Rolling/Sliding platform jack for 4 post (backyard buddy) lift

[tig]

Lookee what showed up today:

While I was alone and unable to move it into position on the lift, I did hook air up and give it a test run:

 

[johnny]

Not sure what brand 3 bag jack I have but it's great, east to move around fast safe lifting.

What exactly do you refer to about it when you say it's a bit cheap? I've been looking at these and have been interested in possibly picking one up, but now you make me second guess, because they certainly aren't cheap as far as actual cost goes.

 

[JSK]

Tig,
How about we make you the official "Help BendPak come up with a jack solution for Backyard Buddy Lifts”….guy.

I'm not fond of your rail configuration because you have nothing to keep the jack from falling off. What were you planning? You’ll have to come up with some way to lock our wheel outriggers in place.

We’ll need to focus on installed height and a slide or roller assembly that will work with your rails.

Let me know what needs to be done to make the jack work. I’ll fabricate and send the parts.

Jeff
BendPak

 

[c39er]

As has been said before-there is no lift company that takes care of its customers like BP! Glad I have one too!
Bob

 

[tig]

Tig,
How about we make you the official "Help BendPak come up with a jack solution for Backyard Buddy Lifts”….guy.

I'm not fond of your rail configuration because you have nothing to keep the jack from falling off. What were you planning? You’ll have to come up with some way to lock our wheel outriggers in place.

We’ll need to focus on installed height and a slide or roller assembly that will work with your rails.

Let me know what needs to be done to make the jack work. I’ll fabricate and send the parts.

Jeff
BendPak

Jeff, it's AWESOME that you are on this forum and even MORE AWESOME for you to offer to help! I'm sure you'd sell at least a few "BYB kits" for the RJ45 if we can come up with something elegant.

First, I want to get the topic of the jack falling off out of the way. Here's how I see this. There are only two possible ways the jack could fall off of the lift:

1. The runways on the lift could separate. Given the fact that the BYB runways are fixed in place and are VERY stout, I see this as a virtual impossibility. FAR worse things than the jack falling would have to occur for the runways to separate from each other the 2+ inches that would be required for the jack to slip off.
2. The wheel outriggers could slide IN. As it is now these outriggers are secured by four "set bolts" (which, by the way are too short unless the outriggers are pulled out too far to fit between the BYB runways; I had to buy some 30mm bolts to make this work). To REALLY secure this I plan on drilling holes in the outrigger beams where the set-bolts press on them. Given there's no need to ever adjust the width on a BYB after installation this will work fine. The outriggers need to be 2" extended on each side to fit the 39.5" width required (2" measured from the edge of the outrigger slot to the back face of the outrigger end plate). If you do build a 'BYB kit' you'd want to pre-drill holes in the outriggers at this point and change the bolts you provide to be at least 30mm long.

I had just enough time yesterday afternoon to get some local highschool muscle to help move the jack into place, get some 30mm bolts for the outriggers, and do a quick test to see how it works "as-is". It will work "OK" as is for some cars, but I really need to lose the 1.25" of extra height in order for my Porsche to fit over it gracefully. The way it rides on the runway rails is wonky:

The J bracket on the outrigger that is supposed to ride atop the BendPak lift's rail edge sticks out slightly past the outrigger roller housings and thus likes to bind on the welds of the BYB rail; preventing the jack from rolling smoothly. I think this will be best addressed by replacing the J bracket with a solid piece of steel ~10"W x 5/8" H x 7/8" D. The D dimension will be the most critical; it may need to be closer to 1"; I'll measure more today...

This bracket (or beam when replaced) also needs to be mounted about 1/4 to 1/2" higher on the end plate. The springs in the roller assemblies are compressing too far and the bracket drags on the runway when no weight is on the jack.

The rollers need to be flat bottomed, not V shaped. As is they are effing up the paint on my runways. No matter what they will eventually wear it off, but right now they just cut into it.

Lastly, the most critical and needed change is the rollers need to be 1.25" higher relative to he rest of the jack. This could be accomplished either by attaching the end-plates 1.25" higher to the outrigger beams, or having the roller assemblies mounted 1.25" higher on the end-plates. If I were modifying the outriggers the former would be the easiest, but if we are building new outriggers then the later would be better.

I'll take more photos this morning but here's a glamor shot:

 

[tig]

Here's a series of photos of the lift to help illustrate:

Shows that the outriggers need to be extended 2" to properly fit the BYB lift. Note the set-bolt hole.

Also note that there's about 1/4" space between the face of the outrigger roller housings and the edge of the runways.

This shows the BYB runway rails. 1.5" wide with ~1/4" wide welds. The rollers & end-plate support bracket need to be 1/4" inboard of the edge of the runways for the jack to move smoothly.

Good shot indicating the 1/4" gap between the roller assemblies/bracket and the runways. I think I want to put ~1/4" nylon on the faces of the roller assemblies to make it track straight and avoid hitting the welds. The BYB jack platform does this and it works really well.

Turns out the jack is actually only 3/4" too high (not 1.5" as I previously noted). This illustrates that the jack needs to be lowered 3/4".

I pulled a roller assembly apart to see exactly how it was made. As expected there's
a steel rod attached to a fork with the roller's axles welded in. A spring is intended to hold the jack's weight up but not a car.

One idea to adapt this to the BYB lift is to simply

1) Remove a coil or two from the springs, allowing the rollers to depress into the housing 3/4" further than they do

and

2) Move the end-plate L bracket UP on the end-plate 3/4". I actually would perfer if the L bracket was replaced by a solid steel block who's bottom was 3/4" higher than the current L bracket. This would provide a more positive contact area between the jack and the rail.

Lastly, a shot that really shows the end-rigger detail well, including the L bracket:

Now that I have really looked at this closely, I think the right approach is the following:

• Drill holes in the outrigger beams at the appropriate point to allow a 30mm long set-bolt to go through, positively keeping the outrigger beams from moving. The hole should be drilled a point that makes the outriggers be extended exactly 2" per the photo above.
• Use a set of roller springs that are 3/4" shorter than the current springs.
• Use rollers that are flat bottomed, not V-shaped.
• Replace the L bracket with a similar bracket (or solid peice of steel) who's bottom edge is 3/4" higher than currently. The outer face of this new peice should be 1/4" closer to the face of the end-plate in order to better clear the welds on the rails.
• Screw peices of 1/4" thick nylon to the faces of the roller assemblies to make rolling of the jack more pecise.

Jeff, can you help me make this happen? Can you source flat bottomed rollers?

 

[ket-tek]

Great work Tig! Great to see you going for it.. It really does seem to be not 'too' bad of a job to convert. The wheeled RJ defiantly looks to be a better candidate for this than the nylon slider would have been..

The flat wheels look to be key, hopefully you can source these.

Also on getting shorter springs couldn't you just cut the originals down some?

 

[c39er]

For the wheels why not use round stock steel rod and cut to length and drill the shaft hole?

 

[JSK]

Tag,

Great photos...thanks.

I think great plan of attack…

Make new flat rollers. Instead of using steel, maybe use UHMW nylon wheels with bearings to protect the finish.

Add horizontal wheels as well to stabilize against runway exterior and to keep wheels away from the rail welds.

At first I thought to re-weld the outrigger bars (in relation to the wheel assemblies) 1" to reduce the resting height of the jack, (3/4" plus baseplate thickness) but I think just using a shorter spring would just as easily solve the problem. I’d have to check to make sure shorter springs carries the dead weight adequately.

Remove the steel angle rail catcher and replace with square steel bar. This bar will carry the loaded jack once the wheels retract. Perhaps add a strip of UHMW to underside of steel bar to minimize paint finish wear.

I’ll plan to send two new outriggers. Perhaps you can advise where I should drill the holes for the securing bolts. Assuming your runways are indeed 39.5” apart, I’m sure I can do the math, but it may help to double check to see what you’d guesstimate.

I will send photos as things get going. Should be able to get started this week. Should not take too long. Will call it the BYB-45 :>)

Jeff

 

[tig]

Make new flat rollers. Instead of using steel, maybe use UHMW nylon wheels with bearings to protect the finish.

Sounds great.

Add horizontal wheels as well to stabilize against runway exterior and to keep wheels away from the rail welds.

Not sure this is needed. Seems cool, but un-necessarily complex.

At first I thought to re-weld the outrigger bars (in relation to the wheel assemblies) 1" to reduce the resting height of the jack, (3/4" plus baseplate thickness) but I think just using a shorter spring would just as easily solve the problem. I’d have to check to make sure shorter springs carries the dead weight adequately.

The nice thing about just playing with the springs is that it's easy to tweak. Springs are relatively cheap and trying different lengths should be easy.

Remove the steel angle rail catcher and replace with square steel bar. This bar will carry the loaded jack once the wheels retract. Perhaps add a strip of UHMW to underside of steel bar to minimize paint finish wear.

As long as the steel bar is held above the rail when no load is on the jack the UHMW should not be needed. If it is used then I think we'll want to mount the steel bars a little higher (thickness of UHMW strip) to accomodate?

I’ll plan to send two new outriggers. Perhaps you can advise where I should drill the holes for the securing bolts. Assuming your runways are indeed 39.5” apart, I’m sure I can do the math, but it may help to double check to see what you’d guesstimate.

Just measured. The holes need to be precisely 4" from the end plate. See pic:

I will send photos as things get going. Should be able to get started this week. Should not take too long. Will call it the BYB-45 :>)

Excited to see progress. You rock. Thanks.

 

[e-tek]

Noticed this thread so I thought I'd offer some input.

To get the jacks at their optimum minimum clearance when lowered, they should clear the floor by no more 1/4" when the lift is lowered all the way. If you think about it, any additional clearance only makes the jack sit higher. If you look at some of the photos, you can see, for the lack of better, “wasted space” underneath the jack with the lift resting on the ground. BendPak recently redesigned these jacks (newer roller style) to reduce the lowered resting height by relocating the position of the end plates.

Jeff

Well I sure wish I had seen this thread since last time I posted!! I had no idea BP had re-designed the rails and jack - and that it now has WHEELS!!! I'm glad everyone is now getting wheels and a lowered jack height - because both are issues that needed to be addressed. As I mentioned in another thread, even my Galaxie 500 hits the jack - and it's no low-rider! I would guess many cars would have that issue.

So my question now (for JSK!) is: how can I retro-fit my RJ to have wheels and sit lower?!

 

[JSK]

Ok guys,

Sorry for the delay people - been traveling quite a bit lately.

Tig,

I'll get these on the way. We'll see how this first round goes. Here is what the new parts look like. As a precaution, I am going to let you drill the “lock down” holes precisely where you need them. I know you said 4" from the end, but to be safe, you can drill to suit.

Here is what I came up with.

Jeff

 

[tig]

This is flipping brilliant!

Brilliant in three ways: The design, the execution, AND THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT by Bend Pak! Wow.

Really looking forward to trying these out Jeff!

 

[maxxpower]

I know not relevant to the current conversation, but I have just ordered a BP HD9XW from the good people of Babco up here in the great white north and since Jeff is lurking (in a very good way of course) on this thread I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question.. what is better for my new lift, hydraulic fluid or Dextron?? I assume what is best for the lift would also be best for my RJ45 that is coming also? (I've already emailed Babco to ensure I get a new style RJ45 and not an older version from stock.)

Can't wait to get my new lift!!!

Thanks... Greg

 

[tig]

Hey Greg, I'd appreciate it if we keep this thread on-topic. Can you please create another thread with your question? I'm sure Jeff will see it

 

[maxxpower]

Sorry tig, didn't realize this forum was so critical. I actually thought since the question also related to what fluid to use in the RJ45 it had some relevance.

Anyways, I'll look for my answers elsewhere in the future.

Greg

 

[JSK]

Dexron ATF - good conditioners and better when cold.

 

[tig]

Woooo-hoooo!

Jeff at Bend-Pak has come through!

Today these showed up at my house:

I immediately got to installing them in the RJ-45. I quickly discovered that one of them was bowed outward (probably from the welding). I'm assuming Jeff didn't test fit them because there were no scratches on the paint. They probably weren't test fitted because Jeff & I had discussed him having me drill the holes for the lateral support. You can see here how bowed it was:

I could not get it to slide into the RJ-45. Jeff @ Bend-Pak was quick to suggest a solution: With my car on the lift, use the cross beam on the lift to compress the outrigger by lowering the lift! Worked perfectly.

I had to make a few tweaks to Jeff's handi-work to make it perfect:

1. To lower the jack, Jeff had his guys cut down the springs that support the rollers. One of the springs is slightly shorter (or just compresses more) than the others. I simply added a thick washer (maybe 3/8") inside that wheel assembly to fix.
2. The plastic strips on the sides of the new support bars just barely touch the welds on the BYB rail when there is weight on the jack. I simply used my Dremel to take about 1/8" off and bevel the bottom edge of these plastic pieces.

With these flat rollers and the plastic guide strips the jack rolls on the Backyard Buddy rails like butter. It has almost no lateral angular twist and just feels great when sliding!

The modification lowered the non-compressed height of the jack by 3/4". The weight of a vehicle would lower it just shy of 1/4" more. This is ALMOST perfect but it is as good as it is going to get without making the wheel assemblies themselves shorter; remember, the mod Jeff made was twofold: (a) shorten the springs, and (b) replace the angle support rail with a 1x1" steel bar that sits 3/4" higher than the regular angle support rail.

The "almost perfect" part is that when there is no weight on the jack, it actually could stand to be another 1/4" lower. If so then when the lift were on the ground, the jack would be on the ground too. As it is now, when the lift is on the ground, the jack is 1/4" up.

Thankfully my Porsche's tow hooks clear the jack by about 1/2" now so unless I had a lower car that additional 1/4" wouldn't make a difference.

Here are some photos showing the detail of just how well this modification works.

I took this before final adjustment of the outriggers. Now there is no visible gap between the side of the runway and the plastic strips.

Good shot showing how the outriggers now sit on the rails:

The flat rollers are perfect!

This shot from underneath shows the alignment with the rails:

How perfect is this?!?!

The final product flexing it's muscles:

Another glam shot:

Jeff @ Bend-Pak: Thank you.

 

[ket-tek]

How sweet Tig! Jeff always comes thru, he helped me out in the past as well. BP support for the diy guys is completely above all the other companies.

It's nice to give current BYB owners a good powered jack solution that actually works with the lift points on a larger variety of cars.

Now put that RJ to work and post up some pics!!

 

[JSK]

tig,

Glad to see the parts worked out. We'll be sure to note the final finish touches for future builds. It looks like we'll be offering a BYB jack solution in the not-too-distant future. (RJ-45BYB)

If you get the chance – maybe you could confirm the exact location we should drill the “lock-down hole” in the outrigger arms to convert to fixed width rather than adjustable.

And thank you too.

 

[tig]

If you get the chance – maybe you could confirm the exact location we should drill the “lock-down hole” in the outrigger arms to convert to fixed width rather than adjustable.

Will do - I haven't drilled them yet because I wanted to make sure it's aligned correctly. I think I have decided that I'm not going to drill holes all the way through the outriggers though - just about 1/2 the way through. Otherwise, the bolts will only secure the outriggers side to side, not front to back and I'm afraid it'll rattle/be sloppy.

Note that with 35mm long bolts there is about 3/8" thread showing when they are cranked down hard. So I probably will go with 40mm.

 

[The Wizard]

Noticed this thread so I thought I'd offer some input.

To get the jacks at their optimum minimum clearance when lowered, they should clear the floor by no more 1/4" when the lift is lowered all the way. If you think about it, any additional clearance only makes the jack sit higher. If you look at some of the photos, you can see, for the lack of better, “wasted space” underneath the jack with the lift resting on the ground. BendPak recently redesigned these jacks (newer roller style) to reduce the lowered resting height by relocating the position of the end plates.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

With the newly designed RJ45, what is the new "lowered resting height"??
When I bought my HD9 I almost pulled the trigger on the RJ45, but clearance issues killed that idea real quick. Now there might be hope afterall.

Any chance you can you possibly share a pic like ket-tek did?

Congrats tig on getting a workable solution for your BYB.
Major kudos to Jeff making the RJ45BYB as well.

 

[tig]

Any chance you can you possibly share a pic like ket-tek did?

Here's a pic showing the height of the RJ-45 with the BYB-45 modification. As you can see the height, at the tips of the lift plates, is 3.5".

As indicated above, Jeff/BendPak could drop this another 1/4" and the jack's bottom would not touch the floor w/out a car on it. But for me it's great...my Porsche fits over it fine (I remove the lift plates just to be safe).

 

[The Wizard]

Here's a pic showing the height of the RJ-45 with the BYB-45 modification. As you can see the height, at the tips of the lift plates, is 3.5".

As indicated above, Jeff/BendPak could drop this another 1/4" and the jack's bottom would not touch the floor w/out a car on it. But for me it's great...my Porsche fits over it fine (I remove the lift plates just to be safe).

Thanks for the information and pic, tig. Very helpful.

Ok, so your pic shows 3.5 inches. W/o the lift plates, would it be safe to say the clearance would be 3 inches? That's what it appears to be...

 

[tig]

Thanks for the information and pic, tig. Very helpful.

Ok, so your pic shows 3.5 inches. W/o the lift plates, would it be safe to say the clearance would be 3 inches? That's what it appears to be...

Those bolts sit up a bit, so it's probably closer to 3.25.

 

[2talltary]

Try UHMW or teflon. They both have great wear resistance and have low friction of any plastics. http://www.iplasticsupply.com/ is a good place to start.

 

[The Wizard]

Woooo-hoooo!

Jeff at Bend-Pak has come through!

Wish I could say the same thing. Two questions directed at Jeff in two different threads, and then a PM have gone ignored. This was months ago...

 

[ket-tek]

Wish I could say the same thing. Two questions directed at Jeff in two different threads, and then a PM have gone ignored. This was months ago...

What's the questions? Maybe someone here has some insight.

 

[trtoolman]

Hi... I just purchased a BYB this summer and I am looking for a sliding jack. How can I reach Jeff from BendPak to see if they can make a modified sliding jack for me also.
Thanks.