A Politically Incorrect Question about Tool History

[mtkst19]

ok, i think i may have put the pieces together here on the dowidat wrench. this in my eyes makes the most logical sense.

the ******** is commonly used symbol in india. india has ties to england. england likes whitworth. original poster mentioned his wrenches were whitworth.

take all that info and look into the history of "everest" tools. http://www.britishfasteners.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BTF&Category_Code=431

"The COMPANY
The Company was incorporated in 1962 in the name of Hindustan Dowidat Tools Ltd., in collaboration with Dowidat Werke Wille Dowidat of Federal Republic of Germany and has been engaged in the manufacture and export of high quality Hand Tools.
In 1974, the Company changed its name to Hindustan Everest Tools Ltd., until then, the Company was marketing its products in 'Dowidat' brand. Ever since, the Company's products are being marketed both in India and abroad in 'EVEREST' brand.
Today, the Company's manufacturing facilities are the most modern of its kind having one of the largest capacity manufacturing the widest range of Hand Tools in the country.


i'd put my money on the above pictured dowidat is a hindu made wrench. before it was apparent that they made a marketing mistake. b/c in india, the ******** is a good sign.

 

[Bull]

This sounds like a very plausible explanation; more likely, in my mind, than the wrench being part of an invasion preparation.

Nice work.

ok, i think i may have put the pieces together here on the dowidat wrench. this in my eyes makes the most logical sense.

the ******** is commonly used symbol in india. india has ties to england. england likes whitworth. original poster mentioned his wrenches were whitworth.

take all that info and look into the history of "everest" tools. http://www.britishfasteners.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BTF&Category_Code=431

"The COMPANY
The Company was incorporated in 1962 in the name of Hindustan Dowidat Tools Ltd., in collaboration with Dowidat Werke Wille Dowidat of Federal Republic of Germany and has been engaged in the manufacture and export of high quality Hand Tools.
In 1974, the Company changed its name to Hindustan Everest Tools Ltd., until then, the Company was marketing its products in 'Dowidat' brand. Ever since, the Company's products are being marketed both in India and abroad in 'EVEREST' brand.
Today, the Company's manufacturing facilities are the most modern of its kind having one of the largest capacity manufacturing the widest range of Hand Tools in the country.


i'd put my money on the above pictured dowidat is a hindu made wrench. before it was apparent that they made a marketing mistake. b/c in india, the ******** is a good sign.

 

[Lump]

I have some WWII German stuff. I'll take some pix in a day or two, when my life slows down. Keep in mind that the symbol mentioned earlier with the wings and ******** on many military items was a "waffennampt", which is merely a stamp of inspection by the military for acceptance. But there were many different inspection symbols, some with and some without the ********. I have several books on this stuff. But also keep in mind that Germany, like every other country, was producing LOTS of tools, only some of which were intended for military consumption, until WWII actually got started. Also, don't forget that not everyone in Germany was an actual member of the Nazi party, including tool manufacturers. Many people were loyal German citizens and fought for their country, without fully believing in all the Nazi propaganda.

 

[mkdive]

OT I know but,

I found an old stove in a basement of a downtown building I was renovating in San Fransisco. The gas valves all had swastikas on them. It was a green porcelain gas/wood stove. Damn thing looked brand new. Bet it was worth a few bucks.

 

[oldtools]

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Hilti-AG-Company-History.html

"......Hilti's support for the Nazi government helped the company win contracts in Germany, and the company, Maschinenbau Hilti OHG, quickly grew to more than 100 employees. While at first the company manufactured products based on other designs, the Hiltis became interested in developing their own product designs. With the collapse of the Nazi government, the Hiltis were forced to find new markets......"

 

[doctorschmullus]

Stahlwille was founded in the 1800's and today prides itself on aerospace tools, so safe guess would be thats what the germans were using.

 

[Bolster]

I have some WWII German stuff. I'll take some pix in a day or two, when my life slows down. Keep in mind that the symbol mentioned earlier with the wings and ******** on many military items was a "waffennampt", which is merely a stamp of inspection by the military for acceptance. But there were many different inspection symbols, some with and some without the ********. I have several books on this stuff. But also keep in mind that Germany, like every other country, was producing LOTS of tools, only some of which were intended for military consumption, until WWII actually got started. Also, don't forget that not everyone in Germany was an actual member of the Nazi party, including tool manufacturers. Many people were loyal German citizens and fought for their country, without fully believing in all the Nazi propaganda.

Good caveat, bears repeating.

So, you have seen tools marked with waffenamt? Would love to see a photo.

 

[Graham08]

Occasionally, one can find a high pressure cylinder with a ******** stamp in the neck. Most of these have been "closed in" to look like a 4-pane window, but some are still floating around as is. Of the three or four I've seen, all were Linde cylinders.

We brought them home by the ship load at the end of the war and many are still in service today.

Ditto this. I've had a couple of very old cylinders pass through my shop with the ******** stamp, date coded in the 30's.

 

[Bolster]

Dredging up this thread, to see if any of the posters were able to find their marked tools...or any other WWII toolage from the Axis powers...

Off topic a bit: Happened to find Hitler's original drawing of the "punch buggy" volkswagen bug. It's recognizable as a bug, dontcha think? Always makes me laugh when I see a hippie driving a fuhrerwagen... although on reflection, I suppose a lot of hippies are big-government socialist-fascists, when it comes down to it.

Looks like Der Fuhrer put the engine in the back, doesn't it? Air vents in the back, no radiator in the front? But he pulled a Picasso on that right front fender...

 

[Bolster]

This thread generated a lot of interest but no photos.

Thankfully Monte posted a photo of WWII vintage bolt cutters here:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28952&page=143

 

[londonsteve]

My father worked at a large lead and copper cable company who after the war bought hundreds of tons of machinery back from Germany including large smelters, lead press's and cases of small tooling including wrenchs most of these were made by Krupps and Thyssen and were not very refined. I remember as a kid that we had a few of the wooden cases which all had German army marking.

 

[Bolster]

My father worked at a large lead and copper cable company who after the war bought hundreds of tons of machinery back from Germany including large smelters, lead press's and cases of small tooling including wrenchs most of these were made by Krupps and Thyssen and were not very refined. I remember as a kid that we had a few of the wooden cases which all had German army marking.

Interesting. Wish I could see them.

Have you seen the US wartime tools? Not refined either. I have several Plomb "war finish" tools and they are not much to look at, just to get the job done.

 

[Monte]

I only can provide the pic from the link Bolster posted and these pics of a file stamped "Kriegsmarine" from the german navy 1935-1945.

 

[Bolster]

Aha, now that's interesting.

That's evidence of some wartime "branded" items. It would be as if we found tools marked "US Navy," correct?

 

[american lockpicker]

I'm not a fan of Reich era tools beides the horrible gov they had at the time the Germans used a lot of cheap(slave)labour and outsourcing.

 

[Bolster]

I'm not a fan of Reich era tools beides the horrible gov they had at the time the Germans used a lot of cheap(slave)labour and outsourcing.

By that standard, I shouldn't be buying most tools sold in America. We have a horrible government and we outsource a lot of our toolage to cheap (slave) labor.

I suppose it's impossible to have a discussion of WWII tools without politically correct commentary?

 

[Monte]

It would be as if we found tools marked "US Navy," correct?

yes, correct.



ps: found this pic again. A multi tool (?) axe, hammer, nail puller, pry bar (?). Only shows 2 horse heads as the manufacturers sign and the inscription: "D.R.G.M." (Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster = German Reich Registered Design) So it´s from 1891-1945.

 

[seabass223]

I recently came across a tool with the Nazi eagle and ********. While trying to find more info about it I stumbled on this old thread and thought it would be worth posting. But unfortunately I can't post a link or photo because I have less then 5 posts.

The tool is single open end wrench in size 27 and came in a big batch of old tools I received. It is dated 1940 and has the Nazi eagle ******** stamped on it, these are both situated on the wrench head. There also seems to be a name stamped on the wrench head, but I haven't figured out what it exactly says.

On the handle it has the size '27' stamped, a three digit letter code 'V.B.W.', right next to that 'DIN 130' (which is a German standard, since 1917) and a logo which seems to resemble a caterpillar vehicle or train carriage.

 

[Alaniho]

Stihl have an interesting history and seems they had contact to supply the Wehrmacht with chainsaws used to chop through the Russia forests.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330888

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494052

http://wiki.motorsaegen-portal.de/wiki/STIHL_-_MOTORSÄGEN_VON_1929_-_2018

I am trying to zoom the name but looks more like Dolmar on this pic though;

 

[Schurkey]

******** tools are used when working on KRIT cars.

 

[3baygarage]

Interesting old topic.

I recently came across a tool with the Nazi eagle and ********. While trying to find more info about it I stumbled on this old thread and thought it would be worth posting. But unfortunately I can't post a link or photo because I have less then 5 posts.

The tool is single open end wrench in size 27 and came in a big batch of old tools I received. It is dated 1940 and has the Nazi eagle ******** stamped on it, these are both situated on the wrench head. There also seems to be a name stamped on the wrench head, but I haven't figured out what it exactly says.

On the handle it has the size '27' stamped, a three digit letter code 'V.B.W.', right next to that 'DIN 130' (which is a German standard, since 1917) and a logo which seems to resemble a caterpillar vehicle or train carriage.

Please do post a picture when you get he chance.
Could it be this brand sold today:

http://www.samstagsales.com/vbw.htm#Ratchet

Vereinigte Beckersche Werkzeugfabriken

 

[Monte]

I recently came across a tool with the Nazi eagle and ********. While trying to find more info about it I stumbled on this old thread and thought it would be worth posting. But unfortunately I can't post a link or photo because I have less then 5 posts.

The tool is single open end wrench in size 27 and came in a big batch of old tools I received. It is dated 1940 and has the Nazi eagle ******** stamped on it, these are both situated on the wrench head. There also seems to be a name stamped on the wrench head, but I haven't figured out what it exactly says.

On the handle it has the size '27' stamped, a three digit letter code 'V.B.W.', right next to that 'DIN 130' (which is a German standard, since 1917) and a logo which seems to resemble a caterpillar vehicle or train carriage.

It´s a train wagon
https://www.vbw.de/en/
Today part of the Stahlwille group.

iirc tools which met the (high) specifications of the Reichsbahn were labelled with a picture of a wagon and the word "Waggon".

 

[Paycheck]

The literal definition of politically correct is “good liar”

 

[Professional Tool User]

Hazet, Stahlwille, Gefore, and many other German tool manufacturer's would have been around back then.

 

[lincwelder225]

Count Knipex in there too...

Most WW2 German military equipment had a waffenamt consisting if either a eagle grasping a wreathed ********, or a funky looking eagle with WaA and a 2 or 3 numver code. Example is WaA 135, used by Mauser Oberndorf. Different numbers meant different plants/manufacturers. Similar to the codes ( G, VV, etc) on Craftsman tools.I doubt, although its possible, that these marks were used on tools used the the Wehrmacht. Thise marks were used to show what contractor made it, and that it was inpected and complied with the specs set by the military.

 

[lincwelder225]

interesting thread, I was PM'd that this thread was going on.

I am not a tool person, I use tools to get the job done but I don't know their detailed history. I wish I still had those tools so I could take a picture to show you guys since nothing else will make you believe me. I had a 9mm Luger that I sold and the guy collected memorabilia, he offered me $40 for the 4 and I don't have them anymore. I think I paid $25 for the set of 5 and destroyed one, so I made money on the deal.

All I can relate is the story I was told when I purchased them at a Brit car swap meet, the guy I purchased them from said the Germans assumed that when they invaded the UK the UK factory workers would either hide or destroy their tools, the Germans made up BSF/Witworth tools to take with them into the UK so they could keep the machinery running and these were from that. I bought them to use not because of their history. I took the guy at his word and knowing the history of the ******** there is no way it would have been put on a tool in the 1950's, that would have got that company shut down in micro-seconds.

And to answer Bull's questions about weapons having ********'s on them, my Luger that I sold did not and neither does my current Luger, it has the stampings from the armory but the only ******** is the wings with it underneath. A quick scan of "Luger's at Random" does not show any either but I did not go page-by-page. I do have a youth knife with the ******** though.

Your Luger was probably produced pre 1938. It might have had a crown over the letter u if it was a WW1 gun. They also had a eagle with its wings down. After 1938 or 1939, all German small arms had the eagle over ********.

 

[Musicinabottle]

Same with BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Fiat, etc. Even US companies (like GM, Ford, etc...)supported the Nazi.


http://www.internalcombustionbook.com/articles/djn/GMandtheNazis.htm

http://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2

So did IBM.

 

[lincwelder225]

I dont see it as politically incorrect
I see political correctness as a joke

I see it as history
That is a great question
I couldnt imagine working on a King Tiger
It would be really interesting to see what each side used
Russia,Japan,Nazi's

I couldn't agree more!!

 

[seabass223]

It´s a train wagon
Today part of the Stahlwille group.

iirc tools which met the (high) specifications of the Reichsbahn were labelled with a picture of a wagon and the word "Waggon".

Great stuff, that's it indeed! Interesting, the wagon logo on 'my' wrench has three carriage wheels instead of two. They must have changed the logo later on.

I have sent the photo's to member S85B50, he will post the photo's or the link to the photo's.

 

[S85B50]

Here are the photos from seabass223:


https://imgur.com/a/Tr8OTp9

Pretty cool stuff! I think the last picture says REICHSHEER 1942 or 43

 

[Roberts210]

the tough part will be getting a company that is willing to admit that had anything to do with the war effort on that side of things. I think that could potentially ruin some sale for them. I know i don't see Mitsubishi advertising the Japanese Zero airplane trying to sell cars to the American public, and i doubt you will see that they had anything to do with it on their website either.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries also made the Jap type 91 torpedoes used at Pearl Harbor.

 

[xin]

Here are the photos from seabass223:


https://imgur.com/a/Tr8OTp9

Pretty cool stuff! I think the last picture says REICHSHEER 1942 or 43

For a 27mm not goin to get much torque on that.

 

[xin]

The literal definition of politically correct is “good liar”

I like that!

 

[Moparman390]

For a 27mm not goin to get much torque on that.

I was thinking the same thing, that's like made for a cheater pipe.

 

[3baygarage]

Very interesting wrench was the markings. Thanks for posting.

 

[Gmonkee]

Or half of a DOE cut long ago. Pretty cool find.

 

[6PTsocket]

They are still in the kitchen appliance business and sell plenty of stuff here, today. I just retired my Krup Compactherm coffee maker after long service.

They also made cooking pots, but I guess that's not relevant here.[emoji38]_hitti

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[6PTsocket]

And then killed them when they were no longer needed, like Werner Von Braun did. Too bad his knowledge was so needed by us. He deserved the same end as his victims. He was a ******** Nazi.

I'm not a fan of Reich era tools beides the horrible gov they had at the time the Germans used a lot of cheap(slave)labour and outsourcing.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[MikeF2316]

Slightly off topic, I had a coworker quite a few years back that was very proud of his original born in 1943 Germany birth certificate. As an official stamp, I remember the ******** in a circle, and if memory serves, there was an eagle holding onto the circle.

 

[Gmonkee]

In a documentary I seen a year or so back there was a guy touring one of the underground aircraft factories the Reich used towards the end of the war.

In one small chamber of the caves there was a small metal workbench with a metal rack on it a and a very plain thick old DOE wrench. Related somehow to ME 262 parts.
That plane was a hot item at the time and the US army cleaned that place to the bones in 1945 leaving only the bench and a crude old wrench.

I know it was but a tiny detail in a huge story that was the ME 262 aircraft but it caught me off guard the most advanced plane in the war was built with very basic tools.

Since I have sought and collected that crude old wrench as any could have been part of something much greater.