110 and 220 outlets

[dmcintosh]

So I am working on the last few outlets for my garage. This wall will. My 'equipment' wall, where the drill press, bandsaw, grinder, etc. will be located. The plan is to use 12-3 to run two 20 amp circuits along this wall, essentially wiring every other outlet to one circuit and the rest to the other. My question is if, down the line, I decide I need a 220v outlet in that run, can I safely use the existing wiring (12-3) and two 20 amp breakers to power a 220 v outlet?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

All 120v garage outlets are required to be GFCI protected.

If you do as you plan using 12-3 and sharing the neutral, you will need to use a double pole 240v GFCI breaker which are $$$$

And you wouldnt use 2 20a breakers. You would use one double pole 20a breaker.

What do you plan on using the 240v 20a outlet for?

BTW nominal voltage is 120/240...

 

[ForceFed70]

You sure can. In my area, garage outlets don't need to be GFCI protected so I didn't need a special breaker. I did something similar, except added a bunch of 20A 240V outlets right from the beginning. Here's a thread with more info on what I did: http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355635

Instead of placing every 2nd box on a different phase, consider going "split receptacle" meaning the top outlet is 1 phase the bottom the other. Just like what they do in kitchens. Don't need a special receptacle, every one I've seen has a tie-bar that's ment to come out so you can do split.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You sure can. In my area, garage outlets don't need to be GFCI protected ...

You live in Canada. I'm not certain why your electrical standards do NOT require it. I can remember more that once being "poked" while standing on concrete holding a poorly insulated electric tool.

The flip side is, why are arc fault and tamper resistant outlets now in the NEC. Every person who grew up in a house since the 20 did not have those "features". I wonder what fraction of those people ever had an "incident" that would have been prevented. I do not know of 1 person.

 

[ForceFed70]

You live in Canada. I'm not certain why your electrical standards do NOT require it. I can remember more that once being "poked" while standing on concrete holding a poorly insulated electric tool.

Might be required now. Finished electrical 4 years ago.

GFCI won't prevent you from getting bitten by a bad cord. Tho It would trip and prevent electrocution (if path is to ground) if you don't drop the cord like the average Joe.

 

[sberry]

If you did this what would you use for 120V lines? This is not a good idea, if you think you will need it run another wire but,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what for?
There are places it makes sense to run mwbc but in common garages where its close its just another idea we read on the internet.

 

[D45]

All garage outlets are required to be GFCI protected.

Wrong

 

[pattenp]

Wrong

All 120V outlets in garage are to be GFCI protected per NEC.

 

[ard]

Wrong

Super helpful, eh?

 

[CJ7VFR]

All 120V outlets in garage are to be GFCI protected per NEC.

For my own knowledge, what version of the NEC has this in it for the first time?

Jim

 

[pattenp]

For my own knowledge, what version of the NEC has this in it for the first time?

Jim

I'm thinking 1978, but not totally sure.

 

[Norcal]

For my own knowledge, what version of the NEC has this in it for the first time?

Jim

I'll have to check, but garage requirements may have started in 1978, first GFCI requirements were in 1971.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wrong

The only thing wrong in my statement was i forgot to say 120v.

Or are you saying NO outlets in a garage require GFCI protection?

For my own knowledge, what version of the NEC has this in it for the first time?

Jim

I'm thinking 1978, but not totally sure.

I think NorCal knows

 

[mm08822]

For my own knowledge, what version of the NEC has this in it for the first time?

Jim

Its only for 15 and 20A 125v recepts. 125v,30A and 240v recepts excluded.

Found this........1978

View attachment GFCI_requirement_page2.pdf

 

[sberry]

I have a mobile home, made in mid 70's. 2 bathrooms, they gfci the first and wire the second wrong, they also used a gfci breaker of 15 for the kitchen as part of a general circuit.

 

[Falcon67]

IMHO I would wire the lead plug in both runs as GFCI with the rest on the load side - without regard to code requirements. I did the entire shop, 4 total runs, that way and I don't get any false trips using any of the power tools. That includes a lathe, welder, band saw, drill press, etc. I split the runs up in the two areas such that is one circuit run had to be down, another hot one would be close buy for support.

For the 240v units, I preferred to pull runs for those and use separate breakers, so if I need to service a piece of equipment I can deaden that circuit from the panel.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Thanks everyone for the dates on when the garage GFCI requirements showed up. I figured it was around that time, but I was not sure.

This would explain why the garage at my house, which I purchased in 2010, passed all the inspections that had to do with the garage. My house was built in 1955, and the previous owners had done updates along the way, and the garage was no exception.

I figure the last actual update to the garage was in the mid 1970's. I can tell by the older style brown receptacles and switches that are used in there. I have had to replace a few of them along the way due to the receptacles not being able to hold onto plugs because the bus bars inside were worn out, or switches that were broken.

My garage electrical is supplied via a subpanel in the garage with the wiring coming from the house. The houses main panel has a 60 amp double pole breaker for the garage. I don't do a ton of work out in the garage, so that size breaker is fine for me. The actual existing wire is sized large enough to go up to a 90 amp double pole breaker if I wanted to do that. I think the original owner had intended to do that, and ran the wire for it, but never actually got around to changing the breaker before they had to sell the house.

I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but here is another question. If all of the electrical wiring and other items in the garage are from the 1970's, and I want to add a circuit or two to the subpanel in the garage to provide more receptacles in more convenient locations, do I have to upgrade the entire garage to GFCI codes? Can I just add the new items so they match the way the existing receptacles are wired, as in just use regular receptacles and regular breakers? Or do I have to add GFCI to anything new that I add to the garage?
Jim

 

[Norcal]

If you replace receptacles, add anything then a upgrade to whatever code edition is in force is required, so yes, GFCI protection is required.

 

[dmcintosh]

Thanks for all of the helpful information. I will just leave the two 20 amp circuits for 120 and run a separate wire for the 240 if/when I need it.

 

[D45]

The only thing wrong in my statement was i forgot to say 120v.

Or are you saying NO outlets in a garage require GFCI protection?

Are you saying that all 23 outlets in my garage, combo of 15amp and 20amp, have to ALL be GFCI?

Even so, it wont happen. They do not hold up and are too expensive

 

[dscheidt]

Are you saying that all 23 outlets in my garage, combo of 15amp and 20amp, have to ALL be GFCI?

Even so, it wont happen. They do not hold up and are too expensive

Protected by GFCI. That can be done by a breaker, or by wiring a GFCI receptacle as the first device on the circuit. Other outlets are wired to the load side of the GFCI.

 

[CJ7VFR]

If you replace receptacles, add anything then a upgrade to whatever code edition is in force is required, so yes, GFCI protection is required.

Thanks.

I understand that anything new I add would then have to be GFCI protected, but does it also mean that if I add or replace just one receptacle, that I have to GFCI everything, including all the old existing receptacles?

Jim

 

[sberry]

No, you can replace but gfci is something I would tend to want.

 

[Norcal]

Are you saying that all 23 outlets in my garage, combo of 15amp and 20amp, have to ALL be GFCI?

Even so, it wont happen.

Omitting a basic safety device is a bad thing, they are cheap & work well.


They do not hold up and are too expensive

Don't go to Harbor Freight to buy them, use a good brand such as Hubbell, P&S, or Leviton, 40 years ago I would have agreed with you, they were expensive & were prone to failure, now they work well & are fairly cheap. If not going to wire it correct, & safely, the only common sense action is to not wire the building.