1/4" sockets with or without detents

[dwasifar]

I had a 1/4" deep socket fall off an extension into the engine bay the other day, which led me to try to find out why. So I spent a little while plugging the extension into different sockets, and the socket into different extensions, looking for where the slop was. And I found something strange about my 1/4" sockets. Take a look at this picture:



The two deep wells in the back row are from metric (HF) and SAE (USA Cman) sets respectively. Note the HF socket has a detent notch, and the Craftsman does not. None of my Craftsman 1/4" SAE deep wells have the detent, and all of the Pittsburgh do. I've had the Craftsman for probably 25 years and never noticed this.

The row in the front are USA Craftsman metric, bought as a set (I'm pretty sure) at the same time as the others, and they vary. 10mm, 9mm, and 5.5mm have a detent; the others do not. The ones that have a detent don't match the rest of the set; they have light knurling around the base. The 10mm also has what looks like a stamping defect, although it has never affected function.

Why do you suppose Craftsman would make sockets without ball detents? Or a mixed set where some have them and some don't?

 

[Dave455]

I had a 1/4" deep socket fall off an extension into the engine bay the other day, which led me to try to find out why. So I spent a little while plugging the extension into different sockets, and the socket into different extensions, looking for where the slop was. And I found something strange about my 1/4" sockets. Take a look at this picture:



The two deep wells in the back row are from metric (HF) and SAE (USA Cman) sets respectively. Note the HF socket has a detent notch, and the Craftsman does not. None of my Craftsman 1/4" SAE deep wells have the detent, and all of the Pittsburgh do. I've had the Craftsman for probably 25 years and never noticed this.

The row in the front are USA Craftsman metric, bought as a set (I'm pretty sure) at the same time as the others, and they vary. 10mm, 9mm, and 5.5mm have a detent; the others do not. The ones that have a detent don't match the rest of the set; they have light knurling around the base. The 10mm also has what looks like a stamping defect, although it has never affected function.

Why do you suppose Craftsman would make sockets without ball detents? Or a mixed set where some have them and some don't?

Leaving out the detents is just another way to save money.

It’s surprisingly common on lower cost 1/4” drive sockets, although to me it’s totally unacceptable!

 

[dwasifar]

in my basement workshop I have a little Taiwan Kobalt socket set, for workbench use, that includes 1/4" metric sockets 4mm to 11mm. They have the detent. I swapped them into my garage toolbox to help avoid more engine bay mishaps, and put the pictured Craftsman in with the Kobalt set. Bothers my OCD, but the detent sockets are better for garage work.

 

[ecotec]

Leaving out the detents is just another way to save money.

It’s surprisingly common on lower cost 1/4” drive sockets, although to me it’s totally unacceptable!

I agree that it was a cost saving measure on a price point tool. Craftsman has, historically, filled this role. They have been, with a LOT of exceptions, a lot of tools for a cheap price… and pretty consistently on sale. They also had the easiest warranty of any brand.

People overlooked the little details because they were cheap, easy to warranty… and because you could hide in Sears while your wife shopped for whatever.

 

[dwasifar]

I agree that it was a cost saving measure on a price point tool. Craftsman has, historically, filled this role. They have been, with a LOT of exceptions, a lot of tools for a cheap price… and pretty consistently on sale. They also had the easiest warranty of any brand.

People overlooked the little details because they were cheap, easy to warranty… and because you could hide in Sears while your wife shopped for whatever.

I bought mine at a local Sears Hardware, when that was still a thing. I had just moved to the area and wanted to fill out my tool collection, so I went in there and spent many hundreds of dollars. Most of those tools are still serving me well today.

That store is now a Harbor Freight, ironically.

 

[Steve_P]

I can't remember if I have any 1/4 drive Craftsman sockets, but I know that all of my 3/8 drive have detents: they're about 15 years old.

It's interesting that only the ones with the "knurling" have the detents. Maybe the others missed a few steps in manufacturing.

 

[dwasifar]

I can't remember if I have any 1/4 drive Craftsman sockets, but I know that all of my 3/8 drive have detents: they're about 15 years old.

It's interesting that only the ones with the "knurling" have the detents. Maybe the others missed a few steps in manufacturing.

I'm guessing they were changing styles (or changing manufacturers) when this set was assembled, and I got some of the new style and some of the old. Which is which, is a matter for conjecture.

 

[Banjorear]

I have a set of US-made Craftsman 1/4" sockets in both standard and deep that I bought approx. 20 years ago that don't have the detents. Drove me crazy. I finally replaced them with SO about a year ago. Some day I use a Dremel and a ball carbide and put some in there. Unusable otherwise.

 

[dnschmidt]

As cheap as 1/4" drive socket sets are at HF who the hell cares? You can get all sockets in both SAE and metric in both shallow and deep for less than $40. Wait for the 25% off coupon and you can get the same for $30. Is this worth fretting over?

 

[American Locomotive]

As cheap as 1/4" drive socket sets are at HF who the hell cares? You can get all sockets in both SAE and metric in both shallow and deep for less than $40. Wait for the 25% off coupon and you can get the same for $30. Is this worth fretting over?

He's not asking what to do about it - he clearly stated he already solved the issue. He's asking why the sockets are the way they are. Is it cost cutting? Are they defective? Was there a certain year range that they didn't have detents? Maybe someone knows - it's fun to learn new bits of information and get answers to questions.

I'm curious, too. I rarely use my craftsman 1/4 sockets, and I've never noticed anything odd about them, but I'll definitely be checking them next time I use them. They're CM USA from about 2009 or so.

 

[milky2k]

I have some Great Neck and Duralast hex but sockets without detents as well. They're kinda nice for the price so I didn't want to get rid of them and will probably some day cut some detents in them. I also have some old Fleet 1/2 sockets that only have one detent, the other three sides are flat. Made me wonder why, I can only think it's for convenience if you swap out sockets all day long you don't struggle especially if you have a ratchet with hard ball detent like old Snap On but also have the option to hold on if you use the side with a detent. I too would be interested to hear the real reason for this. I'm not convinced it's all about cost cutting.

 

[dwasifar]

As cheap as 1/4" drive socket sets are at HF who the hell cares? You can get all sockets in both SAE and metric in both shallow and deep for less than $40. Wait for the 25% off coupon and you can get the same for $30. Is this worth fretting over?

Not fretting, just curious.

 

[Wamsutta]

Sometimes they don't put the detents in the correct locations. For that reason I don't buy Taiwan made sockets unless they're extremely cheap.

I bought a set of 1/4 inch drive Kobalt sockets from Lowes for $5. That's the only reason I put up with them.

 

[mrjaw14]

I had a cheap set of husky pro given to me by a family member. I didn’t realize they didn’t have detents until one fell off the ratchet while working on their mower in the yard. Took forever to find that darn black socket. Since then I’m cautious to only use detent sockets

 

[WWheeler]

My 1990s USA Craftsman and 2000s China Craftsman 1/4dr sockets definitely have detents.

I would call yours a defect and take it to lowes or call visit their support page to contact them via chat, form, or phone to report the defect and get them to replace them with new ones.

 

[Outahere]

My old (40 yr ?) set of 1/4" drive Craftsman deep sockets are also missing the detent wells. My old (35yr ?) metric 1/4"dr Snap-on standard length sockets have barely visible detent wells, and will not firmly attach to my locking extensions. A few of the Snap-on sockets, in the smallest sizes, have a single hole in the side, instead of a well. My new set of 1/4"dr Tekton sockets will firmly attach to my locking extensions.

 

[Etchase]

SK didn’t add detents until the late 50’s. And many brands only had one. I don’t even notice when they are missing. I was surprised.

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

How many years have all of you been using these sockets and never complained about detents till someone started talking about it? Now after years of service all your sockets are no good?????

 

[Jtels85]

My father has some V, VV and G series Craftsman 1/4” sockets that he accumulated new from Sears over the decades. I was surprised to learn that many of them do not have the detents in the drive-end. I don’t remember how I found that out, but it did trigger me.

My G2 USA sets that I bought from Sears before they shifted production to China all have double detents. The only abnormality is a 5/32” shallow socket that received no stamping whatsoever. It’s just a naked socket.

 

[whateg01]

Sometimes they don't put the detents in the correct locations. For that reason I don't buy Taiwan made sockets unless they're extremely cheap.

Yeah avoid Taiwan made sockets because of that but buy US made sockets that don't have a detent at all? Seems like silly reasoning.

 

[dnschmidt]

Taiwan, and by that in my personal case that means TOPTUL, makes better sockets than Craftsman ever did. Ask any of the many people on this board that bought them from me. I'm out of that business now but at least once a month people contact me asking for TOPTUL socket sets. TAIWAN is the toolbox of the world at this point in time. That's reality, see HF ICON if you need proof.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Out of curiosity, I checked.

All of my 1/4" sockets have detents that are correctly located - that includes Taiwanese tools - except:

Two sets of Japanese sockets that were bought 50+ years ago for use on small electrical equipment. At that time, there was only 1/2" or larger in the workshop. There is still a sprung ball that stops the socket from falling off, it just doesn't latch.

Some 1/2" sockets don't have a detent - they have a single hole as they all once did. Most of these are old but a few are new impact sockets.

Jack

 

[Steve_P]

Sometimes they don't put the detents in the correct locations. For that reason I don't buy Taiwan made sockets unless they're extremely cheap.

I bought a set of 1/4 inch drive Kobalt sockets from Lowes for $5. That's the only reason I put up with them.

Lemme guess. You're complaining about some cheap no name **** you bought at the flea market in 1988 and you're extending this to Taiwan in general today?

All of the major brand Taiwan sourced 1/4 drive sockets, like Vim, Tekton, Capri.... have proper detents.

 

[Wamsutta]

Lemme guess. You're complaining about some cheap no name **** you bought at the flea market in 1988 and you're extending this to Taiwan in general today?

All of the major brand Taiwan sourced 1/4 drive sockets, like Vim, Tekton, Capri.... have proper detents.

The detents are proper, but just in the wrong place. When the spring loaded friction ball is fully seated in the detent, you're not supposed to be able to move the socket. The socket is supposed to be locked onto the extension and be totally immovable. Taiwan sockets will move further up towards the extension momentarily if you press on them after the friction ball is seated.

 

[whateg01]

... Taiwan sockets will move further up towards the extension momentarily if you press on them after the friction ball is seated.

There's that broad brush again

 

[lund]

Hmm. I was curious and looked at my Craftsman sockets (most dating from 90s to early 2000s) and found that smaller socket sizes of the 1/4 drive did NOT have detents. Larger sizes (think above 10 mm) did for 1/4 drive and all 3/8 drive and 1/2 drive sockets had detents . I suspect this might have been done with the smaller sizes to cheapen production slightly. The small sizes might have limited weight where the ball spring friction can hold it. Or at least mostly so. In retrospect, I have noticed that 1/4 drives were more likely to slip off. This can be annoying since 1/4 drives are also used mostly on small stuff where you might reach in and do not want small sockets falling off (say into a car dash). I did not notice this in part since I also have a 1/4 drive Snap-on set that I use more frequently for automotive stuff and they ALL have detents.

Oh well. I guess this is just an example of how Sears Craftsman stuff could be all over the place in terms of production quality depending on the suppliers. Mostly this is a mostly needed feature even for 1/4 drive. Essential for anything larger. Ironically, other than the detent neglect, the sockets seem to be good quality and the chrome has held up well for many years with modest use.

 

[Wamsutta]

There's that broad brush again

After you pop the socket onto the extension with the spring loaded friction ball fully seated into the detent, press the socket against your other hand or some kind of hard surface to see if the socket moves. Taiwan sockets will move further up on the extension and then spring back down. I've seen that happen with Kobalt, Gearwrench, and Pittsburg sockets. I'd be curious to know if Toptul sockets do that but I don't have any.

 

[cherrybomb]

A good wake up call to check what ever socket you have before you possibly put yourself in a compromising situation

 

[Jack Ryan]

After you pop the socket onto the extension with the spring loaded friction ball fully seated into the detent, press the socket against your other hand or some kind of hard surface to see if the socket moves. Taiwan sockets will move further up on the extension and then spring back down. I've seen that happen with Kobalt, Gearwrench, and Pittsburg sockets. I'd be curious to know if Toptul sockets do that but I don't have any.

Which standard specifies that dimension?

It does not appear to be ISO 2725-1 Assembly tools for screws and nuts — Square drive sockets — Part 1: Hand-operated sockets

It doesn't appear to be DIN 3124 Hand-operated socket wrenches, square drive for hexagon screws either, as that is equivalent to the ISO standard

Thanks
Jack

 

[Wamsutta]

Which standard specifies that dimension?

It does not appear to be ISO 2725-1 Assembly tools for screws and nuts — Square drive sockets — Part 1: Hand-operated sockets

It doesn't appear to be DIN 3124 Hand-operated socket wrenches, square drive for hexagon screws either, as that is equivalent to the ISO standard

Thanks
Jack

It might not have a standard. It's possible the manufacturers can place the detents where ever they want.

 

[dwasifar]

Because this investigation was prompted by a socket falling off an extension into the engine bay, I went looking around for alternatives and found these:



My metric set were Pittsburgh and my SAE were Craftsman. Comparing the Taiwan Dewalt metrics to the Pittsburgh set, the Dewalt are definitely beefier and hold on to an extension tighter. Not much difference in how they fit on fasteners.

Obviously the Dewalt SAE sockets grab the extension tighter as well, seeing as the Craftsman have no detents.

I feel it was $21 well spent. My only complaint is that there is no 7/32 in the Dewalt set, and I need that regularly, so maybe I'll try to add detents to the old one.

 

[Jack Ryan]

It might not have a standard. It's possible the manufacturers can place the detents where ever they want.

So none are wrong and possibly give clearance for manufacturing tolerances. Not everyone uses the same manufacturer's ratchets, breakers, extensions and sockets.

Jack

 

[john.k]

Old time sockets had a single drilled hole to engage the ball retainer ..........so if you wanted sticktion ,you needed to align the features....The ball groove is an extra forming operation not possible to include in a broached square or a pressure formed socket.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Old time sockets had a single drilled hole to engage the ball retainer ..........so if you wanted sticktion ,you needed to align the features....The ball groove is an extra forming operation not possible to include in a broached square or a pressure formed socket.

The single hole is still common, especially on impact sockets.

These are an example: https://www.dewalt.com/product/dwmt74738/23-piece-38-drive-impact-socket-set

Jack

 

[Wamsutta]

So none are wrong and possibly give clearance for manufacturing tolerances. Not everyone uses the same manufacturer's ratchets, breakers, extensions and sockets.

Jack

All my extensions are Snap-on with the exception of three Gearwrench extensions. The Snap-on extensions fit good with the Snap-on, MAC, and Proto sockets, but not so much with the Gearwrench sockets. The Gearwrench extensions I have don't fit good with the Snap-on sockets.

All you have to do is hold the extension with the socket on it in one hand and then use that hand to press the socket into the palm of your opposite hand. Does the socket spring fore and aft along the longitudinal axis of the extension? If so, you have mismatched extensions and sockets.

And another thing: I have two Craftsman spin handles with the same part number. One is USA made and the other is Chinese made. The USA made Craftsman spin handle will fit my MAC 1/4 drive socket perfectly, but the Chinese version spin handle fits the same MAC socket very loosely. I bought the Chinese spin handle as an experiment to confirm my suspicions of Chinese made Craftsman drive tools and my suspicions were correct.

 

[Jack Ryan]

All my extensions are Snap-on with the exception of three Gearwrench extensions. The Snap-on extensions fit good with the Snap-on, MAC, and Proto sockets, but not so much with the Gearwrench sockets. The Gearwrench extensions I have don't fit good with the Snap-on sockets.

All you have to do is hold the extension with the socket on it in one hand and then use that hand to press the socket into the palm of your opposite hand. Does the socket spring fore and aft along the longitudinal axis of the extension? If so, you have mismatched extensions and sockets.

And another thing: I have two Craftsman spin handles with the same part number. One is USA made and the other is Chinese made. The USA made Craftsman spin handle will fit my MAC 1/4 drive socket perfectly, but the Chinese version spin handle fits the same MAC socket very loosely. I bought the Chinese spin handle as an experiment to confirm my suspicions of Chinese made Craftsman drive tools and my suspicions were correct.

Still, this is according to your opinion. There is nothing wrong with those I have, they comply with the standards and function properly.

That they are not exactly the same as your favorites is beside the point.

Jack

 

[whateg01]

... Taiwan sockets will move further up on the extension and then spring back down. ...

... Comparing the Taiwan Dewalt metrics to the Pittsburgh set, the Dewalt are definitely beefier and hold on to an extension tighter. Not much difference in how they fit on fasteners...

Why would you go and buy stickers made in Taiwan? It's been established that sockets made in Taiwan are junk and can't possibly be better than others because they all have improper detents!

 

[dwasifar]

I would rather have a detent placed a little too shallowly than a little too deep.

 

[Chipm]

I have several sets of Craftsman and Taiwan sockets without detents. I am afraid to use them in the engine bay, but I also hate to get rid of them. So, they just take up space.

 

[FigN⋅m]

Well, all my early 2000's Craftsmans have TWO sets of detents. USA! USA!