Quincy Compressors - NOT AMERICAN

edl · Nov 4, 2010

i just found this out (maybe you guys already knew), Quincy was acquired in March of this year by Atlas Copco of Sweden ... so, for those that care Quincy is no longer a US company

and get this: they acquired all of Quincy EXCEPT quincy's chinese operation (yeah, that's right, Quincy has had a chinese operation for some time)

so: what was quincy in the US is atlas and what is quincy going forward is just China

don't you just love it

"Atlas Copco Completes Quincy Compressor Acquisition
STOCKHOLM--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Atlas Copco (STO:ATCOA)(STO:ATCOB) has completed the acquisition of Quincy Compressor from EnPro Industries with the acquisition of Quincy’s Chinese operations.

Atlas Copco completed the acquisition of Quincy Compressor, except for the Chinese operation, on March 1, 2010. Quincy Compressor designs and manufactures reciprocating compressors, rotary screw compressors and vacuum pumps, primarily under the Quincy brand. The company is headquartered in Bay Minette, Alabama and has manufacturing facilities in Bay Minette, Quincy, Illinois, and in Kunshan, China. The products are sold through a network of independent distributors and agents. More than three quarters of the sales are in the United States.

Atlas Copco may be required to disclose the information provided herein pursuant to the Securities Markets Act.

Atlas Copco is an industrial group with world-leading positions in compressors, construction and mining equipment, power tools and assembly systems. The Group delivers sustainable solutions for increased customer productivity through innovative products and services. Founded 1873, the company is based in Stockholm, Sweden, and has a global reach spanning more than 170 countries. In 2009, Atlas Copco had about 30 000 employees and revenues of BSEK 64 (BEUR 6.0). Learn more at Welcome to the Atlas Copco Group's corporate website

Atlas Copco’s Compressor Technique business area develops, manufactures, markets, and services oil-free and oil-injected stationary air compressors, portable air compressors, gas and process compressors, turbo expanders, electric power generators, air treatment equipment and air management systems. It also offers specialty rental services. It innovates for superior productivity in applications such as manufacturing, construction, and the process industry worldwide. Principal product development and main manufacturing units are in Antwerp, Belgium. More information is available on www.atlascopco.com"

m.james · Nov 4, 2010

Technically speaking on business, Atlas can be said to be an American company now. Just start buying quality over cheapness and it doesn't matter where it's from. Thanks for the update.

A_Pmech · Nov 4, 2010

I used to have respect for Quincy.

meissen · Nov 4, 2010

My dad was born and raised in Quincy, Ill.

Jeepguy · Nov 4, 2010

this is laughable. the lines that were already imports (not chinese by the way) are still, and the only thing that was replaced with atlas was the small single stage contractor units. you can relax if you still want an original quincy QT they still make them here. just make sure you are getting a QT, Pro, Promax, Extreme, or QR series for the recips and they are still made in the USA

edl · Nov 4, 2010

well...i think atlas copco is a good company, but i don't know why this is "laughable"

first, this is what they do in china - manufacture energy saving compressed air controls and intermediate pressure controllers as well as rotary screw air compressors - so it appears the rotary screw products (or at least some) are directly imported from China

second, whether or not manufacturing occurs here is not usually the point as to whether a company is "american" or "chinese" - so, honda makes cars in the US - are these "US" cars or japanese ?

Quincy (when it was an american company) made compressors in china - are these "US" compressors or chinese compressors?

what is undisputable is that the profits after US workers are paid go to the owners who are swedes now and not americans

but yes, they are built here just like hondas are built here - both by companies that are foreign owned

does any of this make a difference? - don't know

not sure which part of this is the laughable part?

GeorgiaHybrid · Nov 4, 2010

To start with, Atlas Copco purchased Quincy in March except for the China operation. That final division's purchase was finalized this past month. Note that Quincy is still an American registered company although it is a subsidiary of Atlas Copco. This is similar to Budweiser being owned by a Belgium (I think) company or Chrysler being owned by Fiat.

According to the press releases that I have seen, it will remain a separate company from Atlas Copco and furnish the same compressors that Quincy in known for and Atlas Copco will continue to produce their rather extensive line of compressors. Their product lines make a good fit with each other.

As noted above, the main reciprocating compressor lines will still be produced in the USA for the foreseeable future (from what I have read in the press releases) although the Chinese rotary line might be swapped over (in my opinion) to the Atlas Copco brand name.

edl · Nov 4, 2010

again, it doesn't bother me that quincy is owned by atlas - i just point it out because it is one of the quintissential american brands for compressors and it just surprised me know it is foreign owned - particularly since many current threads on this and other forums talk about it as an american company - it is not - again, that may not be a bad thing, it may be a great thing - but it is wrong to say they are an american company

any company doing business in the US has to be formed as a US entity - so Honda US operates through a US corporation, but that is not what makes it a US "owned" company
- as we all know it is owned by the Japanese

it does seem like a good fit - and for all we know, Atlas Copco may make a better compressor than Q ever did or ever will

the sole point of the email was that it did not seem widely known that quincy was foreign owned - certainly it surprised me

RbrtAWhyt · Nov 4, 2010

meissen said:
My dad was born and raised in Quincy, Ill.

I used to watch Quincy on TV...

Norcal · Nov 4, 2010

Just a FYI: Atlas-Copco used to own Milwaukee Electric Tool Corp. until they sold it to a Hong Kong holding company & they moved most of the tool production to China.

Gary S · Nov 4, 2010

I think we need to accept that most companies today are importing some of their components from China. Quincy has a reputation for building good compressors. Hopefully it stays that way. Many of the other compressor manufacturers are assembling their compressors in the US with some imported components.
As long as the equipment they produce performs well and lasts, we are OK.
Time will tell what lasts and what doesn't.

Bootybug · Nov 15, 2010

Building anything in the US is cost prohibitive; pensions, taxes, labor and more taxes. As Americans we are too expensive to manufacture anything. Yes, even cars. We are creators, designers and innovative thinkers. It is the Chinese, Vietnames and eventually Africans that will be doing the labor in years to come. You see, money finds its most efficient means of production; it finds the best rate per hour for productivity, and quality.

Mexico used to be our primary labor market but has since become expensive with NAFTA and more formalized relations with Mexico. This is nothing new folks, we used to make clothing and wine for the British. It's called Emerging Market countries getting their legs, and working their way out of it and into a developed market economy.

Don't snub your noses at China, they are helping us to afford items we ordinarily may not be able to purchase (microwave ovens, TV (plasma, TFT's, 3d), cars (don't laugh--keep watching Hyundai).

Good Read: Mark Mobius on Emerging Markets.

With good quality control, China can create excellent products, at less than half the price the US can. And you can take that to the bank, literally.

Industrial Concepts · Nov 15, 2010

Atlas Copco also owns Bel-Aire & Chicago Pneumatic air compressors. They have a plant or warehouse in S.C.

rwhite692 · Nov 15, 2010

Let's see...we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, and we tax our US based corporation's profits that are made overseas by selling goods and services to other nations, at as much as 35% (if they bring that money back into the US).

Hmmm....If I were a US based corporation, would I bring that money back into the US? Or would I spend it building up operations outside the US?

John Chambers has it right:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704469004575533880328930598.html

A_Pmech · Nov 15, 2010

Bootybug said:
Building anything in the US is cost prohibitive; pensions, taxes, labor and more taxes. As Americans we are too expensive to manufacture anything. Yes, even cars. We are creators, designers and innovative thinkers. It is the Chinese, Vietnames and eventually Africans that will be doing the labor in years to come.

Considering the Chinese and the Indians have more "creators, designers and innovative thinkers" than we do on a population basis alone, just where do you think that leaves us in the "Big Picture"?

Without jobs as I see it.

Bloomberg Business Week said:
Much has been written about how such multinationals as IBM (IBM) and General Motors are shifting more research and development work to emerging markets like India and China. Although most innovation currently sourced by multinationals from emerging markets primarily consists of new products or services, our research shows that some smart multinationals such as PepsiCo (PEP) and General Electric (GE) are using emerging markets to try out disruptive business models. These changes could radically transform the very essence of these firms and the way they do business globally—not just in India or China, but also in the U.S. and Europe.

You can take that to the bank.

redsky49 · Nov 15, 2010

rwhite692 said:
Let's see...we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, and we tax our US based corporation's profits that are made overseas by selling goods and services to other nations, at as much as 35% (if they bring that money back into the US).

Hmmm....If I were a US based corporation, would I bring that money back into the US? Or would I spend it building up operations outside the US?

You've been drinking that Tea Party Kool-Aid.

Despite high rates on paper, most large US firms pay little or no taxes:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

Don't believe me? Google "US companies that pay no taxes" and see for yourself. Firms with immense profits - Mobil/Exxon and GE for example - get off with no taxes.

BlackLead · Nov 15, 2010

I'm not sure how much any of this will matter once the Federal Reserve begins flooding the market at the rate of $75 billion dollars a month until sometime in 2011. It should help drive up inflation and cheapen the value of the American dollar enough that some manufacturing might make it back over here. Or if we're lucky, the call centers in India might shift back to the USA.

Kinda reminds me of a David Allan Coe song: "This'll only hurt for a little while..."

redsky49 · Nov 15, 2010

BlackLead said:
I'm not sure how much any of this will matter once the Federal Reserve begins flooding the market at the rate of $75 billion dollars a month until sometime in 2011. It should help drive up inflation and cheapen the value of the American dollar enough that some manufacturing might make it back over here. Or if we're lucky, the call centers in India might shift back to the USA.

Kinda reminds me of a David Allan Coe song: "This'll only hurt for a little while..."

It will make US goods more competitive overseas, to the detriment of our competitors. Germany, for one, is extremely annoyed with the US over this.

A_Pmech · Nov 15, 2010

redsky49 said:
You've been drinking that Tea Party Kool-Aid.

Despite high rates on paper, most large US firms pay little or no taxes:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

*high five*

:thumbup:

BlackLead · Nov 15, 2010

redsky49 said:
You've been drinking that Tea Party Kool-Aid.

Despite high rates on paper, most large US firms pay little or no taxes:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

Don't believe me? Google "US companies that pay no taxes" and see for yourself. Firms with immense profits - Mobil/Exxon and GE for example - get off with no taxes.

I don't know anything about Kool-Aid, personally, but if this is the article you're referring to: http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/news/economy/corporate_taxes/, then you should take note that that article was written in August of 2008. It also makes note of the same issue regarding high taxation rates on corporations. And as a point of clarification, taxes are levied on profits, not revenue. Revenue is not necessarily indicative of profitability.

Not trying to bust your chops, but I felt it needed clarification.

redsky49 · Nov 15, 2010

You're correct. The quote included was selected primarily due to its brevity in stating the main points, not its particular currency.

The result however is the same. Lack of global competitiveness is not due to excessive taxation, regardless of the complaints from a strident minority.

How do people explain the success of the German economy, where both government involvement, and taxation, and environmental awareness, and "socialized" health care, etc. are in excess of the US?

As for profits, I seem to recall that world record profits have been recorded recently by Mobil/Exxon, followed closely by GE.

Just my opinion

padstack · Nov 15, 2010

meissen said:
My dad was born and raised in Quincy, Ill.

I went to college in Quincy. QU Hawks baby!!

Bootybug · Nov 16, 2010

Most everything you buy is made in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, or Taiwan. And if it wasn't you probably wouldn't buy it because it would be so expensive. Yeah you might buy a compressor and your pick-up truck, but that's where it would pretty much end.

When I bought my last house one day no one was at the site finishing up. I called the foreman and asked what was going on. To my surprise, he said immigration. What? Why don't you just hire legals. He said: "..white people won't do this work, and if they did, you couldn't afford the house". Think about it.

It's not a bad thing. It is what it is. We have been a society of inventors for decades, and this must continue to keep us at the front. However, from an investment perspective, in terms of rapid growth, you should think hard where to put your money.

santagary · Nov 16, 2010

We have met the enemy and they is us. Fear of loss and greed rules the world.

djmartins · Nov 16, 2010

Bootybug said:
Most everything you buy is made in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, or Taiwan. And if it wasn't you probably wouldn't buy it because it would be so expensive. Yeah you might buy a compressor and your pick-up truck, but that's where it would pretty much end.

Well, since we have been eliminating American jobs of course few people can afford to buy American products.
If our wages kept up with inflation American made products wouldn't be expensive!

milkovich · Nov 16, 2010

"if it was made in USA, you wouldn't be able to afford it"... THEN DON'T BUY IT.

When you buy "harbor ****," you kill the economy of scale of quality producers so the prices go up until Irwin or Sears go overseas.

Supply is always a reflection of demand, so don't blame these companies. If they don't sell to the "20% off" orange tool buyer, they don't eat.

Graymills - Craig · Nov 16, 2010

rwhite692 said:
Let's see...we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, and we tax our US based corporation's profits that are made overseas by selling goods and services to other nations, at as much as 35% (if they bring that money back into the US).

Hmmm....If I were a US based corporation, would I bring that money back into the US? Or would I spend it building up operations outside the US?

John Chambers has it right:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704469004575533880328930598.html

It's worse. Many small companies, including a large chunk of small- to mid-size manufacturers, pay at the top individual rate, not the (lower) corporate rate.

Graymills - Craig · Nov 16, 2010

Bootybug said:
Building anything in the US is cost prohibitive; pensions, taxes, labor and more taxes. As Americans we are too expensive to manufacture anything. Yes, even cars. We are creators, designers and innovative thinkers. It is the Chinese, Vietnames and eventually Africans that will be doing the labor in years to come. You see, money finds its most efficient means of production; it finds the best rate per hour for productivity, and quality. .

But that's not correct. Look at the domestic manufacturing output over time:

data - http://www.census.gov/manufacturing/m3/historical_data/histshts/naics/naicsvsp.xls
key - http://www.census.gov/manufacturing/m3//historical_data/aggseries.pdf

While our domestic manufacturing *employment* has fallen, domestic manufacturing *output* has not.

Graymills - Craig · Nov 16, 2010

redsky49 said:
You've been drinking that Tea Party Kool-Aid.

Despite high rates on paper, most large US firms pay little or no taxes:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

Don't believe me? Google "US companies that pay no taxes" and see for yourself. Firms with immense profits - Mobil/Exxon and GE for example - get off with no taxes.

(full disclosure, we're a subchapter s company, so we pay the personal, not corporate, rate)

A good chunk of that is explained by transfer pricing among multinational divisions. Basically, they game the cost of items along the chain to push as much profitability as they can to lower-tax countries.

For instance, let's say Mercedes builds a transmission in Germany and ships it to the US to be assembled into a car in one of their plants here. Let's say the transmission costs them $1000. They could declare a transfer price from their transmission division to their assembly division of, oh, $3000. This reduces the profitability of the US arm (where taxes are 35%) by $2000 and increases the profitability of their German arm (where taxes are 15%) by $2000, saving them $400. This is a *direct* result of our higher tax rates.

"Despite high rates on paper, most large US firms pay little or no taxes:"

Actually, many pay taxes, just not here. We have the 2nd highest corporate rate in the developed world, so it's safe to assume that this will continue.

Graymills - Craig · Nov 16, 2010

redsky49 said:
It will make US goods more competitive overseas, to the detriment of our competitors. Germany, for one, is extremely annoyed with the US over this.

Somewhat. Remember that steel, oil, copper, and other commodities are priced globally, so they will get more expensive. This will help services more than manufacturers.

rwhite692 · Nov 16, 2010

redsky49 said:
You've been drinking that Tea Party Kool-Aid.

Despite high rates on paper, most large US firms pay little or no taxes:

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

Don't believe me? Google "US companies that pay no taxes" and see for yourself. Firms with immense profits - Mobil/Exxon and GE for example - get off with no taxes.

Redsky, you are simply reinforcing exactly what I talked about. Corporate taxes are so incredibly high here in the US, that companies will do absolutely anything to avoid them: They will simply set up a subsidiary of their company in that foreign country and will invest their profits (ie, build factories, create jobs), THERE.

At a 35% tax rate on any profits that would be brought into the US, who can blame them?

What would YOU do?

The tax code is broken and the laws need to be changed so that US based companies are incentivised to invest their profits stateside. The current system STRONGLY incentivises companies to do the exact opposite!!

Graymills - Craig · Nov 16, 2010

rwhite692 said:
Redsky, you are simply reinforcing exactly what I talked about. Corporate taxes are so incredibly high here in the US, that companies will do absolutely anything to avoid them: They will simply set up a subsidiary of their company in that foreign country and will invest their profits (ie, build factories, create jobs), THERE.

Worse.

They can't simply transfer profits unless they are also transferring goods. When they do, they can hide the profits in the costs of the products they ship over here. So the tax code *incents* the outsourcing of production, since they'll need to have overseas production to take advantage of transfer pricing.

:wtf:

Vinko · Nov 18, 2010

redsky49 said:
How do people explain the success of the German economy, where both government involvement, and taxation, and environmental awareness, and "socialized" health care, etc. are in excess of the US?

I'm always glad when someone points this out, because as a business owner, I support gov't involvement in business (it's been here since the beginning

) and "socialized" medicine.

I think one challenge in the US is our immigration. It might also be one of our best assets historically, but what I see as a less cohesive society is something that's hurting us. I'm willing to admit that my concerns are wrong or misdirected however.

Jononon · Nov 18, 2010

edl said:
any company doing business in the US has to be formed as a US entity

No, it does not. Forming a US subsidiary as a corporate entity does, however, provide multinationals with a means of ensuring limited liability in their US operations.

edl · Nov 18, 2010

Jononon - let's make sure we are talking the same thing when we say "doing business" - so yes, a foreign company can issue purchase orders to a US company to buy things without needing a US corporate entity, for example

but if one wants to "do business" in this country (which is a state by state issue and you have to incorporate (or form an llc or partnership or some other recognized corporate form) - so let's take NY as an example:

there are 2 tests - whether you are conducting activities that are core to your business and whether there is enough contact with the state to create taxable presence and jurisdiction for being sued

The traditional test of doing business for purposes of CPLR § 301 is "transacting any business"

The classic statement of that principle is that for a state to assert jurisdiction the defendant must have "certain minimum contacts . . . such that the maintenance of suit does not offend traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice."

So the business's conduct and connection with the forum state must be such that he should reasonably anticipate being brought into court there.

What is important is that it takes a higher level of contact to invoke the qualification requirement. however, not all business activity engaged in by a foreign organization rises to "doing business" in the qualification sense

("[T]he foreign corporation must do more than make a single contract, engage in an isolated piece of business, or an occasional undertaking; it must maintain and carry on business with some continuity of act and purpose."

Most of the law of "doing business" is found in the decisions of courts. Those cases afford no precise measure of the extent of the activities which may be determinative of whether a foreign organization is doing business in New York for purposes of qualification. If the activity is vital and essential to the organization's business, it will have to qualify. If the activity is merely incidental to that business, it will not.

Once you determine that you must qualify to do business in a state and so in the US, you can only qualify as a recognized legal entity

In other words, if you place an ad here, sell out of your home country to someone here, buy something from here for use in your home country you are right - no need to act as a US corporation

but, if you "do business" in the US, you can only do so as a US corporation - so Honda, for example, cannot conduct business in this country (for example, manufacture cars) other than by establishing a US subsidiary

when i started this thread my thinking was not so much whether quincy is good or not - it may be great - even using chinese pumps, even being owned by the swedes - but you cannot say it is an american company - it was meant to be a simple point - thanks

PurdueSD · Nov 18, 2010

***** they sold out to an over seas company!

At least it was to Atlas Copco, they are a top of the line company. They manufacture some of the the best/ most advanced assembly tools period. I had nothing but good experiences working with them during my stint in the auto industry.

edl · Nov 18, 2010

hey, for all we know quincy compressors will be better now thanks to the Swedes

after all, look at what Japan did after we taught them how to build cars!

Jononon · Nov 18, 2010

edl said:
Jononon - let's make sure we are talking the same thing when we say "doing business" - so yes, a foreign company can issue purchase orders to a US company to buy things without needing a US corporate entity, for example

but if one wants to "do business" in this country (which is a state by state issue and you have to incorporate (or form an llc or partnership or some other recognized corporate form)

I assumed you meant 'transacting business'. At least in Texas a certificate of authority does not carry the requirement to for the existing entity to incorporate either in the state in which that certificate is granted or in any other US state. That also appears to be the case in numerous other states, although I cannot find the details of the certification process, as opposed to the code, for NY.

Epic threadjack, I know

edl · Nov 18, 2010

Got it - now we need to stop boring everyone with legal stuff!!

Tim Keith · Feb 9, 2014

This is an old thread, but as far as I know the classic reciprocating compressors are still built in Quincy Illinois, at 3501 Wisman Lane (217) 277-0343. Since the 1960s the ownership of the company changed at least twice. I was born in Quincy. I'm not sure whether all the components are US made anymore. I think the Id plate will state whether the compressor was manufactured and shipped from Quincy Ill, or Bay Minette Alabama.

Quincy Compressors - NOT AMERICAN

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