12" Sliding Compound Miter Saw Recommendations

[Von Der Pfalz]

Hi all,

Have done some searching, but haven't found a comprehensive thread on Sliding Compound Miter Saws.

I am in the market for one. I have a Craftsman Radial Arm saw, but really am not a huge fan of it. I am looking for high precision, I come from a family of machinists, and have a hard time dealing with the loose tolerances usually accepted in wood working. My current list I am looking at include:

Dewalt - Common brand with decent quality found at big box stores. I've heard a lot of good things about them, but rarely see a real wood worker using one.

Bosch - I have a lot of older bosch tools that I absolutely love, but do not have any personal experience with them now.

Milwaukee - I know there is a whole new movement with them now a days, I have quite a few Milwaukee tools (New and old, some from the Delta/milwaukee era) I have read a lot of good things on their saw, and it has a digital read out, giving accuracy to .1 Degrees (makes me giddy).

I want a 12" saw simply for the ability to cut 4" lumber.

I would love some comments, recommendations from you all. I want to spend this money once for the next 30 years. I am open to other brands but want higher quality. Not quite willing to spend Frestool prices though, so preferably under $1,000.

Thanks all!

 

[WilltheEngineer]

VDP,
I've had a 10" sliding Craftsman for 6yrs, and looking now to upgrade to a 12" sliding. One problem with the sliding is the leverage/flexing a handle can put on the blade, it's just a little, but if you build furniture, etc..it might be a problem.

Another problem with the sliding miter saws, is the area needed behind the saw for the guild rods. Two in the lower price range (not Frestool), the Bosch and Hitachi 12"'s have removed this in their design.

I'm looking at the Hitachi, been looking at it for a couple of years..a lot of great reviews. I like Bosch tools, and their design....but the $ is little high for me..

The Hitachi (non-computer) goes on sell every other month for $400, look for a 10% coupon code, n you should be out the door under $400.

It has some little features, micro adjust, handle is in line with the blade, etc...that you may like.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_42379-67702...saw&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=miter+saw&facetInfo=

Hope it helps..

 

[WilltheEngineer]

VDP,
Apologizes, Lowe's links to their home page...

Hitachi Model #: C12RSH

 

[-Hey_Now-]

Dewalt --- with a Diablo or Freud blade will be your best friend for life.

 

[rancherbill]

What are your anticipated projects?

Carpentry is much different than machining! Close counts.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

I need one too, will be watching this thread.

Will, that Hitachi looks cool. But from looking at it, I'm confused. What does it slide on if they got rid of the guide rods?

 

[WilltheEngineer]

Guild rods on the right side....and can be extended. May want to go into a Lowes n give it a look...

I think Hitachi has a good warranty also..

 

[Trey T]

Currently there three types of sliding miter saws:

1. Fixed sliding rail (Festool & Hitachi)
2. Hinged sliding arm (Bosch)
3. Dynamic sliding rail (All other brands)


I own a Dewalt 10" DB sliding saw and it works really well but I wish I have the fixed sliding rail that Festool innovated.

The biggest cost-benefit 12" DB sliding miter saw is the Hitachi (C12RSH or C12LSH(w/ DRO)). If I were to buy another sliding miter saw, I would get the Hitachi but 10" only, not the 12".

 

[yfz 450]

Dewalt!!!!

 

[SARG]

Here's a place to get Hitachi reconditioned tools. Bigskytools.com.

I've bought numerous tools from them and I've not been disappointed yet.

http://bigskytool.com/hitachi-c12rs...iter-saw-with-laser-marker-reconditioned.html

(The picture shown doesn't look like a slider though)

They also have Dewalt and Makita

http://bigskytool.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=miter+saw

 

[TomB19]

I have had the DeWalt 708 for 15 years and it's been an excellent saw. It still cuts accurately.

I'm going to replace it with the Hitachi because the DeWalt, like almost all sliders, requires too much space behind the saw for the slide rails. It cannot be positioned close to a wall. Jon Peters (YouTube guy) cut a hole in his wall and built a box around it but he works in a renovated barn.

Rear space is important to me so the saws that respect this space are:

Festool Kapex - Looks like a very nice saw but the price will take your breath away.

Bosch Glide - Has a beautifully designed mechanism. It is not cheap but it would be worth it if the mechanism were accurate. There are too many complaints on the web of people disappointed with the rigidity of the glide when extended.

Hitachi - Like Festool, Hitachi has simply reversed the rails so the head can slide forward, instead of the whole carriage sliding back toward the wall. Unlike Festool, the Hitachi mechanism can slide either way. I question how accurate it will be, however, there are so many positive testimonials, I'm going to give it a try. Also worth mentioning some people who have the digital display seem to suggest it's a gimmick and not worth the money.

King (and I'm sure other Chinese re-branders) has a saw with fixed glide bars and a forward sliding carriage. It looks like it would be better than most sliders but worse than the top three saws mentioned here. I've seen it on for $150 and don't consider it to be a contractor grade saw but would be real curious to hear if someone had some experience with it.

 

[Trey T]

There's no doubt in my mind that the fixed sliding rail on Hitachi or Festool is much more ridgid than the typical dynamic sliding rail ones. From the structual engineering stand point, with the rail lies vertically (higher moment of inertia), it's more ridgid.

BTW, I'm not trying to discount the typical dynamic sliding rail miter saws that most ppl have, but until now there's a better miter saw out there at a affordable price.

 

[Von Der Pfalz]

Thank you for all of the responses! Most of the carpentry I will be doing is finish trim work right now, with furniture coming down the road.

I will go check out the Hitachi as well. I've never given Hitachi a second look, never knew they produced a decent tool. Part of what I like about names like Dewalt is they have been around forever, and there is comfort in that for me.....

Thanks again for all of the feed back!

 

[Daedalus]

I have used my Dewalt DW780 for trim work more than anything else. Obviously you don't need a 12" slider for trim, but it's nice to have for the occasional framing job. It is fantastic once you get the appropriate blade on it. The blade shadow indicator works awesome.

When I bought it, it was a very close tie between the Dewalt and the Hitachi. I went with the Dewalt simply because I got the deal where it came with the free saw stand. I think the Hitachi would have been as good in quality.

 

[TomB19]

There's no doubt in my mind that the fixed sliding rail on Hitachi or Festool is much more ridgid than the typical dynamic sliding rail ones.

I doubt the Hitachi is as solid as the Festool. The Hitachi rails slide on both ends. The Festool has one end fixed. Any side play in the bushings will compounded on the Hitachi, although it's probably improved somewhat by locking one end down with the finger clamps.

The Hitachi is an amazing value, though. I'm going to try one.

 

[TomB19]

This video out at 0:34 shows how the Hitachi slider works. It can be locked on either end or allowed to float.

 

[Trey T]

I don't know for certain but I was wrong about the Festool design. I forgot how the Festool looked like and I kept thinking it looks very similar to the Hitachi. What I mean to say is that, just by the geometrical placement of the rails, vertically vs. horizontally, the vertical rails are more ridgid.

i.e. Dewalt had two different rail design, DW708 (vertical) and DW718 (horizontal).

 

[DonPowers]

Timely thread because I have also been looking for a 12" Saw. Lots of good info so far.

I don't see any comments on Makita, any issues with this saw? They have a good selection at the local building supply. Looks like the 12" may have been redesigned, as they had a discontinued model on the floor not that long ago.

Have not really looked at the Dewalt as I have their biscuit joiner and am not impressed. The blade does not run parallel to the fence and there is no adjustment.

 

[TomB19]

Have not really looked at the Dewalt as I have their biscuit joiner and am not impressed. The blade does not run parallel to the fence and there is no adjustment.

I have the DeWalt biscuit joiner, also. Same issue.

It can be adjusted to be parallel with some shim stock. Not a big deal.

 

[DonPowers]

I have the DeWalt biscuit joiner, also. Same issue.

It can be adjusted to be parallel with some shim stock. Not a big deal.

Thanks Tom, I do have some shim stock. Unfortunately, when I need it is when I remember it's not parallel and think I will take the time to fix it properly later on, then forget until the next time I need it. A built in adjustment sure would be easier.

 

[Trey T]

Some one mentioned weight which I believe is an important criteria for non-stationary needs. Here are the comparisons:

Festool KS 120 (10" blade) - 47lbs
Dewalt DW718 (12" blade) - 53lbs
Dewalt DW717 (10" blade) - 51lbs
Hitachi C12RSH (12" blade) - 64lbs

 

[TomB19]

Thanks Tom, I do have some shim stock. Unfortunately, when I need it is when I remember it's not parallel and think I will take the time to fix it properly later on, then forget until the next time I need it. A built in adjustment sure would be easier.

No question, it should have been correct from the factory. My biscuit joiner is probably 15 years old. I recall people complaining in the forums, even back then. ... but once it's fixed, you will forget about the problem forever.

 

[Von Der Pfalz]

I have looked at the saws at HF for grins....not impressed what so ever. I think would be fine if you're just using for framing, but no way would my OCD allow me to use it for finish work or trim....

 

[Von Der Pfalz]

Just came back from Fastenal with a quote of $720 for the Milwaukee.....interesting enough, they were telling me that the dewalt tools sold at the big box stores are on a tier system. Dewalt has lower quality (Maybe just less labor spent tuning) saws at these stores than others, their way of keeping costs down maybe. Let me know if you've heard this at all before. Conversation came up when their price on the Dewalt saw was 300 more than that of the "same" at home depot.

I do A LOT of business with them, and trust they wouldn't pull my leg, that being said, they may be ignorant.....

I am very much leaning towards the Milwaukee.....I really like its micro adjust set up and digital read out......
http://woodworking.about.com/od/recommendations/gr/Milwaukee6955.htm

I really like how quick the brake is for the blade, and a 5 year warranty.....dewalt only has a 3

 

[Dbn107]

Not sure I have posted on here yet, but long time lurker. I'm a finish carpenter by trade and have tried a ton of the saws out there. Currently for trim work I use a Dewalt 716 12" non-slider. For most finish work the capacity is plenty and the non-sliders are way way more accurate then sliders. Plus the 716 and a few other Dewalt saws accept the LED blade light. Most lasers need constant adjustment but this shines a shadow line of the blade on the work. It works great.

I've also owned 2 hitachi sliders. An older Japanese made 10" slider that was amazing. Super smooth, accurate and light. Took a tumble off the back of a truck sadly. The last hitachi was chinese and was the style being discussed with the high side mounted rails that could be locked either forward or back. Seemed great on paper and had a neat bevel and miter digital readout. Worst saw I have ever used. Heavy and most importantly never accurate. Theres no repeatable way to adjust the saw along the rail. I had a conversation with the hitachi customer service and they actually told me to use 2 long handled pry bars to "tweek" the rails until it cut square. Never could get it right. Others seem to have better luck with the saw but mine was a boat anchor.

I'm heavily invested in the Festool system but haven't bit the bullet yet on the Kapex. I have 2 different carpenter friends that have one and I've had the chance to use it several times. Its an amazing saw for site work based on the dust collection alone. I'm sure I'll end up buying one sooner or later.

 

[Voi]

I am looking for high precision, I come from a family of machinists, and have a hard time dealing with the loose tolerances usually accepted in wood working. My current list I am looking at include:

I want a 12" saw simply for the ability to cut 4" lumber.

Not quite willing to spend Frestool prices though, so preferably under $1,000.

If high accuracy is your concern and you need slider like capacity and you don't want to pay Festool prices (can't blame you there) then I think the Bosch Axial glide series is your best bet. Some of the real world out the door prices on them are surprisingly low and the reviews from real wood workers have been great.

I'd look closely at the 10" model and see if it meets your capacity requirements for 4" stock.

10" blades will have less wobble and be more accurate. 10" blades are also cheaper but I wouldn't let that sway you if you need 12" capacity.

 

[Von Der Pfalz]

I am a huge fan of Bosch products.....the Axial Glide worries me with the added moving parts with longevity in mind. I will do some more homework on it tonight. I saw it at Costco a while back, and was very impressed. Wish I had picked it up back then, as it was being sold at a great price.

I guess I could get away with out a slider.....I am just looking at if I am going to spend over $500 on a new saw, I don't want to be kicking myself in the **** down the road.

 

[Carves]

............ King (and I'm sure other Chinese re-branders) has a saw with fixed glide bars and a forward sliding carriage. It looks like it would be better than most sliders but worse than the top three saws mentioned here. I've seen it on for $150 and don't consider it to be a contractor grade saw but would be real curious to hear if someone had some experience with it.

Bought one, or a very similiar one a few weeks back,
... coz I couldnt justify spending a fortune on something that will sit on shelf for most of its life.

Fella down here that imports them ... gives a 3yr contractors use warranty.

I'm hoping that means it will last for 3yrs of home/DIY use,
... and not that I will constantly have it in pieces - waiting on free replacement parts ... for 3yrs ..

He did state that he has the wiring and a few other things upgraded before his decal goes on 'em.

Initial thoughts on it.

Probably as good as TTI's, chinese, "Ryobi" and "AEG" offerings, down here.

Its definitely not up to Japanese made Makita standards tho,
... but then, Makita is hardly up to Makita standards these days .. ..


Finish could be a bit better,
... some of the frame, casting edges, are sharper than the blade I think ..

... Lots of sawdust catching areas in the frame too.
... Had to clean up some threads that were poorly done.
... The supplied 100T blade cuts OK ... Will see how it goes with a quality blade fitted, at a later date.

Plenty of adjustments available to get it squared up tho ... This one was 99% square, out of the box.

Time will tell - whether it was value for its price I guess .. ?

Some pics of it here .. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4471267&postcount=46

.

 

[Carves]

Just came back from Fastenal with a quote of $720 for the Milwaukee.....interesting enough, they were telling me that the dewalt tools sold at the big box stores are on a tier system. Dewalt has lower quality (Maybe just less labor spent tuning) saws at these stores than others, their way of keeping costs down maybe. Let me know if you've heard this at all before. Conversation came up when their price on the Dewalt saw was 300 more than that of the "same" at home depot.

I do A LOT of business with them, and trust they wouldn't pull my leg, that being said, they may be ignorant.....

I am very much leaning towards the Milwaukee.....I really like its micro adjust set up and digital read out......
http://woodworking.about.com/od/recommendations/gr/Milwaukee6955.htm

I really like how quick the brake is for the blade, and a 5 year warranty.....dewalt only has a 3

Similiar situation down here ...

After weeks of shopping comparisons, I decided that big name brands need to be bought from a "proper" selling agent - rather than think I was getting a "good deal", at our big box store.

 

[Woody610nb]

I'm a stair and railing builder and use one everyday. After a long line of Dewalt's, I switched to the Bosch Glide. Great saw and very accurate.

 

[tarbellb]

Just came back from Fastenal.........

I am very much leaning towards the Milwaukee.....I really like its micro adjust set up and digital read out......
http://woodworking.about.com/od/recommendations/gr/Milwaukee6955.htm

I am a huge fan of Bosch products.....the Axial Glide worries me with the added moving parts with longevity in mind.......

Funny you mention the micro adjust and digi read out, but then are concerned of the "added parts" on the Axial Glide system.... a contradiction really. The parts I would be worried about are the electronic and plastic ones breaking or wearing out, not the metal and ball bearing ones.

Thats my opinion of course. I have experienced most of these saws first hand and will first say they are all fine saws that do the job. You mentioned money not being the deciding factor, so with that said look into the Bosch Axial system and the Makita. Makita has been doing their homework for the pro wood worker for the last decade and make a very good machine.

The LS1016L (12" dual slider w/laser" is very well thought out and a direct drive unit unlike other belt drive miter saws.

Good luck, let us know what you get.

 

[ishiboo]

Bosch DB Glide. Onsale at HD last I checked for $599, use 20% HF or 10% Lowes.

 

[sam.coll]

Makita LS1016 would buy another in a heartbeat, have used Dewalt and Hitachi but much prefer the Makita.

 

[rice rocket]

Dewalt has lower quality (Maybe just less labor spent tuning) saws at these stores than others, their way of keeping costs down maybe. Let me know if you've heard this at all before. Conversation came up when their price on the Dewalt saw was 300 more than that of the "same" at home depot.

Check the SKUs, if they're the same, then even DeWalt themselves wouldn't be able to track which goes where.

In electronics, it's been common in the past couple years to make model numbers specific to each store so customers can't ask for price matches. They could also build them slightly different; i.e. I know Costco had specifically requested some of their TVs built with a non-glossy coating on their TVs because it looks much worse in a warehouse setting than say in Best Buy, where they turn all the lights down in their TV section.

 

[rice rocket]

I am a huge fan of Bosch products.....the Axial Glide worries me with the added moving parts with longevity in mind. .

On the contrary...the ball bearing industry is well developed and very standardized. You could probably replace all the bearings in that saw with your choice of replacement brands for a fraction of the cost of replacing proprietary guide rails, provided that they will even sell them to you.

 

[rancherbill]

Dewalt has lower quality (Maybe just less labor spent tuning) saws at these stores than others, their way of keeping costs down maybe. Let me know if you've heard this at all before. Conversation came up when their price on the Dewalt saw was 300 more than that of the "same" at home depot.

So Dewalt send the seconds to Home Depot and sends the good ones to Fastenal. That is good to know. I would have never guessed Fastenal was that important to Dewalt.

I bought a very well used Makita for $20 at a garage sale, put $25 in parts into it and it works great.

For a non-pro carpenter, doing the projects you are planning, all the brands mentioned will work well. By the time you get good using the saw, you will be finished the projects.

The other thing to remember is that doing trim in a house you will find very few things are truly square. Close is good enough for most things. That's why they make filler.

 

[jake00]

Makita LS1016 would buy another in a heartbeat, have used Dewalt and Hitachi but much prefer the Makita.

This, bought one a few months ago to cut up pieces for a very high end hardwood floor. GREAT saw

 

[ncfh]

Don't ever believe Fastenal. lol.

Ever seen Glengarry Glen Ross? It's like that but without typewriters and mustaches. They will say anything to make a sale.

What's sadder are the engineers, PhDs, CEOs, et al, that fall for their BS, over and over again.

I beat Fastenal salesmen with McMaster catalogs when they dare to enter my lair.

Okay, okay I don't beat the Fastenal girl ..with ... catalogs ...

 

[Git]

Bosch GCM12SD

I have had a Dewalt DW708 since 2002. I have read that more recent models went downhill since then, but I do not have any firsthand experience - the DW708 performed flawlessly for me.

With that being said, the one thing I did not like about this design, is the way the sliding bars protrude out the back of the saw (the saw can not be used up against the wall)

I couldn't resist buying the 12" Bosch Glide from Lowes for $500 (10% movers coupon) when it was on sale for Christmas and I am very happy with it

I *believe* the Bosch comes with a 30 day guarantee if you do not like they way it performs, you can return it (label on the box)

I have a number of Festools, but I do not drink the Kool-Aid and I would definitely not buy the Kapex

 

[WilltheEngineer]

No saw is perfect, but a couple things to check if your looking at the Makita, the head move on each transition between the two sets of guild rods..usually in the middle of the cut on hardwoods(even slow, this still happens, but going slow reduces it), still need behind the saw room for guild rods, and I haven't tried it, but it looks like their vertical height on the 10" is limited to crown molding and shorter boards, because it use's the area of the saw in front of the arbor....

Kudos to Makita for thinking "out side of the box"...the design group/Company get points with me for that....but I think their system could have been simplified, including production...but I think the same for several products...

Also, most big box stores offer a 30-90 day return..

I'm sorry to be negative, but for most products, your Fastenal sales people are full of ****!!!!!