120V Welder Pops GFI Outlet

[bczygan]

Running a Lincoln 120V welder on a 20A circuit per the manual.

After a bead it pops the outlet.

Anyone run into this?

What's the fix?

Bill

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What do you mean "it pops the outlet"?

Is this on a dedicated circuit?

Edit: i missed the GFCI part.

Sounds like the welder may have a ground fault.

Is this GFCI new? If not, try changing it.

 

[pbon]

Mine was popping an AFCI/GFCI breaker. Not sure if a GFCI breaker would work better. I swapped in a regular breaker.

 

[PCustoms]

Mine repeatedly tripped the gfci on a different circuit somehow fried the coffee grinder that was plugged in upstairs.

Totally separate circuits, and happened 3 or so times. Issue went away when I finished my panel replacement. I suspect a shared neutral issue.

 

[sberry]

Is it tripping the breaker or gfci?

 

[bczygan]

Is it tripping the breaker or gfci?

The GFCI.

Bill

 

[Jay H 237]

My 120v Millermatic 135 that I bought new would often trip the GFCI. I wound up removing it and putting a standard outlet in. This is a dedicated 20amp line with only a single outlet too with the panel box 5' away. If the house gets sold I'll just put the GFCI back in.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Mine repeatedly tripped the gfci on a different circuit somehow fried the coffee grinder that was plugged in upstairs.

Totally separate circuits, and happened 3 or so times. Issue went away when I finished my panel replacement. I suspect a shared neutral issue.

what do you mean by it fried the coffee grinder?

that doesnt make sense

 

[PCustoms]

what do you mean by it fried the coffee grinder?

that doesnt make sense

Was using the welder on 120V, plugged into a GFCI in the basment. It kept tripping the GFCI (once every few hours) and I would reset it and keep going.

When I went upstairs I found the kitchen GFCI also tripped, and the coffee grinder no longer worked. Now that I think about it, a fan with digital controls also toasted

Kitchen and basment were new independent circuits tied into my old panel. Fan was a separate circuit.

All sorts of weird **** and dangerous wiring in this house, all since replaced. Not sure exactly what was going on, but there was definitely some odd feedback being created across the neutrals. 0 issues since.

 

[strutaeng]

My BIL lent me his Lincoln "Handy MIG" or something like for some fence posts I had to weld. My leads on my stick welder were not long enough.

I connected the like welder on a 50' extension chord on my patio cover GFCI and it worked...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Was using the welder on 120V, plugged into a GFCI in the basment. It kept tripping the GFCI (once every few hours) and I would reset it and keep going.

When I went upstairs I found the kitchen GFCI also tripped, and the coffee grinder no longer worked. Now that I think about it, a fan with digital controls also toasted

Kitchen and basment were new independent circuits tied into my old panel. Fan was a separate circuit.

All sorts of weird **** and dangerous wiring in this house, all since replaced. Not sure exactly what was going on, but there was definitely some odd feedback being created across the neutrals. 0 issues since.

Are you still using the same welder?

 

[PCustoms]

Are you still using the same welder?

Yes, but only on 120V one other time (dual voltage machine). I'm pretty confident it was an issue with neutral's in the house. I had found all sorts ofor issues that ultimately led to the decision to pull all new wire and put in the new panel. Grounds and neutrals were stuffed 2-4 (mixed) on the same buss, and the neutral lug was completely loose when I pulled the panel.

I could start a thread on all the issues. I don't want to detract from the OP, but yes, I had problems too.

Bill, what model Lincoln? Mine is 210mp

 

[PCustoms]

From the fun of it I Googled the issue I had, in that case the problem was fixed when the user replaced the gfci and corrected a loose ground.

Bill maybe check your grounds and neutrals back to the panel?

 

[bczygan]

I replaced the GFCI with a regular 20A duplex receptacle.

Haven't tried it out yet.

I will admit to having had it connected to a non grounded short brown extension cord. VERY thin wire, like you would plug just a table lamp into.

Will switch that out and try it.

Welder is a Lincoln 3200HD. 135A 120V flux core and MIG.

I'll check grounds and neutrals too.

Bill

 

[sberry]

What seemed like it was a good idea to plug it in to a lamp cord?

 

[ForceFed70]

You could also try replacing the GFCI outlet. Wouldn't be the 1st time that this problem can down to a bad or too sensitive outlet. Especially with welders - they create a ton of electrical noise.

 

[bczygan]

What seemed like it was a good idea to plug it in to a lamp cord?

LOL!!!

Another one of my not so bright ideas!

Couldn't wait to try it out, and didn't see a proper extension cord nearby.



Bill

 

[bczygan]

You could also try replacing the GFCI outlet. Wouldn't be the 1st time that this problem can down to a bad or too sensitive outlet. Especially with welders - they create a ton of electrical noise.

Done!

And I just picked up the needed supplies to run a dedicated 20A circuit and outlet from the panel.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Installed outlet.

Now to find short, beefy 3 prong extension cord.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Installed outlet.

Now to find short, beefy 3 prong extension cord.

Bill

Found a short heavy extension cord.

It still pops the breaker sometimes, but first it pops the plug in strip it is plugged into.

Going to get a slightly longer HD extension cord and plug directly into the 20A outlet I just installed.

Bill

 

[sberry]

I swear,,, sometimes the lights are on and not home. First a lamp cord, now a power strip.

 

[LX-Markham]

I swear,,, sometimes the lights are on and not home. First a lamp cord, now a power strip.

I think the expression you are looking for is: "lights are on but nobody's home".

I agree. Put the welder down and walk away.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Found a short heavy extension cord.

It still pops the breaker sometimes, but first it pops the plug in strip it is plugged into.

Going to get a slightly longer HD extension cord and plug directly into the 20A outlet I just installed.

Bill

why are you plugging a welder into a plug strip?

 

[RyanEricW]

Welders should always be plugged directly into the wall on it's own dedicated circuit if possible, never had an issue with 120v/240v welders this way

 

[Norcal]

Welders should always be plugged directly into the wall on it's own dedicated circuit if possible, never had an issue with 120v/240v welders this way

15A & 20A 120V receptacles are required to have GFCI protection in shops and garages with NO exceptions.

 

[checkthisout]

LOL @ lamp cord and power strip.

Come on Bill....fix the obvious.

Not only does the size and length of cord matter but how many outlets the circuit travels though before it reaches the outlet you're connecting it to as well as it's distance from the breaker panel.

If there is already a 100' run from the breaker panel the outlet and then you add in a power strip and lamp cord, you're not going to get good performance from the welder as well as creating voltage fluctuations that will pop sensitive protection devices.

 

[sberry]

50 ft of 14 will drop 8 volts on the way in with that machine juiced right up, about 4 on 50ft 12. The cord is 14 in the strip, that don't hurt it much but it spikes current way past that cheap breaker in it. It will tolerate some drop in the wire but it needs a 20A breaker unless you had it turned down to weld foil and that is iffy. I bought a nice 12 for welders and lost it along the way, bought a couple more on super sale at Menards, they are not quite as good but were 15$ for 25 maybe. I really had to look to find them. I carry 50 ft on my truck, I lose a little but 1 cord does it all.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, an extension cord of SO or SJO 12 gauge 3 conductors should be about the minimum for a 120 volt welder.

 

[bczygan]

At least I'm providing a fine object lesson for others.........!

Bill

 

[nadogail]

At least I'm providing a fine object lesson for others.........!

Bill

Sometimes we serve best as a bad example.

 

[strutaeng]

Is the power strip one of those that have surge protection? Are trying to protect the welder from power surges? Why did I not think of this before?

Welding in lightning/thunderstorms?

 

[checkthisout]

Something ironic about having a welder on an arc fault protected circuit.

 

[Jim greengo]

15A & 20A 120V receptacles are required to have GFCI protection in shops and garages with NO exceptions.

Depends on when/where the garage was built

 

[Norcal]

Depends on when/where the garage was built

If it’s existing and since the requirement has been in the NEC for many editions it is a bad idea and bad advice to remove it.

 

[J_J_]

A Lot of houses had 14 gauge wiring on all the circuits usually to lazy or cheap to run 12 even on a 20 amp circuit, let alone proper grounds.. either way best to Not use any welder or heavy equipment on GFCI plugs they often fail!! best is a dedicated circuit 20 amp plug and 12 gauge min. wiring with 20 to 30 amp breaker. Most of the welders I get in for repair are power and/ or user error on the home end.. My garage is all 12 gauge except for lights at 14 guage, welder and compressor on 220v with 8 gauge which is almost overkill compressors on 30 amp breaker and welder is on 50 amp as cycles and demand change so much depending on what I'm building..
No GFCI or powerstrips, surge protectors etc. 12g wiring 20 amp breaker 12 gauge ext cord not over 50 ft and you should be fine, depending on what your trying to weld with it and how long, welder has built in protection so dont worry about it just give it the power it wants.

 

[bczygan]

OK!

Installed a 20A circuit and outlet right next to the panel.

Bought a 25' 12AWG extension cord and plugged in the welder.

All is good!

Bill

 

[J_J_]

Awesome, Happy Welding!

 

[Falcon67]

FWIW - I use a Hobart 140. There are no 120v outlets in the shop that are not headed by a regular home center 20A GFCI. Never had an issue welding in the shop using any outlet. No trips at all in the last 7 years since built.

 

[bczygan]

Wondering if it wasn't the GFI at all.

Thinking of switching the outlet out.

Bill

 

[Low277]

GFCI receptacle does not trip from overload. And the days of nuisance tripping on GFCIs I think are long past. I believe a standard GFCI will trip at about 4-5 milli-amps unbalance. They make GFCI receptacles for special loads that have a slightly higher trip rating. About 10 milli-amps I think.