1/4 and 1/2 drive deep sockets

[nbpt100]

For 30 years I have survived with out 1/4" and 1/2" drive metric deep sockets. I have never felt I was stalled by not having them. But I am getting more accustomed to using deeps and avoid using an extension if possible. So I am thinking about getting some.

My questions are two fold.
1. Should I get the 12 or 6 point?
2. What deals are out there in a mid grade set? Should anyone know.

I rarely come across a 12 point bolt head. Very rarely. I think the axle nut on my VW is a 30mm 12 point. That is the only one I can think of in recent years which I have needed.

I never even see them in smaller sizes (under 13 mm). I am sure someone will tell me they are out there but I never see them on the cars and ODPE I work on. ODPE is mostly SAE sizes except the Asian engines.

For those reasons I am thinking the 6 pt. would be best serve me on the 1/4" drive and I may be well served with the 12 pt on the 1/2" drive. Just For that rare occasion and for greater engagement points. It is also harder to round a larger nut than a smaller one that you would use in the 1/4" drive range.

Am i missing anything? Any thoughts out there on this ?

 

[californiaHank]

I agree with you on the 1/4" stuff. The only guys who seem to use 12 pt in 1/4" drive are aircraft mechanics, and even then, those are mostly SAE sizes. I use 1/4" deeps a lot, but don't own any 12 point ones.

It's a toss up for the 1/2" deeps. My shallows are mostly 6 pt, and my deeps are 12 pt. I seldom need 12 points, but there's no real disadvantage to using 12s instead of 6s for larger 6 point bolts. Any decent modern socket from any reputable maker is going to have 'off corner engagement'.

I don't use 1/2" deeps a lot, but sometimes they're the only way to get a nut off a long bolt where there's no room for a box wrench. I bought US made Blackhawk, which are decent quality, and can sometimes be found pretty cheap. If I hadn't got Blackhawks at a good price, I probably would have bought the US made Williams ones, which are a step up in quality. I wouldn't consider buying truck brands unless I was using them hard and often, and I don't use them a lot. I use a few common sizes fairly regularly, but after a few years of owning them, a lot of my 1/2" deeps still look brand new. Most of the time I reach for a 1/2" drive chrome socket, it's a shallow one.

 

[T45]

Impact or chromes?

I think alot of alternatives exist these days. No need to buy tools to fill up the box. But for 1/2 deep many folks are using impacts and deep allows you to skip short extensions (less joints, stiffer and better torque transfer).

IF talking strictly about chromes: There are definitely bolt configurations which twart shallow sockets. The obvious solution is to go to a longer-socket. The first way to do this, however, is to simply move up a drive size. So you on't need a longer socket in each/same drive size until you've run out of longer sockets in different drives

The shallow 1/2 socket is 38mm or the same as a 3/8 semi deep. IMHO you can get alot done with sem-deeps vs true deeps. So it sort of follows that the real reason to have deep or semi-deep is to keep using the same (smaller, lighter) drive tools and to avoid switching from say 1/4 to 1/2 drive on a 13 or 14mm. Its alot nicer over time to use the smallest, lightest tools if working with hand tools.

On impacts, the preference is often deep by default for completely different reasons.

Exdluding spark plugs and lug nuts, which are often best done with specialty sockets (deep).

 

[6PTsocket]

For 30 years I have survived with out 1/4" and 1/2" drive metric deep sockets. I have never felt I was stalled by not having them. But I am getting more accustomed to using deeps and avoid using an extension if possible. So I am thinking about getting some.

My questions are two fold.
1. Should I get the 12 or 6 point?
2. What deals are out there in a mid grade set? Should anyone know.

I rarely come across a 12 point bolt head. Very rarely. I think the axle nut on my VW is a 30mm 12 point. That is the only one I can think of in recent years which I have needed.

I never even see them in smaller sizes (under 13 mm). I am sure someone will tell me they are out there but I never see them on the cars and ODPE I work on. ODPE is mostly SAE sizes except the Asian engines.

For those reasons I am thinking the 6 pt. would be best serve me on the 1/4" drive and I may be well served with the 12 pt on the 1/2" drive. Just For that rare occasion and for greater engagement points. It is also harder to round a larger nut than a smaller one that you would use in the 1/4" drive range.

Am i missing anything? Any thoughts out there on this ?

Yes, you are missing the main reason 12 point sockets are made. They have twice as many positions that will line up wth the 6 point nut or bolt head. It is a matter of convenience. Of course, they are needed for 12 point bolt heads but as you pointed out, they are not that common, at least in automotive use. It appears to me that they outsell 6 point sockets except for impact sockets. In the cheaper brands, like Cobalt or Huskey or some HF stuff, there are no 6 point sockets in some sizes. 6 point sockets are relieved at the points so they bear on the flats. They are far less likely to round off a bolt or nut than a 12 point, that only grabs six small points. When you run into a really rusty tight one, you want a 6 point socket.

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[brooktre]

"I rarely come across a 12 point bolt head. Very rarely."

I don't ever recall coming across a 12 point bolt UNTIL last week. I was helping my son tear down his Subaru motor and the block was held together by some 12 pt. 12mm bolts. My shallow sockets worked.

 

[bcradio]

I would say 6 point for both. You almost never have seen 12pt you said and when/if you come across more, a shallow 12pt socket should work just fine.

What have you been using for lug nuts all these years?

 

[rlitman]

Yes, you are missing the main reason 12 point sockets are made. They have twice as many positions that will line up wth the 6 point nut or bolt head. It is a matter of convenience. Of course, they are needed for 12 point bolt heads but as you pointed out, they are not that common, at least in automotive use...

The main reason 12 point sockets are made is because you can start with a larger hole bored into the blank before broaching. They're simply cheaper to make.

I can't say I have ever seen a 12 point nut. 12 point cap bolt, sure, they exist in automotive use, though I don't recall the last time I've seen one. 12 point nuts, well I can find them on Google, but I don't know where you'd ever encounter one.

For that reason, I don't see a call for 12 point deep sockets.

 

[d.mcfarland]

6 point.

 

[American Locomotive]

12 point nuts and bolts are very common on engine head bolts & studs. Ford also likes to use 12 point driveshaft flange bolts.

 

[ecotec]

I would buy 6pt sets, and 12pt individual sockets for the jobs with 12pt fasteners.

 

[ecotec]

Having said that... if you run into a kick *** set at an estate sale for super cheap...

 

[mcbassin]

I love my 1/4" and 1/2" deep well 6 points. I have stripped plenty of 12 point sockets over the years.

 

[thatguysb]

shallow 12 point 1/2 drive is needed for asian vehicles, especially the heads like above and the flywheel bolts

1/4 deep is great for small jobs as i rarely ever use the shallow 1/4 6 point.

impact from 10mm to 26mm plus the axle sockets are great. 6 point.

 

[willjogervais]

12 point nuts and bolts are very common on engine head bolts & studs. Ford also likes to use 12 point driveshaft flange bolts.

This ^

 

[kb1982]

I read about people not seeing many 12 pt bolts and all that comes to mind is header bolts, drive shaft bolts, connecting rod bolts, and most of the time any fastener that says arp on it.

 

[redvalkyrie]

12 point nuts and bolts are very common on engine head bolts & studs. Ford also likes to use 12 point driveshaft flange bolts.

Yup. ARP uses 12 point studs for at least their Japan import bolts and studs. Head bolts, head studs, nuts, flywheel bolts, rod bolts, and rod studs. Other than that I rarely see them. However, I do have a complete 12 point set for those times I do come across a 12 point bolt.

 

[mcmtech]

For 1/2 get a set of 6pt deep impact sockets, couldn't tell you the last time I used 1/2 chrome stuff. . For 1/4 I'd look at a set of semi deep 6 points. The gearwrench ones go to 15mm, and it's nearly the only 1/4 drive stuff I use professionally. I only use a true deep or shallow as needed.

 

[6PTsocket]

The main reason 12 point sockets are made is because you can start with a larger hole bored into the blank before broaching. They're simply cheaper to make.

I can't say I have ever seen a 12 point nut. 12 point cap bolt, sure, they exist in automotive use, though I don't recall the last time I've seen one. 12 point nuts, well I can find them on Google, but I don't know where you'd ever encounter one.

For that reason, I don't see a call for 12 point deep sockets.

I sorely doubt that 12 points are made to save money. To check out your theory I randomly picked out an SK socket from a big SK dealer, Circle C. A 14mm, 3/8 drive shallow is $5.25 in 6pt and $6.00 in12 pt. It came out just the opposite of your claim.. It is a time consuming process but feel free to check other sizes and brands using the same source for each.

The main reason 12 point sockets are made is because you can start with a larger hole bored into the blank before broaching. They're simply cheaper to make.

I can't say I have ever seen a 12 point nut. 12 point cap bolt, sure, they exist in automotive use, though I don't recall the last time I've seen one. 12 point nuts, well I can find them on Google, but I don't know where you'd ever encounter one.

For that reason, I don't see a call for 12 point deep sockets.

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[6PTsocket]

For 1/2 get a set of 6pt deep impact sockets, couldn't tell you the last time I used 1/2 chrome stuff. . For 1/4 I'd look at a set of semi deep 6 points. The gearwrench ones go to 15mm, and it's nearly the only 1/4 drive stuff I use professionally. I only use a true deep or shallow as needed.

I agree but now and then impacts are too thick so I picked up cheap sets of metric deep and shallow 1/2" from Eastwood. They are OK but I should have bought Tekton. They do not get used a whole lot.


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[Infinia]

For 30 years I have survived with out 1/4" and 1/2" drive metric deep sockets. I have never felt I was stalled by not having them.
Am i missing anything? Any thoughts out there on this ?

Unless your work is going to change, I don't think you'll be missing them now.

A complete set 3/8 6pt deeps should cover the most used sizes and will be overlapped by buying in 1/4 & 1/2. Remember a 10 / 12 mm short in 1/2 drive is deep compared to 1/4 shrty right.

Changing suspension parts and engine motor mounts I couldn't see doing it without 1/2 deeps.

 

[nbpt100]

I would say 6 point for both. You almost never have seen 12pt you said and when/if you come across more, a shallow 12pt socket should work just fine.

What have you been using for lug nuts all these years?

I did not offer this up but I do have metric 6 PT Impact deeps. I also do it the old fashion way at times with a cross bar. Looking at chrome sockets for the thinner walls to get into tight areas.

For 1/2 get a set of 6pt deep impact sockets, couldn't tell you the last time I used 1/2 chrome stuff. . For 1/4 I'd look at a set of semi deep 6 points. The gearwrench ones go to 15mm, and it's nearly the only 1/4 drive stuff I use professionally. I only use a true deep or shallow as needed.

Ok. but why the semi over the full deep in 1/4? I use the 1/4 Deep in SAE all the time and find it to be fine. Are yo saying the Semi are cheaper and they work for you most all of the time? If you were to only have one set. Semi or full deep, you choose the semi? I guess I don't understand why is the Semi superior to the Deep?

I do have the 6 pt deep impacts but wanted the chrome for the tight areas you may encounter. After reading everyone's rationals I am leaning towards the 12 pt. on the 1/2" drives. Always was leaning toward the 6 pt on the 1/4 drive and now I am convinced.

I agree but now and then impacts are too thick so I picked up cheap sets of metric deep and shallow 1/2" from Eastwood. They are OK but I should have bought Tekton. They do not get used a whole lot.


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That is where I am coming from. Want something considered mid grade like a Gear Wrench, Tekton etc. with good laser markings. I am getting tired of straining to read the size. Thanks for all of the fast and thoughtful responses. I will be looking on ebay and elsewhere.

 

[L.Cheapo]

While we're on the subject, does anyone own any recent production 1/4" drive deep sockets made by SK? Like them? Would you buy them again? Epsteins day is coming up and I could use a quality US made set. I was going to buy Snap On, but I'd like to give SK a chance.

 

[md21722]

12 point are for specialty purposes. Depending on who you talk to Chrome is a speciality socket anymore. I have 1/4 and 1/2 chrome and impact, 6 pt, deep and shallow, and some 12 points in chrome and impact. For something like driveshaft bolts on Fords, yeah its 12 pt, but impact just buzzes them out. I have a couple of mid length for tight areas. Buy full sets of mid lengths if you want to fill up your box or spend money. All of my chrome are Snap On and my impacts are Matco/Snap On. I don't have time for cheap tools. If you use them all the time you will want backups for sockets that wear out or break if you don't work in shop where you can borrow them until they are warrantied on the truck.

 

[SnapOnAddiction]

I just inherited my dad's snap on collection, and he had complete sets of 6 and 12 points I don't see the reasoning to have both but I do.

Have no idea why I'd need 12 point 1/4 sockets or 1/2.
For some reason Snap on charges more for 12 point sockets I guess its more work for them and thier processes idk.

I rarely need a deep socket but use them exclusively for impacts unless space doesn't allow.

If i were you I'd just get on ebay and get some good used American made vintage socket sets. Good deals are out there I paid $25 for my 1/2 Cornwell impacts and matco 1/4 swivel and shallow sockets all the same price and USA .

 

[slip knot]

I recently bought a set of Gearwrench mids in 3/8 and they threw in a set of 1/4s. all 6 point. I've really enjoyed using them.

 

[jdrautoworks]

12pt. Grey Pneumatic (GP) and never look back check out tooltopia.com. The only socket that could handle 3600 ft.lb. on a 12pt. 36mm I was sold after that.

 

[pstemari]

12pt. Grey Pneumatic (GP) and never look back check out tooltopia.com. The only socket that could handle 3600 ft.lb. on a 12pt. 36mm I was sold after that.

How the heck did you get 3600 ft-lb? 2-3 guys standing on the end of a six foot cheater bar?

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[jdrautoworks]

How the heck did you get 3600 ft-lb? 2-3 guys standing on the end of a six foot cheater bar?

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Using a RAD Gun, $300 socket, $15,000 torque multiplier. Google a O&K RH340 or a CAT 6060. I work on somewhat larger equipment, but out of all the truck brands and Proto GP was the only one and I hung up Snap On after that.

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

6 point all the way!

 

[chinsk]

I rarely come across a 12 point bolt head. Very rarely. I think the axle nut on my VW is a 30mm 12 point. That is the only one I can think of in recent years which I have needed.


If you've got a VW, its most likely got a 19mm 12 point crank bolt....which you'll need to turn if you ever change your timing belt.

 

[Spacey_G]

Maybe the higher prices for 12-point sockets are explained more by lower demand than higher production costs.

 

[Tallpilot]

Use the Tekton sale to fill up your box. The more sockets you have in your box the more possibilities you will have to have the perfect length tool for that particular fastener location.

 

[nbpt100]

If you've got a VW, its most likely got a 19mm 12 point crank bolt....which you'll need to turn if you ever change your timing belt.

Thanks for that heads up as I will be doing it in the next year.

Maybe the higher prices for 12-point sockets are explained more by lower demand than higher production costs.

Or the real high demand when you absolutely need it!

Using a RAD Gun, $300 socket, $15,000 torque multiplier. Google a O&K RH340 or a CAT 6060. I work on somewhat larger equipment, but out of all the truck brands and Proto GP was the only one and I hung up Snap On after that.

$15,000. Is that USD? If so what is that thing made for, the Space Shuttle?

 

[warweapon762]

"I rarely come across a 12 point bolt head. Very rarely."

I don't ever recall coming across a 12 point bolt UNTIL last week. I was helping my son tear down his Subaru motor and the block was held together by some 12 pt. 12mm bolts. My shallow sockets worked.

I prefer Universal/Spline sockets in these situations (since they can be used on 6,12,square,spline,etc).

The main reason was because I had to tear down a Kia Rio motor and found that it was literally 12 points and Spline. I have a couple sets I use specifically on import cars because you never know what will be encountered with those vehicles.