Advice on refinishing my floor: motorcycle garage

Can I get some GJ advice on how to refinish my floor. I would be happy with a cement floor but am open to other ideas. I work on motorcycles and do a lot of metal work, welding, spill oil gas etc.

As you can see in the photos the outer garage where all the bikes are is the worst offender. I think the PO cut in a drain pipe into the slab, which is the diagonal patch you can see in the photo below. Then there are what looks like filled in expansion joints or just joints in the slab which form a cross in the center of the floor. Overall, I dont really see any settling or cracks which are getting worse. I would just like to visually clean things up and make cleaning up spills easier.



reverse angle


close up of joints in floor center


close up of aggregate


this is the back room in the garage where I have most of the machine tools. The floor here is in really good shape but would love to improve the finish and coat it with something so its easier to clean up oil spills etc. I would imagine this floor would be simple to use a self levelling plasticised cement to finish? Hardest part about doing this floor is moving out the bridgeport and lathe.



close up of aggregate


Do you think I could get away with a self levelling plasticised cement on the outer garage? (the worser of the two floors). The cement may need to be a 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick in some places to fill in the low spots. I could then paint or epoxy or tile over to finish. I have never done such a large cement project and doubt whether I can do a good job on this but I usual can pick things up pretty quick. If it turns out my cement finish isnt so good I could grind and paint or grind and epoxy or just lay tile over the top?

Though biggest question is what is the best way to build up and level off this uneven floor.

Once I get this floor done I can start moving my way up and start on the walls.

I figure I should do the moisture test. Will try to do that tonight.

Can anyone say whether levelling the floor with an epoxy cement would work well. Anything else I would need to know? Depth would probably range from 1/8 to 1/2 inch.

Cheers!

Or maybe a more important question. Can a self leveling epoxy cement be used as a final finish or does it need something on top?

Thanks. Appreciate the help.

Moisture test is in progress. Will let it sit for 24 hours.

Moisture test checks out good.

No one has any advice? I sure could use it.

Will let you know how it goes.

Cheers

Hi,
Would it be helpful for me to reword my post in some way as to get some help? Or maybe you feel this has been covered 100 times.

Just curious if an epoxy cement is what im after. If I could use that as a thin coat over everything.

Or have I somehow upset the gods?

Could really use the help.

Thanks
john

My concrete was a lot worse than yours. I used ceramic tile, which was only .59/sf.

I did it myself.

Hi Jack!

Appreciate the reply

Ive actually been leaning towards tile for a while now.

Did you have to level out your floor before tiling?
if so what did you use.

With tile you have many choices in tile types and thicknesses etc.. You could even check out some larger outdoor tile. I would google tile over a rough floor or something for install details.

I love the look of the larger tiles for a garage. That will be my choice and I think it will work well for you with your floor condition. Will likely need a drop blanket for heavy welding on it but spills should clean up easy.

Sounds great. I might have a line on a bunch of porcelain tile. Will also try to get a professional recommendation and quote, just so I know how much I can save by doing it myself.

Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks all.

Another option is a high density self leveling floor topper. Mapei makes one that we've used with a lot of success, called Ultratop.

Here is a link to a PDF of the technical data sheet: http://www.mapei.com/public/COM/products/Ultratop_TDS_EA.pdf

Thanks for the link PecosBill. That looks like another possibilty. Either way, even if I tile I will still need to do some kind of topping to level everything out I imagine. The outer garage is very uneven in spots.
Thanks!

I am a tile setter by trade, even though now I contract all kinds of commercial flooring. Personally, as much as I love tile, and will use it almost anywhere, unless it were to be only used for show purposes, I'd never use tile in a garage of mine. Tile is too susceptible to damage from point load, and from hard wheeled traffic transitioning from grout joint to tile surface. It works well in showrooms where the only wheeled traffic is on large rubber tires. Just my opinion though.

Yours looks similar to my floor. I had a bad finish job from a contractor. I had it diamond ground and am going to epoxy it this weekend. That should work. I cant imagine droping a hammer on that tile!

Daniel

Hi Firedaniel,

I think I will need to do more than a grind as there are some spots which have about a 1/2" step. Im looking into some of the self levelling toppings. I think even if I went with tile I would need to level it anyway.

Im still undecided on the tile, but if I can do a good job with only cement I might just go with that and an epoxy coat or paint.

The porcelain tile seems pretty resilient and easy to repair but I think that's been debated enough.

I had a pretty rough surface at my first house. The cement was also kind of "flaky" and brittle.

I ended up putting surface cement everywhere, then grinding it smooth with the rental machine and finally painting it with "U-coat-it".

Looking back, it was a lot of work. And since I spread it with a trowel, the surface wasn't perfectly smooth even after the grinding machine.

It went pretty well except for spots where I had efflorescence. Now that I have a product to combat efflorescence I know I could do better if I had to do it again.

Is your cement strong? Is it thick enough? I would start, if possible, by just renting the surfacing machine.

But to be honest I don't feel comfortable recommending anything specific. My results weren't that great. Still, it gives you an idea of somebody in a similar situation.

Hi Mat Mobile

You might not think your results werent great but I would be happy to have your floor. Ill give the grinder some thought. How did the floor stand up over time?

what additive do you use for efflorescence?

The floor is all very solid and there is no cracking except in the spot in this photo where the cement is smooth. This area does vibrate a little when tapped and there are some small cracks. I think it was chopped out for some drain pipes and mortared over poorly. Might be best I just take all that out and try to improve it.







Thanks for your pictures. your before picture does feel similar to mine.

So how much can you remove with one of these floor grinders? Maybe I can level mine out somewhat and patch the worst parts?

How much can I expect to grind down in how much time?

kngkong said:

So how much can you remove with one of these floor grinders? Maybe I can level mine out somewhat and patch the worst parts?

How much can I expect to grind down in how much time?

Click to expand...

You can go all the way from a 7" floor grinder, all the way to a walk behind scarifier. For that size garage, I'd stick with the 7", and like I said, pour a self leveling topping. To try to level out with a grinder is just crazy. If you don't want to use the topper, you can do some smoothing out with Mapei's Mapecem Quickpatch. http://www.mapei.com/public/COM/products/MapecemQuickpatch_TDS_EA.pdf

PecosBill said:

You can go all the way from a 7" floor grinder, all the way to a walk behind scarifier. For that size garage, I'd stick with the 7", and like I said, pour a self leveling topping. To try to level out with a grinder is just crazy. If you don't want to use the topper, you can do some smoothing out with Mapei's Mapecem Quickpatch. http://www.mapei.com/public/COM/products/MapecemQuickpatch_TDS_EA.pdf

Click to expand...

PecosBill,

the space is 468 square feet. Would you still suggest the 7"?

If going with a topping the purpose of the grinding is just to lessen the amount of topping required I gather?

Yeah, that is a pretty small area, the 7" will work perfect. The actual reason for grinding is to remove any impurities, and to profile the concrete. Profiling is necessary in order to provide mechanical bite for the topper. In addition to profiling, you use a primer. If done correctly, the topper is actually denser than concrete, with a compressive strength of 5000psi.

PecosBill said:

Yeah, that is a pretty small area, the 7" will work perfect. The actual reason for grinding is to remove any impurities, and to profile the concrete. Profiling is necessary in order to provide mechanical bite for the topper. In addition to profiling, you use a primer. If done correctly, the topper is actually denser than concrete, with a compressive strength of 5000psi.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your really informative replies. I got some prices on some toppers today and that could be my solution.

Do you suggest going right over these joints with the topper or is there a better way?

If those are control or expansion joints, I would score a straight line along them, map them, and then after pouring the topper cut through it over those joints. You should always honor control joints through your finish floor.

PecosBill said:

If those are control or expansion joints, I would score a straight line along them, map them, and then after pouring the topper cut through it over those joints. You should always honor control joints through your finish floor.

Click to expand...

I dont know if they're expansion joints or not. I have a feeling the floor was poured diy and in sections. I dont see any cracking along the joints. The floor is about 10 years old.

to be safe, I'd probably cut joints over them. If it was poured in section, then those are cold joints. Cold joints would be handled the same way as control joints.

PecosBill said:

to be safe, I'd probably cut joints over them. If it was poured in section, then those are cold joints. Cold joints would be handled the same way as control joints.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Bill!

Just wanted to clarify that I didn't use a grinder... I just talked about grinding the floor. I used a machine similar to this one:



Renting the machine was definatelyr worth it!

Mat Mobile said:

Just wanted to clarify that I didn't use a grinder... I just talked about grinding the floor. I used a machine similar to this one:

Renting the machine was definatelyr worth it!

Click to expand...

Yeah, well the big machine seems like it would be a lot easier on the back.

what additive do you use for efflorescence?

kngkong said:

what additive do you use for efflorescence?

Click to expand...

Your antidote:

http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/concrete-densifier-1-gallon-p-181.html

LegacyIndustrial said:

Your antidote:

http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/concrete-densifier-1-gallon-p-181.html

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that. Luckily I dont really have problem with it, was mainly interested in the product. I think I was suggested something similar for densifying the topcoat.

This is whats been suggested to me here in New Zealand
http://www.rlapolymers.co.nz/pdf/self_levelling_compound/TDS/Super_Level_30.pdf

along with this additive
http://www.giltedge.co.nz/TDS/RFPCA4520_TD.pdf

PecosBill said:

If those are control or expansion joints, I would score a straight line along them, map them, and then after pouring the topper cut through it over those joints. You should always honor control joints through your finish floor.

Click to expand...

Hey PecosBill

Just a quick question on this.

when you said "I would score a straight line along them"
did you mean cut through the existing floor on those filled joint lines?

Not completely through the epoxy sealant, but you want it deep enough that any movement will transfer straight up through your floor, and not blow out the edges of the concrete or topping. You know there is going to be some movement at some point, what you are trying to do is direct how that movement comes up through your finish floor. Without the scoreline, any cracking can zigzag the width of the sealed joint, causing an unsightly crack in your topping, or whatever finish flooring you place there.

sorry, a little confused
I was asking whether you were suggesting to cut out the existing mortar that is currently there as a patch between the joints.

or is that what you just answered?

that's what I answered. Is it a mortar, or could it be an epoxy or polyurea? I was under the impression it was an epoxy joint sealant. Either way, you want to score a straight line in it.

PecosBill said:

that's what I answered. Is it a mortar, or could it be an epoxy or polyurea? I was under the impression it was an epoxy joint sealant. Either way, you want to score a straight line in it.

Click to expand...

Oh ok, cool thanks
no, its a mortar patch.
Ok I understand, will score a line then.
Thanks!

Kong:

We have a cement based resurfacer and grinding wheels.
Our cheapest wheel will do the entire space with room to spare.
Our "One Step Overlay" will cover approx. 50 sq ft. per box @ 1/8" thick
Check our site. www.legacyindustrial.net

Once you fix the floor you can acid stain and seal or epoxy coat, your choice.

Good luck.

LegacyIndustrial said:

Kong:

We have a cement based resurfacer and grinding wheels.
Our cheapest wheel will do the entire space with room to spare.
Our "One Step Overlay" will cover approx. 50 sq ft. per box @ 1/8" thick
Check our site. www.legacyindustrial.net

Once you fix the floor you can acid stain and seal or epoxy coat, your choice.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

Hi Scotty

Thanks for the info. Shipping may be a little pricey to New Zealand though?

Found the link you sent helpful though
cheers
john

HAHA.

I guess I should ask where the project is before I spout out info.
Anyway, you should be able to find the same in your own country as we don't have representation there.

Good luck and I will still offer help if you need it, via e-mail.

in order to do any work on my floor Ill need to move out my Bridgeport and lathe. I rolled both of these in on meter long sections of pipe.

I know tile is pretty durable but if I decide to go with tile do you think the pipe method would cause some damage? Sometimes pipes can be a little rougher than skates or a pallet jack.

Dude, go with tile. I was skeptical at first too. Then Jack proved me wrong. I live in the North East, so we have all seasons. Then I just happened to be in a BMW workshop, tile floors, in the workshop. Ok, now I was thinking. I thought Jack was crazy at first. Called all of my tile friends to pick their brains. Every single one of them told me to go with tile. Only difference they all seemed to recommend is to go with Porcelain, where Jack used ceramic. But his ceramic is holding up great.

Find a thread of Jacks where he has a video of pounding on his floor with a mini sledge hammer. You can see his camera jumping, but the floor stays solid.

I have done some serious jacking, engine pulling, dragging, you name it, without even thinking twice about any damage to the floor. I was even more sure of my floor when my drill landed on it from 8', drill bit down, and nothing happened. If you want the most maintenance free, durable floor, go with tile.

Here is the logic I used to decide.
1. Tile is cheap, really cheap. I went with colors to specifically hide dirt (not totally white, not totally black), so I might have paid a bit more. Still less than $1 per sq ft.
1a. Epoxy is not cheap. **** ton of prep work. Even more expensive to hire pro.
2. You can lay the tile yourself. Once and for all.
2a. You can do Epoxy yourself, but you might mess it up. *********. Look at some of the horror stories.
3. You can repair tile whenever the hell you want, without being a pro. Hammer the broken one out, put a new one in, re-grout. Done.
3a. Good luck fixing epoxy damage. Or if you mess up the epoxy, good luck doing a spot repair not being a pro. Some people get good results, but some people do it all right, but one step is off, and the floor is trash.
4. Durable is not even the word. I have had a huge assortment of cars in my garage. CARS, not even mentioning bikes. Plywood, I can't lift 30 sheets of 3/4 ply in an 8' garage, at least not all 30. I just drag that **** on the floor. Sheetrock, same. Just grab it by the end, and pull it to the floor out of the truck, turn it on the edge, drag. Spilled PL Premium Polyurethane glue on it, stepped into it, smeared it. It dried up, used a razor to scrape floor to remove it. Oil spilled. I didn't realize because the garage was a mess. Is stayed there for at least a couple of days. Wiped it up without residue.
5. To do Epoxy. I would have to basically moisture test, grind, do floor prep, fix level on the floor (bringing in and mix cement anyway), MOVE EVERYTHING OUT. And probably pay a pro like thegarageguy. There is no way I would/could spend that kind of money and take a chance of my floor failing. I would need to pay a pro. So the price is ballooning for epoxy. I also live in NYC, I just cannot MOVE EVERYTHING OUT of the garage. I have no space. I cannot rent some box and put it in-front of the house. I can only move stuff inside the garage.

I can keep going. But people seem to get tight and think I am knocking their floor. I am not. I could have probably had a much more unique design with another flooring system, but I don't ever want to maintain **** on it. I don't want to worry about putting something under my jack, or dragging something on it. I just want to do what I need to do without messing up the floor. I started out looking at racedeck, too much money, and not enough durability. Decided to do Epoxy, but I still needed to fix the floor, pitch was wrong, cracks you name it. Some areas like yours above. Then I would need to pay someone to basically paint my floor. Price was too much at this point. So if I am bringing in cement and fixing the floor, might as well slap tile on it right away. If I was given the chance to do anything different, I wouldn't. I am that happy with it.

Some people say tile is for showroom. Yea ok. I consider all other flooring is just for showroom. Thegarageguy has some nice **** though, but probably with showroom price too.

If you can manage the manual labor yourself, do tile. Sorry for the long post.

My renovation, you can see what I had to start with. Lighting is bad, but the floor was messed up.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90047

Floor done. Durability pics. You can see people getting defensive in this thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966