110V to 220V

[alex123]

Hello,

The place I currently live in does not have a 220V outlet and property management does not allow any modifications to the electrical in the unit. I am in need of a 220V welder, and 220V air compressor. I was searching the web and came across a 110v to 220V step up voltage regulator. This may sound like a stupid question, but will something like this work? I can't imagine the solution to my problem being so easy, so please tell me what I'm missing. I know there's gotta be more to it then simply attaching a step up regulator.

Thanks!

 

[alex123]

Hello,

The place I currently live in does not have a 220V outlet and property management does not allow any modifications to the electrical in the unit. I am in need of a 220V welder, and 220V air compressor. I was searching the web and came across a 110v to 220V step up voltage regulator. This may sound like a stupid question, but will something like this work? I can't imagine the solution to my problem being so easy, so please tell me what I'm missing. I know there's gotta be more to it then simply attaching a step up regulator.

Thanks!

Also wanted to share this video I came across on YouTube that briefly discusses this concept... only he uses it to power up a lathe motor. I'd be using this for a 60 gallon air compressor and a 220V welder.

 

[dutchgray]

It will work but not for what you want to do, when you double the voltage you also halve the amperage so if you plug into a 20A outlet you will only get 10A out maximum less a bit for the losses in the converter. Your listed uses are power hungry so I doubt they would run on it.

 

[MushCreek]

Your place doesn't have a dryer outlet or range outlet? I've used a dryer outlet with an extension cord of sorts.

 

[Terra Nova]

Like Dutchgray said, nothing is free, you’re limited by power (voltage * current) in that scenario. You’ll have the voltage but not the current necessary.

maybe consider a dual voltage welder that can run 110 for now and 220 in the future. Unless you’re running air sanders or HVLP guns 30 gallon 110v class compressors will suit most needs

 

[Jersey Drew]

You could run a generator.

 

[alex123]

It will work but not for what you want to do, when you double the voltage you also halve the amperage so if you plug into a 20A outlet you will only get 10A out maximum less a bit for the losses in the converter. Your listed uses are power hungry so I doubt they would run on it.

Dang! I knew it sounded too good to be true. Thanks for the heads up

 

[alex123]

Your place doesn't have a dryer outlet or range outlet? I've used a dryer outlet with an extension cord of sorts.

It does, but believe it or not, the washer dryer outlet is on the third floor! Running a wire to garage on the first floor... Would that even work? My prior unit had the washer dryer unit available right next to the garage... Would that have worked without any issues?

 

[alex123]

Like Dutchgray said, nothing is free, you’re limited by power (voltage * current) in that scenario. You’ll have the voltage but not the current necessary.

maybe consider a dual voltage welder that can run 110 for now and 220 in the future. Unless you’re running air sanders or HVLP guns 30 gallon 110v class compressors will suit most needs

Thank you for actually bring that up as I forgot to ask about such a setup in my initial post. If I do go with a dual voltage, what are my limitations with the 110V. In general, are the 220v units for heavy duty applications? I want to do automotive work, and basic welding at home. Stuff like building a go-kart, welding a nut to a broken stud to remove it, etc... Will 110v suffice for this? How thick can I weld (steel, aluminum) on 110V and what are my overall restrictions, please.

 

[alex123]

You could run a generator.

Thank you for the idea, and this is something I'll be happy to do. What kind of generator would I need? Obviously something that offers 240V, but in terms of amperage, wattage, etc.? Are there and drawbacks to this approach? and most importantly, will I get the same performance out of a generator as I would out of the wall?

 

[alex123]

Thank you for the idea, and this is something I'll be happy to do. What kind of generator would I need? Obviously something that offers 240V, but in terms of amperage, wattage, etc.? Are there and drawbacks to this approach? and most importantly, will I get the same performance out of a generator as I would out of the wall?

Further to my above message, If I were to purchase a generator... How would I know what specifications I need? For instance, let's use this welder as an example. How do I calculate a generator that will suffice, and leave some room for overhead so I'm not using it as max operation 100% of the time. I want to pick a generator that will be able to run a decent welder and a good size air compressor (not at the same time).

 

[GeoBruin]

Figure out how many amps your welder draws. This should be in the specifications for the welder. Let's say that number is 40 amps at 220 volts. Multiply those numbers together to get the number of Watts the welder will use. When shopping for a generator, find one that will deliver at least that number of Watts. Make sure that number is advertised as the generator's running wattage and not peak wattage.

In my experience welding is not something that consumes power constantly. You aren't going to be welding for minutes on end most of the time. So you may actually be able to get away with a generator that Peaks High Enough. However, as you said, it's probably better to get something slightly larger than you need so you're not running it as hard.

All that said, I think a dual voltage welder is probably the way to go. Based on your description of use cases, I think you'll be able to achieve quite a bit on a hundred and ten volts. I have a dual voltage Lincoln and sometimes I weld on 110 just so I don't have to drag my extension cord out to reach my 220. You'll get lots of opinions on what the maximum thickness you can weld on 110 is, and even more opinions on whether the quality of the weld is the same a similar gauge. My personal opinion is that I can't tell the difference when welding 1/8" mild Steel.

As far as running an extension cord from your third story washer outlet downstairs, that is certainly possible. You just need to make sure the gauge of the extension cord is high enough to prevent a voltage drop at the welder. There are calculators online that will allow you to calculate voltage drop for a given distance with a given wire gauge.

 

[alex123]

Figure out how many amps your welder draws. This should be in the specifications for the welder. Let's say that number is 40 amps at 220 volts. Multiply those numbers together to get the number of Watts the welder will use. When shopping for a generator, find one that will deliver at least that number of Watts. Make sure that number is advertised as the generator's running wattage and not peak wattage.

In my experience welding is not something that consumes power constantly. You aren't going to be welding for minutes on end most of the time. So you may actually be able to get away with a generator that Peaks High Enough. However, as you said, it's probably better to get something slightly larger than you need so you're not running it as hard.

All that said, I think a dual voltage welder is probably the way to go. Based on your description of use cases, I think you'll be able to achieve quite a bit on a hundred and ten volts. I have a dual voltage Lincoln and sometimes I weld on 110 just so I don't have to drag my extension cord out to reach my 220. You'll get lots of opinions on what the maximum thickness you can weld on 110 is, and even more opinions on whether the quality of the weld is the same a similar gauge. My personal opinion is that I can't tell the difference when welding 1/8" mild Steel.

As far as running an extension cord from your third story washer outlet downstairs, that is certainly possible. You just need to make sure the gauge of the extension cord is high enough to prevent a voltage drop at the welder. There are calculators online that will allow you to calculate voltage drop for a given distance with a given wire gauge.

I honestly can't tell based on the link I provided what the amperage is. It says 200amps... I can't imagine that being the required amperage at 220v.

 

[GeoBruin]

No, that's the DC current at a much lower voltage (output).

Perhaps see what size breaker the documentation recommends. That should be your extreme upper limit, but it will get you in the ball park. I'm guessing 40, though I know a lot of welding is done on 30 amp "washer/dryer" circuits.

 

[Gunfixr]

You certainly can run an extension cord to run your tools, as mentioned, it just needs to be of sufficient wire size. You may have to build it yourself.

As for dual 110/220, or even 110 welders, from your description, you should be able to find a machine that will do what you want. Currently, I only have a 30 amp capable extension cord run to my garage, so I have a dual voltage welder, and my plasma is 110, but can run either 15 or 20 amp circuit.
What happens is that the machine's capabilities are less on the lesser power input. The machine specs will say what this is. So, if still shopping for your machine, look at the specs.

As for the compressor, idk if there are dual voltage units. Your planned air needs will dictate whether a 110 unit will suffice. Again, go to the output specs, compare with your expected usages.

Always plan high, meaning always try to supply more than you're thinking you need.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thank you for actually bring that up as I forgot to ask about such a setup in my initial post. If I do go with a dual voltage, what are my limitations with the 110V. In general, are the 220v units for heavy duty applications? I want to do automotive work, and basic welding at home. Stuff like building a go-kart, welding a nut to a broken stud to remove it, etc... Will 110v suffice for this? How thick can I weld (steel, aluminum) on 110V and what are my overall restrictions, please.

Based on the HF welder you linked to in a following post if you look in the manual on page 7 it breaks it down, but the short version is using 120v/20A circuit you can do max of MIG / 140A, TIG / 125A and Stick / 80A vs 200A, 175A, 175A on a 240v/30A circuit.

I have a Miller of similar capacity to that Omni. I wanted a dual voltage machine so I could use it until I got around to putting in 240v. I now have 240v available, but since I am usually just welding small projects and only of around 1/8" thickness or less most of the time I still run it on 120v just because a 120v outlet is more convenient.

Based on the description of the projects you mentioned, I'd think you would be fine with 120v for most of that.

 

[Aaron_W]

I'll also add the modern inverter machines are not only smaller / lighter, but they generally also require a lot less power than the older transformer machines. Something like the classic 225A "tombstone" stick welders will require a 50A or even 60A circuit, but many of the invertor stick welders in the same class only require 40A and can probably get away with 30A.

 

[alex123]

Based on the HF welder you linked to in a following post if you look in the manual on page 7 it breaks it down, but the short version is using 120v/20A circuit you can do max of MIG / 140A, TIG / 125A and Stick / 80A vs 200A, 175A, 175A on a 240v/30A circuit.

I have a Miller of similar capacity to that Omni. I wanted a dual voltage machine so I could use it until I got around to putting in 240v. I now have 240v available, but since I am usually just welding small projects and only of around 1/8" thickness or less most of the time I still run it on 120v just because a 120v outlet is more convenient.

Based on the description of the projects you mentioned, I'd think you would be fine with 120v for most of that

I appreciate you sharing those numbers. I would like to have the option to weld up to 1/4" steel on Mig . I am currently not using TIG or Stick, but based on the figures you shared, it seems that Mig will be my most power hungry of the three. With that said, if it is specified to be 240v/30A, that would work out to about 7200 running watts, at which point I'm assuming a generator like this would suffice?
To your point, IF I can get away with dong 1/4" steel on Mig, on 120v then I can purchase the generator at a later date. I don't think that gauge steel, however, can be done on 120V... but I may be wrong.

 

[The Cobbler]

how long of a run would it be from the drier to the garage... also what about an electric stove ? is it closer ? I think the extension cord from drier or stove is the easiest , less expensive, and you don't have the noise to worry about

 

[alex123]

You certainly can run an extension cord to run your tools, as mentioned, it just needs to be of sufficient wire size. You may have to build it yourself.

As for dual 110/220, or even 110 welders, from your description, you should be able to find a machine that will do what you want. Currently, I only have a 30 amp capable extension cord run to my garage, so I have a dual voltage welder, and my plasma is 110, but can run either 15 or 20 amp circuit.
What happens is that the machine's capabilities are less on the lesser power input. The machine specs will say what this is. So, if still shopping for your machine, look at the specs.

As for the compressor, idk if there are dual voltage units. Your planned air needs will dictate whether a 110 unit will suffice. Again, go to the output specs, compare with your expected usages.

Always plan high, meaning always try to supply more than you're thinking you need.

Honestly, I just want the capability of being able to pick the machine I want without having to worry so much about the specs. If a good generator will solve that problem for about a thousand bucks or so, I'll happily do it. Unfortunately, for me, I'm in this position where I've had several moves over the years and none of the rental units I've been in have had 240V (except for the washer/dryer). The current unit does have it, but it's all the way up on the third floor... and just the thought of running a wire three stores makes me want to face palm myself. haha. I'm hoping that I can just get a decent generator like this one, and be done with it. That's a big IF that type of setup would even work?

 

[alex123]

how long of a run would it be from the drier to the garage... also what about an electric stove ? is it closer ? I think the extension cord from drier or stove is the easiest , less expensive, and you don't have the noise to worry about

From the dryer to the garage would be a good 120 feet as the wire would have to zig-zag down three flights of stairs. From the stove to the garage, we'd probably be looking at about 70 feet. If you feel a generator would work, that would be my first choice. Yes, it would cost more, but then I don't have to hear my wife nag about not being able to use the appliances... haha

 

[Jersey Drew]

Unless you plan on doing chassis work or welding roll cages a 110 welder is plenty of power for the home user. A small welder any 125 machine can do 3/16. A 140 machine can do 5/16 thick material. for simple tasks around the house including fixing lawnmowers and welding thin metals like automotive body panels a 110 welder will do everything. Just remember for the thinner metals you’re gonna need a gas one, flux core doesn’t handle thin metals well.


and as a sidenote if you’re dead set on getting a big welder both Lincoln and Miller offer welders with built-in generators for on the go usage. Then you never have to worry about power because it’s built-in

 

[Lightning rod]

the specs on the link page (did not check the manual) indicates 25.5a at 240 v connection


at 240v , you will need a 30 amp breaker or max output from generator

= 240x30=7200w minimum running watts

your generator as indicated will supply max 31.25 a at 240v

you should be good to go

 

[GeoBruin]

Yeah, if you're going to drop a G on a generator and another G on a Harbor Freight welder, you could probably find a used 200 amp generator welder in good shape.

 

[The Cobbler]

I agree on the welder generator if you're set on getting a generator

 

[alex123]

Unless you plan on doing chassis work or welding roll cages a 110 welder is plenty of power for the home user. A small welder any 125 machine can do 3/16. A 140 machine can do 5/16 thick material. for simple tasks around the house including fixing lawnmowers and welding thin metals like automotive body panels a 110 welder will do everything. Just remember for the thinner metals you’re gonna need a gas one, flux core doesn’t handle thin metals well.


and as a sidenote if you’re dead set on getting a big welder both Lincoln and Miller offer welders with built-in generators for on the go usage. Then you never have to worry about power because it’s built-in

Thank you for sharing this. Built-in generators? My understanding of a conventional generator is that they are essentially your power source. Are you saying the Lincoln and Miller ones offer a generator in the sense that they do not need to be hooked up to an external power source? I can't wrap my head around this concept, if you could please elaborate.

 

[alex123]

the specs on the link page (did not check the manual) indicates 25.5a at 240 v connection


at 240v , you will need a 30 amp breaker or max output from generator

= 240x30=7200w minimum running watts

your generator as indicated will supply max 31.25 a at 240v

you should be good to go

Thank you my friend. I'll happily drop a grand on that if it'll take care of my power source issues for the air compressor and generator.

 

[alex123]

Yeah, if you're going to drop a G on a generator and another G on a Harbor Freight welder, you could probably find a used 200 amp generator welder in good shape.

So a generator welder is basically self-containted/self-powered in the sense that I do not need to hook it up to a 240V power source? I was thinking of getting a stand alone generator not just for the welder, but also for a 60 gallon air compressor

 

[GeoBruin]

Yes, fully self contained, but it has plugs on it so you can run other things just like a regular generator.

 

[alex123]

Yes, fully self contained, but it has plugs on it so you can run other things just like a regular generator.

I just checked it out and those things aren't cheap. The trailblazer 325 comes in at $6675. That's significantly more than 1k for the generator and 1k for a welder... and keeping the two separate allows me to power a 240V air compressor.

 

[alex123]

the specs on the link page (did not check the manual) indicates 25.5a at 240 v connection


at 240v , you will need a 30 amp breaker or max output from generator

= 240x30=7200w minimum running watts

your generator as indicated will supply max 31.25 a at 240v

you should be good to go

okay, so I just checked the air compressor I'm interested in which is rated at 15.2amps @ 230volts, which the previously mentioned generator can handle. However, I also noticed the generator said "230v 3-phase" air compressor. What does "3 phase" mean, and what implications does it have for my use case of running the compressor off a generator? Thank you

 

[GeoBruin]

But you're comparing apples and oranges. Not only is that a Miller, it's a 325. That's a far cry from a 200 amp Harbor freight welder and a Costco generator.

There are more comparable options, like a Hobart Champion Elite. 225 amp welder, 11,000 watt generator, with a 50 amp Nema 650-r plug to run your compressor and a whole gaggle of 120 v 20A outlets.

$3,250 from Northern tool. Or you can shop used.

Anyway, you know your budget/requirements best, but there's a reason generator welders exist. They're optimized for the emount and type of power welders require.

 

[Lucid Moments]

okay, so I just checked the air compressor I'm interested in which is rated at 15.2amps @ 230volts, which the previously mentioned generator can handle. However, I also noticed the generator said "230v 3-phase" air compressor. What does "3 phase" mean, and what implications does it have for my use case of running the compressor off a generator? Thank you

Three phase power describes the way the power is delivered so that the wave forms overlap. This allows for more powerful motors running with less power. Three phase generators are ridiculously expensive. You are not likely to want to buy that, and there really shouldn't be any need for it either. There are plenty of single phase air compressors out there even up to 10hp which is way more than any homeowner should ever need.

Another thing to watch out for when buying a generator. It is not uncommon for a generators 240v output to be limited to 30 amps. More is available, but it is something to watch out for.

 

[GeoBruin]

It's late so I'm not going to go back to basics on single phase vs 3 phase power but suffice it to say thay to run a 3 phase motor on a generator, you need a 3 phase generator. You probably don't want to go there. Not only that but if you one day move to a place that has 220 power but not 3 phase, you won't be able to run the compressor on your 220 outlet.

There are plenty of comparable compressors with single phase motors. I would start there.

 

[Gunfixr]

Well, you can just pick out the machine you want, but the specs are what the machine can do.

Something to think about: the job will determine what the right tool is.

Yes, you can have more welder than the job needs. But, you have limited power for it.

 

[alex123]

It's late so I'm not going to go back to basics on single phase vs 3 phase power but suffice it to say thay to run a 3 phase motor on a generator, you need a 3 phase generator. You probably don't want to go there. Not only that but if you one day move to a place that has 220 power but not 3 phase, you won't be able to run the compressor on your 220 outlet.

There are plenty of comparable compressors with single phase motors. I would start there.

If there are comparable compressors, I'll just do that then... No sense in pigeon holing myself into 3 phase if it's not necessary to get the job done. Thanks again!

 

[alex123]

Well, you can just pick out the machine you want, but the specs are what the machine can do.

Something to think about: the job will determine what the right tool is.

Yes, you can have more welder than the job needs. But, you have limited power for it.

I don't really plan on welding anything thicker than 1/4" steel, and by the sounds of it, that can be done on 110V. I just don't want to be in a position where I'm having to buy a whole new welder because I didn't go all the way on the first one.

 

[GeoBruin]

Many (most?) of the leading 200 amp machines on the market have dual voltage options. I would highly recommend you start there. Get the welder, start working with what you have power wise, and wait until you find the need to weld thicker material (if you ever do) to figure out how you're going to power it.

Regarding your compressor, what are you looking to use it for? There are a couple 120 volt machines that are actually pretty capable for all but the most demanding uses.

 

[bwringer]

You're talking about spending a shitload of money and taking up a lot of space when your needs are still not all that defined.

Why not buy decent 120V stuff and try it out. See how things go, and if you just can't stand working with 120V machines, then maybe pursue other ideas.


For the welder, get a decent 120V machine and try it out. The flux core machines will get a lot of stuff done, or step up to a machine that can use gas. You may find that it does pretty well for many or most of your uses.

If not, you can sell it on CrackList very easily for very close to what you have in it.


Same for the air compressor; there's a 2HP model at HF that runs on 120V and has large enough tank that it will run an air impact or short bursts with an air hammer pretty well. You can't run a lot of stuff continuously, but it'll be pretty handy. And again, very easy to sell quickly if and when you move or get 240V somehow.

 

[ddawg16]

Buy a jeep....modify it to have on-board air and a welder.

When not welding, you can go off roading.

Problem solved.