apr 15, 2010

This is one of mine...

I worry quite a bit about a fire - way too much time invested in this place to see it go up in smoke. An insurance check could never replace it, no matter how fat it was.

I do try to keep all the combustibles in my 12x20 yard equipment shed and that makes me feel a little better. I know it's not enough, however.

Good thread.

mdbeck1 · Apr 15, 2010

sirsloop said:
Yes I know its not proper flag protocol to have a flag attached to a ceiling like that. I don't have it there hiding or covering anything on the ceiling. Its not like i'm using it as a drape or some other item (sheet, towel, etc). Its not my intent to disrespect the flag, but at the same time that's how I want to display it in my garage. Its not like I'm putting a flag pole in my garage, and if I hung it properly from the side straight down, it would likely be down to almost the floor. Its 6x10!! Also up there, it stays away from the work area, hopefully no splatter, dirt, etc, will get up on it there. You should have seen my trying to install the thing without it touching the floor! HA!

At the olympics, nobody seems to care that all the athletes are using their flag as a cape when they win. Using a flag for clothing is a no no.

I actually looked up flag protocol before I hung it... there was mention of "noble intent". I think both these cases qualify. Just showin prideeee! Thanks for bringing it up though... some people may not even be aware that there is flag protocol, or understand proper handling and folding of flags. Its actually a little crazy that you buy flags folded improperly! Boy Scoutssss! HA

Yes Boy Scouts. I'm not going to say that we know and follow all the rules of etiquette but we try. This one is being prepared to be retired.

Additional information:
http://www.veteransinfo.net/Main page/flag etiquette.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_4_of_the_United_States_Code

Exerpts:
(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost
and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag
should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the
street.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not
be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise
impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch
may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic
organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore,
the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be
destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

I found this interesting quote as well:
there is no penalty for a private citizen or group failing to comply with the Flag Code and it is not widely enforced—indeed, punitive enforcement would conflict with the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#Flag_etiquette).

Flathead Youngin' · Apr 15, 2010

hey, man, don't worry about justifying how you are displaying your flag....99% of us here knew your intentions weren't to disgrace the flag...

now, if someone were burning it, i'd have a problem......but that's a whole other can of worms, not for the fire extinguisher thread......

i think it looks great and i'd like to have something displayed like that in my garage.....especially the flag i have from brother-in-law that went on a mission in iraq in an A10 warthog to drop bombs on the bad guys...i think they even flew it over one of the bases for a day......

mdbeck1 said:
Yes Boy Scouts. I'm not going to say that we know and follow all the rules of etiquette but we try. This one is being prepared to be retired.
.

mdbeck1 · Apr 15, 2010

Flathead Youngin' said:
hey, man, don't worry about justifying how you are displaying your flag....99% of us here knew your intentions weren't to disgrace the flag...

now, if someone were burning it, i'd have a problem......but that's a whole other can of worms, not for the fire extinguisher thread......

i think it looks great and i'd like to have something displayed like that in my garage.....especially the flag i have from brother-in-law that went on a mission in iraq in an A10 warthog to drop bombs on the bad guys...i think they even flew it over one of the bases for a day......

Hey! I wasn't trying to say anything bad or hurt anyone's feelings. I just wanted to help educate people. ...and show off the HUGE flag...

Flathead Youngin' · Apr 15, 2010

That's cool......the internet is hard to tell the intention of meaning...... :headscrat

sorry i called you out...... :twak:

but i'm sure someone was thinking it! :bounce:

mdbeck1 said:
Hey! I wasn't trying to say anything bad or hurt anyone's feelings. I just wanted to help educate people. ...and show off the HUGE flag...

Lets see your FIRE EXTINGUISHERS

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