10x21 Townhouse Garage Heating

[showtimextx]

I love reading this forum! Thanks for all the great input from people but I still have not 100% had my questions answered so I though I would post a topic. I hope nobody is offended, I have read and used the search features but not really find an exact answer.

Well as stated I have a 10x21 Single Attached Garage on my townhouse. I move in May 1, 2013! and just trying to plan things out. Let me just list out what I know/want so I can get the best help from everyone! Thanks!

1) Location: Calgary, Alberta = Cold winters + Very dry.
2) Insulated/drywall/sealed: I couldn't find any garage vent...isn't that a bylaw? Garage door not insulated and seals could use some replacement.
3) Services: One small lightbulb + a couple 120v outlets (brutal....)
4) Usage: Motorcycle Shop. I race motocross/Enduro and have 3 bikes that will be in the garage and be worked on constantly.

Tentative plan so far:
1) I need to tear down the current shelves and install new ones and paint the place.
2) I hope to eventually save enough to put in some SwissTrack open flooring to make the space nicer to work on.
3) I really need to do something about lighting but not too concerned on that going search some options.

Heating is my main concern. I do ride in the winter (with studs) so I will have to do maintenance then also.

Alternative 1)
Motomaster 240v Garage heater (http://goo.gl/cTrgQ)
Well this looks like the easiest of solutions. Run the 240v. Mount Thermostat. Mount on the ceiling done!
At 8.9cents/kWh (http://goo.gl/ST8P3) the garage heater calculator (http://goo.gl/ai26Z) says this will cost me $0.21 an hour.
Negative: turn it on when you need it. not the same effect as Radiant Heat


Alternative 2)
Vent Free Natural Gas heater (http://goo.gl/vZTk7)
This looks easy enough too. Getting Natural gas to the garage is not an issue. Since it is a townhouse I can't alter the outside of the place to put a huge exhaust for a Natural gas vented system.
Seems like there are a lot of negatives about this setup.
Positives in my view are that it will have radiant style heat so tools will be nice and warm.
1)People mention there is a lot of humiditiy, but in calgary is that really a bad thing?
2)Could I install a gas regulator to reduce the output?
3)Do you think there is enough leaks on a garage door to support this?
4)Will there be a smell because in a small space might not be good to work in.


Alternative 3)
Your Input!
Any ideas? Its a small garage? What would you do? Would love some advise, all my other garages have had zero heating and I just plug in a 120v space heater and sit right next to it and have half my body freeze while the other half is warm...haha

 

[showtimextx]

Well Alternative 2 is out....
Found out that Vent Free Gas Heaters are not legal in Calgary.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Well Alternative 2 is out....
Found out that Vent Free Gas Heaters are not legal in Calgary.

They're not a very good choice anyway, in my opinion - besides dumping the combustion gases inside the garage they can also generate a lot of moisture. For a small garage like yours, and since you have pretty low electric costs, an electric heater is a reasonable choice. Over the long run it may be more expensive to operate than gas, but purchase and installation costs are usually less. Plus, since you're not running it 24/7 it won't be that bad.

Make sure the insulation is good and add more if necessary, insulate the overhead door and put good weatherstrip on it. Since the garage is attached it will get some residual heat from the house which helps.

 

[dubber]

In that format you don't really have any choices beyond the Alternative 1, as you listed or a space heater as needed. Do you have high ceilings? I have a similar garage as yours and i know this wouldn't work for me mounted on the ceiling.

 

[showtimextx]

Dubber: Interesting why don't you think it would work for you a ceiling mount? They are very thin a friend has one, about 6-8"

 

[Kevin54]

My wife has a 20' x 20' building and uses the oil filled radiators. She can keep it at 70f when it is around zero f here. She has two, but uses one unless it gets real cold, then she will kick on the second one and have both on medium heat.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Calgary ? Uninsulated garage door ? I don't think you will ever be able to get it up to 15C when it is -10c and the wind is blowing. If you do, your front side will be roasting and you back side will be freezing.

At a minimum you need an insulated door and the best weatherstripping you can find. Maybe even a couple of door draft dodger along the floor.

Home about a vented gas wall heater ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

My wife has a 20' x 20' building and uses the oil filled radiators.

Those electric oil filled heaters give off a very comfortable, even heat. they take longer to warm up a cold room than forced air. 2 for sure, maybe more when it gets down to -10C !

 

[showtimextx]

Ok. Well many of my answers have been answered but it created new answers.

1) Forced air style Electric heater
2) Radiant Electric Heaters?

I like the idea of Radiant heat. our LRT system has them in waiting areas and they work really well. I imagine they would work the same as a Natural Gas Radiant Heater correct? or no?
**Lets pretend that I get the garage door insulated**

 

[showtimextx]

Also a question based on the my selections above.

1) The Mastercraft Forced Air Heater has the following specs.
5000W @ 240v with a 30A breaker, running at 21A as per tech support.

2) The Radiant Electric Heater I have found through Comfort Cove (been reading about them on this forum) have a bunch of options but if I put one on each side of the garage.
2x 1200W @ 240V running at 5A.... so that would be 2400W running at 10A.

So doesn't that mean i would use less electricity with the two Radiant Heaters? People talk about how you have to run them all the time so that they work well but if I have them on either side of the garage they should just give me instant heat when i turn them on....

thoughts?

PS: I really appreciate all the feedback!

 

[dubber]

Dubber: Interesting why don't you think it would work for you a ceiling mount? They are very thin a friend has one, about 6-8"

My garage, and all the other townhouse's in my area have low ceiling heights, the highest point is where the garage door opens which would hit the heater. The other areas based on the look of the unit although i haven't seen actual dimensions look to be at least half a foot in depth which would bring it lower then the top of my door threshold which would be way to low for comfort walking under it. There also needs to be some sort of a mounting plate which theoretically would lower it a bit as well, by an inch or so i'm assuming. It says it needs to be at least 8 feet from the floor.

But if you have a high ceiling and want to hard wire your heater in then this looks to be a good bet.

 

[showtimextx]

Dubber: complete side topic. How has your floor been working for dirt and gravel? We are in extremely different situations as I have Dirtbiker but I was looking at getting the flow through type floor do you lift it up and clean under it often? Or just vacuum it?

 

[dubber]

Dubber: complete side topic. How has your floor been working for dirt and gravel? We are in extremely different situations as I have Dirtbiker but I was looking at getting the flow through type floor do you lift it up and clean under it often? Or just vacuum it?

The tiles are easy to remove which is great, but i haven't needed to as of yet. I just upgraded my shop vac and it works fine pulling the debris through the tile. Then a quick mop of the surface and it looks new.

One of the funny benefits of having the tile floor is being able to walk out in the garage in socks. Love it haha.

 

[showtimextx]

One of the funny benefits of having the tile floor is being able to walk out in the garage in socks. Love it haha.

Honestly that is almost #1 reason I wanted it.
I typically try to always have my bike clean before bringing it home but then you wanna quickly run into the garage and get something and yet pain...
One more thing. I mean it is designed to let the water pass through but don't the edge pieces prevent the actually water to pass through out the door if it is slanted correctly? just a random though. pumped to get it. I'll put pictures up starting May1 when I move in. I'm going to steal a lot of your design..haha

 

[dubber]

Honestly that is almost #1 reason I wanted it.
I typically try to always have my bike clean before bringing it home but then you wanna quickly run into the garage and get something and yet pain...
One more thing. I mean it is designed to let the water pass through but don't the edge pieces prevent the actually water to pass through out the door if it is slanted correctly? just a random though. pumped to get it. I'll put pictures up starting May1 when I move in. I'm going to steal a lot of your design..haha

Socks for the win! haha.

Water flows easily underneath, you would need to see a pic of the bottom to realize as there isn't a perfect seal with the material and the floor.

And your welcome to use ideas I've done, glad to hear i could give you some inspiration, that's the beauty of this forum, tons of ideas floating around.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

"Found out that Vent Free Gas Heaters are not legal in Calgary" and probably saved your life.

 

[Kevin54]

"Found out that Vent Free Gas Heaters are not legal in Calgary" and probably saved your life.

I'm glad to see some places actually outlawing them for enclosed places. I had one in my garage, and although my garage is fairly good size at 28' x 36', when I walked into the garage I could smell it. When I went into the house, I could smell it on my clothes. Some may not smell them, but I maybe have a sensitive snout. When I pulled it off of my white walls in the garage to get rid of it, you could see some serious discoloration on the wall where it was hanging. I wouldn't recommend a ventless gas heater to anyone.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

We use them for temporary heat when replacing boilers here in Minneapolis, oxygen sensors operable and combustion air calculated. But now permanent living space or tight garage should be heated with a ventless anything.

 

[showtimextx]

Yeah the more I read about it the happier I am that I did my research, outdoor use ok...but indoor use doesn't even make sense anymore.

What are your thoughts on the Electric Radian heaters?
http://www.radiantsystemsinc.com/
They replied and said
"Thank you for your interest in our product. I would suggest using two of our C10524 heaters and a good digital thermostat for your application.
I do want to make sure that the windows and doors are good if not we will need to increase the size of the heaters."

 

[showtimextx]

Bump! nobody every use these Radian Heaters.

Dubber: So do you have a heater at all in your garage...I mean it gets a lot colder where you live then over here, you have that wonderful humid cold.

 

[showtimextx]

May 1, 2013
Move in complete!!

Well this is what I'm starting with.
No lights were working in the garage.
Outside key-code box code unknown - Need to figure out reset.

 

[firecracker]

Nice one hope you enjoy your new garage (and home)

 

[showtimextx]

Thanks for the kind words!
Time for me to buy some lights for the garage!

Now to start the Q&A.
1) based on the size of the garage and the fact that I will be typically working on motocross bikes in the centre of the shop. Should I

a) Two lengthwise sets of Fluorescent lights in order to capture both sides of bike.​

b) Two widthwise sets of Fluorescent lights.​

c) Mixture 1x length 1x width​

 

[ADKGarage]

What about the Hot Dawg vented gas heaters?

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Too big. An electric radiant heater and be done with it.

 

[showtimextx]

What about the Hot Dawg vented gas heaters?

I can't vent any gas as it would require a venting pipe outside which I can't do.

Too big. An electric radiant heater and be done with it.

You think I should get two of those radiant heaters? instead of that Mastercraft one I listed on post 03-28-2013?