1/4 and 3/8 Socket Overlap - How to Decide?

[oldschoolcraft]

Good thread on 3/8 and 1/2 overlap in this thread a few months ago. I own a full set of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 drive in shallow and deep. Because GJ told me so. But I'm re-organizing my tools into kits, a few are minimalist for portability.

I was a 1/4 and 1/2 guy for a long time and recently picked up 3/8 for my portable kit. My 3/8 set goes 8mm to 19mm and my plan was to skip 1/4 drive entirely. And have a streamlined set of 1/2" drive deep impacts for just the sizes I need.

People told me I'm crazy, I need 1/4" drive. If I wanted to be minimalistic about it, how can I pare down to reduce overlap? I think the reason for 1/4" drive is either for sizes smaller than 3/8" drive comes in or for tight places where 3/8" drive can't fit. And that's it, right?

If that's true, then I dont think I need 1/4" deep in any sizes that I have 3/8 deep. Because if I can fit a deep socket on it, I can fit a 3/8 deep socket right?

So then for 1/4" drive, I just need deep from the smallest up to 7mm since 3/8" drive starts at 8. And I would get shallow 1/4" all the way up to 15mm in case my 3/8 are too big?

I have Koken Zeal sockets, can I get away with those instead of 1/4" drive shallow? They start at 8mm so I could do 3/8" drive in all of Zeal Low Profile, Shallow, and Deep? I think I still need shallow even if I have Zeal due to lower engagement the Zeal might not get enough torque on tight fasteners? Or can I do Zeal + Deep in 3/8 and skip shallow?

I also have 1/4" drive SO universals in all sizes up to 15mm. I could get 3/8" drive universals but I've read if I can fit a 3/8 universal then I can fit a universal adapter + shallow 3/8 socket. The reason why SO 1/4" universals are so highly liked is because of low profile nature for tight spaces.

There's the question of what size do I start at? I dont think my car has anything less than 8mm even in the dash, but to make the kit more universal I could start lower. 5mm? 4mm? My "home base" 1/4" drive sockets go down to 3mm but I dont think I'm going to run across anything that small on cars. What is the smallest I actually need for a small kit?

These are the types of sockets that are options, and I have most of them, so I'm not even buying more stuff. Just figuring out what to pack in this kit:

• 1/4 Shallow
• 1/4 Deep
• 1/4 Universal Shallow - SO
• 3/8 Zeal Super Shallow
• 3/8 Shallow
• 3/8 Deep
• 3/8 Universal Shallow Chrome - SO
• 3/8 Universal "Ball" Impact - Astro

From those options, how do you design a set with the least overlap from X up to 19mm (which is where my 1/2" drive takes over)? And what is the starting point if you are working on cars?

 

[ForrestT]

I rarely use 1/2” drive. If 3/8” won’t do it I use impact wrench. I’m not a mechanic though. Love 1/4” drive and 3/8” drive though.

 

[f121]

1/4 up to 13mm
3/8 10-19

Because I never use 3/8 below 10mm and never use my 14 or 15mm 1/4.

Where to start 1/4 is harder. I regularly use 7mm on hose clips, occasionally 6mm. Rare I use smaller sizes, but it does happen. If I cared about portability I’d happily stop at 7mm and use a screwdriver for the odd 6mm hose clip

 

[CS454]

1/4" to 5/8.
1/2" from 9/16.

I've forgone 3/8" wherever possible with good success, but I used to stick with 1/4-3/4 and 7-19mm.

 

[Wamsutta]

1/4" drive - 5mm thru 15mm A265A

3/8" drive - 8mm thru 19mm A269A

1/2" drive - 12mm thru 24mm A270A

 

[oldschoolcraft]

If I cared about portability I’d happily stop at 7mm and use a screwdriver for the odd 6mm jubilee clip

I wonder how many Americans will get that reference? I dont think jubilee brand worm hose clamps are readily available in the US. I know about them because I had researched in the past to upgrade hose clamps for my car. And I almost ordered a bunch off eBay to be imported from England, but then I learned the factory constant tension clamps are superior for car coolant hoses, especially ones that connect onto plastic. So I just bought new factory clamps and didn't get any jubilees, but I still want some for non-car applications. Allegedly far superior than anything in the US.

 

[Wamsutta]

1/4" drive - 3/16" thru 9/16" A265A

3/8" drive - 1/4" thru 7/8" A269A

1/2" drive - 3/8" thru 1 1/2" A270A

 

[Wamsutta]

1/4" drive metric don't forget the 5.5mm.
1/4" drive standard don't forget the 7/32, 9/32, and 11/32.
3/8" drive standard don't forget the 11/32.

 

[sparky 1971]

I'm not going to give any opinions on the sizes to stop and start at, but if you are planning on cutting off the top end of the 1/4" drive sizes, you should consider a 3/8" drive compact ratchet. If you only want 13 mm in 3/8 drive, there will be a time you wished you had it in 1/4 and a compact ratchet (3/8 drive in a 1/4" body) could be a game changer.

 

[Blind1]

What kind of kits?

In my Tacoma I have 3/8 drive shallows in 5/16, 8,10,12,14,17,19,24, 10mm hex. 1/2 drive 21mm and 35mm on a breaker bar.

That’s it. I can take the whole truck apart if need be. Would I? No, but I can change a cv or something on a backroad in a pinch.

In my wife’s VW I have a rail with 1/4 drive 10,13, t20,t25,t30, 3/8 drive 5/16, t45, 5mm hex 6mm hex, and a couple triple squares. 1/2 drive 19mm on a breaker bar. Would I use any of these? Maybe.

All of the above fit into small pouches minus the breaker bars.

If you are building kits, tailor them for what you are doing.

Otherwise, a single rail with 1/4 drive 5-15, and 1/2 drive 16-24.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

What kind of kits?

General purpose mechanics kit. Suppose I'm asked by a friend or family member to do a basic car repair that is within the scope of my abilities. I want to be able to grab a small box that weighs 50 pounds, take it there, and be fairly confident I can tackle most things I would be able to do. I also want it for my car, since I have to do my work at a friend's driveway due to apartment living. Though I'm also putting together a streamlined JIS kit for my own basic car repairs. So I dont have to lug a 50+ pound box with me if I'm just changing a radiator which I could quite frankly do with 2 non-ratcheting combination wrenches.

I lack drive train/suspension experience, and that work seems to require lots of hammers, pry bars, and 1/2-drive tools. So not that stuff. Maybe eventually I'd make a second kit for that, but that would probably be another 75 pounds just for that second kit.

What I want to avoid is what I've been doing for the last decade. Which is estimating what tools I'll need for a job, scooping them into a bucket from my apartment (and in some cases from storage in a family member's garage), taking them with me, hoping I have everything, hoping I didn't forget anything, and hoping there's no fasteners that are of sizes I didnt' anticipate.

Maybe I watch a video on how to change a water pump in a certain model car my aunt drives, and when I get there, I realize that there was an aftermarket part in there already that uses a different fastener size. So that's where having no skips socket set comes in.

I picked up a 20" Proto Toolbox MiUSA for a great price, steel, and I also picked up Snap On 3/8 shallow and deep sockets nearly new, for a steal. I got them for Icon prices. I never got lucky in the past, but it's been a good week. So I want to turn this 20" toolbox into something that weighs something I can carry to and from my car without dying. Maybe 50 pounds. That will have a no-skips socket set that can do most things non-suspension related on a car.

And then for things like brakes, I'd add in those tools to a bucket as needed. But the basics, the stuff that can do 90% of work would be in this toolbox. 8mm to 19mm combination wrenches no skips. 3/8 drive no skips. Two ratchets. A few extension. A few pliers. One hammer. Trying to limit the 1/4" drive stuff to what would be absolutely essential and can't be done with 3/8

 

[oldschoolcraft]

In my Tacoma I have 3/8 drive shallows in 5/16, 8,10,12,14,17,19,24, 10mm hex. 1/2 drive 21mm and 35mm on a breaker bar.

5/16" is so close to 8mm as to be nearly indistinguishable. 0.063mm difference. That's half the thickness of a sheet of printer paper. I doubt tool manufactures even have different tooling for these two sizes, the tolerances of the tooling probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Just saved you one socket

 

[DAustin]

I've got
1/4" drive that start at 3mm, and go to 14mm
3/8" drive that start at 5.5mm, and go up to 24mm
1/2" drive that start at 8mm and go up to 36mm
I guess I just like buying sockets.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

I've got
1/4" drive that start at 3mm, and go to 14mm
3/8" drive that start at 5.5mm, and go up to 24mm
1/2" drive that start at 8mm and go up to 36mm
I guess I just like buying sockets.

I've got 1/4" drive from 3mm to 15mm in shallow, deep, and most of that also in SO Universal Chrome (starts around 5mm)
Also got 3/8" drive from 8mm to 19mm in shallow, deep, and Astro Universal Impact
And 1/2" drive in shallow and deep chrome, deep impact, and Astro Universal Impact

I like buying sockets too I just can't carry all of that, plus extensions and ratchets of all drive sizes with me so I'm looking to minimize what's in this 20" toolbox I'm assembling.

 

[Robinson1]

I’d steer you towards something like a Williams 50661 set. Comes in a compact case of decent quality doesn’t weigh much and will cover most things you’re likely to encounter. I can’t remember the last time I used a 1/4” drive deep socket.

As far as overlap it really depends on the application at hand. Size ranges exist to make a set more versatile. That being said common sense must be used.

 

[Robinson1]

For what it’s worth here’s the 1/4” drive set that stays in my mobile tool box it’s a $20 Hart set from Walmart. Size range is 4mm-15mm including 4.5mm & 5.5mm (if you drive Fords that 5.5mm is important) and 5/32”-9/16”. I use the standard sockets as much as the metric but not a lot of what I work on is automotive.

The Williams set I mentioned above would be a higher grade offering of a similar set.

 

[f121]

I wonder how many Americans will get that reference? I dont think jubilee brand worm hose clamps are readily available in the US. I know about them because I had researched in the past to upgrade hose clamps for my car.

I hadn’t realised that jubilee branded hose clips were a British thing! You’re right, they are superior to unbranded worm drive hose clips…every now and again I come across one and think ‘well this isn’t complete junk’, look at it and see it’s a Jubilee. The factory spring ones are good, but you have to be careful. I’m used to being able to slide worm drive clips down the hose for storage after they are released, did that with a sprung hose clip and it put a hole in the bottom hose.

General purpose mechanics kit. Suppose I'm asked by a friend or family member to do a basic car repair that is within the scope of my abilities. I want to be able to grab a small box that weighs 50 pounds, take it there, and be fairly confident I can tackle most things I would be able to do. I also want it for my car, since I have to do my work at a friend's driveway due to apartment living. Though I'm also putting together a streamlined JIS kit for my own basic car repairs. So I dont have to lug a 50+ pound box with me if I'm just changing a radiator which I could quite frankly do with 2 non-ratcheting combination wrenches.

This thread may be worth a read (although I think the conclusion is ‘have rac van’) https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...evability-what-would-you-add-or-leave.526378/

This sort of scenario is where I see the benefit of a blow moulded socket set - easy to carry and can instantly see if something is missing.

This is my mobile set, it does most stuff. Details on the contents in the linked thread. If I’m doing something suspension related on a bigger vehicle I’ll throw 1/2” tools and an impact into a toolbag, or add a long 3/8” ratchet.

What I want to avoid is what I've been doing for the last decade. Which is estimating what tools I'll need for a job, scooping them into a bucket from my apartment (and in some cases from storage in a family member's garage), taking them with me, hoping I have everything, hoping I didn't forget anything, and hoping there's no fasteners that are of sizes I didnt' anticipate.

Urghh stuff that. Grab and go makes life so much easier (I also have worked mobile for years). Doing a wiring job recently I realised it was taking me 15 mins at each end to load my truck, it’s crazy how much time you burn just trying to figure out what you need to take.

The bucket thing is weird, it came up on another thread of mobile work, as a better option to packout/t-stack (which might be worth considering..), but I’ve never seen anyone working out of a bucket in the UK. For starters the bucket would fill up with rain and all your tools would go rusty

 

[Dave455]

For general use, you want as much overlap as feasible.

Personally, I have 1/4 drive up to 14mm, 3/8 from 7 to 19, and 1/2 from 10mm. Gives me loads of options on the mid sizes.

For portable use, you are absolutely correct, if you can get away with just one drive size (generally 3/8) that minimises what you have to carry. I have done this in my own road box, and have 8 to 19mm.

The problem is that sometimes, that just isn’t enough. I get around this by having additional “sets” in the other drive sizes that I can just pick up and take with me if needed. I have a Hazet set that includes 1/4 and 1/2 drive tools that’s just perfect for this, but in 1/2 drive you need a long ratchet or flex handle - the short ones provided in sets are totally inadequate.

If you are going to carry 1/4 drive regularly, then consider just carrying what you need, rather than a set. Typically, I’ve seldom needed anything other than 6 & 7mm sockets (for hose clips) and 8 & 10 (for bolts). A long ratchet and some sensible extensions (include long ones) work well too. This is all I generally carry.


What you will need, especially in 1/4 drive, are male hex / inhex sockets, and torx sockets. These are just everywhere now, and 1/4 drive tools are the easiest way to tackle them. Much more versatile than carrying Torx drivers and hex keys, and more compact too. In my road box I just carry the bit holder shown, as I already have a big set of bits.

The other option is to consider a small / comprehensive 1/4 drive set. Facom do these “Nano” sets really well, but even these include a load of socket sizes you will most likely never need.

 

[Dave455]

I wonder how many Americans will get that reference? I dont think jubilee brand worm hose clamps are readily available in the US. I know about them because I had researched in the past to upgrade hose clamps for my car. And I almost ordered a bunch off eBay to be imported from England, but then I learned the factory constant tension clamps are superior for car coolant hoses, especially ones that connect onto plastic. So I just bought new factory clamps and didn't get any jubilees, but I still want some for non-car applications. Allegedly far superior than anything in the US.

In the U.K. the term “Jubilee clip” is generally used for any worm drive hose clip, much the same as any vacuum cleaner might be called a “Hoover”.

In practice, the genuine ”Jubilee” clips are by far the best out there, and the company offers a huge variety.

I do a lot of work on classic vehicles, and one thing I hate with a passion are this sort of hose clip. You might as well call them “hose killers” as that’s all they do!


If I find them I remove them as standard, and replace with proper Jubilee clips, which I keep in my stores. They offer stainless clips too, which are a nice upgrade.


Some of the styles available are a huge upgrade.

What I want to avoid is what I've been doing for the last decade. Which is estimating what tools I'll need for a job, scooping them into a bucket from my apartment (and in some cases from storage in a family member's garage), taking them with me, hoping I have everything, hoping I didn't forget anything, and hoping there's no fasteners that are of sizes I didnt' anticipate.

Been there and done that. I suspect most GJ members have.

Taking the time and effort (more that than money) to put together a sensible portable kit / road box was the best thing I did.

Mine started out as a kit I kept on my then only vehicle, but I found I was using it more than my other tools as I always had it with me.

Gently expanding it to handle a greater variety of tasks has helped me loads. My shop tools don’t get damaged either, as I’m not constantly carrying them around.

 

[AEAdam]

With the advent of high quality, high strength 1/4” drive ratchets, and sockets, I find 1/4” drive, which used to be suitable only for assembling barbecue grills, is now a legit engine compartment tool set.

Access is one reason to choose 1/4”, but I choose it because it’s lighter and faster turning, right sized for low torque fasteners, especially the many fasteners threaded into or through plastic components.

The classic SO T72 style ratchet, while lighter and faster than a 3/8“ stubby, is almost too small for my use. I find the flex head hard handle models to be a sweet spot, offering torque, reach, and yet still fast enough.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I stated personalising lots to the vehicles. But I do have a gen use/junk yard kit.
Consisting of a DeWalt/Stanley Tstak independent trolly and Tstack tool bag.

I carry:

1/4 = 6 to 14mm short/long
3/8 = 8 to 19Mm short/long
1/2 impact = 10 to 32mm Short/long
1/4-3/8 hex 4 to 10

3/8 extendable ratchet from duralast
Short and long 1/4 ratchet
1/2 Ryobi mid torque

I carry more tools but that's all the sockets. Pay attention to what you use and remote items not needed. The kit is not super heavy, and the wheels help a lot. Don't have to carry them, just roll it.

As for personalised tools Kits. I buy trusco metal tool boxes and foam from shadow. 1 day and go through the car with various sockets to know what you need. Most manuals also have the most used sizes listed. I don't carry specialty tools. The name in games is quick fixes, you not going to disassemble the car on the road.

 

[silkman]

I'd be heretic and say to the op skip the 3/8 entirely for a road kit. You need a good 1/4 and 1/2 set in a blow mould case plus a few extra sockets. The times I've needed long sockets I can count to one hand and mostly then I didn't have one (eg 24mm long double hex). But I have some extra extensions in 1/4". I only carry 1/4" long 7 10 13 and 14 sockets that dont need a lot of room. Plus a full line of external hex and allens in socket rails. A pick, an extendable 1/2" ratchet for wheels bolts and tough situations and two torque wrenches 2.5 to 120Nm. A full set of combinations wrenches 8-22 and ratcheting in 10 13 15 17 19. A set of impact cap screwdrivers, pliers, silicone grease silicone spray and wd40.

And two hose clamp pliers.

I'm talking about euro cars of course, no idea about american ones. But I think you can do 95% of car related jobs with the above tools.

There will always be a job that you will be missing tools, don't go in that wormhole.

 

[M635_Guy]

Good thread on 3/8 and 1/2 overlap in this thread a few months ago. I own a full set of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 drive in shallow and deep. Because GJ told me so.

This is your first mistake. If you listen too literally to this place you'll need a warehouse for your tools and you won't have a retirement plan.

I was a 1/4 and 1/2 guy for a long time and recently picked up 3/8 for my portable kit. My 3/8 set goes 8mm to 19mm and my plan was to skip 1/4 drive entirely. And have a streamlined set of 1/2" drive deep impacts for just the sizes I need.

People told me I'm crazy, I need 1/4" drive. If I wanted to be minimalistic about it, how can I pare down to reduce overlap? I think the reason for 1/4" drive is either for sizes smaller than 3/8" drive comes in or for tight places where 3/8" drive can't fit. And that's it, right?

If that's true, then I dont think I need 1/4" deep in any sizes that I have 3/8 deep. Because if I can fit a deep socket on it, I can fit a 3/8 deep socket right?

So then for 1/4" drive, I just need deep from the smallest up to 7mm since 3/8" drive starts at 8. And I would get shallow 1/4" all the way up to 15mm in case my 3/8 are too big?

I have Koken Zeal sockets, can I get away with those instead of 1/4" drive shallow? They start at 8mm so I could do 3/8" drive in all of Zeal Low Profile, Shallow, and Deep? I think I still need shallow even if I have Zeal due to lower engagement the Zeal might not get enough torque on tight fasteners? Or can I do Zeal + Deep in 3/8 and skip shallow?

I also have 1/4" drive SO universals in all sizes up to 15mm. I could get 3/8" drive universals but I've read if I can fit a 3/8 universal then I can fit a universal adapter + shallow 3/8 socket. The reason why SO 1/4" universals are so highly liked is because of low profile nature for tight spaces.

There's the question of what size do I start at? I dont think my car has anything less than 8mm even in the dash, but to make the kit more universal I could start lower. 5mm? 4mm? My "home base" 1/4" drive sockets go down to 3mm but I dont think I'm going to run across anything that small on cars. What is the smallest I actually need for a small kit?

These are the types of sockets that are options, and I have most of them, so I'm not even buying more stuff. Just figuring out what to pack in this kit:

• 1/4 Shallow
• 1/4 Deep
• 1/4 Universal Shallow - SO
• 3/8 Zeal Super Shallow
• 3/8 Shallow
• 3/8 Deep
• 3/8 Universal Shallow Chrome - SO
• 3/8 Universal "Ball" Impact - Astro

From those options, how do you design a set with the least overlap from X up to 19mm (which is where my 1/2" drive takes over)? And what is the starting point if you are working on cars?

I'm a pretty-active DIY'er for my home and six family cars. Because this place made me crazy and I do travel with old cars and carry tools just-in-case, I have multiple duplicate sets of 1/4" and 3/8" standard-length chrome (all metric - haven't needed SAE in years, except maybe a 1/4" 1/4"), but obviously I could do just fine with any single set in the slots.

My working set is as follows:
- 1/4" chrome - standard length.
- 1/4" chrome - super-short (which mainly pairs with the Icon flex-bit-ratchet-thingy, which I love)
- 3/8" chrome - standard length. Tekton is a little long here for me, so I prefer my Icon (or Snap On) because at the shorter end (14mm and below) they get shallower
- 3/8" chrome - long. I don't use them often, but I've never wished for a 1/4" or 1/2" set (at least for chrome). They're Tekton - no dupe sets (and probably won't ever be)
- 1/2" chrome - standard length. Used less than 10% of the time. Maybe as little as 5%. They're bulky and overly long for a lot of what I work on, and I don't like the 1/2" ratchets I have either.

Close to 2/3 of my work is done with 3/8" standard sockets, at least with hand-ratchets. Most of the rest is 1/4" (I have a Mini as well as a BMW that is fond of 10mm nuts). I love most of my 1/4" and 3/8" ratchets. I don't have a 1/2" I'm attached to.

For impacts I just went for a 1/2" set of standard and long sockets so I have access to the larger sizes used by hub nuts etc. that would tax a 3/8" (IMHO) and are harder to find in those 38mm to 44mm sizes.

And that's it.

The runs overlap a fair bit between the chrome ranges. I can't think of the last time I didn't have a socket that I needed.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

(eg 24mm long double hex)

Earlier today I learned the term bi-hex. And now I hear "double hex". it must be 12-point diversity day on GJ! I'm learning lots of new terms for what I always just called 12-point... because of the... 12 points.

 

[mike93lx]

This is your first mistake. If you listen too literally to this place you'll need a warehouse for your tools and you won't have a retirement plan.

Slippery slope for sure. I've bought some legitimately useful tools that I learned about here, but also recognize that I need to sit on a new tool purchase for a bit before pulling the trigger. A month sitting in the Amazon cart saves a lot of money.

Knipex twin grips have been there for a year and in that time, I haven't once come across an instance where I really wished I had them...

 

[Supertech]

more often than not when i work on cars i grab 2 things. my ratcheting wrench set and 1/4 drive set. if i need something else ill walk back to the tool box.


id suggest a complete 1/4 drive set in metric, shallow and deep. 3/8 from 10-19 and a spark plug socket amd torx or allens if needed. maybe one or two 1/2 deep sockets in sizes you know that you would need. add a set of wrenches, 12 inch crescents, 11n1 screw driver, big screw driver/prybar/gasket scraper, and a few pairs of pliers like channellocks, wire cutters, and vise grips etc. then throw in some magnets, picks, flash light and roll

 

[oldschoolcraft]

- 1/4" chrome - super-short (which mainly pairs with the Icon flex-bit-ratchet-thingy, which I love)

I hadn't considered those. I do have the Koken Zeal which I measured, and if I put them on a regular 3/8 ratchet, and then put the same size socket in 1/4 shallow on a 1/4 regular ratchet. They are the same size/height, in spite of the much smaller ratchet itself, the Zeals make it smaller. But of course less fastener engagement on the Zeals.

The super short 1/4 will have the same engagement issue as the 3/8 Zeals but they'll be even even shorter, and I do have the Icon meme bit ratchet already!

 

[john.k]

Everything is bi now.....you must not discriminate against bi s .....or is that non -bi s .........so complicated

 

[john.k]

Anyhoo,as to working out of a bucket ........up the road from here was tractor yard ....J.S.Williams ,to be exact .....the man claimed to own 100 D9Gs and Hs,and 100 637 scrapers ..........and lots else from draglines to 35 ton Euclids .........anyhoo,it was a place for the desparate .....all work done in a muddy /dusty yard ,out in the blazing sun ..............this is where the bucket came in.........tools get so hot you couldnt touch them after 10 minutes in the sun, ,stored in a bucket of water while in use.

 

[M635_Guy]

I hadn't considered those. I do have the Koken Zeal which I measured, and if I put them on a regular 3/8 ratchet, and then put the same size socket in 1/4 shallow on a 1/4 regular ratchet. They are the same size/height, in spite of the much smaller ratchet itself, the Zeals make it smaller. But of course less fastener engagement on the Zeals.

The super short 1/4 will have the same engagement issue as the 3/8 Zeals but they'll be even even shorter, and I do have the Icon meme bit ratchet already!

The Z-series sockets are about as short as the ones I got at O'Reilly's for $18, but don't have the 11mm hex at the back (that hasn't come in handy yet, but might one day).

Ko-ken vs. PowerTorque

 

[bobg03]

This is your first mistake. If you listen too literally to this place you'll need a warehouse for your tools and you won't have a retirement plan.

Or a house, OP with the collection of "I may needs" that y'all are attempting to gather/obtain, I'd reconsider a house and get a large building with 2 overhead doors and build an efficiency apartment in the mezzanine overhead or tucked in a corner. If you get a set-up like that and get a lift, a truck and a trailer y'all will find a lot of like minded folks to tinker and learn with.

I'm sorry but your obsessive desire to obtain ssssoooo many tools you may or may never use, just tells me that the cart really isn't aware that it's in front of the horse.

 

[speed bump]

Walk into the store (doesn't matter which tool/home improvement/farm store) and buy the biggest socket set you want to pack around. Done, no debating, no worrying, work on stuff long enough and you will adapt to what you want.

Personally I run 1/4 from tiny to 1/2 or 13mm. I have bigger because sometimes they are nice to have but you don't need them.

I run 3/8 from 21 and 1" down to 8mm and 5/16" I have smaller but I don't need them and you could stop at 3/8"/10mm. 90+% of my use is 3/8 sockets hopefully on an impact so I have the biggest selection possible.

I'm pretty sure I have just about everything 1/2 from 10mm-3/8 to 1-9/16 and 36mm. You don't need anything smaller than say 1/2-13mm and the big stuff I have is an excuse to not break out 3/4" sockets. 99% of my vehicle use is 15-16-17-18-19-21-22-24.

 

[MovingAlong]

Good thread on 3/8 and 1/2 overlap in this thread a few months ago. I own a full set of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 drive in shallow and deep. Because GJ told me so. But I'm re-organizing my tools into kits, a few are minimalist for portability.

I was a 1/4 and 1/2 guy for a long time and recently picked up 3/8 for my portable kit. My 3/8 set goes 8mm to 19mm and my plan was to skip 1/4 drive entirely. And have a streamlined set of 1/2" drive deep impacts for just the sizes I need.

People told me I'm crazy, I need 1/4" drive. If I wanted to be minimalistic about it, how can I pare down to reduce overlap?

By choosing the tools that are correct for your application.

I think the reason for 1/4" drive is either for sizes smaller than 3/8" drive comes in or for tight places where 3/8" drive can't fit. And that's it, right?

No.

If that's true, then I dont think I need 1/4" deep in any sizes that I have 3/8 deep. Because if I can fit a deep socket on it, I can fit a 3/8 deep socket right?

No.

So then for 1/4" drive, I just need deep from the smallest up to 7mm since 3/8" drive starts at 8. And I would get shallow 1/4" all the way up to 15mm in case my 3/8 are too big?

No.

I have Koken Zeal sockets, can I get away with those instead of 1/4" drive shallow?

Sure, why not.

They start at 8mm so I could do 3/8" drive in all of Zeal Low Profile, Shallow, and Deep?

Sure, why not.

I think I still need shallow even if I have Zeal due to lower engagement the Zeal might not get enough torque on tight fasteners?

Ok.

Or can I do Zeal + Deep in 3/8 and skip shallow?

Sure, why not.

I also have 1/4" drive SO universals in all sizes up to 15mm. I could get 3/8" drive universals but I've read if I can fit a 3/8 universal then I can fit a universal adapter + shallow 3/8 socket. The reason why SO 1/4" universals are so highly liked is because of low profile nature for tight spaces.

There's the question of what size do I start at?

At the size that is right for your application.

I dont think my car has anything less than 8mm even in the dash, but to make the kit more universal I could start lower. 5mm? 4mm? My "home base" 1/4" drive sockets go down to 3mm but I dont think I'm going to run across anything that small on cars. What is the smallest I actually need for a small kit?

The size that is right for your application.

These are the types of sockets that are options, and I have most of them, so I'm not even buying more stuff. Just figuring out what to pack in this kit:

• 1/4 Shallow
• 1/4 Deep
• 1/4 Universal Shallow - SO
• 3/8 Zeal Super Shallow
• 3/8 Shallow
• 3/8 Deep
• 3/8 Universal Shallow Chrome - SO
• 3/8 Universal "Ball" Impact - Astro

From those options, how do you design a set with the least overlap from X up to 19mm (which is where my 1/2" drive takes over)?

By selecting the sizes that are right for my application.

And what is the starting point if you are working on cars?

Are you changing out a clutch or the rear end on your SAE/Metric bolt swap project car, rebuilding your motor on the side of the road?

Think about what you're going to do, then select the sizes that are right for your application. Your choices will be different than others.

 

[Kkmk]

since 3/8" drive starts at 8.

Nah. Sets might, but you can buy individuals smaller, and bigger. My tool bag has 7mm up to 24mm, these are the sizes I encounter in our factory. I only carry 3/8 in my bag, but have a modest range of 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 in my tool box in our workshop. Fitter and Turner in an industrial plant.

What situations have you found where you NEED a 1/4 drive socket instead of a 3/8, or NEED a 1/2 instead of a 1/4?

 

[oldschoolcraft]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, I'm still unclear on why someone "needs" 1/4" deep sockets in sizes that you already have 3/8" deep sockets. It's my understanding that for overlapped sizes, you would only use 1/4" instead of 3/8" if there's access issues and the 3/8" shallow won't fit.

But for 1/4" deep, you're trying to get a nut that's deep on a threaded bolt. Shouldn't there enough clearance for 3/8" deep in that case?

 

[dchawk81]

I was going to look and see where the overlap is in my "mechanics tool set" but I don't feel like putting that much effort into this thread. 3/8 tops out at 19mm though I think. So 1/4 stops somewhere less than that.

I don't overthink my tools, I just use them.

 

[M635_Guy]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, I'm still unclear on why someone "needs" 1/4" deep sockets in sizes that you already have 3/8" deep sockets. It's my understanding that for overlapped sizes, you would only use 1/4" instead of 3/8" if there's access issues and the 3/8" shallow won't fit.

But for 1/4" deep, you're trying to get a nut that's deep on a threaded bolt. Shouldn't there enough clearance for 3/8" deep in that case?

Sometimes it's what ratchet you have at hand. Sometimes it's about distance/clearance. Sometimes it's about the how much reach you need (or don't). Sometimes it's just about preference.

As I said somewhere above, I've survived a hell of a lot of wrenching with only 3/8" deep chrome and 1/2" deep in my impact set. My wrenching universe is eight or so cars, so I'm sure there's situations outside that where I might not have the right thing, and it's even possible that it's already in my garage and I just haven't hit it yet.

As I also said somewhere above, you're overthinking it. And that comes from a Master Overthinker.

I was going to look and see where the overlap is in my "mechanics tool set" but I don't feel like putting that much effort into this thread. 3/8 tops out at 19mm though I think.

No...

I have SK 1/4" at at least 17mm, and pretty sure they and others have made larger 1/4" and 3/8" sockets well beyond 19mm.

But I have the "odd" sizes for exactly what I said above - sometimes I want to use the ratchet that's in my hand and I don't want to go get a different one. Or because my power ratchet is 3/8" and I'm using it to run things on/off.

Everyone works differently and on different things. That's why so many different variations exist.

 

[dchawk81]

Sometimes it's what ratchet you have at hand. Sometimes it's about distance. Sometimes it's just about preference.

As I said somewhere above, I've survived a hell of a lot of wrenching with only 3/8" deep chrome and 1/2" deep in my impact set. My wrenching universe is eight or so cars, so I'm sure there's situations outside that where I might not have the right thing, and it's even possible that it's already in my garage and I just haven't hit it yet.

As I also said somewhere above, you're overthinking it. And that comes from a Master Overthinker.



No...

I have SK 1/4" at at least 17mm, and pretty sure they and others have made larger 1/4" and 3/8" sockets well beyond 19mm.

But I have the "odd" sizes for exactly what I said above - sometimes I want to use the ratchet that's in my hand and I don't want to go get a different one. Or because my power ratchet is 3/8" and I'm using it to run things on/off.

Everyone works differently and on different things. That's why so many different variations exist.

I was obviously talking about MY set.

 

[f121]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, I'm still unclear on why someone "needs" 1/4" deep sockets in sizes that you already have 3/8" deep sockets. It's my understanding that for overlapped sizes, you would only use 1/4" instead of 3/8" if there's access issues and the 3/8" shallow won't fit.

10mm and 13mm are the obvious ones to have in 1/4 and 3/8. Usually you want to use a 1/4, but quite often you want the increased torque of a 3/8. This is where ratchet selection comes in.

Of course you can cope with just 3/8 in a lot of cases, but it’s much nicer to use 1/4 if it will do the job.

 

[cherrybomb]

My minimalist kit uses intermediates 6-11mm in 1/4 inch and 10-19mm in 3/8 drive.I can do with out the deeps after the intermediates became much more available.