1” Square Drive VS #5 Spline Drive Impact

[jblnut]

Hello all !! I’m planning to buy into a much larger impact than I currently have and debating between a 1” square drive or a #5 spline drive air impact.

The primary reason for the tool will be to service tillage equipment on the farm as well as anything else that I can use it for that my current 1/2” battery impact isn’t cutting it for. Currently I use a 48” pipe wrench with a 10’ cheater pipe to tighten and loosen the nuts on the disc arbor bolts and it’s no fun when it slips and I end up airborne. Mathing it out I’m putting roughly 2500ft/lbs on that nut which is about right. I’d like to not have to be a gymnast to do stuff in the shop lol

I don’t want this to have anything to do with the financial differences as I’ve already decided to spend some money on something. I’ve found lots of spline drive stuff in the sizes I need for sale so availability doesn’t seem to be an issue either.

Anyone here have spline drive impacts/sockets ?

Air supply isn’t an issue. When this bad boy gets used I can fire up my 185cfm (edit: it’s an Atlas Crapco) monster if my current shop compressor can’t keep up. I don’t see sustained use but it may get some extended hammering time on a stubborn fastener.

 

[General Geoff]

As long as the sockets you need are available in #5 spline, that's the way to go. Much more robust and will last longer under very high torque impact loads.

 

[KnurledNut]

Have you tried a torque multiplier?
https://www.zoro.com/proto-torque-multiplier-3200-ft-lb-12x1-in-dr-j6232cert/i/G7474826/?gclid=075ff23faf0a1333bf6595d63cced1c2&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=075ff23faf0a1333bf6595d63cced1c2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ml_all_dyn_main_pmax_medium - ST skus - Tools & Machining - bing&utm_term=2334194466870244&utm_content=Tools & Machining

https://www.protorquetools.com/3-300-ft-lbs-1-dr-norbar-26-1-torque-multiplier-ht4-17021/?msclkid=b9f91b8d3c4b18ee1acb7c64af8fabf8&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping - Branded&utm_term=4577198192109195&utm_content=Desktop

 

[Wrench97]

We used them at work, fleets liked to buy 1" spline drive thinking it would eliminate pilferage plus they were suppose to wear less.
Use wise I didn't see a lot of difference, mostly used on lug nuts and spring u bolts.
For personal use I would and did buy square drive.

 

[jblnut]

As long as the sockets you need are available in #5 spline, that's the way to go. Much more robust and will last longer under very high torque impact loads.

I really only need a handful of sockets for a large impact. It seems the impacts that come with a #5 spline drive are also available in a 1-1/2” square drive. 1-1/2” square drive stuff doesn’t seem to be as easy to find.

My Wishek disc wants “At least 3,000ft/lbs” in the arbor bolts so something large needs to be driving that if it isn’t my fatass on a pipe

Have you tried a torque multiplier?
https://www.zoro.com/proto-torque-multiplier-3200-ft-lb-12x1-in-dr-j6232cert/i/G7474826/?gclid=075ff23faf0a1333bf6595d63cced1c2&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=075ff23faf0a1333bf6595d63cced1c2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ml_all_dyn_main_pmax_medium - ST skus - Tools & Machining - bing&utm_term=2334194466870244&utm_content=Tools & Machining

https://www.protorquetools.com/3-300-ft-lbs-1-dr-norbar-26-1-torque-multiplier-ht4-17021/?msclkid=b9f91b8d3c4b18ee1acb7c64af8fabf8&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping - Branded&utm_term=4577198192109195&utm_content=Desktop

I have but only on lug nuts and bolts. Not sure how I’d keep it stationary on a disc gang where everything is smooth and there really isn’t a place for the helper hand/bar to lean against.

We used them at work, fleets liked to buy 1" spline drive thinking it would eliminate pilferage plus they were suppose to wear less.
Use wise I didn't see a lot of difference, mostly used on lug nuts and spring u bolts.
For personal use I would and did buy square drive.

I think I may still invest in a nice set of 1” drive stuff for manual work but needing to go to 3,000ft/lbs or more makes me question using a 1” breaker bar with my fatass on the end of a 12’ pipe. Seems like I’d be asking for trouble. I currently use a 48” pipe wrench because I haven’t been able to destroy one doing it yet. I snapped the drive square off two different 3/4” breaker bars in the past trying to tighten disc gangs properly. The pipe wrench chews up the nuts quickly and with 12 at $35/ea on both discs that gets spendy in a hurry.

 

[bigfunwmu]

Yeah, you're well past 3/4" drive, and at the max on-paper for 1" drive stuff. You definitely need something bigger if the spec is for "at least" 3000 FTLB. Torque multipliers are handy, but the cheap ones are absolutely garbage. If it was me, I would find what size sockets I need for that disc and the other 2 or 3 big things around, and get an impact to match whatever drive size is easier. Sounds like you did that, and the spline drive is the way to go.

On a related note, Rigid 48" pipe wrenches bend the handle before they break the jaw, so that's nice for safety.

Also related, instead of pulling down on the cheater pipe go around the other side and lift the end of the wrench with a jack instead. Less backflips and x-games stunts but a little bit more fiddly getting everything connected. This is how the handles bend....

 

[mike93lx]

Curious, do you know of a model that will do what you need? Looking around a bit, it appears that most are rated for 2k and under

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

At 3000 lbs. you’re in the big boy league. Need a tool truck brand or a good industrial supply. I would go with square drive because the selection is much larger and a little more generic

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

Also at 3K level your in 1 1/2” drive territory

 

[jblnut]

Yeah, you're well past 3/4" drive, and at the max on-paper for 1" drive stuff. You definitely need something bigger if the spec is for "at least" 3000 FTLB. Torque multipliers are handy, but the cheap ones are absolutely garbage. If it was me, I would find what size sockets I need for that disc and the other 2 or 3 big things around, and get an impact to match whatever drive size is easier. Sounds like you did that, and the spline drive is the way to go.

On a related note, Rigid 48" pipe wrenches bend the handle before they break the jaw, so that's nice for safety.

Also related, instead of pulling down on the cheater pipe go around the other side and lift the end of the wrench with a jack instead. Less backflips and x-games stunts but a little bit more fiddly getting everything connected. This is how the handles bend....

I can’t seem to find the picture but the last time we changed blades on the Wishek disc I chained the mini excavator to the pipe wrench and lifted up when loosening and tightening the gangs. I built a chain holder out of some oil well pipe that slid over the handle with a d-ring. I think I put the ring 3’ from the jaws and bolted it on so it wouldn’t come flying off. That’s “at least 3,000ft/lbs”

I ordered a couple spline sockets last night and a 1” Female to spline male adapter. For starters I’m going to make a giant breaker bar so I can use it to do the final tighten and loosen cycles. I have to do some more digging into exactly which impact to get. When spending $4-6k on a tool I want to make sure to get something that’ll do what I want.

Curious, do you know of a model that will do what you need? Looking around a bit, it appears that most are rated for 2k and under

Been eyeballing this beast ….. ATP1555EI-5S

At 3000 lbs. you’re in the big boy league. Need a tool truck brand or a good industrial supply. I would go with square drive because the selection is much larger and a little more generic

I haven’t found a single thing in that 3k plus range that is from a brand I recognize which means I’ve entered a whole new tool realm. It’s exciting !!

I have found quite a bit more #5 spline sockets and such than I have 1-1/2” square. Not sure if it’s just where I’m looking but I’m going to go spline drive. I have a half dozen Proto sockets on the way. The 3-1/2” one says it weighs 8lbs

Also at 3K level your in 1 1/2” drive territory

At least. I found a used 2-1/2” impact but don’t think I want to lug around a 95lb tool

 

[mike93lx]

Been eyeballing this beast ….. ATP1555EI-5S

HY-tech is what I was thinking. IR has a couple rated that high but they are $8k and designed for hazardous environments. The HY-tech is expensive, but at least it's 25% cheaper

Be a champ and send it over to Torque Test Channel for our viewing pleasure

 

[KnurledNut]

You’re gonna need some big air too.

Might also look into hydraulic impacts.

 

[mike93lx]

You’re gonna need some big air too.

Bigger than the 185cfm he already mentioned? Wow, that's wild

 

[jblnut]

HY-tech is what I was thinking. IR has a couple rated that high but they are $8k and designed for hazardous environments. The HY-tech is expensive, but at least it's 25% cheaper

Be a champ and send it over to Torque Test Channel for our viewing pleasure

Lots of “at least” stuff in this thread

You’re gonna need some big air too.

Might also look into hydraulic impacts.

If the ol’ JD powered Atlas Crapco doesn’t run it I don’t need it ran.

Bigger than the 185cfm he already mentioned? Wow, that's wild

That large Hy-Tech impact says it needs 90cfm. I should be able to run two of them. “Min 3/4” air hose” it says. I’ll be able to use the 1” stuff I have for my jackhammer. That’ll save a few dollars lol

 

[mike93lx]

I’ll be able to use the 1” stuff I have for my jackhammer. That’ll save a few dollars lol

Already saving money. Nice!

 

[jblnut]

Already saving money. Nice!

The way this is looking I’ll have 10% of the impact cost into my compressor. I paid $650 for it, two jack hammers and a mess of hoses and fittings 15yrs ago at a farm auction. It’s wicked handy for blowing machinery off at the end of the year. A 185cfm leaf blower running at 90psi really de-dusts stuff in a hurry

 

[65k10]

While I think that getting an impact for something like that is the way to go, I am curious if Wishek offers a specialty socket for the nut. The ezee-on disc my grandfather bought back in the 80's came with a socket to do that. It's just a big socket, but instead of a square drive end it has two holes drilled in it that you can stick a large bar through to turn it. I think the torque on that nut was around 3000 ft/lbs so apparently the socket design works for that. I ended up getting a 3-1/8" socket for my 1" ratchet so I could speed up removing or installing that nut and just used the factory socket for initial loosening or final tightening. However, if you are working on the disc often I can see wanting an impact. Changing bearings on discs ***** enough without fighting getting the gang shaft nuts on or off.

 

[Zewnten]

Or alternatively make a breaker bar for your disk. Weld the right size socket into a 2x4 steel tube probably as heavy walled as you can and as long as you want. Then weld lifting eyes in the middle for carrying and the end for tightening and loosening with the mini excavator.

Or buy the adjustable OTC wrench and throw a cheater pipe on it. I've had loads of force on one and it acts like it never happened.

OTC ADJUSTABLE WRENCH 36 Inch OWATONNA TOOL CO | eBay

OTC ADJUSTABLE WRENCH 36 Inch OWATONNA TOOL CO.

www.ebay.com

 

[jblnut]

Or alternatively make a breaker bar for your disk. Weld the right size socket into a 2x4 steel tube probably as heavy walled as you can and as long as you want. Then weld lifting eyes in the middle for carrying and the end for tightening and loosening with the mini excavator.

I am going to build a large breaker bar but am going to weld this 1” square to #5 spline adapter onto the end so I can put different sockets onto it. I plan to built it so just the splines are sticking out to keep it as lo-pro as possible. I may use a piece of 1”x4”x36” flat stock I have as the first part of the breaker bar. I’m trying to keep the whole works under 6” long/thick including the socket. It may or may not happen. The first socket will be here tomorrow.

 

[KnurledNut]

I’d be tempted to torch the old nuts off and put new ones on.
How many nuts can you buy with the $4-6k invested in this setup?
How often does this thing have to come apart?

 

[T444e]

Blasphemy, this is GJ, new tools is always the correct answer.

 

[jblnut]

I’d be tempted to torch the old nuts off and put new ones on.
How many nuts can you buy with the $4-6k invested in this setup?
How often does this thing have to come apart?

$540 in nuts in the finishing disc and $780 in nuts on the heavy tillage disc. $1,320 adds up rather quick. It’s not only about removing them, I want a better way to tighten them as well. Dancing on a pipe wrench until it finds 3,000ft/lbs takes a level of gymnastics that I’m slowly un-mastering. As I age I get less excited about doing things younger me thought were fine. Like jumping on a pipe wrench with a 10’ pipe on it.

This is the third time in 20yrs this disc has come totally apart to replace 100% of the blades but there are several gangs that come loose each year while using the disc so it requires constant servicing as things wear. The tillage disc comes apart more often as it gets the snot beat out of it with all our rocks and bearings like to go out. I’ll replace at least one bearing a season so things are coming apart and going back together regularly. That is a 3-1/2” nut on a 2” shaft.

Money is a tool that has the ability to buy other tools. I don’t plan to spend $6k on an impact just yet. I am going to build a large breaker bar so I can easily put the kind of leverage on it I need to so I can loosen/tighten large things with ease. Having to drag my compressor around to use that large impact isn’t all that attractive at this point.

“You can move the world with a long enough lever”.

Blasphemy, this is GJ, new tools is always the correct answer.

One day I’ll have an impact that can tighten to 3,000ft/lbs but it isn’t today. We’ll see how the breaker bar works. Maybe it’ll be next Thursday lol

 

[Zewnten]

I am going to build a large breaker bar but am going to weld this 1” square to #5 spline adapter onto the end so I can put different sockets onto it. I plan to built it so just the splines are sticking out to keep it as lo-pro as possible. I may use a piece of 1”x4”x36” flat stock I have as the first part of the breaker bar. I’m trying to keep the whole works under 6” long/thick including the socket. It may or may not happen. The first socket will be here tomorrow.

I'd think that would be plenty strong enough. Problem with your needs is 3000ft/lb is in the rad gun, hydraulic torque or big torque multipler arena. Beefy breaker bar is cheaper and easier for simple jobs.

 

[jubilee]

I have 6 or 7 one inch guns out in the shop. All are all are 30-40 years old.
Two are spline guns. They are like new. I didn’t like to use them and neither did the help.

 

[jblnut]

I have 6 or 7 one inch guns out in the shop. All are all are 30-40 years old.
Two are spline guns. They are like new. I didn’t like to use them and neither did the help.

I’ll store the spline guns here for you if you’re wanting the shelf space back

 

[scooby074]

Id say 1 or 1.5" sq. At 3000ftlb youre getting into Rad gun territory. Look for a used Rad gun, Cantorque or Hytorc. A lot of guys in HD are going to these systems theyre safer, quieter, lighter than large impacts or other means of removing bolts torqued to those levels.

 

[rancherbill]

My Wishek disc wants “At least 3,000ft/lbs” in the arbor bolts so something large needs to be driving that if it isn’t my fatass on a pipe




I have but only on lug nuts and bolts. Not sure how I’d keep it stationary on a disc gang where everything is smooth and there really isn’t a place for the helper hand/bar to lean against.

For an impact your going to have to GO BIG. Forward torque of 3000 is 4000+ reverse rating. Impacts are alway stronger reversing.

Just looking around your probably looking at big buck with Ingersoll Rand. Matco for example does not go that big.

For reasonable price a good torque multiplier is the way I think I would go. To stop it turning a simple pipe extender solves that problem.

 

[MJD1]

Use a 1" drive impact and get a slugging wrench to tighten and loosen.

 

[mike93lx]

Use a 1" drive impact and get a slugging wrench to tighten and loosen.

I'm only 40 and I'm too old to be hitting **** with a sledgehammer when I could pull a trigger to get it done

 

[jblnut]

A while last overdue but I’ve found a solution that works for now. I setup an 80gal air tank as a buffer tank of sorts so I don’t need go fire the big 185cfm beast only to have it die for 4hrs and be under load for 20min total. This tank (along with the other 180gal of storage permanently in the system) gives the cheap Vevor 1” impact enough snort to muster up around 2,000ft/lbs tightening. That’s good enough for the finishing disk. I built a giant breaker bar with a hole in the end for a clevis for the big Wishek.

Buffer tank and 3/4” hose setup I used on the smaller disk.


Not Wild about this anymore.


The bearing was stuck on. Dang it. The gas axe got it loose.


A little green crayon to keep corrosion down for next time.