1/2 power loss?

[garandman]

We have a 24’x24’ two story detached garage near Mt Sunapee NH. The main electrical panel is in the house.

I noticed that power to the left half of the garage is not working. That includes several wall outlets, and a heater. Same on the second floor.

There appears to be one circuit breaker for the whole garage: in any event none in the main panel are tripped.

Stumped about this. How would we go about troubleshooting?

TIA

 

[pattenp]

Use a meter and check voltage at the panel in the detached garage on the lugs where the feeder connects. Check each hot leg to neutral for 120V and across hot legs for 240V. Do the same off the load side of the main breaker.

 

[Bert_]

Are you saying this is all the same circuit? And only some things on that circuit have power?

Try to visualize how the circuit was ran and find the last device that has power. Start checking connections.

 

[matt_i]

Is the heater 120v or 240vac?

I'm going to guess 120vac since it would be unlikely the entire garage + heater could be fed from a double pole breaker...

Most likely, in a junction box "somewhere" there's either a breakoff tab that burned off an outlet or a high-resistance connection.

It could be that the garage is fed first., iow closes to the panel, and then wiring carries current upstairs. Or could be opposite, that the 2nd floor is fed first, and then connector wiring drops down to the garage.

Unfortunately its probably going to be a time-consuming adventure to try to diagram the existing circuitry so you can understand what is happening and where to look. If there was ever found a junction box with a blank plate I would try that one first, it could be one placed solely for making connections, and not to support the use of a receptacle.

However the connections could also be hidden behind receptacles, so there's the issue of removing cover plates and pulling out receptacles. Ideally this is best done with power-off (turn off circuit breaker)

 

[garandman]

It’s 120 only. Wanted 240 but the elictrician skipped it.

Sounds like Ill have to trace the wiring from where it enters the garage, then figure out where it stops. The 2nd floor is insulated so some of it is covered by insulation....

 

[dogdog]

if both lines on the main circuit breaker are fine, and you only have one breaker to the garage. Then most likely a bad wiring job or something chewed up the wiring... or could be anything....

So start mapping out which plugs/ lights are not working and start opening them up to see... since you don't know how they are being chained...

 

[matt_i]

I had another thought. If you recently drilled a hole in a wall (etc) or screwed something into a "stud" that action right there could have compromised a wire.

 

[garandman]

Good point.

Only other change was propane dealer installed a Hot Dawg heater and wired it, but it worked fine the prior winter.

 

[raco232]

I’ve been on a few calls where your situation sounds familiar. It’s been at a receptacle where the wire was stabbed in the back of the receptacle. Either the wire is not making a good connection or it has popped out of it.

 

[garandman]

Great, thanks!

 

[Bigbandguy]

I had something like that happen once. Turned out that the wire feeding the main breaker was just a bit short and was not under the screw very well. I finally had to solder a pigtail onto it (make sure meter is pulled) to get it long enough to go under the screw properly. It was just short enough to compromise the connection.

 

[garandman]

Found where the power ends at one outlet. Going to check with a multimeter and see what is going on.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Found where the power ends at one outlet. Going to check with a multimeter and see what is going on.

Man, you are playing Sparky EARLY this morning! If power ends at that outlet and should continue, you most likely have a broken connector link on the side of the receptacle, a broken wire, loose wire nut connection, bad back stab connection, a nail or screw through a wire, chewed wire, or any combination of the previous. Do both front attachment spots on the receptacle have power, or is one half dead?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My vote is on burnt up back-stabbed connection...

 

[snyder]

If you use a hammer to tap on all the boxes and fixtures you can usually find the one with a bad connection. Things will flicker and may even stay on when you jar the bad one.

 

[ishiboo]

I had something like that happen once. Turned out that the wire feeding the main breaker was just a bit short and was not under the screw very well. I finally had to solder a pigtail onto it (make sure meter is pulled) to get it long enough to go under the screw properly. It was just short enough to compromise the connection.

You soldered it?

 

[pattenp]

You soldered it?

Is that the sound of fire trucks I hear?

 

[nh_yota]

My vote is on burnt up back-stabbed connection...

Yep. I've found that back-stabbed receptacles located in areas subject to temperature fluctuations (outside walls, outside structures) have a greater tendency to fail due to a loose connection.

 

[garandman]

Here’s where the power stops. The feed in is the top set of wires, which have 120V when checked with the multimeter.

The bottom set feed the dead outlets and show 0 V. Is it as simple as changing out the outlet?

 

[garandman]

Went ahead and changed this outlet and now both plugs work. But nothing downstream works.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Keep pulling them and checking like you did this one. There is often more than one thing wrong in any situation.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Here’s where the power stops. The feed in is the top set of wires, which have 120V when checked with the multimeter.

The bottom set feed the dead outlets and show 0 V. Is it as simple as changing out the outlet?

Umm that looks like a GFCI.

wouldve been good to mention this in the beginning..

Much too deep for regular outlet.

What gave it away is the white faceplate side clip and #12 wire inserted in the sidewire terminals... push-wire terminals are too small for #12...

Does it have buttons on the front and if so did you try resetting it before replacing it?

 

[garandman]

Yes.

Going back up next week and going to keep tracing with the multimeter. A heater was installed two year ago so that may be part of it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You said nothing downstream of the GFCI works? You have power coming into the GFCI on one set of wires but no power on the other?

Did you try resetting the GFCI?

It sounds like you didnt reset the GFVI and that would explain why there is no power coming out of it.

Also, GFCIs have specific "line in" and "load" terminals. Did you make sure that the incoming feed wires are connected to the line in terminals on the GFCI?

If instead you put the incoming feed wires on the load terminals, then thats why youre not getting power downstream...

These terminals cannot be reversed.

 

[garandman]

I replaced the GFCI with a standard receptacle to test, have since purchased a new one.

This setup was installed by an electrician and worked for a year. In starting to think it has something to do with the Hot Dawg heater install. Going back up this week.

Edit: after replacing the GFCI receptacle with a standard one, everything works. All the others are standard receptacles as well. Our inspector objected when we bought the place, so it appears they only replaced one and we didn’t catch it. Unless it would also protect the down-the-line outlets?

 

[6PTsocket]

I replaced the GFCI with a standard receptacle to test, have since purchased a new one.

This setup was installed by an electrician and worked for a year. In starting to think it has something to do with the Hot Dawg heater install. Going back up this week.

Edit: after replacing the GFCI receptacle with a standard one, everything works. All the others are standard receptacles as well. Our inspector objected when we bought the place, so it appears they only replaced one and we didn’t catch it. Unless it would also protect the down-the-line outlets?

That is exactly what they do. My garage gfci circuit then goes to the front porch, bathroom1, bathroom 2, the rear deck and ends in the basement. The gfci protects an outlet and everything downstream of it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[garandman]

I checked the old outlet and it was wired correctly, and the standard socket seems to indicate the rest is good. So now I’ll install a new GFCI.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I replaced the GFCI with a standard receptacle to test, have since purchased a new one.

This setup was installed by an electrician and worked for a year. In starting to think it has something to do with the Hot Dawg heater install. Going back up this week.

Edit: after replacing the GFCI receptacle with a standard one, everything works. All the others are standard receptacles as well. Our inspector objected when we bought the place, so it appears they only replaced one and we didn’t catch it. Unless it would also protect the down-the-line outlets?

You still havent answered my previous question.

Did you try resetting the original GFCI before you replaced it?

And yes the GFCI would protect the downstream outlets if they are wired to the load terminal on the GFCI...

 

[garandman]

You still havent answered my previous question.

It would not reset.

The directions with the new one confirmed it was wired properly.

 

[1/2 Cup]

garandman well done.