Gotta fix my (leaning/derelict) garage!!!

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

Hey guys.

Through a recent turn of events (inhereting a jeep, needing secure storage, tired of working outside), I've decided I've got to get the old garage fixed up. Its been three years since I've had a garage of my own - I've been storing my stuff and working out of a 40' shipping container. Now we live about 5 miles away from where the container is (its on family property) and its pretty inconvenient to go over there when I need to store something/get something. Plus...I'm a grease monkey at heart. I have no idea how I've stayed sane this long without a real garage to work in.

We now live on another family property. We don't own this place, we just live here. And we've had to fix tons of stuff. We spent at least $10k fixing the house up...and it still needs work. I was gonna have the container moved over here, but I realized this garage can be saved. The wife is somewhat satisfied for the time being, so now its time for the garage.

Its a pretty sad affair. Its probably 80-90 years old...built by a cheap Scotsman. I never understood the meaning of Scotch tape, or a Scotch plug until I married into this family! I mean, my surname is Scottish too...but somehow the cheap gene has been bred out of our clan. At any rate, take a look at the pictures:

You can see that the whole structure is leaning right. The right sill (was a 4x4) has rotted in half lengthwise and slid off the slab. I'm guessing the reason for this was twofold: there were no rain gutters (ever) and there is a concrete patio next to the garage where the rain probably bounced up and rotted all the wood out. Or else, its just old. Some of the studs are rotten...and most are 2x3 and not 2x4. The former occupants of the house put those 2x12 braces up against the side of the garage as a precaution. Probably helped save it in the end.

Other observations:
The braces in the doorway have pulled away from the header.

There are only rafters every four feet. Is this normal? I thought most modern buildings were two foot...

None of the trusses were braced up top... it looks like they're just nailed together. I'm guessing it would be better if they were tied together?

The rafters were only tied into wall studs in two places in the whole garage. I would also guess more would be better after I get it upright again.

It appears that the left side foundation is still somewhat solid. The sill appears to have moved only about a half inch off the slab.

My current plan of action:

1. Get some come-alongs and pull the right side back in to get it a little straighter (brace the outside so it can't fall over to the right.

2. Brace the left side/add more rafters and tie to the left side studs

3. Lift the right side and add some new studs and a new sill - then anchor everything

4. Build some doors, add lights, etc.

What do you guys think? I've read every thread I could find on here about fixing leaning walls and such. I realize I've left a lot of details out, but this is my rough idea of how to go about things. Feel free to correct me if I use an incorrect terms - i'm a much more proficient mechanic than a carpenter. Any pointers anybody? Cautionary tales? Threats?

ZRX61 · Sep 10, 2010

Looking at the rather alarming lean in the first pic, I'd push it over & start fresh...

kartracer23 · Sep 10, 2010

Mine is about 25% that bad. I'm hoping for a tornado. It's very well insured.

But seriously, that's got to be right on the edge of going over on its own. I'd be leary of even being inside of it.

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

Yeah, well...

The thought has crossed my mind. It would be nice just to push it over, but that is not an option. Family are dead set against any new structures - as I mentioned, they're super cheap and freak out any time something has to be permitted - they're scared of the place being re-assessed and taxes going up - and would basically disown me.

I suppose if we tried to fix it and then it fell...

KEH · Sep 10, 2010

Roof looks like the best part of the building, and it needs new shingles.

Looks like you have a concrete pad there. I would tear the whole thing down and get one of those metal carport type sheds with siding all the way around and a door or doors. I think you would come out for the about the same amount of money. Those buildings are classed as temporary for tax purposes(not that I would say anything about it) and if you move I would have it understood with the family that you would take the building with you, assuming you wanted to do so.

KEH

Professur · Sep 10, 2010

Call your local rental centre. They've got jacks designed for exactly this problem. Sets up like scaffolding. Lifts the whole thing straight up. Once your walls are straight again, internally brace them and put it back down. Job done, and you usually don't even need a building permit. Your big problem is the lack of any front wall to stiffen it. Shave that door by a couple of feet on either side and give yourself some wall and that'll stop it reoccurring.

haugy · Sep 10, 2010

You can level that and get another pole barn that size for the same amount you'll spend trying to save it. And with less headache.

The building is shot, let it die. Rebuild a nice safe one in it's place.

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

Professur said:
Call your local rental centre. They've got jacks designed for exactly this problem. Sets up like scaffolding. Lifts the whole thing straight up. Once your walls are straight again, internally brace them and put it back down. Job done, and you usually don't even need a building permit. Your big problem is the lack of any front wall to stiffen it. Shave that door by a couple of feet on either side and give yourself some wall and that'll stop it reoccurring.

This is what I was thinking this morning...If you lift it straight up a little and offer the roof support, any movement of the side walls will have little impact.

Daniel Dudley · Sep 10, 2010

I would square up the front first. Collar tie the bottom of the walls and use a come along. Consider making the garage door smaller, so you can have some short walls on the front and get a little shear action to hold the thing up. You might be able to cobble it up for very little money, which is about what it is worth. Do a little to it, and see how you feel. You might get to liking it, and decide to do a little more.

JayClay · Sep 10, 2010

You have to look at time invested, cash and longevity of the building.
If you rebuild it how much do you plan to spend? Lumber.....the correct lumber could be expensive. Along with any roofing materials and obviously doors. Will you have power? If it has power now I imagine that will all need to be replaced as well.
How much time to have to dedicate to the project? If you’re like me and work one full time job and a part time besides I have enough trouble finding time to tinker at home on my toys.
Once repaired how long do you think the remaining original portion of the building will last? Will it be another few years before your back rebuilding something else?
I can understand trying to save something thank could be salvaged, but weighting the options I'd let her die....

49stude2r6 · Sep 10, 2010

That building has enough wrong that finishing the job seems like an attractive idea. But permits and other factors sound like they have your mind made up. I like a challange, so part of it seems like fun just for that. The jacks sound like the right starting point. A front wall and then go from there.
Are the 4x4 sill plates anchored to the conctrete at all? Seems like part of the process would be getting the building anchored down. Best of luck, and keep us posted.

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

Well, thanks for all the input. Here's the rest of the story:

The plan is to be here for another 3-5 years. So, if I get that much service out of it, I'll be happy.

The roof is still water tight, amazingly. There is probably 3 layers of shingles on there. Its not a consideration.

As per above comments, a new building is not an option. The permits and everything else just make this impossible. I know normal people wouldn't flinch at this...but we're not exactly talking normal people here...

The 4x4 sill was/is anchored to the concrete with large nails.

I don't care if this isn't perfect.
I don't care if it still leans some.
I don't care if it doesn't last forever.
I have to make do with what is here.
I just want to stabilize the structure so I can be reasonably sure that I wont wake up to the sounds of my stuff being crushed by a 90 year old roof.

twostory · Sep 10, 2010

I agree with the others, a tear down/rebuild would be best. But you have to fix it, so this is what I would do.

As if stands today, I would never park my car in that garage.

1) Pull the building vertical (no lean)
2) Jack the roof up to get the roof "off" of the walls
3) rebuild each wall (one at time).
4) new pressure treated bottom plates & new 2x4 studs
5) You can probably reuse all of the existing siding.
6) after the walls are redone, lower the old roof onto the "vertical" wall
7) tear off the 2 or 3 layers of shingle and reroof

rodnok1 · Sep 10, 2010

I think you're on track, pull the right side back straight, add temp diag supports to keep it square. Cut studs and build up pressure treated sill, I'd do 8' at a time after jacking roof a little to relieve pressure. You need some diagonal bracing on that wall anyways. It needs collar ties at each rafter also, use metal rafter ties. Those current rafter ties look undersized anyways. Repeat for the other side. I'd add plywood gussest and diag bracing all over that ******* to keep it from racking again.
It will be a bit of work, but really should be that expensive, just 2x's and braces/ties for everything.

Northstar9126 · Sep 10, 2010

Once you get it reasonably square I would sheet the back wall with plywood on the inside to further keep the building from racking.

ZRX61 · Sep 10, 2010

fergus said:
...but we're not exactly talking normal people here....

Care to elaborate? I'm somewhat intrigued..

Bear · Sep 10, 2010

OK - so Rodnok and Northstar are on the right track. I have done a bldg in this condition. Jack it up in sections, replace the sills as needed/ cripple the studs and set back down. then as Northstar says "sheet the rear" to lock it in place and procede with the rest. Here is a pic of mine 20 + years after w/ new sidiing, doors, roof and concrete floor. You would not know it was about to fall over when I bought the place.

OccupantRJ · Sep 10, 2010

For your purposes and time line of usage, I would rack the building back upright with a couple of cable come alongs, then restructure as others have suggested. It's easy for other people to tell you to knock it down, but you already know that opens a can of worms for you. Therefore, see my sig.

jclem40c · Sep 10, 2010

Crib it, Jack it up, put new sills under it, brace it, set it down again and go to work. Its better than no garage at all.

John

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

ZRX61 said:
Care to elaborate? I'm somewhat intrigued..

Well lets see... grandpa is so cheap he used to get upset at me when I spent my own money!

He's cheap enough that he wouldn't run the central heat anymore...but he ran electric space heaters all the time. The main heater at his place is ancient...if he replaced with a modern one it would probably cut his heating costs in half.

He's actually a really smart guy....started a fuel business in the '80s that took agricultural/food waste and produced ethanol for fuel.

Anyway, he'd really blow his top if he got a higher tax bill. This place has been in the family for 75 years...and tax on 45 acres is only like $900!

Falcon67 · Sep 10, 2010

You see my thread here?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41042
It's scary - looks like the same style building. The roof for sure is almost identical to the older part of my building.

srmofo · Sep 10, 2010

Imo, iwould get a rough material list and prices including jack rental and roof. Then compare it to an enclosed carport. My buddy just priced a 15x24 with 8' walls 10' center and garage door for 3300$ installed.

I wouldn't rule it out until I priced the materials. Its a temporary structure so they can't say **** about taxes

OccupantRJ · Sep 10, 2010

Falcon67 said:
You see my thread here?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41042
It's scary - looks like the same style building. The roof for sure is almost identical to the older part of my building.

Chris, I was waiting for you to chime in here!

NUTTSGT · Sep 10, 2010

It looks to have an original shake roof under the shingles. You'll have to tear all those off, along with the asphalt shingles and resheet it with OSB or plywood when you do the roof. That'll take a small chunk of change, itself.

Don't rip off the batten boards but lay the sheeting right on top and nail it down.

e-tek · Sep 10, 2010

ZRX61 said:
Looking at the rather alarming lean in the first pic, I'd push it over & start fresh...

kartracer23 said:
Mine is about 25% that bad. I'm hoping for a tornado. It's very well insured.

But seriously, that's got to be right on the edge of going over on its own. I'd be leary of even being inside of it.

As happens with so many threads, the guy ASKED FOR HELP fixing the effing garage, not for comments on how NOT to fix it or how you're scared to go in....sheesh! :wtf:

I'm sorry I have no expertise in this area to offer any direct help, BUT - I have seen several buildings this bad or worse repaired very nicely on here. I know for sure it can be done and that there's lots of guys here who can help you - I'm glad they chimed in. Hopefully the naysayers will stop back and learn something as well.

Looking forward to seeing it straight and being worked in! :beer:

Chris/Falcon 67 - that's the thread I had in mind! Thank you for posting that to show everyone waht can be done. Doesn't look like you had t put all that much money into it either. I'd bet the OP here can get away with very little investment - and 2-3 years worth of garage time!

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

Thanks falcon...that's what I need. The resemblence is spooky. I'm planning on doing the same to the rafters that you did...gives a good stable platform to lift with.

BTW...what did you use to jack the roof up with? I'm guessing those rolling floor jacks and a 4x4? How did you crib/brace gradually as you jacked up the roof?

I'm pretty much at the same point you were at...just got fired up all the sudden. I've been here 1.5 years and I guess that's how long it took me to get after it.

This guy also did some similar work...

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/framecarp/liftmove/straighten/garage1/winch.htm

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

E-tek:

I share your sentiment man. I've realized there are a couple different types of people on this board...some prefer to throw money at problems or have somebody else do things for them or just do bigger/better/newer whenever they can. I'm not one of those...anymore.

I've really gotten used to getting in over my head and learning a bunch of stuff. If it wasn't for my willingness to try I wouldn't have learned half of what I know now this last few years. Besides, I really get a kick out of being resourceful these days. Its sorta become necessity as my industry (real-estate related) has been directly shoed in the nuts as far as pay goes the last few years.

Amitygravel · Sep 10, 2010

fergus, look at it this way , your garage could be like mine. Take a look at my avatar , see that chunk of diamond plate ? At this point I'm not sure if its pushing the damn thing over or holding it up. Used tire around my place , tend to hold down 'roofs' , the burrow in the dirt floor ? Ground hog.
You said you like challenges , go for it ! From your photos it looked like stud and joist / rafter spacing is 2ft on center. Along with the water issue that isn't helping. Place new members in between existing to strengthen up the roof structure , then you can run temporary beams perpendicular to the truss
system to provide support to jack up the building. Then you can put in a new bottom plate , add more studs and set it back down. Everyone has posted good ideas , pick the ones that seem feasible to you and get started. And keep us updated ! Just remember, you don't have a garage as bad as mine!

WNYflyer · Sep 10, 2010

Looks like one of the main reasons it has leaned over the years is you have lost all stability side to side at your front door opening. New garages typically have enough length of sheeted wall on either side of the door to provide that stability. Since your garage doesn't have the shear walls the original builder tried to replicate the shear wall by using a knee braced portal (columns & beam connected by knee brace to stiffen the joint) to supply the stability. Your knee brace has disconnected thus allowing a lot movement/leaning.

You can add ties for the rafters, fix rot etc but if you don't repair that knee brace system you will most likely have the same leaning problem all over again. This is one of the most important if not the most important things to fix first after straightening the building.

fergus · Sep 10, 2010

@amity - yeah I hear ya. I'm not griping - I have what I have...and I'll make do.

@wny - my thought is to build some shear walls on the front probably 2'6 or so on either side

e-tek · Sep 10, 2010

fergus said:
E-tek:

I share your sentiment man. I've realized there are a couple different types of people on this board...some prefer to throw money at problems or have somebody else do things for them or just do bigger/better/newer whenever they can. .

Don't get me wrong - I don't have a problem with anyone paying to have the work done, or doing it themselves. No problem with big or small, rented or owned, new or old.

What I've ALWAYS taken issue to is the defeatist attitude. This is a site for guys that like to DO things! I hate (well, hate is a strong word -LOL!) it when guys either tell someone NOT to try it, or that it's TOO dangerous, TOO expensive, TOO hard, TOO soft, TOO stupid, or whatever. In my 48 years experience the sky rarely - if ever - falls and you can do pretty much anything you put your mind to.

rsanter · Sep 10, 2010

a friend of mine bought a place that had a garage like that. he used come-alongs inside to pull it back to mostly square and then installed OSB/shearwall and diagonal bracing inside of it.
there were some studs that looked questionable that he simply sistered anoter one next to it

I think thats about the cheapest option you will find

right after that you could take the old one apart for the pieces and use the materials to rebuild it. if you did that it would look mostly like it was the old one...

bob

babzog · Sep 11, 2010

jclem40c said:
Crib it, Jack it up, put new sills under it, brace it, set it down again and go to work. Its better than no garage at all.

Probably what I'd do too... aside from some **** at the bottom, I've seen buildings in worse shape being regularly used. Can you jack it up enough to get a course of block around the bottom? Then, replace the sills and set it down. You'd not worry about water rotting the bottom again.

R-132 Fan · Sep 11, 2010

Yeah, it can be saved. Is there any way you could have your stroage container moved in and placed paralell withe garage a few feet from the side it's leaning towards? It just looks like starting to shift it around jacking it up could be pretty dangerous. Once it's on the jacks evenly it will be OK, it's just the start of the jacking it up seems like it would be the time it might start coming apart. I would be sure to have an open escape route so I could get out in a hurry.

54FordPanel · Sep 11, 2010

Falcon67 said:
You see my thread here?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41042
It's scary - looks like the same style building. The roof for sure is almost identical to the older part of my building.

Chris...nice work!

fergus · Sep 11, 2010

R-132 Fan said:
Yeah, it can be saved. Is there any way you could have your stroage container moved in and placed paralell withe garage a few feet from the side it's leaning towards? It just looks like starting to shift it around jacking it up could be pretty dangerous. Once it's on the jacks evenly it will be OK, it's just the start of the jacking it up seems like it would be the time it might start coming apart. I would be sure to have an open escape route so I could get out in a hurry.

You're right. This is my major concern...and one I haven't totally figured out yet...how to keep it braced while I bring it back square. I cant tie everything together ahead of time - all I can do is reinforce the roof with new rafter and such - the walls need to stay "loose" so I can pull it back square with the come alongs. Also, there is no way I can get the storage container in there. Not enough room.

My first idea is this:

1. Put some more 2x12 braces on the right outside wall like the one in the picture

2. On the right inside wall, I'll install a temporary sill, say two feet inside of the existing wall onto the pad. Then I'll have some 2x4s or 4x4s (perhaps tied together?) wedged from the temp sill up to the joists/header at the top of the right wall. These inside braces will be close to the finished height of the wall. That way, when I start pulling the wall back over to the left, it will not only move left, but it will start goin upward as the braces inside rock into an upright position.

Is this overkill? I'm not just worried about the whole thing tipping right, I'm worried also about the right wall folding inside of the roof as well. I don't know. I guess I could also chain the top of the left wall down into some anchors into the dirt so that side can't move either...who knows.

What did any of you do for bracing will you pulled things straight?

JC23 · Sep 11, 2010

I'd say take a look at this thread. It has a few things on common.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36316&highlight=barn+saving

iagsxr · Sep 11, 2010

Basically when the guys tell you that it can't be saved what they're really saying is that they don't know how to either.

You want 3-5 years, the cheapest way, here's what I'd do;

Cross jack it with come-alongs. Go slow. It didn't lean that far in one day, you won't get it back in one day.

Rather than making big grandiose plans of how you're going to do it listen and watch the building as it comes back. It'll tell you when to stop and where it needs braced.

Once it's near plumb jack up wall at a time and replace lower plate. Do whatever you think's neccessary to tie the existing studs into it.(I'd sister)

Rather than getting crazy with the rafters I'd just add knee braces to what you have. It fell over because the lower plate's rotten. not anything to do w/the rafters.

At that point you can decide if it needs anything for internal sheeting.

The main way you can get yourself in trouble w/my method is getting in a hurry. If you want to bring it back all at once you need a way to completely support the roof in case things come apart or if it goes over center the other way.

Falcon67 · Sep 11, 2010

My current half-assed plan of action:

1. Get some come-alongs and pull the right side back in to get it a little straighter (brace the outside so it can't fall over to the right.

2. Brace the left side/add more rafters and tie to the left side studs

3. Lift the right side and add some new studs and a new sill - then anchor everything

4. Build some doors, add lights, etc.

That's as good a plan as any. I had originally thought about bracing the east wall (same as left side of your pic #1) to keep it in place. After bracing the joists, I just thought I'd raise that side a bit and see how the building moved when I started up with the other side. It moved quite a bit on it's own. I also had the added benefit of the back of the building tied to another building. Not much holding, but some. Your idea to pull it back up some and brace that side to keep it from keeling over should be good.

I doubled the joists because they were old and I'd bet good money they would have split had they not been sistered with fresh wood and construction glue. One joist was already broken and had a temp patch. They just looked OLD.

Another idea (after bracing up the joists) might be to go up with the building on temp wall supports, then kind of scooch (sorry for the deep technical terms) the roof sideways a little at a time.

FWIW - I lifted an entire side of my building - 16x20 area, similar construction and two layers of shingles - with a Craftsman race floor jack and my backup HF orange $40 floor jack. The jacks had no problem lifting the building. I just went a little at a time, maybe 3-4 inches, then stopped, braced and looked things over. I nailed a stack of 2x6s for a jacking platform/joist spanner (pic #5) and used two double 2x4s as jack posts. Made sure they were straight, took them up against the joist brace snug then ran a screw into the brace in case the jack post got loose. Pump one jack, then the next, repeat. Survey the situation about every 3-4 pumps. Pic 8 shows the main sliding supports - 2 ea 2x4s made into an "H" and extended up beside a joist. Move the building up a bit, run some deck screws in from the sides, add a couple of misc 2x4s in the middle and the weight is supported. Support the weight on the jacks, remove the screws and go up again. You just inch it up and watch how it goes, then make adjustments.

I also kept the front and rear open, clear of obstructions and my tennis shoes tied tight.

I think I spent maybe $500~600 if that much.

Egyptians got those big boss stone blocks up the pyramid, for sure we can save a wood shed with a few tools! :beer:

This guy also did some similar work...

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/f...age1/winch.htm

Good ideas there. Geezs - was there some "Book Of Sheds" best seller in the 20s that had people building all these look-a-likes?

Racecarl · Sep 11, 2010

How big is the tree to the left of the garage in the first picture? It looks to be like it is at least a foot in diameter and would make an excellent anchor point. It also looks to be nearly in the center of the wall. If my assumptions are correct, the tree will be your most effective tool.

First of all, I would get 3 or 4 heavy duty ratchet straps. I would use the straps to tie the left side of the building to the right side of the building (as viewed in the first picture). These straps need to go around the double top plate, so you will have to bore some holes in the siding. Don't trust lag screws--GO AROUND THE DOUBLE TOP PLATE. Space the straps equally along the wall.

Nail/screw 3 2x6s together. Make them long enough so that they will make roughly a 45 degree angle from the top plate to the floor. Notch the top so that they fit the top plate and angle cut the bottom so they will slide along the floor. Space these evenly along the wall closest to the tree. These 'timbers' will also need to be braced so that the end on the floor will not deflect sideways. Bore three holes at the bottom of the 'tree wall' in line with the timbers you made. If the tree is in the right place, you can use it as a stake for a come-a-long, if not, securely place 3 stakes in line with the timbers. Using a come-a-long for each stake/timber, tie one end of the come-a-long to the stake and the other near the bottom of the timbers. I would wrap chains around near the bottom of the timbers and spike the chain so it can't slide up on the timbers.

Tighten each come-a-long gradually and evenly. The timbers will push the top of the wall into position without acting to pull the wall down. The straps running from left to right transfer the pull to both walls equally, and can be easily adjusted as needed to straighten the opposite wall. I would also recommend cross strapping the sidewalls (tree side and opposite) so if the garage is out of plumb in that direction it can also be corrected.

I hope this makes sense--I might try to draw on one of your posted pics to better demonstrate what I am trying to say. This gives you an excuse to own 3 come-a-longs and 7-8 good ratchet straps

Gotta fix my (leaning/derelict) garage!!!

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