Rolling/Sliding platform jack for 4 post (backyard buddy) lift

tig · Feb 12, 2011

I scored a Backyard Buddy 4 post, 7000# extended height lift. My original plan was to get a Bend-Pak 9HD and then get two Greg Smith Pro Jack 4500 platform jacks.

But with the killer deal I got on the BYB I am now in a bind: According to the Greg Smith page, because the BYB's ramps have a flat lip, the Greg Smith 4500 will not work. The only Greg Smith jacks that will work are the 3500. But I'm lazy and have my heart set on powered jacks and the 3500 is only available manual.

I've searched the archives for other jacks, or schemes for modifying something, that will work with ramp designs like the BYB. Can any of you recommend something?

The BYB ramps look like this:

My other requirement is that the jacks need to be relatively low profile. My Porsche 911 needs to be able to drive over the jacks...

Backyard Buddy sells a rolling jack but it is outrageously expensive and, frankly, given the lameness of their website and availability of technical details on their products I do not want to buy from them.

Thanks in advance for guidance.

tig · Feb 12, 2011

The "Atlas RJ-70" jack has feet that look like this:

Why wouldn't this work on my BYB runways? I get that I don't have the lip and there might be some concern about failure if the runways separated, but the way the BYB is constructed (extremely robust runways) I can't believe that's an issue. Do I just have confirmation bias? ;-)

tig · Feb 12, 2011

Looking more at that Atlas RJ-70, it's clear it wont work for me. It's too high because it's designed for the Atlas Pro 14K lift which has super tall runways.

So looking at the Direct Lift Pro 4500 again (http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Pro-Jack-4500-Rolling-Jack-p/tpprojack-4500.htm)...

I don't understand why this won't work (unless the height is wrong here too). The rollers will roll fine on the BYB runway rails:

Here's what the runway rail on the Backyard Buddy lift looks like. As you can see it's quite hefty!

The distance from the top of the rail to the top of the runway is 3.25".

Does anyone know how high the Pro Jack 4500 is from the bottom of it's rollers to the bottom of the lift pads? The Greg Smith website does not show this dimension in their diagrams:

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/documents/projack4500_schematic.pdf

darkk · Feb 13, 2011

The hydraulic hand pump can be replaced with and air hydraulic pump that is readily available...

tig · Feb 13, 2011

Great idea!

Can anyone point me at the specific specifications (size, capacity, form factor) that would be required to retrofit a Pro Jack 3500 with an air hydraulic pump?

I looked around that the options are dizzying.

I'm still considering going the 4500 route, so I'd appreciate it if someone could provide how high the Pro Jack 4500 is from the bottom of it's rollers to the bottom of the lift pads.

ovilla · Feb 13, 2011

tig said:
Great idea!

Can anyone point me at the specific specifications (size, capacity, form factor) that would be required to retrofit a Pro Jack 3500 with an air hydraulic pump?

I looked around that the options are dizzying.

I'm still considering going the 4500 route, so I'd appreciate it if someone could provide how high the Pro Jack 4500 is from the bottom of it's rollers to the bottom of the lift pads.

Call Greg Smith and just tell him that you want a Pro Jack 3500 with an air hydraulic pump. He'll work with you and build what you need. Anyway, I understand you got a great deal on the BYB but if you ever do get another lift, go BendPak (and get an HD-9). With the adjustable width ramp on the non-cylinder barring side, I've had no issues dropping engines on my 914's, with my lift. Best of luck to you!

tig · Feb 13, 2011

I am up way too early due to jet lag (I'm in Barcelona!) and I'm trying to do more research.

I just noticed that the Bend-Pak RJ45 looks like it would be super easy to modify for my purpose. Just replace the sliding blocks with larger (vertically) solid ones:

The other advantage of the Bend-Pak RJ45 is it appears to have a much smaller cross bar arrangement. The other jacks I've been looking at, like the Pro Jack 3500/4500 have a largish rectangular block across the middle of the cross-bar. The Bend-Pak is nice and narrow which seems to mean that it will be less in the way while working on the car.

And this leaves me with another question: None of the specs I can find list the DEPTH of these jacks. They provide the width (which is usually adjustable) and height. How deep is the RJ45? How deep is are the Pro Jacks?

tig · Feb 13, 2011

ovilla said:
With the adjustable width ramp on the non-cylinder barring side, I've had no issues dropping engines on my 914's, with my lift. Best of luck to you!

Hey, that's something I haven't considered. Are you saying the 39" width between the ramps won't be wide enough for me to drop my 911 engine through!?!?

mad57 · Feb 14, 2011

tig i made my own jacking tray if you can weld you can have a function tray, i use an air powered 20 ton bottle jack and i also bought a 2 bag flat air bag jack both work really well on my tray and the bag is low profile. heres pics at the time i built this all i had was the bottle jack now with the bag jack i need to build another tray with a wider stance to allow the bag jack to drop down into it. now the jack tray byb sells is way to high for low profile cars so thats why i built this the wheel are made from an unknown bearing which i fabbed and pressed in with press these grade 8 bolts, in reality i really dont think i needed this to glide on wheels plain old plastic glides would work just as easy my next one will be plastic glides.

mad57 · Feb 14, 2011

sorry heres a pic of the bag jack i bought from greg smith. works good a bit cheap but does what its job is.

ket-tek · Feb 14, 2011

mad57 said:
sorry heres a pic of the bag jack i bought from greg smith. works good a bit cheap but does what its job is.

What exactly do you refer to about it when you say it's a bit cheap? I've been looking at these and have been interested in possibly picking one up, but now you make me second guess, because they certainly aren't cheap as far as actual cost goes.

ket-tek · Feb 14, 2011

tig said:
The other advantage of the Bend-Pak RJ45 is it appears to have a much smaller cross bar arrangement. The other jacks I've been looking at, like the Pro Jack 3500/4500 have a largish rectangular block across the middle of the cross-bar. The Bend-Pak is nice and narrow which seems to mean that it will be less in the way while working on the car.

And this leaves me with another question: None of the specs I can find list the DEPTH of these jacks. They provide the width (which is usually adjustable) and height. How deep is the RJ45? How deep is are the Pro Jacks?

I've been happy with the RJ-45, it lifts fast and is totally stable. The slider blocks are just bolted on and could be a good platform to modify. The one you posted a picture of is slightly different, the pics I posted are of the actual hd-9 application. I had these particular pics already online so I linked them for you. I can go take actual measurements of specific parts of the jack if you need them to see if it is something you could modify to work.

Just let me know what measurements you need..

You can gain a touch more clearance taking off the lift pads on the sides, and also take away the possibility of catching a tire on the edge of the pad.

I actually do most lifting directly on the center bar at the pumpkin, or engine crossmember and not on the lift pads. Kinda like this corvette forum pic someone posted:

ket-tek · Feb 14, 2011

Actually now that I look at it again, it's kinda looks like these are cut down blocks to allow the jack to drop below the runways to allow more chassis clearance on the top side under the car.

tig said:

mad57 · Feb 14, 2011

ket-tek said:
What exactly do you refer to about it when you say it's a bit cheap? I've been looking at these and have been interested in possibly picking one up, but now you make me second guess, because they certainly aren't cheap as far as actual cost goes.

Ok let me explain its no selson jack but then again the price is alot cheaper, the part i thought was cheesey was the raise and release valve assembly its came to me loose and was stripped at anchor point so i fixed that and sometimes when its up and i let it down once the weight is off it its really hard to get the plate out from under the car it doesnt go all the way down under its own weight, i have used selson jacks at the shop and they go flat quick...maybe its new, maybe i need to put a splash of oil in the air to help it along, ill keep you posted but it works like it should over all def worth the $250 i paid, and its portable for other tasks not just the lift, alot lighter than the floor jack and easier.

mad57 · Feb 14, 2011

tig save your money and build one like i did , you will be able to put a jack at any point not just the path of those fixed trollys, you could buy 2 air over 20 ton bottle jacks or 1 air bag jack and do every thing you need to get the back or front up off the deck. just my 2 cents.

tig · Feb 15, 2011

I'm not interested in building my own. Plus I really want extendable arms.

Thanks kek-tek for the details. Very helpful. Would you mind measuring the RJ45 from the very bottom of the jack (lowest point) to the top of the jack pads?

Also, measure from the bottom of the sliding plastic pieces to the top of the jack pads? The diagram is confusing and I want to know for sure.

I still would love to know the dimension of the Pro Jack 4500 from bottom of wheels to top of the pads... Anyone?

mad57 · Feb 15, 2011

Not sure what you plan on wrenching on or lifting but one thing to consider the extendable arms scissor jacks take up alot of room under where your jacking, the points of jacking on the car and then all the works under it and off in front of it for the pump, i have used these in a buddy shop great to have but also could be in the way if what your working on is near or around the jack. something to consider.

ket-tek · Feb 20, 2011

tig said:
I'm not interested in building my own. Plus I really want extendable arms.

Thanks kek-tek for the details. Very helpful. Would you mind measuring the RJ45 from the very bottom of the jack (lowest point) to the top of the jack pads?

Also, measure from the bottom of the sliding plastic pieces to the top of the jack pads? The diagram is confusing and I want to know for sure.

I still would love to know the dimension of the Pro Jack 4500 from bottom of wheels to top of the pads... Anyone?

Sorry Tig, grabbing those measurements slipped my mind the other day.

The Total hieght of the unit as if it was just sitting on the ground is 7.75" to the top of the flat bar/pad surface, the pads curl up on the corners .25" so including those it is 8" total, I usually always remove the pads when pulling on or off the lift.

The nylon slider blocks are the same height as the metal they mount to, so they are flush with the bottom of the unit. As i mentioned that one pic you posted has modified/shortened slider blocks, the way they are in the pic the unit will hang below the plane of the bottom of the runways and when it sits on the ground the jack would lift up off the channels the distance they hang down.

I see why the diagram I posted is confusing now, as I just noticed it is outdated and shows the older style rolling jack not the nylon slider block version.

Let me know if you need any other specs, I'll try to respond faster for ya next time.

tig · Feb 23, 2011

Now I'm really confused!

I talked to a guy at BendPak (Joon) who claims the RJ-45 no longer comes with sliding blocks but with rollers. But even their latest photos on the website show sliding blocks. Now I think he may have been confused about what jack i was asking about.

Does anyone have a BendPak RJ-45 that does NOT have sliding blocks?

@ket-tek - how old is your jack? When did you purchase it? Do you mind me asking where you got it?

tig · Feb 23, 2011

ket-tek said:
Just let me know what measurements you need..

@ket-tek - Could you measure the height of that bracket the nylon blocks are attached to?

Also, it's width (outside of the metal to the face of the nylon block)?

lastly, what's the width between the runways on your lift. It looks like your runways are pretty close together? The jack doesn't seem extended at all.

Thanks!

rbarry · Feb 23, 2011

Could you elaborate on the killer deal you got on the BYB? Did you buy direct from BYB or did you pick it up used? Thanks.

tig · Feb 23, 2011

rbarry said:
Could you elaborate on the killer deal you got on the BYB? Did you buy direct from BYB or did you pick it up used? Thanks.

I bought it used. $1000. :shocking:

e-tek · Feb 23, 2011

If I where you I'd buy an RJ45 and modify it like Mad did on his jack cross bar. There's no way the runners are going to spread as they are bolted to the front and rear cross members. Plus, if you did it JUST LIKE Mad's, you'd have that top plate extending over the ramp in case a wheel breaks or slips.
You'll be happy with the RJ45 - I am!!!

tig · Feb 23, 2011

e-tek said:
If I where you I'd buy an RJ45 and modify it like Mad did on his jack cross bar. There's no way the runners are going to spread as they are bolted to the front and rear cross members. Plus, if you did it JUST LIKE Mad's, you'd have that top plate extending over the ramp in case a wheel breaks or slips.
You'll be happy with the RJ45 - I am!!!

Excellent idea.

Can I ask:

1) When did you buy that RJ45 in the photos?
2) Where did you buy it?

3) (MOST IMPORTANT) can you measure from the floor to the bottom of the nylon sliders?

Is Garage Supply Equipment a good supplier? They have free shipping...
https://www.gesusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=119420

tig · Feb 25, 2011

Ok, I got confirmation that the currently available Bend-Pak RJ45 bridge jack has steel wheels that roll on the lip of the rail on the runways. I was able to get the following photos of this newer RJ45 design.

EDIT: Note these photos are actually of the BendPak RJ-7 jack. Bend-Pak assures me that the RJ-45 is identical except the RJ-45 goes lower in height.

This 3rd picture tells the story pretty well and really disappoints me.

I wonder if there is any way I can find an older RJ45 with the plastic sliders for sale anywhere?

Maybe one of you with the old style jack would consider trading your old style 'end pieces' for the new style?

I have a welder friend who I'm going to ask about what it would take to modify this new design to fit my rails. It's just steel after all

c39er · Feb 25, 2011

For normal Bend-Pak lift use I actually really like the steel roller wheels-makes it so easy to position/ move the jacks! I read some where the plastic sliders made it kinda hard to push the jack along the runways, At 300+ pounds.

ket-tek · Feb 26, 2011

Hey tig, I will get those other measurements you asked for when I'm working on some stuff out there tomorrow. (as it's 3:30 am now)

I bought them from Brian at asedeals.com in Febuary of 2010.

From what I understand is the bigger jacks for th HD-14 and larger lifts have always had wheels, and the RJ-45 did as well, then the slider block version was sold for a while only on the RJ-45 size, and now a new style roller version that differs from the original older roller is now available.

I've read about some people not liking the slider. But I love mine. They are easy to move once you get it started sliding, and keeping the tracks clean of debris makes a huge difference in ease. I like that it has to deliberatly be moved because when beating on a car in the air it's not gonna slide on ya.

Look closely at my HD9 pics vs E-teks pics. Particular in the runways. He has had his for a couple years, mine since Feb 2010, note how the runways' channels are in different positions. Mine are flush at the bottom of ramps, his are near the top of the ramps. And it looks to be is uses the half height slider blocks shown in the pic you posted earlier in the thread before I showed mine.

Cryptic1911 · Feb 26, 2011

Yeah, the new RJ45 jacks have the rolling wheels. I bought one in October

c39er · Feb 26, 2011

The steel wheel roller jacks won't dangerously roll with a load. The wheel assemblies don't support any working load. A heavy load on the jack pushes the jack frame down on the the runway rails . The roller wheels are supported by springs that give under a working load.
Bob

JSK · Feb 26, 2011

Noticed this thread so I thought I'd offer some input.

To get the jacks at their optimum minimum clearance when lowered, they should clear the floor by no more 1/4" when the lift is lowered all the way. If you think about it, any additional clearance only makes the jack sit higher. If you look at some of the photos, you can see, for the lack of better, “wasted space” underneath the jack with the lift resting on the ground. BendPak recently redesigned these jacks (newer roller style) to reduce the lowered resting height by relocating the position of the end plates.

Jeff

SSAAHemiFan · Feb 26, 2011

You should really check out the Hydraulic platform jack that Backyard Buddy offers.

At the time I bought my lift it was about ~$1500.

The website is a little tough, I wish they would spend more time on educating consumers but honestly they don't have trouble selling lifts.

I talked with the owner many times over the years, toured the plant , etc. They have good stuff and care about quality.

I got the regular rolling bridge when I got my lift as I was out of money.

It is VERY well made but using bottle and sissor jacks is a PITA.

tig · Feb 26, 2011

I talked to BYB about their rolling jack and it was way more than $1500. Plus shipping.

In addition, they could not provide me with any photos or even a PDF with specifications. I do not trust any company that in 2011 has such as shi**y online presence and lack of detailed product information.

I like my BYB lift. It is really, really, well made. I love the fact that it has casters & I can move it. I like the design. But if I had to pay full price for it (I got it for $1000!) I would NOT buy one. I would get the Bend-Pak HD9.

ket-tek · Feb 26, 2011

SSAAHemiFan said:
You should really check out the Hydraulic platform jack that Backyard Buddy offers.

tig said:
I talked to BYB about their rolling jack and it was way more than $1500. Plus shipping.

In addition, they could not provide me with any photos or even a PDF with specifications.

I had the exact experience. They could not provide a single detail I asked about like the weight, dimensions, nor a real~full size picture of it. I was basicly told "just buy it because it is best jack in the entire world" and all requests for specs or other info were ignored.

I had liked the idea that it worked off the hydro system of the lift, makes sense and seems a great concept. But after researching I realized it would not work for my needs anyway. 90% of the time I use the center bar of the RJ to lift, not the arms, and the byb has no center it only has arms.

BP tech support and Jeff both answered every single specific measurement/operation question I had. This goes a long way with me.

ket-tek · Feb 26, 2011

c39er said:
The steel wheel roller jacks won't dangerously roll with a load. The wheel assemblies don't support any working load. A heavy load on the jack pushes the jack frame down on the the runway rails . The roller wheels are supported by springs that give under a working load.
Bob

I kinda thought they would not roll under load, as I didn't think they would be sold if they would.. But have not seen one in person, or good up close operation pics.

This makes sense though, and sounds like a great system. Anyone got close up pics of the the way this version sits in/on the rails?

tig · Feb 27, 2011

ket-tek said:
Anyone got close up pics of the the way this version sits in/on the rails?

I think the 3 photos I posted above show it pretty clearly.

It appears that inside those little boxes on either side of the end piece is a "fork" that holds the roller on the bottom and has a spring around it on top.

Once more than the weight of the jack is present, those springs compress, causing the angled bar welded across the face to meet the runway rail, supporting the weight of the car.

I spoke with a welder/fabricator yesterday and have decided I'm going to order one of these. I have lots of options for modifying this to fit the Backyard Buddy's rail system.

SSAAHemiFan · Feb 27, 2011

Boy... I don't blame either of you for passing on the BB platform. If I got that type of customer support I would pass also.

I was buying 2 lifts at the same time, in person, cash deal so maybe that changed things.

It shouldn't.

tig · Feb 28, 2011

JSK said:
Noticed this thread so I thought I'd offer some input.

To get the jacks at their optimum minimum clearance when lowered, they should clear the floor by no more 1/4" when the lift is lowered all the way. If you think about it, any additional clearance only makes the jack sit higher. If you look at some of the photos, you can see, for the lack of better, “wasted space” underneath the jack with the lift resting on the ground. BendPak recently redesigned these jacks (newer roller style) to reduce the lowered resting height by relocating the position of the end plates.

Jeff

Excellent advice Jeff. Thanks.

tig · Feb 28, 2011

I have decided to pull the trigger on a RJ-45. I have spoken to someone who can weld (I really want to learn, but do not have the time right now and this would not be a good 1st project) and am confident that no matter what the RJ-45 can be modified to work.

I'll post updates as progress is made....

Photo · Mar 1, 2011

tig said:
The "Atlas RJ-70" jack has feet that look like this:

Why wouldn't this work on my BYB runways? I get that I don't have the lip and there might be some concern about failure if the runways separated, but the way the BYB is constructed (extremely robust runways) I can't believe that's an issue. Do I just have confirmation bias? ;-)

Tig,

Actually, this type of jack bridge should work fine.

As far as having no lip. there's an easy way around that. Go pick up a couple of lengths of 1" x 1 1/2" x 3/16" (or whatever size you need) and cut them to fit the length of your lift. Clean the paint off the lift and mount them as follows:

You should be able to stitch weld the angle in place using 2" long welds every 3 or 4 inches. Alternate the upper and lower welds. If you mount them like this, the weight on the wheels of the jacking bridge will be directly on the inside of the angle iron and on the lift. The inside vertical edge of the angle will actually add strength to the lift.

PM me if you have any questions.

Lane

tig · Mar 1, 2011

Photo said:
Tig,

Actually, this type of jack bridge should work fine.

As far as having no lip. there's an easy way around that. Go pick up a couple of lengths of 1" x 1 1/2" x 3/16" (or whatever size you need) and cut them to fit the length of your lift. Clean the paint off the lift and mount them as follows:

You should be able to stitch weld the angle in place using 2" long welds every 3 or 4 inches. Alternate the upper and lower welds. If you mount them like this, the weight on the wheels of the jacking bridge will be directly on the inside of the angle iron and on the lift. The inside vertical edge of the angle will actually add strength to the lift.

PM me if you have any questions.

Lane

Appreciate the suggestion Lane, but I do not want to modify my rails. I have rolling bridge platform that would then not work.

Rolling/Sliding platform jack for 4 post (backyard buddy) lift

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