Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
I went looking for a 12 pt to fit 12mm square. Since I was welding it, cheap was fine. A Princess Auto and a KMS tool store only had 6pt in 3/8" I guess the world is converting over.
12 Point Sockets getting rare
- Thread starter Downwindtracker 2
- Start date
Wrench97
Well-known member
12 pt sockets do not fit 4 sided(square) fasteners.
That would take a 8 pt socket.
That would take a 8 pt socket.
12 divided by 3 = ?
four.cycle
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dnschmidt
Well-known member
Wrong angles. 12 point sockets will not have the correct 90 degree included angle to work on a square instead they are 60 degrees. 8 point do. This is the same difference between the XZN drive used on Eurotrash and the double hex that Toyota uses for it's head bolts. They are not the same.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
Guess every farmer and rancher in the center of the country fixing their equipment to keep us all fed didn’t get your memo.
OP
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
It will be welded on anyway, no sense spending money on quality. And it wasn't out of my way.
There isn't a 12pt that's good ft for 12mm square . Sometimes you get lucky, but not this time. I have fair selection of standard 8pt, but no metric.
There isn't a 12pt that's good ft for 12mm square . Sometimes you get lucky, but not this time. I have fair selection of standard 8pt, but no metric.
I've never seen or used a 12mm 4pt or 8pt female socket before. 10mm yes, but not 12. I'm thinking your best bet might be to get a cheap spline/universal socket from your local big box type home improvement store. According to the chart I attached to this post, a 15mm universal/spline socket will fit a 12mm square fitting.
You're in Canada OP, but here's a couple links to cheap 15mm spline sockets in the US. Maybe they will help you find something equivalent where you live.
www.harborfreight.com
Note- this link is for a 1/2" drive socket
You're in Canada OP, but here's a couple links to cheap 15mm spline sockets in the US. Maybe they will help you find something equivalent where you live.
3/8 in. Drive Metric Spline Socket Set, 7-Piece
Amazing deals on this 7Pc 3/8In Dr Metric Spline Socket Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
Note- this link is for a 1/2" drive socket
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dnschmidt
Well-known member
Well, they probably will regret that fact when they round off the edges of the square bolt they're trying to remove. The smallest city I've ever lived in was Austin, TX so I know little, well, actually nothing whatsoever, about farming. I'm pretty good with bolts though.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
This has been discussed before. According to this thread Koken might have them. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/metric-8-point-sockets.56929/
Spline is a good suggestion. Those are way more ubiquitous and would give you a better bite on a square fastener. Channellock makes a set (or rather, has one made for them since it's an import product). I have some from Wurth that I like. Proto makes spline drive ratcheting wrenches.
Spline drive gets a bad rap because it's often sold as "universal" drive - e.g. supposedly allowing you to use one set for both SAE and metric. What this actually means is that they've sized the spline drive sloppy to cover both sizes. The design for spline drive makes this easier to do than if you tried it with 12pt, which if you made sloppy enough to do both sizes would probably just slip. There's good spline drive too - I've no problems with my Proto wrenches. They are clearly spline drive but sized for specific fasteners.
BTW, you could even have found that at Princess Auto. Admittedly, not as loose stock though.
Spline drive gets a bad rap because it's often sold as "universal" drive - e.g. supposedly allowing you to use one set for both SAE and metric. What this actually means is that they've sized the spline drive sloppy to cover both sizes. The design for spline drive makes this easier to do than if you tried it with 12pt, which if you made sloppy enough to do both sizes would probably just slip. There's good spline drive too - I've no problems with my Proto wrenches. They are clearly spline drive but sized for specific fasteners.
BTW, you could even have found that at Princess Auto. Admittedly, not as loose stock though.
OP
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
'Specialty sockets are as close as your welding bench . My metal lathe, an ongoing project, has a 8" three jaw import chuck . The previous owner had made a chuck key out of 12mm keystock, poorly. It has a short handle making getting a tight clamp on small stock hit and miss. I watched AvE working on his Boxford lathe , he had made up a socket for his Bernhard-Pratt chuck. It worked slick. I have 3/8 speeder and t-handle in the tool cabinet nearby.
At another KMS store, not just a mere franchise this time, I found a large bin of clearance sockets. After a long time pawing through it, I found 15mm Blackhawk, I was looking for 14 or 9/16 socket, $2.99. I think I might try 316 stainless, this time, it's nice and soft. Even 7018 occasionally cracks at the high carbon joint.
At another KMS store, not just a mere franchise this time, I found a large bin of clearance sockets. After a long time pawing through it, I found 15mm Blackhawk, I was looking for 14 or 9/16 socket, $2.99. I think I might try 316 stainless, this time, it's nice and soft. Even 7018 occasionally cracks at the high carbon joint.
Al Borland
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IF you need to do the job right, get the right tool.
If the square nut is going in the circular file...
I found that Craftsman only makes 12pt in 3/8, at least at Lowes when I needed to exchange some 6pt. But while they will "fit" a square plug, the contact angle is wrong which can be a problem. You need an 8pt socket. It's a good idea to have a set of them.
I guess if your super desperate, hack off a section of old leaf spring with an angle grinder. Heat it red and let it cool in sand. Drill a hole and square it with a hand file. If you really want to get fancy grind it into the shape of a proper wrench. Then heat it red, and quench it water. Polish it up with some sand paper then heat it to straw color.
Personally, I just go buy one. But I used to do that stuff when I was young and broke.
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B_Bimmer
Well-known member
I use 12 point sockets on pipe plugs all the time, they work fine. Just make sure you find one that fits snug.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
@Downwindtracker 2
Dont know the application, but since you are welding it, you could always use a 1/2 drive socket backwards. The 1/2 drive size is 12.7mm so thats plenty workable. If a bit socket is used, then its immediately ready to use with either a wrench or socket.
Dont know the application, but since you are welding it, you could always use a 1/2 drive socket backwards. The 1/2 drive size is 12.7mm so thats plenty workable. If a bit socket is used, then its immediately ready to use with either a wrench or socket.
So Ks, do you suppose that we all still hand crank the tractor to get it started too?
lg
no neat sig line
like2wheel
Well-known member
You sound like a kid who has never lived in the real world...12pt's work just fine on square bolts. Perfect fit? No, but they work 99% of the time.
And sometimes they strip the corners off. They work most of the time. But over the years, I've learned it's not a particularly good idea considering that the right tools are not that expensive.
Has yet to happen to me...pretty rare to see square plugs these days anyway and on farm equipment they're big enough fasteners you're unlikely to round the corners anyway. It's just such a non-issue using regular 12pt's on the oddball square thing you find day to day that it makes no sense to cry fowl on using them and insist it's an instant disaster.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Ive used them to test the FULL scale of torque wrenches mating to the drive of a dial type. Never had one round or slip. One could argue its tool steel on tool steel, but non-the-less, it works.
Ton ton
Well-known member
I still have plenty of 12 point sockets in my neighborhood.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
12-points are fine for larger sizes. There is enough contact on quality sockets for them to work. For smaller sizes, 6-point is better for hex fasteners.
For square fasteners, a set of double-square sockets are better. Spline sockets will also work, though I don't trust them as much. I'm talking sockets, not bit sockets. For those, triple square (XZN) is where it's at.
Plus there's Torx and E-torx, which make me suspicious that car companies are intentionally trying to make it harder for us to wrench on them.
For square fasteners, a set of double-square sockets are better. Spline sockets will also work, though I don't trust them as much. I'm talking sockets, not bit sockets. For those, triple square (XZN) is where it's at.
Plus there's Torx and E-torx, which make me suspicious that car companies are intentionally trying to make it harder for us to wrench on them.
seber
Well-known member
On the ranch I almost always grabbed an adjustable for square nuts but they never went back on. Even if I had to wait until the next trip into town to get a hex nut. In any case, there is always some way to kluge a tool that will get it off if you don't care about saving it.
OP
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
As for square headed bolts, the two place were they are common, outside of old machinery , are timber bolts and square headed set screws. They are frequently used as adjustment bolts. They work better than the flimsy adjusters mounts for electric motors.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
No, but a hell of a lot of old implements Hitch up just fine behind a new $500k tractor. And a decades old chute will still load a heifer as effectively as a brand new super deluxe one. Being a smart *** doesn’t change the reality of life out here on the prairie. We still have a lot of SAE fasteners holding our old **** together too.
wolf_from_wv
Well-known member
O'Reilly, Advance Auto, Autozone, Lowes, Home Depot, Sunex, Matco show one listed here.
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I actually swapped a bunch of my 3/8 6pt sockets for 12pts. My rationale is that my 3/8 sets are geared toward versatility. The 1/4 and 1/2 sets which generally do precise or heavy work are 6pts.
OP
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
All done. I welded a fitted 12mm key stock into a 15mm 12pt. I used 7018. It's for a chuck key for the metal lathe. Welding once every few months is a bit of a challenge. My helmet was slow, so I guess I need to change the battery.
toolenthusiast
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Why do farmers always get slandered as the go-to example of people who do **** incorrectly? All the farmers I know are wise enough to use the correct tool whenever possible. And my Snap-on man sells a LOT of tools to farmers. So let’s all stop pretending that farmers are out in the fields with nothing but a hammer and a crescent wrench.
fuggle
Well-known member
My family on both sides are multi-generation farmers in central Illinois. I think the point is, when you are 100 miles from a Snap-on truck you do what it takes to get the job done. And in the case of this particular thread, 8 pt sockets are likely not the go to tools when you already have a 12pt.
As an example, my Dad used a vice grip for a gas pedal on our (I don't remember the year) panel van when the original broke. It worked. lol
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
They also make a dandy window crank and gearshift in a bind as well.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
It’s not slander, it’s adaptation and improvisation at its best. I did the same thing in the oilfield all the time. When it’s 4 am, the wind is blowing snow sideways and you need to get something back online, the snap on man, craftsman counter, harbor freight etc isn’t going to be there with an 8 point socket, triple square, or spline drive. But the 12 point that fits and gets the job done is ready to go. As is the old rusty combination wrench or god forbid, channel locks. It’s not slander, it’s can do, bullheaded, Teddy Roosevelt style determination in the face of urban, douche bag snobbery. I have a whole rack of 8 points, and I’m trying to score a decent deal on square plug sockets, but damned if I’m going to let not having the perfect tool keep me from finishing the job or at least getting the bleeding stopped until I can get the right tools for the job in hand.
bsaint
Well-known member
A lot of farmers I know take pride in getting the craziest task done with the wrong tools / supplies.