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How many ratchet teeth do you consider fine tooth?

What's the lowest tooth count you consider a fine tooth ratchet?

  • 36 teeth

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • 40 teeth

    Votes: 3 2.0%
  • 45 teeth

    Votes: 29 19.6%
  • 60 teeth

    Votes: 84 56.8%
  • 72 teeth

    Votes: 30 20.3%

  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .

matthew

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So there's tons of reference to "fine tooth" ratchets on this board, when gets me wondering - what do you consider fine tooth? Obviously the answer has changed a little bit over time, and might vary somewhat with application and even with drive size, but where would you make the cutoff as the lowest tooth count you would consider 'fine'? (Of course it's also a relatively measure - if a tool maker offers 20 and 30 tooth ratchets, th 30 is 'fine').

Keeping in mind that Snap-On used to call 36 tooth 'fine,' my defininition would probably consider fine toothed to mean anything that has extra teeth to make the job easier, more than the minimum required to simply do the job. So I'd say is 45, since for the most part 36-40 teeth are enough or more than enough for even fairly tight quarters. Others seem to consider those relatively course, though...
 
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Fedwrench

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I consider anything 45 tooth and more to be fine toothed. I also feel that anything over 60 teeth is overkill but, that's just me, Useful but, overkill the same.:beer:
Given the hot selling 80, 84, 88, and 100 tooth models, you want to up the tooth poll selections.
 
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matthew

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Given the hot selling 80, 84, 88, and 100 tooth models, you want to up the tooth poll selections.
Thought about it, but I don't think too many people buying a 100+ tooth ratchet would argue the 72 isn't fine tooth. It just seems that the terms 'fine' and 'coarse' are applied so frequently here, it might be useful to define what we mean...
 

kc-steve

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The technological "era" might also play a part in the definition of fine tooth ratchet. Thirty or forty years ago a 40-tooth ratchet was often considered by some to be a fine-tooth, while today I think it's more like 60-tooth. That's how I voted and I may change my opinion in a decade or so. :D

Steve
 

Kirbot

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I'd say 45 teeth.

I think thats what some of the older Sk ratchets were.
I definitely consider them to be "fine tooth" ratchets.
 

wrenchr

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Under 45 teeth you can really feel the difference and 45 and over is real close in feel.
 

porphyre

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Under 45 teeth you can really feel the difference and 45 and over is real close in feel.

Bingo!

24 tooth = 15 degrees per tooth
36 tooth = 10 degrees per tooth
45 tooth = 8 degrees per tooth
60 tooth = 6 degrees per tooth
72 tooth = 5 degrees per tooth
80 tooth = 4.5 degrees per tooth
100 tooth = 3.6 degrees per tooth

As you can see, going from 24 to 46 teeth is the real big jump... so I can see the logic of saying 36 is "fine tooth". But for me, it's the 45's because they were the first ratchets *I* can remember as being called fine tooth.
 

Even 11

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I always thought the S-K round heads were the first fine tooth and IIRC they are a 45 so thats what I voted. How many teeth are in a Cman RHFT though? With the dual pawl those are one of the best ever.

45 is a fine tooth in my eyes!

-Dane
 

SgtRauksauff

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I dunno what I'd consider "fine" or "coarse" in this case. My craftsman ratchets, definitely not fine.

My father's 40-year-old Snap-on, not fine, but not really coarse either.

My buddy's matco ratchet was the first "fine" ratchet I'd ever used, and I loved the action on it. Thing is, I HATED that thing because the handle was so long, and most of the work I had to do was lying on the floor on cardboard under the car, and kept smackin' myself in the head because of that long handle. Not sure how many teeth that had, but I think between 45 and 60 somewhere..

Then, I picked up an 80-tooth snap-on, and holy freakin' smokes is it awesome. I can definitely tell the difference between it and the matco.

I think it really depends on how tight the quarters are in which you're wrenching. Lots of times, the craftsman ratchets are just fine, but when I'm in really tight places, the snap-on really really really helps a lot.

--sarge
 

indestro

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with vehicle components as crammed as they are today i would have to say that tooth count has to keep up with regard to the allowed degree per arc swing available. by comarison to vehicles 30 years ago 45 teeth 8-10 degrees was cool but with alternators on the bottom of blocks, expansion tanks underneath batteries and every other insane vehicle makers can do to screw with aftermarket repairmen you need 3-4-5 degrees at a maximum. and im not even gonna talk my piece of having to repair equipment on a military venue with up armor kits and sometimes blown up twisted metal in the way of fasteners.......short answer give me more teeth and indexable heads with all the swivels i can get.
 

diesel research

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and im not even gonna talk my piece of having to repair equipment on a military venue with up armor kits air tools and sometimes blown up twisted metal in the way of fasteners torch/thermite rod.......short answer give me more teeth and indexable heads with all the swivels i can get.

:thumbup:
 

W650Mike

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I voted 60. Even with only 2 degrees difference between 60 and 45, there is a subjective "feel" difference to me. In most applications, either would probably work.

I don't know if 80 is overkill or not - but it sure is sweet in use! 100 tooth? Why that's just crazy. At least until I find one; I may change my mind.
 

mrholeshot

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I voted 45 tooth. It's right on the edge of what I consider fine tooth. While many ratchets are 60 and over sometimes the size of the ratchet head can be more valuable than a high tooth count.
 

Joe B.

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I looks like the point of inflection in the curve is somewhere between 45 & 60.

porphyre is correct in that you need too look at degrees of swing and not tooth count as they do not have a liner relationship.

RatchetArc.jpg
 

kc-steve

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I looks like the point of inflection in the curve is somewhere between 45 & 60.

porphyre is correct in that you need too look at degrees of swing and not tooth count as they do not have a liner relationship.

Although you make a good argument for what we SHOULD DECIDE that a fine-tooth ratchet SHOULD be, most of us choose ratchets based on other subjective criteria such as personal feel, experience, as well as the job at hand. And that is what the original poster wanted, I think. OPINIONs because they are so varied here on GJ. :)

Just to add to the mix of personal opinion is also the fact that not all ratchet manufacturers are equal, making the same mix of ratcheting teeth.

Thanks though,
Steve
 

Ohio Auto

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All I know is that I just bought and used my first Snap on 80 this past weekend.

Wow...poetry in motion.

IMO, anything 60 and above is fine tooth. We've had 45's for years and never really considered them very fine.
 

indestro

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air tools and torches are cool if you have accesibility. TOOOOTALLLLY AGREEEEE
 
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matthew

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Given how often the term is bandied about, I was just looking for some level of consensus on the definition. Looks like we have that. I think I'd interpret the results as 45 being marginal, but on the edge of 'fine tooth.'

Number of degrees of swing is important, but so is the length of the swing arc at the end of the handle. On a standard length 3/8" drive ratchet, the arc length of travel between engaging ratchet teeth is about:
36 tooth = 1.22"
40 tooth = 1.10"
45 tooth = .98"
60 tooth = .73"
72 tooth = .61"
All based on 7" from the end of the handle to the centre of the drive.

With all this said, when you consider getting into spaces that you have less than 1" of movement at the end of the ratchet handle, it is probably more useful to have a flex or stubby ratchet than to have more teeth.
 
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indestro

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id have to say a stubby flexhead on a wobbley or universal joint has saved my bacon on more than one ocassion
 
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matthew

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(and for what it's worth, I'm quite surprised that as many respondants feel 72 is the minimum of what they'd call fine tooth...)
 

otis66

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Yet another reason to buy Wright ratchets. Wright ratchet= 40 regular size teeth times two pawls = 80 teeth.:beer:
 
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caper

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(and for what it's worth, I'm quite surprised that as many respondants feel 72 is the minimum of what they'd call fine tooth...)

I think that shows more about the age of the respondents than anything else. I can remember buying a Mac ratchet off the truck twenty years ago.It was a 30 tooth ratchet and all the guys in the shop were calling it a fine tooth ratchet.Back then 20 teeth on a ratchet was common. You haven't felt coarse until you've used an old Gray 20 tooth ratchet. Damn things were brutal.Snap on had a 20 tooth and a 30 tooth gear available,30 being the fine version.Hell when they came out with the 36 tooth model we thought it was awesome! If you needed a short swing you used a round head,49 tooth Snappy,or an air ratchet.
 

tw33k2514

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Given what we have available to us today, I say anything 60 and above is fine. The real question is how many teeth will we eventually see?
 

winlinmac

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What about Dual-Pawl Ratchets which have fine teeth? 45 x 2 = 90 // 41 x 2 = 82 (Wright) // 36 x 2 = 72 teeth (Williams Superratchet)
 

winlinmac

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Thanks, I've come across these two threads before, but I'm still a little puzzled. If my understanding is correct, the double pawl ratchet mechanisms are neither strong or weak, they're in the middle, right?

Best dual pawl ratchet appears to be William's superratchet with zero backstroke drag

If that's the case, what are some good coarse-tooth ratchets you would recommend?

Edit: In post # 17 of http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94313,
What teeth are involved in dual-pawl ratchets?

:see:

3-07-2011
Are double pawl ratchet mechanisms ideal?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94313

05-21-2009
Willaims Superratchet Disassembled
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36498
 
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yowzer

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If that's the case, what are some good coarse-tooth ratchets you would recommend?


Ko-ken Zeal ratchets are only 36 tooth, but extraordinarily smooth and nice to use. They're about as close to the platonic ideal of a 36 ratchet as you can get.
 

Wes J

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What about Dual-Pawl Ratchets which have fine teeth? 45 x 2 = 90 // 41 x 2 = 82 (Wright) // 36 x 2 = 72 teeth (Williams Superratchet)

All round head ratchets have the same problem: when you pick it up, you have no idea if it's set for CW or CCW. You waste time checking the reverse mechanism every time you grab the ratchet.
 

Qualitytools

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Just stumbled on this old thread so here is my .02 cents worth. I consider 72 and higher to be fine toothed as I purchased my first fine toothed Craftsman for tight spots about 25 years ago or so and was impressed that it had that much of a tooth count and a small arc. I did not consider smoothness as the question was related to fine toothed not smooth.
 

bonneyman

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I consider anything 45 tooth and more to be fine toothed. I also feel that anything over 60 teeth is overkill but, that's just me, Useful but, overkill the same.:beer:
Given the hot selling 80, 84, 88, and 100 tooth models, you want to up the tooth poll selections.

:thumbup:

My S-K 45170 has worked for me for years - has never missed a beat. Gotten so used to 45 teeth anything with less teeth feels "clunky", more teeth feels slippery.
 

jeejay

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So far I'm defining a fine tooth ratchet as one that will interfere with me reversing the ratchet lever depending on the angle (when it's on a fastener). For instance, comparing two different ratchet adapters, one that is 24 tooth doesn't get stuck in any position, and the other 36 tooth one will (sometimes), as will any ratchet I have with 36 or more teeth (unless there's some trick to that, besides turning the handle to a different angle or removing it from the fastener).

Actually now I'm not sure about this being a simple matter of tooth count, just that it tends to happen with ratchets that have higher tooth counts (70-, or 80-something). I checked another one that hasn't gotten stuck on me, and it looks to be a 40 tooth (I was assuming it was lower, because it's el cheapo), so maybe this has more to do with the switch on those, or is a combination of the two. As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter where one's made... wait, are there ratchets by Swiss watch makers?

I don't know, is it just me, or do fine toothed ones get stuck easier... :dunno: At least some are much harder to turn at times, if not technically stuck, and I'd have to use the other hand to switch it, rather than the one holding the handle (maybe it's the angle of the handle too, and all the socket connections can wobble somewhat adding to that). In that case I think it's hit and miss as to which ratchets are always easy to switch, yet they all seem to work consistently without pressure on the mechanism.

Yes, that's it. I just tested out the 24 tooth ratchet adapter on a heavier sliding T handle, and it switches easier when the weight is balanced, by having the handle in the center, then it becomes more sticky when the handle is slid to one side. It's mostly about weight distribution then, I'm pretty sure. Just that the 36 tooth adapter on the same handle is not designed to switch as easy from either position, as it happens. Those two switches are in different locations on the adapters. The one on the front switches better, probably because there's less weight acting on it as a result (I think the other one gets sandwiched in there under load). My 40 tooth ratchet that's never gotten stuck is only an 8 oz handle. The other fine toothed ones are heavier. So it must be a leverage thing, because the ratchet switch is a lever of some kind, as is the handle (and sometimes the handle wins). For sure, a heavier 30 tooth ratchet behaves the same way. I hadn't compared it until now, and didn't get any of those based on tooth count, but that was a false assumption too (well, one of these coincidences had to be true, if not several of them). Maybe that's obvious, but you never know, some things work better under heavy load, like the brakes on a commercial vehicle (not that it was on my mind in particular, but I must have been over thinking some of this based on some of that, as if fewer ratchet teeth were so dynamical). I'd say they're more comparable to a clutch now (or that of manipulating various levers to facilitate shifting), as the ratchet adapters have a neutral or direct drive position, which is easy enough to switch into under higher torque, just not out of. I suppose it depends on the size and stability of the fastener too, how well balanced a particular ratchet might end up on there. Less is more though, on this kind of mechanism for working precisely, besides the tooth count.

Also I found that a flex head ratchet with a heavy enough handle to get the selector switch stuck from a 90 degree angle can be temporarily angled straight out to balance the weight better, and switch the lever (72 tooth by the way). I've got this thing fingered out. :)
 
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PowderKeg

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Well since this got resurrected I'll throw my nickle's worth.

@ 45 tooth has generally been my dividing line between coarse and fine tooth. Unfortunately, technology and youth (as in not around in the old days of truly coarse toothed ratchets) have combined to try and rewrite definitions. My opinion is to add a new term - ultra-fine, or extra-fine ratchets for anything 88 tooth or more. Keeps us old fogeys happy with our treasured 45t Kilness and SK, and RHFT, Wright and Bonney double pawled ratchets as they've always been considered - fine tooth - while raising the descriptive bar a level for the 88+ ones vying for "king of the hill".

But the industry/manufacturers don't use the term ultra- or extra-??? So what, how many ratchets do you see advertised as coarse tooth? RHFT for the iconic MDF/Craftsman (and several other brands) design wasn't used 20+ years ago, but is pretty well accepted now.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
 
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