1/2 Hex drive ratchets

[alton1911]

Taking my usual trip through the “historical wrench” section of my local pawn shop and found two more 1/2 inch hex drive ratchets bringing my total to 3. I have two that look Japanese and the one on the right is marked “Dunlap” it’s a USA made ratchet. What would these date from?
Thanks in advance
alton1911

 

[d42jeep]

Dunlap was sold by Sears from around 1938 to 1960. After that Sears sold many of the same tools without the Dunlap brand. Here is my 1/4” hex set.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

On the Japan-made models: some time between the end of WWII and the mid-1960s (or possibly 1970s.)
On the Dunlap model: anybody's guess.

Here's a "Dunlap" model 46273 19-piece 1/2" and 1/4" hex drive Metric socket set that was just listed on Ebay. The ratchet appears to be a match to your example above.
If you dig through old Craftsman catalogs you might be able to get a rough idea of when they were produced. There are all kinds of old Craftsman catalogs available for download online. I posted my 1955 issue here somewhere.

 

[four.cycle]

You had me fooled with the thread title... I was thinking it was going to be a "Show us your 1/2" drive hex ratchet" thread!

But what the heck, here you go - here's an oldie:



I'll post the other photos in the appropriate thread.

 

[four.cycle]

Dunlap was sold by Sears from around 1938 to 1960. After that Sears sold many of the same tools without the Dunlap brand.

^ don't forget about Sears "Companion" brand!

(I think my Companion set is 1/4" square drive, though.. not sure. : )

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Any pat numbers/dates on those?

 

[four.cycle]

Any pat numbers/dates on those?

Wakefield: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6934421#post6934421

 

[alton1911]

On the Japan-made models: some time between the end of WWII and the mid-1960s (or possibly 1970s.)
On the Dunlap model: anybody's guess.

Here's a "Dunlap" model 46273 19-piece 1/2" and 1/4" hex drive Metric socket set that was just listed on Ebay. The ratchet appears to be a match to your example above.
If you dig through old Craftsman catalogs you might be able to get a rough idea of when they were produced. There are all kinds of old Craftsman catalogs available for download online. I posted my 1955 issue here somewhere.

Hey amigo,
Could you send me the dimensions on those socket trays? I have not found any trays, but Im pretty certain I can make a reasonable copy of those. Thank you again
alton1911

 

[d42jeep]

The most recent listing for the Dunlap 1/2” drive hex set was in the ‘60 catalog. Here is a slightly later partial unmarked metric set sold by Sears but specified in the catalog as NOT Craftsman.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ yeah.... forgot about that one... early on they had "Fulton" and "Merit", and then "Dunlap" and then "Companion", and then just plain "Sears" brand.

Could you send me the dimensions on those socket trays? I have not found any trays, but Im pretty certain I can make a reasonable copy of those.

alton1911, those Dunlap sets are not mine - I just lifted the photo images from an Ebay ad to use as an example.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

And the manufacturers varied

 

[Cruzan80]

^ yeah.... forgot about that one... early on they had "Fulton" and "Merit", and then "Dunlap" and then "Companion", and then just plain "Sears" brand.



alton1911, those Dunlap sets are not mine - I just lifted the photo images from an Ebay ad to use as an example.

Companion existed before Dunlap, was phased out, and then made a comeback afterwards. Early 20's-30's stuff was Companion before Dunlap.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I had no clue on that one. I come across later companion stuff but nothing that old

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up this combination 1/2- and 1/4-inch hex drive set in a solitary holder at a flea market a long time ago and pretty much forgot all about it. Missing a couple 1/2-inch drive sockets and possibly one 1/4-inch drive socket. Nothing is marked, not the holder or the tools, but everything about it screams Duro Metal Products to me. I could be wrong - as these handy-dandy household utility type hex drive sets are really not my area.

I know they're common - with lots of examples popping up on various threads over the years here, although I'm not sure I've seen one exactly like this. I never did try to figure out what set it was, and I am kind of hoping BK (four.cycle) can. If you can identify it, and it is a Duro/Indestro set, please cite the model number and/or link or post its catalog image, BK.

My not-so-secret ulterior motive for a catalog photo is because I am actually uncertain how to re-assemble the pieces in the holder the way the factory intended! I am NOT kidding. The holes look instinctively to me like they're for the L-handle and the drive stud in the ratchet, but that doesn't work. The hinged clip won't close that way, and even if it could, the sockets would fall out. The sockets need to be under the hinged clip. Any other way I try though looks clumsy or at least less than ideal or factory correct to me.

Besides its capacity to humiliate me, the only other remarkable thing about it, in my opinion, is the fact that the midget sockets include a square service opening and a radio thumbscrew service opening. I've seen those in a few old sets before (Husky, as I recall), but not too many others. (Again, it's possible I am mistaken, that they are standard in these type sets, and I am just not in-the-know on that.)

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Don't see many in metric

As seen on the evil auction site https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-He...No-46273-complete-in-vinyl-pouch/401468593667

 

[alton1911]

I went looking again for some sockets of the hex drive variety. I found a 1/4 L shaped handle with friction ball on both ends. I also found 3 or 4 1/4" sockets some with very heavy knurling on the bottom edge. I still have not found a suitable 1/2" handle with friction ball. Or a good looking tray.

I will keep looking.

alton1911

 

[four.cycle]

^ This is an Indestro model 1452 "Handy" 19-piece 1/2" and 1/4" hex drive SAE socket set.

It does not appear in the 1935 catalog.
The earliest catalog reference I have for it is in the 1937 Indestro catalog, where it appears as a model 1234:



The next catalog listing I have for it is in the 1948 Indestro catalog No. 16, where it appears as a model 1452.
The part number 1234 was reassigned to the Indestro Super 1/2" drive 12-point 1-1/16" socket.



The next catalog listing I have for it is in (what I assume to be) an early 1950's Indestro catalog No. 20 where it again appears as a model 1452.
(I have yet to be able to definitively ascertain the exact years of these later catalogs. I will note here that Alloy-Artifacts.org is in error on at least one date that they've assigned to the Indestro catalogs they make reference to on their website.)



The next catalog listing I have for it is in (what I assume to be) an early 1950's Indestro Select catalog No. 2 where it again is shown as a model 1452.
(see note above regarding catalog dates)



The next catalog listing I have for it is in (what is believed to be) a 1959 Indestro catalog No. 22 where it again is shown as a model 1452.
(see note above regarding catalog dates)



It does not appear (nor do any of the other various models of the "Handy" socket sets) in (what is believed to be) the 1972 Indestro catalog No. 55.

The small 1/4" hex drive sockets are the same as those found in the model 350 "Handy" set, and include a 1/4" square socket and a knurled socket.
The only notation I have seen anywhere regarding the knurled socket was on the back of the pouch containing a similar "Oxwall" brand set that referred to it as a "Master" socket, presumably for removing screws and bolts with damaged heads. (Remember how common slotted-head stove bolts were on older machinery?)

 

[four.cycle]

Indestro 1452 "Handy" socket set

The prices shown in the 1937 catalog snippet for the model 1234 can reasonably be assumed to be the Manufacturer's Suggested List Price, that being $1.72

Prices from available Indestro price lists are as follows:

1234 19-pc Handy Socket Set - March 25, 1937 Distributor Net Price: $ .96

1452 19-pc Handy Socket Set - August 27, 1948 Consumer List Price: $ 5.55
1452 19-pc Handy Socket Set - August 27, 1948 Mechanics Net Price: $ 3.30

1452 19-pc Handy Socket Set - January 19, 1959 Mechanics Net Price: $ 5.44
1452 19-pc Handy Socket Set - January 19, 1959 Dealer Net Price: $ 3.48

The 1937 Distributor Net Price List is blue, which traditionally was the "Jobber" price list.
Our Warehouse Distributor discount (in the 1970s and 1980s) was 25% off of the "Jobber" price, terms 2% 10th proximo.
If the discount structure was the same in 1937, the wholesale cost directly from the manufacturer to the Warehouse Distributor would have been $ .72, quite a bit different than the current asking prices on Ebay:

162825667012
$16.00 + $17.15 shipping "buy now"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Indestro-1...ith-Case-Hex-Drive-with-Ratchet-/162825667012



122019575101
$50.00 + $6.00 shipping OBO "buy now"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-In...nches-metal-case-green-complete-/122019575101



192416897812
$29.95 + $18.05 shipping OBO "buy now"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-IN...1-2-034-Drive-Sockets-In-Holder-/192416897812

 

[four.cycle]

This being the "1/2" hex drive ratchet" thread, here are the catalog listings for the Indestro model 1308 "Enclosed type" ratchet supplied with the 1452 set above (as well as many other Indestro hex drive sets.)
Although several "Handy" 1/2" hex drive socket sets are shown in the 1959 Catalog No. 22, the model 1308 "Enclosed type" ratchet is not shown as an item that was available separately.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for such a thorough and comprehensive rundown on the 19-pc Indestro set, four.cycle! I really appreciate the effort. I guess I intuitively lucked into the assembly inside the holder.

The only notation I have seen anywhere regarding the knurled socket was on the back of the pouch containing a similar "Oxwall" brand set that referred to it as a "Master" socket, presumably for removing screws and bolts with damaged heads.

From what I have gathered, midget sockets with knurled service openings were for spinning knurled nuts and thumbscrews typically found on cases containing mechanical or electrical equipment, including radios. And they were beveled so that they cold fit knurled screws and nuts of different sizes. Perhaps that's what Oxwall was implying with their name for it. Or maybe they had a different idea for them.

 

[four.cycle]

^ You got me... I never worked on radios. You may be correct there.
I went on a search for that Oxwall set but could not find it. The only thing I remember for certain is that is was noted on the back of the little vinyl pouch as a "Master Socket".
The contents of the Oxwall set were essentially the same as what would be in the Indestro #350 1/4" hex drive set (and the 1/4" hex drive sockets in your 1452 set above.)



==

If anybody's interested in acquiring a 1/4" hex drive set, this little Sears set looks like it needs a home. Apparently no interest thus far - auction ends in about 5 hours:

SEARS 46252 10-pc 1/4" hex drive SAE socket set w/pouch
(see ad text and photos for content)
listed as used (see photos)
99 cents + $3.45 shipping now. 0 bids now. ends Sat. 01/07 18:00 PST
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SEARS-HEX-...KET-SET-SPINNER-HANDLE-46252-USA/362201399752
SOLD $2.32 + shipping 01/06

 

[Private Lugnutz]

four.cycle,

I never worked on radios either, but the first time I ever found a vintage socket set with one of those oddball sockets with a round ribbed service opening in it I was curious. I could not get a definitive answer here on GJ or anywhere else. So I started digging, searching on all kinds of descriptive terms.

The first thing I discovered was a repetitive subject of frustration on antique radio forums in the 2009 timeframe on the various methods for turning (and especially for untightening) knurled round nuts and screws. Everything from homemade collets to a chamois cloth and hemostats was suggested. (Not kidding!) If you can picture yourself trying to turn a delicate round knurled nut or screw with a DOE wrench or a 6-point socket or a pair of pliers, you can imagine their frustration, and also the extent of their imaginative solutions.

Around 2012 they had discovered a modern electronics company in Texas catering to the antique radio restoration hobby making a special tool with an internally knurled socket head. And whenever the subject came up after that, the newbie inquirer would be sent to that company's tool.

I don't think those groups ever thought to look back into old catalogs to see what tools technicians may have used on these cases originally, but I did.

Thumbnail 1 is an excerpt from the 1940 Walden catalog.

Thumbnail 2 are two excerpts from the 1938 Husky catalog.

Note that the marketing text in both catalogs cite "radio shop" as a common application. I don't know if Walden ever extended the idea of a round knurled socket from their non-detachable spinners to their detachable sockets and handles, but Husky clearly did.

 

[four.cycle]

I stand corrected, sir.

Looks like the Oxwall thing might have thrown me off.

Here's a "Pexto" No. 1 1/4' hex drive Radio Socket Wrench Set that recently sold on Ebay.
Included in the set are four 6-point sockets: 1/4', 5/16", 11/32", and 3/8", and one knurled socket.







* originally listed 01/03/18 - $24.99 incl. shipping "buy now" - sold $24.99 incl. shipping 01/04/18 @ 02:34 PST * (5/16" socket cracked) *

I think it's reasonable to assume that a knurled socket included in a "Radio Socket Wrench Set" would be intended for use on radios.

That notwithstanding, it begs the question why would Oxwall label their set calling it a "Master Socket" for removing bolts and screws with damaged heads?
(I wish I'd have thought to grab a screen shot of that one when I saw it, because now I'm starting to think I may be going crazy.)

 

[four.cycle]

Note that the knurled socket included in the model 350 Indestro 1/4" hex drive "Vest Pocket" set is noted only as a "3/8" round knurled socket" in the 1937 catalog.
The model 8F and 11M "Radio Socket Sets" also include a "3/8" round knurled socket".

There is no mention of their intended purpose, as in your New Britain example above.
Were round knurled nuts so common that it would have been assumed by the manufacturer that the user already knew what the round knurled socket's intended purpose was?

And why did Oxwall (much later) decide to call it a "Master Socket" citing a completely different purpose? Did they just have a gazillion of them in inventory and were trying a different angle just to unload them?

These are questions that make me scratch my head and wonder.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I stand corrected, sir.

I didn't think you were insisting on the Oxwall "Master Socket" damaged head theory, four.cycle, just sharing my alternative research and conclusions for your consideration.

it begs the question why would Oxwall label their set calling it a "Master Socket" for removing bolts and screws with damaged heads?

I seem to recall someone offering a similar theory for the round knurled sockets in question when I inquired about them here years ago, four.cycle. Whether that was just their intuitive hunch or informed by a certain product, perhaps Oxwall, I don't recall.

As for an explanation, as I said above in our first exchange on the subject, it could be that Oxwall had a completely different idea for their use, and maybe even inspired by the radio application. A knurled round nut or screw head does sort of resemble, in a more uniform way, a hex nut or screw head that has been badly rounded off from misuse. And I can definitely picture a round internally knurled socket grabbing a badly rounded off nut.

 

[four.cycle]

I'm just puzzled by it a bit is all - not a life or death deal, for sure.

I do wonder though, how commonplace knurled round nuts were in the past. I think the only ones around here are on a couple J.P. Danielson "Auto Kit" wrench sets and the equivalent sets I have in Indestro. They can all be removed easily with fingers.
But I can certainly see where trying to remove a nut that had been cooking inside a tube-type radio for years might be a challenge to remove, especially without damaging it, thereby necessitating a tool intended for that purpose.

And after all this I'm thinking I should have grabbed that Pexto set when I first saw it, but the cracked 5/16" socket caused me to pass it by.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Were round knurled nuts so common that it would have been assumed by the manufacturer that the user already knew what the round knurled socket's intended purpose was?

I would think so, yes. The purpose is only noted once in the Husky catalog. After that, the round Internal Knurled socket is just listed as one of the contents in the various midget sets. And the purpose is actually illustrated in the Walden catalog with no further explanation required.

As for opening sizes, none are listed in the Walden catalog (because they were special order only), but the illustration implies a design that would require specific sizes to match specific round knurled nuts and screw heads. Your quick research implies a PEXTO and Indestro design that would require specific sizes. Husky's approach was different. The knurling is described as "graduated" (I called it "beveled" in my first post on the subject) for plural nuts in the text. In the size column next to the model number in a product table on the same page (24), whereas all the other sockets list a specific opening size (e.g., 1/4", 5/16", 11/32", etc), the socket in question (Model H3358) is listed only as "I.K.*" in the size column. The footnote under the table reads, "Round Internal Knurled Socket."

I think the idea behind the beveled, graduated or sloped knurling is that it would fit round knurled nuts and screw heads of multiple diameters, grabbing higher or lower along the beveled, graduated or sloped knurling as the case may be.

 

[d42jeep]

Some time back, I sent this unusual Stevens spintite nutdriver to Twertsy for his Spintite collection. I found a 1940 Walden catalog page that explained what the tool was. Sorry for the bad picture of the broach!
-Don
Edit- Gee another cross post. Great minds and all that!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

four.cycle: Yeah, we're not talking about common thumbscrews here. These were serious fasteners for keeping panels and faceplates and components etc very tight.

That Pexto set is awesome, especially in the original packaging.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found a 1940 Walden catalog page that explained what the tool was.

Me too! See post #22 above, Don.

 

[four.cycle]

a grab bag of 1/4" and 1/2" hex drive sockets and drive adapters I just received.

no idea who made the 1/2" drive units. all stamped "Made in U.S.A." and the sizes - no maker's name or other marks.
any ideas?

the 1/4" drive sockets at lower left - marked with two knurled bands - are marked "Made in U.S.A." and with the size - no other marks.
any ideas?

the 1/4" drive sockets at lower right with the single cross-hatch knurled band are marked only with the size. side-by-side they're similar in every way to those in the Indestro 350 set I posted above.



(* the oddball between the two adapters has been cut down on a grinder *)

 

[four.cycle]

three Indestro hex drive sets:

350 - see also: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6958578#post6958578



1451 - see also: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6958579#post6958579



2104 - see also: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6958582#post6958582

 

[d42jeep]

Here are a couple of Hex ratchets that I have. The #105 is an early S-K and the other unmarked one is from Sears that came in a mid 60s metric socket set.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That pexto set earlier reminded me of this kresge set, one of which is of the internally knurled variety.

 

[four.cycle]

Photos from an Ebay ad for comparison purposes.
This set also contains the "round knurled socket" discussed above.







(* note the sizes are stamped on with a hyphen ("5-16") and not a slash ("5/16"). note the sockets are stamped "Made in U.S.A.". the patent date refers to patent 1438900, which New Britain used on a number of different holders.)

 

[four.cycle]

From Ebay for comparison purposes, another company who made hex drive socket sets.
Keystone 250 1/4" hex drive set with holder. ( patent 1696444) This one doesn't contain the "round knurled socket".





Keystone Manufacturing, 41-63 Chandler St., Buffalo, N.Y. / http://toolarchives.com/node/572 / http://alloy-artifacts.org/other-makers-p2.html#keystone

 

[four.cycle]

so... it looks like I got a couple wires crossed in the year since I saw that set with the notation about the "Master Socket":

"found it! https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345187
it wasn’t an Oxwall set – it was a set made by G.M Mfg. Co.
pouch reads: “ one master socket for round nuts “

I guess in the year that’s passed since I posted that I got some wires crossed or misinterpreted that to mean it was for “roundED” nuts.
anyway – first time I ever saw any notation relating to that type of socket was on that little G.M. set."

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for posting that, four.cycle. It's good to have a third reference (in addition to Walden and Husky) for their application.

 

[four.cycle]

Indestro 1239 "Handy" 9-pc 1/2" hex drive SAE socket set

As per both the 1935 and 1937 Indestro catalogs, the set originally contained six 12-point sockets: 1/2", 9/16", 5/8", 11/16", 3/4", and 7/8", the 1308 "Enclosed type" ratchet, "ell" handle, and screwdriver adapter.

This set does not appear in the 1948 Indestro catalog.

There are no markings on the holder or ratchet. The only markings on the sockets are the size stamps. The "ell" wrench is stamped "Made in U.S.A."

Note that the 3/4" and 7/8" sockets are not original to the set: the 3/4" socket is not Indestro, the 7/8" socket is a 6-point

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Don't know who made these little gems. Box says they are for radio,television automobile and hobby work!