1/4 drive epiphany....

[buffalobill]

i have started to really use my 1/4 drive stuff a lot, after having a few bad experiences recently, snapping off bolts using my 3/8 stuff. I figure that it will keep me from putting too much torque on something, as the tools are too small to put a large amount of torque on. I have really become fond of using them for another reason, and that is lack of weight. I don't have air tools, so, the lighter i can make something when i am spinning it all afternoon, the better. I always sort of ignored this drive size, and it mainly collected dust in my drawer for it.

Right now, i have an SK standard length ratchet, and i just picked up an indexable head proto with a hard plastic handle, and a full set of Matco extensions.I have always had a hodge podge of Craftsman/Cresents on rails, and a set of SK mid deep sockets, along with a SO set of standard sae. I would like to get a LONG pattern ratchet though, something as long or longer than a standard 3/8 ratchet. Any suggestions? preferably something made here?

Has anyone else tried switching to 1/4 drive for general work(header bolts, intake, water pump, diff covers,etc) , because of the weight savings? What are the realistic torque limits for 1/4 drive, with high quality sockets and drive tools?

 

[dieselmike]

why dont you just get a wright 3430, or just use your regular tools and take it easy?

 

[buffalobill]

well, ive already got a compact ratchet, i have an SK 45173, and its great! i have a pretty decent 3/8 collection, and it is always an option. But, its still not as convenient as having smaller tools, once you attach an extension over 6 inches. I'm just really looking at something for weight savings and convenience, as my blazer has a body lift, and i end up "belly surfing" on the radiator support for long amounts of time, as its the only way to work around the top end of the engine.

you ever tried one of those Matco 1/4 drive long ratchets? either the hardhandled or plain chrome?

 

[xurusaibobx]

snap on 80tooth flex head long ratchet with soft grip handle

 

[billymade]

The 1/4" williams flex head, is a affordable option as well....

JH Williams Tools 1/4" Dr. Chrome Finish Flex Head Ratchet M-52EHFA

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=3xsVT6XPFamqiQLs1vnYDQ&ved=0CEwQ8wIwAQ

 

[ajchien]

Less motion is required swinging the 1/4 handle to make a turn. Quicker than 3/8 or 1/2 if you don't need the leverage.

 

[pipsters]

I had mine as well. Used to hate using a 3/8" air ratchet. Now use a "quiet" 1/4" air ratchet. Break the bolt with the air ratchet then zip it off.

 

[Fedwrench]

Alot of it depends on what you work on. I probably use my 1/4 drive stuff more now than ever before. Changes in engine construction with lots more plastic and aluminum equals lower torque specs. I really like my Gearwrench comfort grip flex head ratchet. Thin head, fine 60 tooth action, extra length.

 

[Danglerb]

I start with a 1/4 drive for almost anything, then move up as required.

I have a tiny Microtouch ratchet I like a lot, but lately I grab my HF swivel head stubby for the spinner action. I think Snapon also makes one that should work as well.

 

[OUTRIGGER]

The Stahlwille A15 or A15QR (quick release version) green & black plastic handle is a comfortble tool to use & very strong ratchet - probably the best European manufactured.

 

[buffalobill]

yeah, i am definetly diggin this stuff, its so convenient! plus, i'm not exactly a small guy, so when i break out anything that's 3/8's anymore, anything under a 5/8 bolt seems to be fair game to snap, and then i get to figure out how to pull out a broken bolt or stud. So out comes the smaller quarter drive stuff. it would just be nice to have a longer 1/4 drive ratchet, so i can just swap ratchets, instead of going and grabbing another drive size.

so, has anyone snapped any 1/4 drive stuff? how much weaker is it than 3/8's? it seems like it would be ok for intakes, exhaust (unless its rusty), and valve and diff covers. anyone ever pull a rusty water pump, or break loose head bolts with it, and have it live?

 

[shampoop]

I have a standard SO 1/4" and a HF composite curved neck 1/4" drive.

The SO is so short it's very annoying to use when loosening anything over 10mm. The HF is significantly longer so it's what I use for fasteners between 10mm and 14mm. However, the SO is the perfect length for tightening anything with a 1/4" drive. It's very easy to get a perfect feel for how much force to use when tightening. It's hard to explain but unless it's something threaded into plastic, you basically never have to worry about over tightening or under tightening a fastener.

 

[sberry]

If a guy breaks bolts on a regular basis then there is something wrong.

 

[pipsters]

yeah, i am definetly diggin this stuff, its so convenient! plus, i'm not exactly a small guy, so when i break out anything that's 3/8's anymore, anything under a 5/8 bolt seems to be fair game to snap, and then i get to figure out how to pull out a broken bolt or stud. So out comes the smaller quarter drive stuff. it would just be nice to have a longer 1/4 drive ratchet, so i can just swap ratchets, instead of going and grabbing another drive size.

so, has anyone snapped any 1/4 drive stuff? how much weaker is it than 3/8's? it seems like it would be ok for intakes, exhaust (unless its rusty), and valve and diff covers. anyone ever pull a rusty water pump, or break loose head bolts with it, and have it live?

If you are snapping bolts with a 3/8" removing them, you will break them using 1/4". The end result, the torque required, is exactly the same regardless of the drive size. Just requires more effort (less leverage) with 1/4".

I thought you were talking about installing stuff. That I could see. But not removing.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

If a guy breaks bolts on a regular basis then there is something wrong.

rust belt ?

 

[thedeatons]

If Wright could put a 3/8 drive head in a 1/4 ratchet, then I assume they could do the opposite. Grab a used Wright 3/8 drive ratchet and install a 1/4 ratchet rebuild kit... See if it works and post pics!

James

 

[e30bradley]

I love 1/4 inch drive. and the maximum torque is probably like 25ft lbs

 

[Al Bundy]

I'm just really looking at something for weight savings and convenience, as my blazer has a body lift, and i end up "belly surfing" on the radiator support for long amounts of time, as its the only way to work around the top end of the engine.

yeah, i am definetly diggin this stuff, its so convenient! plus, i'm not exactly a small guy, so when i break out anything that's 3/8's anymore, anything under a 5/8 bolt seems to be fair game to snap, and then i get to figure out how to pull out a broken bolt or stud.

So you're so powerful you can't help but snap off bolts, but your 3/8 ratchet is too heavy for you?

 

[ToolSnobsSuck]

So you're so powerful you can't help but snap off bolts, but your 3/8 ratchet is too heavy for you?

 

[Jim85IROC]

I've always grabbed my 3/8 99% of the time, mainly because of the convenience of my flex head ratchet. I finally broke down and bought a Gearwrench 1/4" flex head (I wish I knew about that Williams at the time!!), and since then I've been using 1/4" a lot more often. I have the convenience of the flex head ratchet for quick removal, and the lighter weight of the 1/4" hardware.

 

[Black89LX]

head bolts with a 1/4" drive ratchet....

If the impact cant move them out comes the 1/2" drive breaker bar. I doubt you are strong enough to remove anything torqued over 25 ft/lb with a little 1/4" drive ratchet. A water pump? dont even bother, just use your 3/8" ratchet or breaker bar if you need to.

If you are consistently breaking bolts, then you arent learning anything. you dont have to give it everything you've got to make sure its tight. now that you are using smaller tools, you might be the one getting hurt when they give way. (busted knuckles)

upon removal, your best friend can be Mr. Blue Wrench. Soak those rusted bolts in some penetrating lubricant. Dont make more work for yourself, work smart, not hard.

Invest in a dependable torque wrench and you can save those bolts when installing.

edit: I have a Snap-on THLF72 and an FHLF80.. with the extra length, its just like the next drive size up

 

[znowaczyk]

If a guy breaks bolts on a regular basis then there is something wrong.

over torqued for sure...

rust belt ?

I live and work in the rust belt...don't seem to have that problem...

 

[shampoop]

I love 1/4 inch drive. and the maximum torque is probably like 25ft lbs

This thread made me realize how awesome it would be to get one of these.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...group_ID=21944&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[Robbie UK]

Must admit that I am a recent covert to the 1/4" drive. Like many I found the 3/8ths drive was my go-to set for car work but having done whole lot of small engine stuff this year I now find myself using the smaller drive on cars.

Roto-ratchets have also helped this move and my current choice is the Wera Zyklops (not perfect as I don't like the slack in the socket lock-up but brilliant in other regards) and I find myself reaching into small places on modern cars with the small ratchet alone doing jobs that I had done with 3/8 or 1/2 drive with extensions.

Modern alloys, abundance of plastic, low torque fasteners and near zero access is forcing me to change previous habits. Stuff that always required 1/2 drive on air, such as exhaust brackets, now gets wizzed away with a 3/8 drive cordless impact. Now I am thinking about it the only place I tend to use regular 1/2 drive now is on suspension components.

Times are a changing, as are cars, tools and mechanics.

 

[superautobacs]

I love working with 1/4" drive ratchets. Like OP mentioned, it's user friendly as it's light in weight and doesn't tire your fingers/hand/arm as much as handling a 1/2" or 3/8" drive ratchet. It helps from over-torqueing fasteners too....unless you're using a long handled 1/4" ratchet.
Cinch the fastener with the 1/4" drive ratchet and torque it up to spec with a torque wrench.


Here's a break test that was performed on a number of compact 3/8" drive ratchets (1/4" body and mechanism):

As you can see, the traditional pear-head styled ratchets with the single floating pawl/"batman" pawl didn't hold up as well as a Facom-styled round-head ratchets. That said, look at the numbers:

The gear broke at 1000lb-in or 85lb-ft for the pear-heads; 2250lb-in or 188lb-ft for the Facom; 2800lb-in or 238lb-ft for the Deen.

I'm sure the break test results would've been different if they were tested on actual 1/4" drive squares. Nonetheless, those are some shockingly high numbers.

 

[Robbie UK]

Those are remarkably high numbers indeed.

My brain/elbow works in Nm and whilst I am not the biggest guy in the world I don't think I could get anywhere near 250Nm+ of torque on a little 1/4" drive - makes some of those tested look pretty much indestructible.

Who did the testing?

 

[machine_punk]

I don't use ratchets much, but after reading this forum, I've gained a lot more respect for the 1/4" ratchet. Generally now, I see if I have the right socket in for the 1/4" ratchet first and grab my 1/4" Harbor Freight composite ratchet.

Thanks for the insight. Great use of the word 'epiphany.'

 

[superautobacs]

Conducted in an independent facility somewhere in Japan.
The author is a tool enthusiast who owns multiple tool shops around Japan, selling the most well known, Japanese, US, European, and Taiwanese/Chinese tool brands.

 

[ajchien]

Conducted in an independent facility somewhere in Japan.
The author is a tool enthusiast who owns multiple tool shops around Japan, selling the most well known, Japanese, US, European, and Taiwanese/Chinese tool brands.

Any links? would love to see more.

 

[Krokodil]

I also prefer to use 1/4" first, at least on anything up to 13mm.

 

[Kev442]

It will be interesting to see if the 1/4" HF composite has any staying power. I've only used 1/4 under 10mm as all my non pro ratchets (Cman, etc) don't last worth a sh*t under reasonable use even then.

 

[lauver]

I have an old school beam style 1/4" drive torque wrench that is rated up to 120 in/lbs (or 10ft/lbs). That's about the maximum you want to tighten typical small fasteners in todays applications.

Some of the long handle 1/4" drive tools like the Williams ratchet posted above will easily allow you to exceed the recommended torque for small fasteners. Just thought you should know there is a reason why most 1/4" drive ratchets and breaker bars have short handles (4-1/2" plus/minus).

 

[buffalobill]

If a guy breaks bolts on a regular basis then there is something wrong.

on 30 year old stuff in the rust belt?

 

[Jim85IROC]

I have an old school beam style 1/4" drive torque wrench that is rated up to 120 in/lbs (or 10ft/lbs). That's about the maximum you want to tighten typical small fasteners in todays applications.

That depends entirely on the size of the fastener. My 1/4" set goes up to 13mm, which can certainly withstand far more than 10ft/lbs. Many of the fasteners on the LS motor that I'm building were 10mm, and were tightened to the 18-ft/lb range.

 

[buffalobill]

If you are snapping bolts with a 3/8" removing them, you will break them using 1/4". The end result, the torque required, is exactly the same regardless of the drive size. Just requires more effort (less leverage) with 1/4".

I thought you were talking about installing stuff. That I could see. But not removing.

mmmmm, i am talking about installing, thats where i have snapped nuts and bolts tightening them with a 3/8 ratchet. and then i get to pull whatever i just installed back apart again, possibly ruining gaskets, wasting time, and replace fasteners after i get the remains of a broken stud out.

 

[buffalobill]

So you're so powerful you can't help but snap off bolts, but your 3/8 ratchet is too heavy for you?

quote the whole post *******, i explained why its a pain in the ***. when i am balancing on the radiator support by my belly, AND NOTHING ELSE, the more convenient the better.

just cuz you got a chip on your shoulder because we got into it on another thread doesn't mean i'm going to listen to your ******* driveby's on other threads.....

 

[buffalobill]

It will be interesting to see if the 1/4" HF composite has any staying power. I've only used 1/4 under 10mm as all my non pro ratchets (Cman, etc) don't last worth a sh*t under reasonable use even then.

this is what i used to think of 1/4 stuff,especially the craftsman RP ratchet, i bought some higher quality stuff, and its great! feels much better, like my knuckles won't fly into something painful.

 

[buffalobill]

I have an old school beam style 1/4" drive torque wrench that is rated up to 120 in/lbs (or 10ft/lbs). That's about the maximum you want to tighten typical small fasteners in todays applications.

Some of the long handle 1/4" drive tools like the Williams ratchet posted above will easily allow you to exceed the recommended torque for small fasteners. Just thought you should know there is a reason why most 1/4" drive ratchets and breaker bars have short handles (4-1/2" plus/minus).

but that williams ratchet should let you use 1/4 drive stuff throughout a job, instead of swapping drive sizes. use the long ratchet to break everything loose, and use the smaller ratchet to zip it down without overtorquing.

 

[MattT]

I love 1/4 inch drive. and the maximum torque is probably like 25ft lbs

That used to be the cut off for 1/4" drive back in the day. I've got an older Snap on TM1 3/8" > 1/4" adaptor that's stamped 25 ft lb max. Snap on now rate a similar adaptor at 37.5 ft lb.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...=11424&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all

Brand new 1/4" drive ratchet mechanisms may well have 80 ft lb plus breaking points but they don't stay that way. You start pulling hard on long 1/4" rats regularly and they're gonna start skipping.

 

[sberry]

Bill, there is nothing wrong with getting some lighter tools and if it makes it more convenient and productive I am all for it but its no real substitute for figuring out how to tighten a bolt without breaking it. As for removal, in the rust belt especially,,, it would take too long if we snap many rusty bolts, its a rare day I break a bolt off not intentionally. Its part of the skill set, to get it apart without breakage.
I did have another question because its eluded to,, is this Blazer the main thing you are working on?