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"Balanced" wire wheel? Is there such a monster?

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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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I have a large HF 8" bench-mounted grinder/buffer combo (p/n 92425, no longer made...wimpy replacement pictured below). It has a 3/4" arbor. With the grinding wheel and buffing pad in place, the thing runs perfectly smooth...I can set my martini on top without spilling a drop.

However...when I remove the buffer wheel and install a wire wheel, all hell breaks loose. The thing vibrates like Katherine Hepburn's head in a helicopter. :rocker:

So, question is, does anyone make a balanced wire wheel? I've seen some very expensive wire wheels at Grainger (some exceeding $400), but none of the descriptions indicate the wheel is balanced. I don't mind spending a few $$$ for a good wheel, but I'd like to know it's not going to shake/rattle/roll when installed.

:confused:

image_2929.jpg
 
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mtkst19

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im assuming you have it pedestal mounted? if so, put a rubber floor mat like those found in cars under it. no more walking around the shop.
 
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lilredex

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Had similar problems with my Baldor set-up. I found that If I marked that wire wheel then moved it a quarter turn at a time I found a place where it ran smooth. If that isn't enough for yours, you might add a washer to the back side when putting on that brush. Size the washer for a very close fit then file the hole off center a bit (same diameter), so the washer can be moved slightly off center.. With some fiddling you may just get it balanced. Mark everything for future reinstallation.

The other option is to mount the wire wheel on a shaft and balance it. You can do that by letting the shaft roll along two (level) parallel knife edges such as the outlet of a old furnace fan. Then add screws where you need extra weight.
 

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cegreen

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Can you provide a little more detail (brand, diameter, width, material, age, condition), and perhaps a picture of the wire wheel you have? That would help.

-Chris
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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cegreen said:
Can you provide a little more detail (brand, diameter, width, material, age, condition), and perhaps a picture of the wire wheel you have? That would help.

-Chris
Click to expand...

It's a cheapie, no-name brand, about 3/4" wide, medium bristle. I'm sure the "cheapie" factor has something to do with it, but I want to be sure if I spend $100 on a (non-returnable) wire wheel it won't do the same.
 
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mrholeshot

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I use the NAPA brand wheels, Slight vibration. Perfect with 2 stones. It's scary for me because when I was a kid we had a grinder in the tin shed behind the house. It was really an electric motor with a grinder wheel on it. Was out in the shed sharpening an axe and the thing started to vibrate a little the the grinder wheel exploded cutting about 8 large holes in the shed. Sounded like a bomb went off in there. I get nervous every time I use a grinder
 
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lilredex

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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM said:
Not sure I follow... :headscrat
Click to expand...

Start by marking both your wire brush and the stone (on the other end) at the bottom (6 O'clock position) with a felt marker or similar. Then rotate your brush to 8-9 O'clock and try it again, if no good, move to noon and try again, and move around until you see some improvement. If you see some improvement, but not enough, that is the time to add that offset washer and do more experimenting. Or, go for balancing the wire brush right off. It is all trial and error. Mine ran really rough initially, but a bit of repositioning of that brush and it is completely vibration free, no extra weights needed.

Just ask if you need more help.
 
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BlindViper

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Plus what red said i noticed my grinder changed when i changed from my buffer to the wire wheel. Now I mark the wheels so they go back close then adjust for balance.
 
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cegreen

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One of my grinders is a Delta 8" variable speed. I have a 1" wide, medium (0.012" diameter bristles), crimped steel wire wheel on one end and an 8" buffing wheel on the other end.

I have never had any problems with the wire wheel being out of balance. I took it out of the box, attached the proper arbor adapter, put it on the machine, and it has been great ever since.

I use the wheel as an all-purpose tool for rust and paint removal, deburring cut edges, and first-pass polishing of steel parts. For those purposes, it has been excellent.

As you've noticed, the prices of wire wheels vary widely, but it is not necessary to spend anywhere near $100 for a basic, good-quality, all-purpose wheel. You can do very well for around $25 and in some cases, considerably less.

Depending on what you're using it for, some people prefer stainless steel wheels (significant additional $$) to carbon steel. I'm not qualified to speak to the pro's and con's, but others here are.

I've found that my 1" wide brush works very well for most things, but there have been times when I wished I had a narrower one -- perhaps 1/2" -- which can get into smaller areas. Wider is not always better.

Here are some links you can look at:

The brush I have is MSC# 04064812 ($25.00. It looks much better in person than it does in the picture, and it has held-up very well for 18 months.)
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000145792512

Here the MSC catalog page with other sizes and materials:
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=999&PMITEM=04064812&PMCTLG=00

Here is the McMaster-Carr catalog page:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/2689/=7x3put

Grainger also has them. Try checking-out their clearance section:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...op=search&Ntt=wire+wheel&sst=All&N=4294949235

BTW, don't be too concerned if the wheel's arbor hole isn't an exact match for the size of your arbor. Inexpensive adapters are readily available, and many wheels (like mine) come with a set of adapters in the box.

WHATEVER YOU DO, ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES AND, PREFERABLY, A GOOD FACE SHIELD. Even the very best wire wheels throw-off sharp wire bristles at very high speeds from time to time.

Hope this helps.

-Chris
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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OK, thanks for the info. I went in to the local Grainger and all the wheels I saw in my size (8" w/ 3/4" arbor) were way high. I prefer not to use an arbor adapter if at all possible in order to eliminate that as a source for the imbalance.

I'll stop by the local MSC and see what they have.
 
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Major Ramifications

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Do you have a closeup picture of exactly how you mounted the wheel? I always had to use wire wheel adapters on mine because the hub at the center on a wire wheel is so thin compared to a grinding wheel.

Also, even if a grinding wheel came balanced, it seems like it would become unbalanced as the damn wires start to fly out of it.
 
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srmofo

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Ive never had an issue with wire vibrating violently. They shake a little bit, but not violently. Then again, its bolted to a post, thats welded to an old wheel, thats filled with concrete.
 
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cegreen

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My grinder runs without any significant vibration. You can feel a very slight vibration if you put your hand on the motor, but that's it.

I don't use the wide flanges intended for use with grinding wheels or buffing wheels, since my wire wheel came built with a sturdy steel hub, and since those flanges are not intended for use with wire wheels.

I use the plastic arbor adapters that came with the wheel to adapt its 1"+ hole to my 5/8" shaft. Since the machine operates without vibration, it would appear that the adapters do not create any additional vibration.

My grinder with the wire wheel lives under the workbench. When I need to use it, I pull it out and put it on the bench top. For most wire wheeling, it is not necessary to fasten the grinder to the bench, and it does not move. If I'm going to do heavy wire wheeling or buffing which involves significant force, I'll put a couple of clamps on it.

This wheel has had hard use for 18 months, and it still spins smoothly, and still works great. There has been very little shedding of bristles.

It has not been my experience that most wire wheels are significantly out-of-balance and cause noticeable vibration. Since there do not appear to be any wire wheels for sale that are specifically identified and marketed as being balanced, this tends to suggest that out-of-balance wheels are not a widespread phenomenon.

I suspect the one you have is causing vibration problems because of a manufacturing defect, such as an off-center arbor hole, or badly-stamped flanges. This could be a one-off problem that's peculiar to your specific wheel, or to a specific manufacturing run, or to a specific manufacturer.

I don't think that the lack of a sufficiently massive base for your grinder is the source of your problem.
 
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lilredex

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cegreen said:
.
I don't think that the lack of a sufficiently massive base for your grinder is the source of your problem.
Click to expand...

Neither do I. If it ain't balanced properly, either before it is mounted or after, no amount of weight is going to keep it still, and silent
 
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mustangmccance

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and here I thought all of them did that. mine is mounted on an angle iron stand that it came with and I just always put my foot on the crossbrace whenever I use it. Just always thought that was the way they all were. who knew?
 
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78Bird

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My anecdote is that my HD special 8" with a wire wheel on it runs smooth as glass, I did nothing to balance it or anything... And mine just sits on my bench or toolbos when in use, it's heavy enough and has rubber feet it doesnt move.

Visible here in upper right. I know it was messy at the time...
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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Hmm...well now I'm stumped. I have been through 2 ~ 3 wheels (none expensive) and they all vibrate. One wheel has the plastic arbor adapter/inserts, one has the metal inserts and one is sized @ 3/4" (no adapter).

Guess I'll try messing around with the indexing and/or balancing rituals.
 
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cegreen

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Before you get too far into trying the balancing thing, here's another idea: What if the problem is actually with the grinder, and not the wheels?

If you know someone who has an 8" grinder you could use for testing, try putting your wire wheels, grinding wheels, and/or buffing wheels on that person's grinder, and see what happens. (Or go back to HF and try it on a different HF machine.)

If the other grinder is smooth without your wheels and vibrates with them, that suggests the wheels are at fault.

However, if the other grinder is smooth with both your friend's wheels and yours, that suggests that there may be a problem with your grinder (a bent shaft or a bearing problem, for example).

If your friend has a wire wheel that doesn't vibrate on his machine, ask to borrow it, mount it on your machine, and see what happens. Try putting it on the left side and then the right.

FWIW, my advice is to take the time to identify and fix the problem now, rather than attempting to mask the symptoms. If you don't, you'll probably never really be happy with it.

-Chris
 
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mustangmccance

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I am just guessing here so feel free to flame me, but mine was perfectly smooth when it had two grinding stones on it. it started walking more when I put the wheel on it. I always assumed it was because the machine was balanced for the two stones that weighed roughly the same. when you changed the weight on one side it acts like a gyroscope and wants to move. just a thought like I said I always just put my foot on the cross brace and hold it still till I am done with it.
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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mustangmccance said:
I am just guessing here so feel free to flame me, but mine was perfectly smooth when it had two grinding stones on it. it started walking more when I put the wheel on it. I always assumed it was because the machine was balanced for the two stones that weighed roughly the same. when you changed the weight on one side it acts like a gyroscope and wants to move. just a thought like I said I always just put my foot on the cross brace and hold it still till I am done with it.
Click to expand...

Mine is a grinder/buffer, so one side had/has the grinding wheel while the other side has the buffer. Swapping the buffer for the wire wheel still is somewhat "imbalanced" when discussing rotating mass.
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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cegreen said:
Before you get too far into trying the balancing thing, here's another idea: What if the problem is actually with the grinder, and not the wheels?

If you know someone who has an 8" grinder you could use for testing, try putting your wire wheels, grinding wheels, and/or buffing wheels on that person's grinder, and see what happens. (Or go back to HF and try it on a different HF machine.)

If the other grinder is smooth without your wheels and vibrates with them, that suggests the wheels are at fault.

However, if the other grinder is smooth with both your friend's wheels and yours, that suggests that there may be a problem with your grinder (a bent shaft or a bearing problem, for example).

If your friend has a wire wheel that doesn't vibrate on his machine, ask to borrow it, mount it on your machine, and see what happens. Try putting it on the left side and then the right.

FWIW, my advice is to take the time to identify and fix the problem now, rather than attempting to mask the symptoms. If you don't, you'll probably never really be happy with it.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Nah, all my friends are wimps...they have 6" machines (if at all). And Harbor Freight cuts off all their power cords on their display models.

I just spent some time with the grinder and upon closer examination, I can now see that the wheels are "wobbling" side-to-side (kinda like a bent bicycle rim). The stamped metal sideplates seem to be warped/bent. So, I don't think I have an elliptical(?) issue, but an "alignment" issue.

I think I'll look at a few higher-end wheels to see if the sideplates are made any better/thicker.
 
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cegreen

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I'll take a picture of my wheel and grinder tomorrow and post it up. That will give you a better idea of what it looks like.

-Chris
 
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FNFS2000

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Sure step 1 don't buy a chinese grinder or anything from big chinese stuff marts, step 2 buy a wheel made in USA or Germany...
 
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cegreen

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As promised, here are some pix of my wire wheel setup. My apologies -- it seems that I was incorrect when I said I don't use the heavy flanges with the wire wheel. It turns out that, in fact, I DO use them. Are you using them on your machine? If not, perhaps that might help.

P1010009CEG.jpg


P1010012CEG.jpg


P1010025CEG.jpg
 
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scooby074

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Get a good wheel, not cheap china. Walter are good IMHO. If your shafts or flanges are bent then that can definately cause vibs regardless of wheels used.

I bought some cheapie wheels. Not only did they vibrate, but they threw wires like a SOB. This was both Cup wheels on the angle grinder and 6" wheels on the grinder. Bought some walters at the LWS and havent had a problem yet. Better count on at least $30-40 each though.
 
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Major Ramifications

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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM said:
I used the two big washers (inner/outer) that are present to mount the buffing wheel.

So, you're saying that all wire wheels vibrate violently?
Click to expand...

Are they big flat washers? The wire wheel flange "washers" are cupped, so that they press on the thicker part of the hub, not at the center.

No, I know that all wire wheels do not vibrate violently.
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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cegreen said:
As promised, here are some pix of my wire wheel setup. My apologies -- it seems that I was incorrect when I said I don't use the heavy flanges with the wire wheel. It turns out that, in fact, I DO use them. Are you using them on your machine? If not, perhaps that might help.
Click to expand...

Yes, mine are similar.
 
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zkling

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Had this problem today, can't seem to find a solution. Brand new wire wheel induces violent vibration in my otherwise smooth grinder(s). I've tried the usual tricks of clocking, turning it around. Nothing changes. Grinder is bolted to a CI table top and the entire assembly shakes violently. Never had this with a wire wheel, if a grinding wheel does this I've just dressed and problem solved. Any suggestions? :headscrat:
 

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CanDoAttitude

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mustangmccance said:
and here I thought all of them did that. mine is mounted on an angle iron stand that it came with and I just always put my foot on the crossbrace whenever I use it. Just always thought that was the way they all were. who knew?
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums up my (limited) experience with bench grinders. The one I grew up with vibrated enough that it would walk the stand around if it wasn't restrained by putting a foot on the base.

When I grew up and got a place of my own, I eventually got my own bench grinder. Well, the new one did the same thing.

I am a little embarrassed to admit that I just thought it was acceptable bench grinder behaviour.
 
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1982fxr

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First I was irritated about the ****** Chinese grinder.

Then I was irritated that this thread is like 47 years old.

But then I had to read the wrong version of behavior with a u that isn’t supposed to be in there and lost my ****.
 
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mbshop

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Most wire wheels will be out of balance to some degree. Saw how to balance them on youtube. Get something to spin them on and then clip off wire strands till it balances. Look it up on youtube.
 
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