1/2" HF Earthquake Power?

[bczygan]

So I just bought my first 1/2" impact, the HF 1/2" Earthquake.

Meant if for general automotive use on my Pontiac 6000.

First use was to take the lug nuts off.

There had been torqued to 90foot pounds with a HF torque wrench.

Threads weren't cleaned first.

The impact would hardly budge them.

Finally, after much effort, they came off.

I should say that I was running a pancake compressor with about 50' of hose.

I also tried it on the lug nuts on my AstroVan and it wouldn't budge them at all.

Did I get a dud?

Or is it the compressor?

Or what?

Bill

 

[ScottsGT]

You need more compressor.

 

[DudeManSpecial]

Compressor would be my guess. Check the cfm of gun vs compressor but those pancake jobs are only really good for nail guns or filling up a tire.

 

[SAATR]

Compressor is low on CFM, and the long ( probably 3/8 hose ) isn't helping with the large pressure drop. Gun should handle those lugs with ease.

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[bcradio]

My 3/8" Earthquake handles that with ease... Looks like a compressor issue to me

 

[MrGiggles]

An impact is only as good as its air source.

The advertised rating of most impacts is at a low duty cycle. At full tilt they can draw near 20cfm.

Limit your hose to one quick connect. Most impacts work in a satisfactory manner with normal 1/4" fittings though. You need at least 5cfm and 20 gallons of tank to run one long enough to switch tires around.

The Harbor Freight 21 gallon compressor is an example of the bare minimum for impact use, and affordable at 159.99 with coupon.

I have used bottom of the barrel 30 dollar Campbell Housefield impacts that removed lug nuts with ease, when supplied with enough air.

 

[bczygan]

Thanks guys, for the info.

Guess I'll keep it.

And time to hook up the bigger compressor.

Bill

 

[Packard V8]

For a couple of years now, we've been using a HF Earthquake 1/2" commercially disassembling everything and it eats what it hits. Yer toy compressor is the problem.

jack vines

 

[lightning02]

Yea that compressor with that long hose isn't going to do it. Plus you want use high flow fitting. I have the same impact and when I swapped over to high flow fittings it was night and day different.

 

[hangfirew8]

If that was 1/4" hose, you were really out of luck. You need 3/8" hose with 1/4" NPT fittings.

Also HF quick connects just killed the power in my IR impact. You don't necessarily have to go to High Flow's, but a quality quick connect like a Milton will flow much better than a HF, and the cost is reasonable.

 

[619DioFan]

Compressor for sure. I have a 3.5 horse 20 gal Campbell hausfeld that lives in a shed 80 feet from my work space at home. with 3/8 air line my 1/2 earthquake works great. even the 3/8 drive earthquake will remove the lugs on my dodge ram. keep them oiled and give them air and the earthquake guns really work great.

 

[LumpyMusic]

Ditto what everyone else is saying. My 1/2" Earthquake routinely takes apart and reassembles my Astro, as well as our horse trailers, big tow vehicles, little Honda Accord, Grand Am, everything.

60 Gallon Campbell Hausfeld air source.

Sgt Lumpy

 

[Vettman]

The "Earthquake" literature recommends no smaller than a 7 gallon tank.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Compressor would be my guess. Check the cfm of gun vs compressor but those pancake jobs are only really good for nail guns or filling up a tire.

Compressor is low on CFM, and the long ( probably 3/8 hose ) isn't helping with the large pressure drop. Gun should handle those lugs with ease.

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NOOOOOOOO! It's not CFM that's an issue, it's PSI! When a compressor isn't running, it is a 0CFM compressor. It's the PSI not being high enough. Even the worst 1/4 fittings flow 30CFM or so, so it's not an issue of how much air can be flowed, it's a matter of what PSI it reaches the gun.

Did I get a dud?

Or is it the compressor?

Or what?

Bill

Trying turning up the PSI if possible and using hi flow fittings. Impact guns (and other intermittent use tools) need to have a high enough PSI to operate at full power. 90 PSI at the regulator does not equal 90 PSI at the gun while being used.

I've used the 1/2 earthquake with 4 extensions and a swivel to remove lug nuts at 70 Ft-lbs (just to see if it would do it). Did it with no problem.

 

[iScream]

If it isn't even working for the very first nut I would check the hose and fittings before the compressor itself. The compressor CFM and tank size has more to do with how many lug nuts you can remove without waiting than busting the first one loose.

This seems to be one of the most misunderstood concepts about compressors. It doesn't take that much compressor to supply 125 PSI for 5 seconds to bust the first lug nut loose. A larger tank will drop from that 125 PSI slower than a small tank and it will be longer before the pump has to kick in. A higher CFM pump will recover back to 125 PSI faster or possibly maintain a usable PSI for longer.

I just have a little California Air Tools compressor with a 10 gallon tank. When I first got it I tried using the 1/4" coiled hose that came with a crappy little Craftsman. It was terrible when I tried to use a 1/2" impact. I bought a 3/8" hose and installed good Milton V style fittings. It's like a completely different compressor now. As long as I don't try to pull high CFM for any sustained time.

Chris

 

[bczygan]

If it isn't even working for the very first nut I would check the hose and fittings before the compressor itself. The compressor CFM and tank size has more to do with how many lug nuts you can remove without waiting than busting the first one loose.

This seems to be one of the most misunderstood concepts about compressors. It doesn't take that much compressor to supply 125 PSI for 5 seconds to bust the first lug nut loose. A larger tank will drop from that 125 PSI slower than a small tank and it will be longer before the pump has to kick in. A higher CFM pump will recover back to 125 PSI faster or possibly maintain a usable PSI for longer.

I just have a little California Air Tools compressor with a 10 gallon tank. When I first got it I tried using the 1/4" coiled hose that came with a crappy little Craftsman. It was terrible when I tried to use a 1/2" impact. I bought a 3/8" hose and installed good Milton V style fittings. It's like a completely different compressor now. As long as I don't try to pull high CFM for any sustained time.

Chris

OK,

A couple of things.

In addition to a 50' hose, I have one of those yellow spiral hoses starting at the compressor.

I am using HF fittings throughout.

And the compressor pumps up to 90PSI and stops. Maybe the regulator is set too low?

It's a 6 gallon Porter Cable 150PSIFirst gauge with relief valve says 120. Second one says 80.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

I see one thing..

I'm using the 1/4"x25' yellow HF air hose from their compressor kit. That can't be good!

Bill

 

[AV tinker er]

I believe this video fully shows static and dynamic air pressure.

 

[CJM8515]

Ok lets compare for a second.

Guy I know has 2 gal pancake compressor. Max is something like 120psi maybe..I think more 90psi. He uses a short 10ft hose, probably 3/8 and he has several top shelf guns. The things will maybe budge 1-2 lugnuts on most things and he has to wait to get mroe off for th compressor to air back up. His setup couldnt remove lugnuts I put on with an old snap on cordless 18v impact.

You need a larger compressor, at least 25gallon.

 

[SAATR]

NOOOOOOOO! It's not CFM that's an issue, it's PSI! When a compressor isn't running, it is a 0CFM compressor. It's the PSI not being high enough. Even the worst 1/4 fittings flow 30CFM or so, so it's not an issue of how much air can be flowed, it's a matter of what PSI it reaches the gun.

.

Rig one of those 12V accessory plug powered compressors to an impact and tell me how well it works. It can generate the pressure required, but will drop to nothing as soon as you pull the trigger. Why? Not enough flow. A compressor has to be able to generate enough flow (CFM) or it can't maintain a pressure differential. Hence why the compressor/tank combo are rated by their ability to supply a certain amount of air at a specified pressure, and why air tools specify a minimum amount of flow from the compressor to satisfactorily supply them.

Cranking the pressure on a compressor is a band aid for an undersized compressor. It can work, but it's still just a bandaid.



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[iScream]

I see one thing..

I'm using the 1/4"x25' yellow HF air hose from their compressor kit. That can't be good!

Bill

I would say upgrading to a 3/8" hose will provide the most bang for your buck. But good fittings can help a lot as well, depending on how restrictive the ones you have now are. I've never even looked at the ones from Harbor Freight so I just can't comment on them.

You would be amazed at the difference it made with my compressor. Even my Typhoon blower is very noticeably more powerful.

 

[iScream]

Look at it this way. Investing in a better hose and maybe better fittings will still be money well spent if you decide to upgrade your compressor later. Using a 1/4" coil hose with a more capable compressor will be like putting 4" wide tires on a big block Chevy muscle car. Doesn't matter how much horsepower you have available if you can't put it to the ground, or to the tool.

Chris

 

[Loscaldazar]

Rig one of those 12V accessory plug powered compressors to an impact and tell me how well it works. It can generate the pressure required, but will drop to nothing as soon as you pull the trigger. Why? Not enough flow. A compressor has to be able to generate enough flow (CFM) or it can't maintain a pressure differential. Hence why the compressor/tank combo are rated by their ability to supply a certain amount of air at a specified pressure, and why air tools specify a minimum amount of flow from the compressor to satisfactorily supply them.

Cranking the pressure on a compressor is a band aid for an undersized compressor. It can work, but it's still just a bandaid.

Not exactly. CFM only matters when the tank is empty. A 12V compressor has no tank, thus running a tool relies on CFM. That isn't the case for a stationary compressor for an intermittent use tool.

It is also worth noting that the CFM rating on compressors isn't about how much air can leave the tank- it is about how much air the compressor can put into the tank. So compressors aren't generating "flow." Even the worst 1/4 air fittings have a CFM rating of around 30CFM (which more than enough for any 1/2 impact wrench), so the rate of flow isn't the problem when a gun isn't powerful enough. So why do people see improvements with higher flow fittings? The larger interior diameter creates less friction and thus reduces the PSI less (same reason why a 1/2 hose is better than a 3/8 hose).

Too many people think the CFM of the compressor determines power. It doesn't. PSI is what determines power. When a compressor isn't even running, it's CFM rating is 0. The CFM ratings of compressors are better understood as how well the compressor can maintain a certain PSI.

This is also why you can run an impact at full power (even though the CFM rating under load is 24-28CFM) off a compressor that is only rated at 6CFM. PSI determines the power. If you can't maintain a high enough PSI under load (even intermittent load), then you have a CFM problem. A 2 gallon tank should be able to run the impact a few times for full power before it needs to recharge to allow the gun to operate at full power again.

So cranking up the PSI would make the gun more powerful.

If you truly believe that CFM alone determines power, then I hope you have a compressor that is at least 24CFM @ 100 PSI. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting full power according to your theory.

 

[bczygan]

OK.

Shorter hose, longer extension cord. Take the compressor to the work. Fatter hose and less restrictive fittings.
Set higher static pressure to get higher working pressure.

Bigger tank and compressor rated for higher CFM at higher PSI gets higher pressure at higher flow for longer time.

What i can do now is remove restrictive hose (Which also reduces fitting count), shorten hose by moving compressor to work, and bump static pressure up.

Bill

 

[iScream]

Not exactly. CFM only matters when the tank is empty. A 12V compressor has no tank, thus running a tool relies on CFM. That isn't the case for a stationary compressor for an intermittent use tool.

It is also worth noting that the CFM rating on compressors isn't about how much air can leave the tank- it is about how much air the compressor can put into the tank. So compressors aren't generating "flow." Even the worst 1/4 air fittings have a CFM rating of around 30CFM (which more than enough for any 1/2 impact wrench), so the rate of flow isn't the problem when a gun isn't powerful enough. So why do people see improvements with higher flow fittings? The larger interior diameter creates less friction and thus reduces the PSI less (same reason why a 1/2 hose is better than a 3/8 hose).

Too many people think the CFM of the compressor determines power. It doesn't. PSI is what determines power. When a compressor isn't even running, it's CFM rating is 0. The CFM ratings of compressors are better understood as how well the compressor can maintain a certain PSI.

This is also why you can run an impact at full power (even though the CFM rating under load is 24-28CFM) off a compressor that is only rated at 6CFM. PSI determines the power. If you can't maintain a high enough PSI under load (even intermittent load), then you have a CFM problem. A 2 gallon tank should be able to run the impact a few times for full power before it needs to recharge to allow the gun to operate at full power again.

So cranking up the PSI would make the gun more powerful.

If you truly believe that CFM alone determines power, then I hope you have a compressor that is at least 24CFM @ 100 PSI. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting full power according to your theory.

This guy gets it.

Only thing I would even consider arguing with is the part about 30 CFM flow fittings being more than enough. I do think better fittings can give you more of a burst of power when you first hit that impact trigger. And that burst can be just what you need to bust that lug nut loose quickly, especially with a small tank that is going to quickly start dropping in pressure. If you have to hold the trigger open and hammer away for a while, that's when a small tank and pump that can't keep up are going to frustrate you.

 

[SAATR]

OK.

Shorter hose, longer extension cord. Take the compressor to the work. Fatter hose and less restrictive fittings.
Set higher static pressure to get higher working pressure.

Bigger tank and compressor rated for higher CFM at higher PSI gets higher pressure at higher flow for longer time.

What i can do now is remove restrictive hose (Which also reduces fitting count), shorten hose by moving compressor to work, and bump static pressure up.

Bill

Absolutely right sir, absolutely.

Not exactly. CFM only matters when the tank is empty. A 12V compressor has no tank, thus running a tool relies on CFM. That isn't the case for a stationary compressor for an intermittent use tool.

It is also worth noting that the CFM rating on compressors isn't about how much air can leave the tank- it is about how much air the compressor can put into the tank. So compressors aren't generating "flow." Even the worst 1/4 air fittings have a CFM rating of around 30CFM (which more than enough for any 1/2 impact wrench), so the rate of flow isn't the problem when a gun isn't powerful enough. So why do people see improvements with higher flow fittings? The larger interior diameter creates less friction and thus reduces the PSI less (same reason why a 1/2 hose is better than a 3/8 hose).

Too many people think the CFM of the compressor determines power. It doesn't. PSI is what determines power. When a compressor isn't even running, it's CFM rating is 0. The CFM ratings of compressors are better understood as how well the compressor can maintain a certain PSI.

This is also why you can run an impact at full power (even though the CFM rating under load is 24-28CFM) off a compressor that is only rated at 6CFM. PSI determines the power. If you can't maintain a high enough PSI under load (even intermittent load), then you have a CFM problem. A 2 gallon tank should be able to run the impact a few times for full power before it needs to recharge to allow the gun to operate at full power again.

So cranking up the PSI would make the gun more powerful.

If you truly believe that CFM alone determines power, then I hope you have a compressor that is at least 24CFM @ 100 PSI. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting full power according to your theory.

I don't believe that CFM alone determines power, far from it.

His compressor is too small. Period. With hose and fittings, it could run that impact for a second, maybe two, before dropping below the pressure range for effective power. I have a similar compressor in my garage, and use it to run a good 1/2" impact, and know from first hand experience how fast power drops off with inadequate air supply, and how frustrating it can be to have to wait for several drain/refill cycles to bust loose a stubborn nut or bolt. I also work as a professional mechanic where I daily use the same impact on an air system powered by an industrial sized compressor. There is a small difference in initial power due to the larger lines we have at the shop, but it is the ability of the gun to maintain that power output, given a proper air supply, that is the difference. You are speaking of instantaneous power output given X amount of pressure. I'm speaking of the ability to maintain that power beyond a momentary burst. So yes, by my first hand experience one does need a properly sized compressor to FULLY utilize the capabilities of any air tool. What you consider satisfactory is another matter entirely.




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[XxToolAholicxX]

I was debating between this Harbor Freight impact and the Aircat 1150 found a new Harbor Freight new one on eBay for $40 bucks and bought it for home use... This thing is a beast tried it on my armada truck and Toyota Camry no problem taking thier lug nuts off or anything else I throw at it with my 30 gallon compressor.. It's a monster.. Your compressor is the problem or turn the regulator up to about 105psi it should one lug nut off intermetly or get a bigger compressor..
------------------------------------------------------------
I am a TooAholic, Sometimes I regret it, Especially when the Tooman won't give me no credit

 

[LumpyMusic]

CFM or PSI -

Don't get silly about this.

Essentially ANY compressor will supply 100 psi.

You can't run an impact gun with an airbrush compressor.
You might run an impact gun with a 5 gal compressor for a few seconds.
You can run an impact gun with a 60 gal compressor all day long.

All at 100 psi.


If your 100 psi tiny tank compressor will only run the gun for 3 seconds, turning up the psi to 125 or 150 will run the gun for a lot less than 3 seconds. Not to mention it's probably above the rated pressure for most guns.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[warweapon762]

You need more compressor.

Its probably less of a compressor issue and more of the style of hose he is running. The Earthquake series needs 3/8 hose and fittings to run properly. I run mine off a 20 gal no problem, but couldn't get it to run worth **** on 1/4 hose.

 

[bczygan]

OK,

Here's my report:

I fixed what the idiot who set it up (Me) did.

First, I disconnected the 25' of 1/4" hose.

Turned up the PSI a little, and tried it.

No joy!

Then I noticed that the other hose, a 50' one, was also 1/4"!

I had been using two hoses, both 1/4" and a total length of 75'!

Unhooked that, and prepared a 50' x 3/8" hose.

Went outside and the Earthquake zipped off the lug nuts in a second or two.

!!!!

Thanks for the advice guys!

Very happy with it now. Not so happy with the idiot who hooked things up......


Bill

 

[inline five]

That gun removed the 20 year old salt encrusted axle nut on my car last week at 90psi (set with trigger pulled). One heck of a gun for $75!

It also beat out new IR 2135timax's easily. Made them look like Chinese junk.

 

[LumpyMusic]

Very happy with it now. Not so happy with the idiot who hooked things up......

Tell him he owes you beer for life.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[iScream]

Awesome

 

[AA/FC]

It also beat out new IR 2135timax's easily. Made them look like Chinese junk.

Let me see if I got this right..... A Chinese junk tool, made a USA produced tool look like Chinese junk?

 

[bczygan]

Just picked up a HF 1/4 In. x 3/8 In. Automotive Series Coupler and Plug Kit 4 Pc part number 68187.

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-x-38-in-automotive-series-coupler-and-plug-kit-4-pc-68187.html

Now, I'm wondering if the extra throughput of 3/8" compared to 1/4" in the fittings, will help. This assumes the size from the compressor matches.

I also want to use a much shorter hose than 50'.

Bill

 

[uglyjacko]

Just picked up a HF 1/4 In. x 3/8 In. Automotive Series Coupler and Plug Kit 4 Pc part number 68187.

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-x-38-in-automotive-series-coupler-and-plug-kit-4-pc-68187.html

Now, I'm wondering if the extra throughput of 3/8" compared to 1/4" in the fittings, will help. This assumes the size from the compressor matches.

I also want to use a much shorter hose than 50'.

Bill

I run those on my whole air set up, can not be beat for price and performance!