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A Politically Incorrect Question about Tool History

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Bolster

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I'm sorry, I can't help myself. I shouldn't be wondering this, but I am.

I'm very curious about what tools the Nazis used to work on their war machines. We know that the USA used primarily Plomb, which was the largest provider of tools to the military during WWII. But what was Fritz, your basic Nazi mechanic, using on Panzers, Kubelwagens, and V-2s?

Did their tools have little hakenkreuzes on them? I know their silverware did, so what about tools?
 
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Bjkearns

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I dont see it as politically incorrect
I see political correctness as a joke

I see it as history
That is a great question
I couldnt imagine working on a King Tiger
It would be really interesting to see what each side used
Russia,Japan,Nazi's
 
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Stick Figure

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the tough part will be getting a company that is willing to admit that had anything to do with the war effort on that side of things. I think that could potentially ruin some sale for them. I know i don't see Mitsubishi advertising the Japanese Zero airplane trying to sell cars to the American public, and i doubt you will see that they had anything to do with it on their website either.
 
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Bjkearns

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fair enough the winner tells the history
but the loser's still have history, may it be, good or bad
 
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chopper1

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My thought is, find out who manufactures tools in Germany today and do a history on them. If they were making tools prior to 1933 or started production between '33 and the end of the war, the crooked cross would have been on the tools. They wouldn't have had a choice unless they were forced into making other products for the war effort.
 
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Adam McLaughlin

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That is a very good question. I do agree with the logic that says whomever was making tools during this time period probably made the tools used on those Wehrmacht devices. I have family whom served on that side of the conflict during that time, although I doubt any of them would recollect the details that you want to know.

Adam
 
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y20dth

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I remember (from reading some where, not from being there), that Schindler, Thyssen and Krupp were 3 of the bigger industrial suppliers during the Nazi-era. I also remember companies like Krupp would produce a wide assortment of products. However I do not know anything specific about tools. Very interesting question still.
 
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tonydanzah

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y20dth said:
I remember (from reading some where, not from being there), that Schindler, Thyssen and Krupp were 3 of the bigger industrial suppliers during the Nazi-era. I also remember companies like Krupp would produce a wide assortment of products. However I do not know anything specific about tools. Very interesting question still.
Click to expand...

Did Thyssen and Krupp make elevators back then as well?
 
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D9H 90V

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It would be interesting to know things like that, Not a bad question at all

Another good one is: do the chineese like to use tools made in china or would they rather use USA made tools,
 
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JC23

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I worked with an American company that used Krupp parts and remember reading that Krupp had a lot to do with creating stainless steel back then. Don't know if it was before or after the war, though.

Interesting read...
 
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trovato

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I had an online conversation years ago with a guy who had a DOWIDAT Whitworth wrench with swastikas on it. The story that went with it was that as Germany conquered England, they would need tools to work on captured equipment. Don't know if that is true, but I do still have the picture he sent me.

-Steve
 

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T56 Impala

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To add a little to the information:


Okay, here is what I know. A company named Lauravia was a French company that, among other things, made tools. I think they still do actually. After the fall of France, they continued to manufacture tools. I would guess that some of these were intended to be used by the Germany military. I have one Lauravia socket, stamped "A H" from that time period. I contacted the company about this marking but received only a rubber stamp response about how they did make tools at that time and confirmed the date of my socket. Nothing more.

Does "A H" stand for some one's name? Unknown. Lauravia did not go into detail about what it meant. Maybe a date mark? Your guess is as good as mine. What I do know is that it is made of some interesting stuff. It does NOT rust or tarnish. (It sat exposed to the elements for over 3 decades) It is NOT plated with anything that I can recognize. It barely scratches. It is somewhat lighter (unscientifically measured!) than a comprable US wartime or post war socket of the same size. It is SAE and not Metric or Whitworth.

Since you posted this, I will contact some one I know that restores WWII tanks. He has several German tanks from that era and may know something about tooling.
 
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y20dth

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trovato said:
I had an online conversation years ago with a guy who had a DOWIDAT Whitworth wrench with swastikas on it. The story that went with it was that as Germany conquered England, they would need tools to work on captured equipment. Don't know if that is true, but I do still have the picture he sent me.

-Steve
Click to expand...

The Dowidat brothers founded the Gedore tool company in 1919.
After a couple of years they got into a bit of an argument and went their separate ways. One continued the Gedore company, the other founded the Dowidat tool company.
 
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Okie Pete

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My Dad had a Uncle who worked at Cadillac garage in New York City . When he retired he and another Mechanic opened a Filling Station together. Hans his partner served as a foot solider for the German Army in WW2 . After the war he feed his family by working on cars . He and his family moved to the USA and he brought his wenches with him . Uncle Charlie said know one would touch Han's wenches because they had ******** molded on them.
 
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Monte

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Internet research showed that weapons but also equipment had a 3 digit letter code from 1940 on instead of a manufacturers name. So it will be difficult to tell who the "OEM" of the tools were, except if you have a book or can find a resource to find out. There is a book "German Military Letter Codes" which should give the answer. Most web pages are about weapons. For weapons here is a overview of manufacturers: click (scroll down)

Tools: i guess all manufacturers were involved and supplied tools or whatever they produced at that time. A company called "Eugen Zerver" (code "hdk") from the city of Remscheid who made rifles in WW2 for example, after the war they made locking pliers under the "Zerem" brand (see "Tools from the...." thread)
 
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y20dth

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Okie Pete said:
My Dad had a Uncle who worked at Cadillac garage in New York City . When he retired he and another Mechanic opened a Filling Station together. Hans his partner served as a foot solider for the German Army in WW2 . After the war he feed his family by working on cars . He and his family moved to the USA and he brought his wenches with him . Uncle Charlie said know one would touch Han's wenches because they had ******** molded on them.
Click to expand...

:lol_hitti
 
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mtkst19

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this is a good question that when i get time ill look into more. I think it is safe to say though that if you were a german company during ww2, you either produced for the regime or you were not in business. so if you survived ww2, you were making stuff the nazi regime wanted. Much like America, any usable factory to produce goods was.

krupp was one of the major players in steel for the germans and were pro-nazi even using slave labor.

gedore- found in 1919 by the 3 dowidat brothers. one died in 30's, one split after the war.

heyco was founded in 37. so i would assume they built tools seeing they have always been in w/ the german auto industry.

stahlwillie has been around since 1860's. so i think it is safe to say that they were in for both world wars.

deckel/maho would be big tooling companies.

facom, being french and ties to early aviation, i would think were used by the axis powers. hell, the fact they survived german occupation tells me that they were worth more alive than dead.

hilti was started in 41. early years were contract work from nazi germany making parts or equipment. hlti came from auto engineering background

wiha has been around from before ww2. although i dont know of much on their past.

bosch-- known for ties to auto, they were playing w/ tools too back in the day. They even bought junkers airplanes out in early 30's. the same junkers that you hear named on history channel when they do the airplanes of ww1/ww2

sandvik, being swede company but w/ huge steel ties, im sure had to get into this mix somehow. ironically, they used the ******** like a quality control stamp. ******** meant product was good. that was dropped during ww2 obviously and never brought back.
 
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Monte

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BTW: the pictured "Dowidat" wrench....... "Dowidat" was founded in 1949...... nice photoshop......... :(
 
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mtkst19

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got 5 minutes to check back on this thread.

Fein tools i would think figuring they have been around for over 100 yrs. they made a little bit of every thing

rahsol is another brand im thinking about that would have been ww2 vintage. rahsol was bought out by gedore in the 70's. funny is this has been on ebay for a while. description is lacking.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW2-ORIGINAL-GE...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a47eefbc9


the japanese side got me wondering. only jap tool brands of quality i know of are ashi, netsuren, and vessel. i dont know any history on them though.

i do agree on the dowidat wrench now that i looked at the picture. As dowidat was after ww2. so i cant see a ******** being used. I know it is illegal to have a ******** marking in germany since the end of ww2.

Actually, only ******** i have ever seen on a tool in person was an American company. Look for buffum tools.
 
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trovato

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Go to the archive and look for a thread called "British Standard" from 2-20-2006. You will find there on the second page a post by "mikeyr" of Santa Barbara, California telling the story I just repeated. He claims to have a set of these wrenches and he is the one who sent me that picture.

-Steve
 
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Bull

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The hakenkreuz on that Dowidat wrench looks highly suspect; not of the style that the Nazis used.

Personally, I do not believe that tools produced in Germany during the Nazi era would necessarily be made with the ******** on them.

We have some firearms collectors on here. Perhaps people with WWII era guns can comment on whether the ******** appears stamped anywhere? They are not tools, but what I am saying is that not everything made during this time had that symbol on it.
 
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A_Pmech

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Occasionally, one can find a high pressure cylinder with a ******** stamp in the neck. Most of these have been "closed in" to look like a 4-pane window, but some are still floating around as is. Of the three or four I've seen, all were Linde cylinders.

We brought them home by the ship load at the end of the war and many are still in service today.
 
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chopper1

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Bull said:
The hakenkreuz on that Dowidat wrench looks highly suspect; not of the style that the Nazis used.

Personally, I do not believe that tools produced in Germany during the Nazi era would necessarily be made with the ******** on them.

We have some firearms collectors on here. Perhaps people with WWII era guns can comment on whether the ******** appears stamped anywhere? They are not tools, but what I am saying is that not everything made during this time had that symbol on it.
Click to expand...

Bull,
Hand guns, PPK, Luger etc and rifles had each part stamped with the spread eagle with the wreath and ******** in it's talons. If memory serves me corrctly, each part also bore the serial number and the PPK grip had the eagle imbossed into it. I don't remember seeing any ******** only stampings but it's been about 40 years since I collected.
 
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Bull

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chopper1 said:
Bull,
Hand guns, PPK, Luger etc and rifles had each part stamped with the spread eagle with the wreath and ******** in it's talons. If memory serves me corrctly, each part also bore the serial number and the PPK grip had the eagle imbossed into it. I don't remember seeing any ******** only stampings but it's been about 40 years since I collected.
Click to expand...

This is great information, and it jogged my memory a bit. Because guns were manufactured for the military, they would have the eagle and ******** logo.

Tools, on the other hand, not being a military-specific genre of items, would not necessarily be stamped that way.
 
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chopper1

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Bull said:
Tools, on the other hand, not being a military-specific genre of items, would not necessarily be stamped that way.
Click to expand...

The eagle would only have been used on military equipment, i.e. uniform insignia, arm bands, belt buckles, mess kits, personal entrenchment tools,etc. Army, Navy and SS used the spread eagle, Air Force used the attacking eagle. Most anything that was party (NSDAP) or Reich related would have been the ********.
 
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mikeyr

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interesting thread, I was PM'd that this thread was going on.

I am not a tool person, I use tools to get the job done but I don't know their detailed history. I wish I still had those tools so I could take a picture to show you guys since nothing else will make you believe me. I had a 9mm Luger that I sold and the guy collected memorabilia, he offered me $40 for the 4 and I don't have them anymore. I think I paid $25 for the set of 5 and destroyed one, so I made money on the deal.

All I can relate is the story I was told when I purchased them at a Brit car swap meet, the guy I purchased them from said the Germans assumed that when they invaded the UK the UK factory workers would either hide or destroy their tools, the Germans made up BSF/Witworth tools to take with them into the UK so they could keep the machinery running and these were from that. I bought them to use not because of their history. I took the guy at his word and knowing the history of the ******** there is no way it would have been put on a tool in the 1950's, that would have got that company shut down in micro-seconds.

And to answer Bull's questions about weapons having ********'s on them, my Luger that I sold did not and neither does my current Luger, it has the stampings from the armory but the only ******** is the wings with it underneath. A quick scan of "Luger's at Random" does not show any either but I did not go page-by-page. I do have a youth knife with the ******** though.
 
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chopper1

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mikeyr said:
I do have a youth knife with the ******** though.
Click to expand...

Not counting officers 'dress' daggers, there were 3 daggers that were standard issue in the Reich. The Hitler Youth dagger had a ******** in a red and white diamond in the grip. The SS and SA daggers each had their respective insignia 'inlayed' in the center of the grip and the spread eagle near the top.
All officer 'dress' daggers and swords had the respective service eagle on the hilt except the police which were in the grip.

My apology to Bolster, because I think we got off track from the original qquestion, and hijacked his thread.
mike
 
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