1/4 drive - Koken vs Snap On.

[2ndGearRubber]

Looking to upgrade my 1/4 drive sockets, deep and shallow. I have a blue-point set I bought roughly 10 years ago, have warrantied a few pieces, I think the fit could be better even when we're talking new sockets. Not sure if I've been unlucky but I've had a rash of rough condition 10 and 8mm fasteners lately and been struggling a bit with grip in 1/4 drive. My primary choices are Koken and Snap On.


Snap On runs about $580 plus tax, 5-15mm + 5.5.

Koken runs about $140 plus tax, 4-14mm + 5.5. However, I am cheap and like free/combined shipping, and will likely buy a 1/4 metric hex socket set for an additional $45 plus tax. I am counting this as an addition to the koken socket price, because I said "next time I buy koken I'm buying these bits".


So with either set, either the top or bottom of the 1/4 drive range will be topped-off with the blue point set. My experience with 1/4 drive koken has been pretty good, although they don't like the impact driver very much. Because these will pair with a set of semi-deep koken, that means most 1/4 drive sockets will be exposed to impact driver use. The snap-on definitely seem to hold up better on the little M12 hex driver, although I wouldn't say they're used often on it. I will also admit, I "neutral drop" my cordless ratchets, spinning them up to full speed then dropping them onto a fastener for additional torque/speed of removal. So I'm rough on tools.


My thought is buy the Koken, then replace with snap on as they wear out. IIRC the snap on sockets are 0.2mm shorter in shallow, 0.8mm longer in deep, so not the end of the world. With snap on, it's the easy button, done and done. But I'm cringing a bit at the price. I'm sure the blue-point would be worth something traded-in to snap on, maybe $50 bucks. Not a lot to sway the deal.

I have some Koken 3/8 shallows, not super impressed with how they're wearing. But the 1/4 zeal sockets have done me very well, as have the nut grip sockets. I use these for work, so I want something among the best of the best. Proto has been too chunky/tall in my previous experence in 3/8. I suppose I could buy just a few high-use sizes from either brand as well. Thoughts?

 

[M635_Guy]

I'd be happy to sell you my 1/4" Sunex master impact socket set at a good price. I bought it thinking I'd need it and might have used it once or twice. I found it clearing out part of my garage.

Are you getting the Z-series or regular Ko-kens?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I'd be happy to sell you my 1/4" Sunex master impact socket set at a good price. I bought it thinking I'd need it and might have used it once or twice. I found it clearing out part of my garage.

Are you getting the Z-series or regular Ko-kens?

Sunex fitment has never impressed me all that much. I'm looking for chrome. I haven't been able to convince myself I need 1/4 drive metric impact sockets, other than universals as IMO they serve a different function than chrome universals as they work much better on powered ratchets.

Z-series deep would work BUT they omit 9mm, which means I have nothing to hammer onto rotten 10mm fasteners. I roll around with the z-series shallow on the car, so the Koken sockets in question would be the "standard" series sockets.

EDIT:

Cart setup is: 1/4 drive Deep/semi-deep/shallow 4-15, z-series shallow, nutgrip/wera version mixed set, shallow snap on FDX, gear wrench impact universals 5-15, snap on chrome universals (6 main sizes)

 

[drtyler]

Of the two, I would probably choose Koken due to cost savings.

But I would also consider Williams USA, assuming they are still available. I would assume they are dimensionally very close to the Snap-on sockets, so shallows a bit shorter and deeps a bit longer.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Of the two, I would probably choose Koken due to cost savings.

But I would also consider Williams USA, assuming they are still available. I would assume they are dimensionally very close to the Snap-on sockets, so shallows a bit shorter and deeps a bit longer.

Good idea, forgot about Williams USA. I'll price them out too.

EDIT: 4-14mm, deep and shallow ~$170 + tax.

 

[Snapped-off]

My Williams USA sockets are visually identical to my snapon sockets. Not similar, identical. (Ok, less the knurling on the metrics) I can't speak for the metallurgy.

I'd hit the easy button and go with Snap on because of your usage. I'd be bothered with a rail of Koken with a few snappys upgraded in eventually.

 

[richfinn]

Looking to upgrade my 1/4 drive sockets, deep and shallow. I have a blue-point set I bought roughly 10 years ago, have warrantied a few pieces, I think the fit could be better even when we're talking new sockets. Not sure if I've been unlucky but I've had a rash of rough condition 10 and 8mm fasteners lately and been struggling a bit with grip in 1/4 drive. My primary choices are Koken and Snap On.


Snap On runs about $580 plus tax, 5-15mm + 5.5.

Koken runs about $140 plus tax, 4-14mm + 5.5. However, I am cheap and like free/combined shipping, and will likely buy a 1/4 metric hex socket set for an additional $45 plus tax. I am counting this as an addition to the koken socket price, because I said "next time I buy koken I'm buying these bits".


So with either set, either the top or bottom of the 1/4 drive range will be topped-off with the blue point set. My experience with 1/4 drive koken has been pretty good, although they don't like the impact driver very much. Because these will pair with a set of semi-deep koken, that means most 1/4 drive sockets will be exposed to impact driver use. The snap-on definitely seem to hold up better on the little M12 hex driver, although I wouldn't say they're used often on it. I will also admit, I "neutral drop" my cordless ratchets, spinning them up to full speed then dropping them onto a fastener for additional torque/speed of removal. So I'm rough on tools.


My thought is buy the Koken, then replace with snap on as they wear out. IIRC the snap on sockets are 0.2mm shorter in shallow, 0.8mm longer in deep, so not the end of the world. With snap on, it's the easy button, done and done. But I'm cringing a bit at the price. I'm sure the blue-point would be worth something traded-in to snap on, maybe $50 bucks. Not a lot to sway the deal.

I have some Koken 3/8 shallows, not super impressed with how they're wearing. But the 1/4 zeal sockets have done me very well, as have the nut grip sockets. I use these for work, so I want something among the best of the best. Proto has been too chunky/tall in my previous experence in 3/8. I suppose I could buy just a few high-use sizes from either brand as well. Thoughts?

I've had a set of chrome Snap-On 1/4 drive shallows forever (they have been excellent), and a set of the 1/4 Ko-ken nut grips/few semi deeps in critical sizes

I do have a set of shallow 1/4 impacts in Trident brand (I used them a fair bit when I was in the workshop with air tools)

I would just buy Ko-ken Z series to be honest, if you destroy a socket you can replace individually

buy the individual sizes of 1/4 impact socket 8/10/12/13/14mm and see if they are for you.

Snap-On has priced me out of the market in the past 10 years, if I buy any it's from ebay ($580 is insane BTW )

It's rare I buy full sets of anything nowadays, I like to build bespoke socket rails with exactly what I need/use all the time

 

[Doubled33]

Can’t compare to Koken but I have had the 1/4” snap on set you are looking at for about 25 years With a 4mm added to it.

I used them daily for about 8 years and use them monthly these days.

good fit and long Lasting.

I would buy them again…. But I admit almost 600 bucks is nuts.

 

[Wamsutta]

+1 For Williams. Snap-on quality without the truck price.

 

[f121]

I "neutral drop" my cordless ratchets, spinning them up to full speed then dropping them onto a fastener for additional torque/speed of removal. So I'm rough on tools.

That’s nasty! Do you have a good relationship with your snap on guy? If not, they may not warranty chrome that’s been used on an impact/battery ratchet.

The SO 1/4” sockets are nice to use, the shallow are a touch shallower than most which improves access, and somehow they just feel ‘better’ than my bluepoint and others…but there’s no way I could justify $580 on them. I think I paid about $60/rail from eBay/marketplace.

 

[demarpaint]

Another vote for Williams and if you shop around you can get a good deal on them. Williams 1/4" Drive Shallow Sometimes Zoro with a coupon is cheaper, shop around. IIRC Amazon has them in deep too, but the picture is showing SAE and the listing Metric, so I didn't post a link. Good luck!

 

[American Locomotive]

Are the Williams stuff still US made? The last Williams tools I bought a few years ago were Taiwanese.

I will saw, I don't think any 1/4" socket will really deal with constant hard impact driver use very well. I've seen more than a few 3/8" and 1/2" Snap On sockets pretty mushroomed from impact use.

 

[lardy1]

Hazet?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Are the Williams stuff still US made? The last Williams tools I bought a few years ago were Taiwanese.

I will saw, I don't think any 1/4" socket will really deal with constant hard impact driver use very well. I've seen more than a few 3/8" and 1/2" Snap On sockets pretty mushroomed from impact use.

Williams is Taiwan and USA, depending on part number.

This is a little M12 hex driver with a 1/4 drive adapter, it loses to M6x1 fasteners sometimes since it's just a toy. 2553-20 is the part number. I keep it on setting 2 since that's about perfect for installing fender liner stuff, etc. It's just a toy, I haven't seen any wear on my bluepoint sockets from doing it for years. Gearwrench and koken showed a little more. Now I have a 10/8mm flip socket for most of that use. But dissembling interior screws, pulling coil packs, it's not out of the question.

That’s nasty! Do you have a good relationship with your snap on guy? If not, they may not warranty chrome that’s been used on an impact/battery ratchet.

The SO 1/4” sockets are nice to use, the shallow are a touch shallower than most which improves access, and somehow they just feel ‘better’ than my bluepoint and others…but there’s no way I could justify $580 on them. I think I paid about $60/rail from eBay/marketplace.

I haven't had any wear issues, so I couldn't say. Dealer says I'm super low warranty compared to most. Not sure I understand how that is, but I don't really destroy volumes of stuff the way some apparently do. My number 1 warranty sockets are 1/2 drive impacts, mostly swivels, due to wear on the fastener interfacing end to the point they don't fit properly. I was always told chrome is fine for air-ratchets, regular not impacting, so I don't see why they would have an issue. Perhaps the proliferation of the "neutral drop" technique has changed that standard.

I do wallow out chrome sockets in 3/8 drive, drive and business ends. Mostly it's from yanking/jerking the drive tool while fighting something free. Kind of like an impact, but me with an 18" ratchet and only 3-4 "impacts" per minute. Get a good grip, give it a hard/swift pull, and it's free. Not the most gentle, but it works. Sort of looks like impact damage after a while, but without the drive end deformation inwards.

Most of that $580 price, is replacing my lifetime of worn out 10mm sockets under warranty, IMO.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Starting to lean towards Williams USA, as any worn out could be replaced with snap on singles which would -mostly- match.

 

[mreisner]

Wright makes a great set also. You can find the Snap-on ones cheaper from some of the guys on the internet . I have bought a couple of sets that way here that I can't justify over 500 bucks for quarter inch sockets. Be careful to not get the flank Drive extra, they are great but only for certain circumstances. Other things they can be too tight. I have a set of Proto 3/8 sockets that I've been very happy with also.

 

[tamaraw]

If you like Snap-on, maybe consider the CAT branded set for a fraction of the price?

 

[nicks78camaro]

What is the warranty process for CAT/Williams USA?

 

[Black300zx]

I will also admit, I "neutral drop" my cordless ratchets,

I have nothing to add to your actual question, but I just wanted to thank you for giving me a good morning chuckle. Never heard that term used for anything besides automatic Civic DXs

 

[Steve_P]

I have a lot of the Williams USA chrome sockets I bought 10+ years ago, including 1/4" drive. I don't use them on impact, but they still look great. The issue that I have with the Williams is that the size printing on the socket is tiny, and it blends in with the PN and is hard to see. For me, this isn't the end of the world since I store them on a labeled Ernst rail, but it's definitely less than ideal. Still, with the Snap On at $580, that's just insane. Have you looked for new, or like new, sets on Ebay? I've bought a few new SO ratchets on Ebay at ~40% off the new price; but even paying 60% of $580 is a lot for 1/4 drive sockets.

Most of that $580 price, is replacing my lifetime of worn out 10mm sockets under warranty, IMO.

Yep. I'd either go Williams or Koken, then replace the 8, 10, 12 mm.... that get the most wear with Snap On when that time comes. I haven't priced Williams sockets lately, but they were almost a bargain for USA tools when I bought mine. My last few Williams orders came from Abolox.

 

[Steve_P]

What is the warranty process for CAT/Williams USA?

Williams warranty is the typical defects in materials and workmanship; not normal wear and tear. If you want normal wear and tear replacement you buy Snap On at 3X? the cost.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

What is the warranty process for CAT/Williams USA?

For Williams, to my knowledge, manufacturers defects. So if you wreck them or wear them out, that's on you.

 

[Steve_P]

Are the Williams stuff still US made? The last Williams tools I bought a few years ago were Taiwanese.

Taiwan Williams will have a PN like 90210
USA will be something like AB-1234

If you look in the catalog, anything USA has the made in USA marked in that section

 

[dnschmidt]

Homey, Milwaukee makes a relatively cheap set of metric 1/4" drive impact sockets that will prevent you from screwing up your chromes. I've got the deep version of these and use them with my Milwaukee 1/4" M12 impact wrench. NO ISSUES and Milwaukee has an iron clad lifetime guarantee. Might want to consider this route rather than beating yourself up over this chrome dilemma.

 

[Buckgnarly]

One of my fellow auto instructors has Williams 1/4 sockets for the carts his animals use. The industrial SO rep got him them to save money for his program, might have something to do with the 60k he dropped on the SO scan tool training cart he bought....or the 12k on the DVM cart.....other than those sockets, he has LOTS of SO stuff. He has had no problems with them for about 3 years.

 

[American Locomotive]

Wright makes a great set also. You can find the Snap-on ones cheaper from some of the guys on the internet . I have bought a couple of sets that way here that I can't justify over 500 bucks for quarter inch sockets. Be careful to not get the flank Drive extra, they are great but only for certain circumstances. Other things they can be too tight. I have a set of Proto 3/8 sockets that I've been very happy with also.

I would like to add that maybe it would be a good idea to look at Wright. If their sockets are anything like my wrenches, they are awesome tools.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I have a nice set of 1/4" metrics / shallow and deep / 4-16mm (?!?) / NOS / tried to take photos but I don't have good enough light right now. will try to get them posted later. BK

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Homey, Milwaukee makes a relatively cheap set of metric 1/4" drive impact sockets that will prevent you from screwing up your chromes. I've got the deep version of these and use them with my Milwaukee 1/4" M12 impact wrench. NO ISSUES and Milwaukee has an iron clad lifetime guarantee. Might want to consider this route rather than beating yourself up over this chrome dilemma.

I really don't have room for more sets of sockets in this cart. Really the chromes see use on the impact driver maybe 1 time per week or less, usually 4 M6x1 coil pack bolts. Even that is probably a liberal estimate now that I have the 8/10 flip socket.

I know this is unpopular - I want to buy 1st world. I know, I know, I have many fine Taiwanese tools. But I want the best of the best, and I think that comes from the Japanese and US manufacturers. I make enough to be able to pay a bit more to support those still making high quality tools here in the USA, Japan, Europe.

I would like to add that maybe it would be a good idea to look at Wright. If their sockets are anything like my wrenches, they are awesome tools.

Wright appears to have the same ~22mm shallow height and ~51mm deep height that williams, snap on, and koken all share. This makes my life a lot easier as those numbers are quite similar to the length of my current blue-point sockets. I will investigate Wright as well.

It appears the main Wright 1/4 metric sets omit 5.5 and 14mm, both of which I use. I can deal with 4/4.5/15mm not matching, but I use the 5.5 and especially the 14mm. That softens my interest, although they make very excellent impact sockets and wrenches.

 

[designer485]

I really don't have room for more sets of sockets in this cart. Really the chromes see use on the impact driver maybe 1 time per week or less, usually 4 M6x1 coil pack bolts. Even that is probably a liberal estimate now that I have the 8/10 flip socket.

I know this is unpopular - I want to buy 1st world. I know, I know, I have many fine Taiwanese tools. But I want the best of the best, and I think that comes from the Japanese and US manufacturers. I make enough to be able to pay a bit more to support those still making high quality tools here in the USA, Japan, Europe.




Wright appears to have the same ~22mm shallow height and ~51mm deep height that williams, snap on, and koken all share. This makes my life a lot easier as those numbers are quite similar to the length of my current blue-point sockets. I will investigate Wright as well.

It appears the main Wright 1/4 metric sets omit 5.5 and 14mm, both of which I use. I can deal with 4/4.5/15mm not matching, but I use the 5.5 and especially the 14mm. That softens my interest, although they make very excellent impact sockets and wrenches.

Wright Set 221 has both 5.5mm and 14mm included.

https://www.zoro.com/wright-tool-14...g7H1e8l23gmkhoudw6oaAqwDEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

On price alone Williams USA is the answer. Same socket as the Snappys at a 1/4 of the price. Functionally the same too as both share the same design with the shallow shoulder inside. Good luck trying to get the sets in a reasonable time though. They are chronically out of stock. If you can live without the shallow shoulder/broach then I’d recommend Koken. Exquisite sockets with the same design as the Williams and Snappys. The deeps are getting spendy but still not unreasonable. Another plus is they offer a bunch of off-sizes and other features beyond what you’ll find in the US brands.

The Wrights are too pricey for me and they are exactly the same as the Protos (which I have and love). If I held the two sockets together, you’d not be able to tell the difference. I know cause I owned both brands.

If you just want shallows, you could look at Hazet and Stahlwille. They are excellent sockets, but taller than my US and Koken sockets. I just picked up a Stahlwille socket/ratchet set on special and holy **** those ratchets and sockets are sweet.

I have had or still own all these brands of sockets.

 

[Etchase]

Facom

 

[TBEVO]

On price alone Williams USA is the answer. Same socket as the Snappys at a 1/4 of the price. Functionally the same too as both share the same design with the shallow shoulder inside. Good luck trying to get the sets in a reasonable time though. They are chronically out of stock. If you can live without the shallow shoulder/broach then I’d recommend Koken. Exquisite sockets with the same design as the Williams and Snappys. The deeps are getting spendy but still not unreasonable. Another plus is they offer a bunch of off-sizes and other features beyond what you’ll find in the US brands.

The Wrights are too pricey for me and they are exactly the same as the Protos (which I have and love). If I held the two sockets together, you’d not be able to tell the difference. I know cause I owned both brands.

If you just want shallows, you could look at Hazet and Stahlwille. They are excellent sockets, but taller than my US and Koken sockets. I just picked up a Stahlwille socket/ratchet set on special and holy **** those ratchets and sockets are sweet.

I have had or still own all these brands of sockets.

Do you recommend the standard koken sockets or the zeal sets?

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Do you recommend the standard koken sockets or the zeal sets?

Standard. I have the Zeal in 1/4” and they are much shorter which is great and all but for 90% of my tasks the standards work. Plus, and I know this came up in another thread, but some of the square drives on some of my 1/4” ratchets come slightly through the cut-out of the Zeal sockets making an already short space shorter. Personally, I consider the Zeal sockets more of a niche/special use tool much like my swivels and 12pt sets.

 

[shibertus]

I will also admit, I "neutral drop" my cordless ratchets, spinning them up to full speed then dropping them onto a fastener for additional torque/speed of removal. So I'm rough on tools.

Wow, not sure any chrome socket is designed to hold up to that sort of use. Koken does make a specialty impact socket called "pathfinder." They have a beveled lead-in that helps guide the socket on to the fastener while it is still spinning.

 

[Steve_P]

Do you recommend the standard koken sockets or the zeal sets?

Both! This is GJ LOL. Ok, the shorty Zeals are REALLY short as said. I have them in 1/4 and 3/8 and use them when necessary, which is rarely. So, I treat them as a specialty socket, as said. I don't have any "standard" Koken sockets, as I had plenty by the time I discovered Koken here, but if I wanted to buy sockets today, I'd for sure buy the shorty Zeals if I ever planned on working on a transverse engine vehicle, and then a set of typical short sockets in whatever brand. And of course you also need mid-length.....

 

[charbar]

Can't really say I've had too many issues with my Snap Ons over the years...some worn out or split 5.5, 7 and 8 mm ones but pretty good over all. Never owned anything Koken so I can't compare. 580 bucks for 1/4" sockets sounds ridiculous though. Maybe mine cost the equivalent with inflation when I bought them...no idea since that was 15-20 years ago. I think you use 1/4" stuff a lot more than I do though so it might make more sense for you to 'buy once, cry once'

How easy is it to warranty the Kokens? If warranty is going to be a pain and they don't hold up well on the impact driver than I see no reason to waste money on them if you are just going to replace them with the Snappys eventually.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Can't really say I've had too many issues with my Snap Ons over the years...some worn out or split 5.5, 7 and 8 mm ones but pretty good over all. Never owned anything Koken so I can't compare. 580 bucks for 1/4" sockets sounds ridiculous though. Maybe mine cost the equivalent with inflation when I bought them...no idea since that was 15-20 years ago. I think you use 1/4" stuff a lot more than I do though so it might make more sense for you to 'buy once, cry once'

How easy is it to warranty the Kokens? If warranty is going to be a pain and they don't hold up well on the impact driver than I see no reason to waste money on them if you are just going to replace them with the Snappys eventually.

Bureau of labor statistics inflation calculator says you paid about 350, in 2003, for $580 worth of sockets in 2023.

In my experience, koken has no warranty. I wouldn't expect any warranty from Williams either. They don't cover stuff simply worn out from use like the tool trucks do.

 

[IRQVET]

Tekton would get my vote, not one of your options listed, but should not be overlooked in this segment IMHO.

 

[nicks78camaro]

Or Icon (gasp)

 

[Wrench97]

Snap On, bought my deep and shallow set in the 80's , the 8, 10, 12 have been replaced over the years along with 2 extensions, I bought the mid-depth in the late 90's 8 & 10 have been replaced and the 5.5 since it ran away from home...............................