You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
12 point SAE needed?
- Thread starter pipsters
- Start date
porcupine73
Well-known member
I actually don't even have them in my main toolbox. The only place I could see using them would be the head bolts on my cars which are 12pt. I don't have any other 12pt fasteners but being just a hobbyist that is probably surprising. I very rarely use 12pt wrenches, usually I can get the right angle to fit a 6pt on most things.
plinker
Well-known member
I use a 12pt 1/2 when changing U-joints on Mack trucks, there are a few other 12pt bolts on them too. Some Ford engines, Diesels I think, have 12pt head bolts.
On Rangers, some use 5/16 12pt socket for the 4wd shaft, others use a T30 torx, but I prefer the 12pt so I replace them with ferry cap screws. But a 6pt flange bolt would work too, I think. The rear drive shaft uses 12pt 12mm bolts.
Thats about all I've run into so far. They seem to show up in odd places. I'm sure heavy equipment has it's fair share of them, along with aircraft.
On Rangers, some use 5/16 12pt socket for the 4wd shaft, others use a T30 torx, but I prefer the 12pt so I replace them with ferry cap screws. But a 6pt flange bolt would work too, I think. The rear drive shaft uses 12pt 12mm bolts.
Thats about all I've run into so far. They seem to show up in odd places. I'm sure heavy equipment has it's fair share of them, along with aircraft.
GoBlue
Well-known member
No...for the extremely rare instance i come across a 12pt. fastener i just use a wrench or gearwrench
afazz
Well-known member
Ultra high strength bolts are usually 12 point, the ones for automotive use are made by ARP or borrowed from the aerospace industry. Anyone who builds hot rods or high performance American motors will use them pretty often.
OK to step it up, any reason for a deep 12 point socket that anyone can come up with? Most head bolts are flat and aren't of the nut type in my experience. Just trying to see if I can in good conscience sell off my 12 point SAE stuff.
ibedayank
Well-known member
just like every other tool....when nothing else works you just need em
V70R
Well-known member
ARP fasteners. B18c head studs were 1/2'' nuts and 7/16'' on the rod bolts. 1/2'' on the Volkswagen's also.
wreckerman5357
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2011
- Messages
- 373
Rear driveshaft in 1st generation Explorer has 1/2" 12 pointers.
diesel research
Well-known member
I have a single 1/2" 12pt 1/2drive impact socket. Only SAE 12pt (impact) I own. Some chrome, but you already know my stance on them in general. I use that socket semi-regularly, because a wrench doesn't have enough leverage to pull down on 125ft-lb bolt and red loctite. Well, it can with a pipe, that is how a coworker bent his snappy long pattern wrench.
On the other hand, sometimes 12pt is handy with a breaker bar, as it allows more clocking positions.
______________________________
I am going to up this debate to maximum overdrive, by posing an equally valid question.
Is there any real reason to own 1/2" drive 6pt sockets above a certain size? In my own experience, I have found that rounding out mostly occurs only in a certain size range and gets worse as the size gets smaller. For example, I am willing to bet not nearly as many have rounded a 15/16 or 1-1/4 bolt compared to say a 9/16 or 14mm.
Now someone can find reason to dispute that, and in the end the conclusion might simply be "both".
On the other hand, sometimes 12pt is handy with a breaker bar, as it allows more clocking positions.
______________________________
I am going to up this debate to maximum overdrive, by posing an equally valid question.
Is there any real reason to own 1/2" drive 6pt sockets above a certain size? In my own experience, I have found that rounding out mostly occurs only in a certain size range and gets worse as the size gets smaller. For example, I am willing to bet not nearly as many have rounded a 15/16 or 1-1/4 bolt compared to say a 9/16 or 14mm.
Now someone can find reason to dispute that, and in the end the conclusion might simply be "both".
plinker
Well-known member
On the other hand, sometimes 12pt is handy with a breaker bar, as it allows more clocking positions.
I run into this every so often, it's nice to have options available.
metaldad
Well-known member
I work on large centrifugal water chillers. York uses 12 point bolts/ machine screws.. Carrier and Trane use standard 6 pointers.
Steevo
Well-known member
I can't see limiting myself to only six-point sockets. I have most in both SAE and metric, 6 & 12 point, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" drive, and some 3/4" drives (need more). I also have a set of 8-point SAE sockets. Hell, If I saw a set of 9-point sockets, I'd probably have to have them, too.
flintsghost
Well-known member
Really Pipsters! You can't be serious. 12 pt sockets and box ends aren't for 12 pt fasteners though they could be used for that if you find some. They are designed to give you more position options than a 6 pt when working in tight spaces. They are designed to turn 6 pt nuts and bolts. When working, especially on vehicles you can't always get an ideal position to stick the 6 pt on the fastener, but with a 12 pt tool you can adjust a hair one way or the other and get right on it.
For a while I have worked off an on as a mechanic and done a lot of super "shade tree" projects. There are a couple of applications where a 6 pt is the only way to go, like spark plugs for instance or lug nuts for another. But except for those types of very notable things, I won't own sockets or wrenches that don't have 12 pt unless I'm in a bind and can't find a 12 pt or the price on a 6 pt is so good that I can't pass it up (even then I have to think about it pretty hard.) 12 pts are just so much more handy and that's why many mechanics who actually do work, rather than just collect or acquire tools, prefer them.
For a while I have worked off an on as a mechanic and done a lot of super "shade tree" projects. There are a couple of applications where a 6 pt is the only way to go, like spark plugs for instance or lug nuts for another. But except for those types of very notable things, I won't own sockets or wrenches that don't have 12 pt unless I'm in a bind and can't find a 12 pt or the price on a 6 pt is so good that I can't pass it up (even then I have to think about it pretty hard.) 12 pts are just so much more handy and that's why many mechanics who actually do work, rather than just collect or acquire tools, prefer them.
Last edited:
I use 12 point or splines pretty much exclusively. 6pt is buried in the bottom of my box somewhere.
I'm working on some magnetos that all have a 5/8 6pt nut torqued the same and I'm checking the contact patch after removal. So far I've used SK spline and a Kobalt/Danaher 6pt and the spline grips further back than the 6pt. Still have Napa 12pt, Gray 6pt, and maybe Bonney or Husky to go.
I'm working on some magnetos that all have a 5/8 6pt nut torqued the same and I'm checking the contact patch after removal. So far I've used SK spline and a Kobalt/Danaher 6pt and the spline grips further back than the 6pt. Still have Napa 12pt, Gray 6pt, and maybe Bonney or Husky to go.
12 pt sockets and box ends aren't for 12 pt fasteners..... They are designed to give you more position options than a 6 pt when working in tight spaces. They are designed to turn 6 pt nuts and bolts.
^^^ This. This was especially true when ratchets were commonly 36ish teeth and you needed that extra flexibility of being able choose one set of socket points or the other. Nowadays not as big a deal. But go look at the socket contact points thread and notice that 12 pt and 6 pt contact the fastener the same way.
Really Pipsters! You can't be serious. 12 pt sockets and box ends aren't for 12 pt fasteners though they could be used for that if you find some. They are designed to give you more position options than a 6 pt when working in tight spaces. 12 pts are just so much more handy and that's why many mechanics who actually do work, rather than just collect or acquire tools, prefer them.
A long time ago in a workshop far far away this might be true, but in the days
since decent ratchets were invented I don't buy this for a minute. I would be
willing to bet, most pro's use 6pt sockets and will only use a 12pt when a
breaker bar is needed and they cannot get the angle they need with a 6pt, and
of course for 12pt fasteners.
How much? Most pros would grab whatever is handy and not damage the fastener. Time is money.A long time ago in a workshop far far away this might be true, but in the days
since decent ratchets were invented I don't buy this for a minute. I would be
willing to bet, most pro's use 6pt sockets and will only use a 12pt when a
breaker bar is needed and they cannot get the angle they need with a 6pt, and
of course for 12pt fasteners.
What I find interesting is every time the argument is made that 12 pt is better for breaker bars but is not the right tool for the job when you have a fine tooth ratchet. Why a 12pt for a high torque situation but 6pt for low?
Last edited:
How much? Most pros would grab whatever is handy and not damage the fastener. Time is money.
What I find interesting is every time the argument is made that 12 pt is better for breaker bars but is not the right tool for the job when you have a fine tooth ratchet. Why a 12pt for a high torque situation but 6pt for low?
That is a good argument, I guess when you have to use a breaker bar it's only
likely that it will be used on large nuts where 12pt vs 6pt is probably moot.
but on teeny tiny low torque or aluminium fasteners I personally would only
want to use 6pt.
sberry
Banned
I like 12 points fine for most things, a rusted, damaged, some hi torque deal with a small head I am not scared to dig up the right socket but 99 times out of a hundred a 12 is fine and like them with air ratchet work.
______________________________
I am going to up this debate to maximum overdrive, by posing an equally valid question.
Is there any real reason to own 1/2" drive 6pt sockets above a certain size? In my own experience, I have found that rounding out mostly occurs only in a certain size range and gets worse as the size gets smaller. For example, I am willing to bet not nearly as many have rounded a 15/16 or 1-1/4 bolt compared to say a 9/16 or 14mm.
Now someone can find reason to dispute that, and in the end the conclusion might simply be "both".
Yeah, I was playing with a 1-1/8" nut last night, and looked to me the 12 pointer socket was just as good as the 6 pointer as far as contact points go. Might almost make sense to own 12 point 1/2" drive exclusively.
Like you said, the bigger the bolt the smaller the difference between 6 and 12 point. I would also agree that the smaller the bolt, going 12 point definitely risks rounding out the bolt.
plinker
Well-known member
The main issue I have with 12pt is if the fastener is partialy rounded or corroded it can round the fastener further. The other issue is unless you are not on the fastener square it can round/marr the corners of the fastener too.
I agree with this, I replaced the 7/16 1/2 & 9/16 out of my 1/2 drive S-K 12pt set, as they were rounded. The rest were/are just fine, but I did replace the 3/4 as it had been used alot.
Is there any real reason to own 1/2" drive 6pt sockets above a certain size? In my own experience, I have found that rounding out mostly occurs only in a certain size range and gets worse as the size gets smaller. For example, I am willing to bet not nearly as many have rounded a 15/16 or 1-1/4 bolt compared to say a 9/16 or 14mm.
I agree with this, I replaced the 7/16 1/2 & 9/16 out of my 1/2 drive S-K 12pt set, as they were rounded. The rest were/are just fine, but I did replace the 3/4 as it had been used alot.