125 or 200 amp service?

[Yotaforce]

I am about to begin my electric supply purchasing for my new shop (30x40x12) and am curious as to whether I should go with 125 or 200 amp breaker box. I will only have three 220v outlets, 18 110v outlets, and 18 4' flourescent fixtures. My compressor, future lift, and welder will be on 220v, and all of my 110v will be normal power tools and equipment. Nothing that will run constantly. I know I could just play it safe with the 200amp, and not see the lights dim when I crank up the chop saw or the air kicks on, but would that really be a problem with the 125amp box? Also, does this make a difference to the power service from the power company when they hook up my meter? Thanks.

 

[bluesman2a]

As somebody who just went through this: Get the 200, you won't be sorry.

Also in some of the research I did here: there are two types of the Square-D boxes available, the homeline and the QO series. The Homeline pinches a "fin" to connect in. The QO series positively engages a "bar" and wraps around it. For heavy load/high duty cycle applications, the QO series is a better option.

Your mileage may vary, but that's what I opted for based on what I learned here.

 

[mike944]

I think 125 is more than enough. Others may disagree, you can never really have enough power, but unless you're planning to run some extremely large machinery, 125A is plenty. Remember, 125A is the rating at 220v. You really have 250A at 110V available.

Unless you're planning to use electric heat, and a welder, the compressor, the lift and several power tools all at the same time, you shouldn't come close to the limit. You'd probably need several people all working at the same time to use that kind of power. Besides, if you were really using that much power, the electric bill would be really scary......


There's certainly nothing wrong with upgrading to 200A. The only real difference is cost. Price them both out, and make your decision based on that.

However, you should definitely figure out how many separate circuits you want to run. All panels have some kind of limit to the number of breakers they can fit. The 125A panels are going to have a lower limit. You may have too many breakers for a 125 panel.

 

[Junkman]

Once you purchase the panel, there is no additional cost, so the 200 amp panel is a no brainer. The difference in cost between the 125 amp and the 200 amp panel is less than $50. I doubt that $50 is going to make that much of a difference in the project.

 

[Yotaforce]

Well I was looking at them at Lowes the other day and the 125amp with 16 circuits was $25, while the 200 was around $100. Just didn't know the real difference.

 

[Franz©]

DO NOT PUT A HOMEOWNER GRADE PANEL ANYPLACE!

Go with QO series or forget it and use a friggin candle. I've seen 3 homeowner grade panels aec themselves apart where the breaker engages the bus.

 

[bluesman2a]

Well I was looking at them at Lowes the other day and the 125amp with 16 circuits was $25, while the 200 was around $100. Just didn't know the real difference.

Be careful here, I was falling into the same trap. The really cheap ones typically do not have a main breaker in them, they only have lugs. Not sure what your setup is like, but I would imagine you NEED the breaker in it. The $100 sounds about right. The 40 slot QO series 200 Amp at Lowes/Home Depot is about $150. If nothing else, get yourself a bigger panel so you have "room to grow later". If nothing else, you'll be thankful you have the extra spaces later when you're trying to figure out where you're going to put all the extra/unintended stuff when you figure out what you REALLY need in a year or so.

 

[RAYJAY]

just go for the 2oo amp do not even look at the 125 panel and as others have said here the only panel to buy is the square D QO line. as Franz said I too have seen the homeline box fry also

 

[PAToyota]

I think 125 is more than enough. Others may disagree... but unless you're planning to run some extremely large machinery, 125A is plenty. ...

Unless you're planning to use electric heat, and a welder, the compressor, the lift and several power tools all at the same time....

All depends on what you are using or plan to use... My TIG is a 100amp 220V circuit by itself. Plasma is 50amp 220V and compressor is 40amp 220V. Add in lights and some other incidentals and you are right up there.

And I agree with the others on going SquareD QO over the Homeline stuff. When it comes down to it, spending a couple extra hundred up front is going to be worth it over time. In the overall cost of the shop, the difference between 125amp and 200amp will be long forgotten a year or two from now.

 

[bluesman2a]

In the overall cost of the shop, the difference between 125amp and 200amp will be long forgotten a year or two from now.

But it WILL be remembered fondly EVERY time you have to add a new ckt and think to yourself "Damn, I sure am glad that I added that bigger box with more capacity!"

 

[dbandgb]

Go To An Electrical Supply Store. They Have Good Quality & Are Helpful & Equal In Price. I Just Did This 3 Months Ago.

 

[woodturner9]

Also in some of the research I did here: there are two types of the Square-D boxes available, the homeline and the QO series.

I won't use the Square-D panels anymore, for a couple of reasons:
Quality - Square-D breakers have shown a higher failure rate in recent testing.

Safety - The Square-D panels have exposed lugs for the service cable. It's not hard to inadvertent touch a screwdriver or wire across the service feed.

I've been using GE (Cutler Hammer) panels more recently, and highly recommend them. As a bonus, they generally are more available and cost a little less, too.

 

[MXtras]

The Square-D defective breakers should be off the shelf by now. There was a big stink about this earlier this year - they had several batches that were defective and they voluntarily recalled several thousand shipments. I would not let this be a black eye to their quality - they build good stuff.

Go with 200A.

Scott

 

[Flatmotor]

Also be aware that there are a lot of counterfit QO breakers out there. I have received two seperate alerts about this in the past year. Bill

The Square-D defective breakers should be off the shelf by now. There was a big stink about this earlier this year - they had several batches that were defective and they voluntarily recalled several thousand shipments. I would not let this be a black eye to their quality - they build good stuff.

Go with 200A.

Scott

 

[Charles (in GA)]

My shop is set up with a 200 amp main lug Siemens panel, 40 full sized breaker spaces. A panel this large is a dream to work in, you have lots of room to run wires and make connections, and lots of room for additional breakers. I didn't use a main breaker panel, as the disconnect/main breaker, is on the opposite side of the wall (outside) with a mandoor next to the panel, you can actually stand in the doorway and touch both panels.

I don't like Square D panels, the ones I've dealt with had little, short, ground and neutral bars that were very difficult to get wires into. The Siemens panel has full height ground and neutral bars, nothing jammed together.

The difference in initial cost of 125 amp vs 200 amp is minimal in the big scheme of things, you have a large shop with the potential of having lots of wiring, boxes and circuits, so why not spend a few bucks up front and provide for the future. You also should look at it from the resale angle, if I were to walk in your garage as a prospective buyer, the tiny 125 amp panel would be a turnoff for me.

Charles

 

[SteveU]

Definitly go with the 200A. At some point in the future you may have a buddy or 2 over helping you on a project running various things like welders, plasma, etc. while you are running an air grinder or sander & the compressor kicks in. Then figure in enough juice to run ac in the summer to keep it comfortable enough to work, lighting, a small fridge for refreshments, etc, & you would be crowding the smaller panel pretty hard. Better to have the capacity to expand than to just get what you figure you need now & cheaper in the long run too.

 

[V-10 Killer]

I love seeing this question come up. It's like asking an American if he wants a big SUV or a BIG SUV
Don't forget about wire sizing/pricing when you factor the price of the boxes.

 

[Bevis]

200 amp panel is what I'll be putting in. Now to make up my mind on brand.

 

[bigdav160]

Don't forget about wire sizing/pricing when you factor the price of the boxes.

I think that is the most relevant response to this thread.

I know I could just play it safe with the 200amp, and not see the lights dim when I crank up the chop saw or the air kicks on, but would that really be a problem with the 125amp box?

I'm not an electrician but I don't think the main breaker has much to do with that. The breaker is protecting the supply wiring. A main breaker that is too large for the wiring can possibly cause fire.

200 amp is fine, but what gauge wire do you have to supply the service?

Are your utlities underground or overhead?

How far away is the transformer to the building?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I think that is the most relevant response to this thread.



I'm not an electrician but I don't think the main breaker has much to do with that. The breaker is protecting the supply wiring. A main breaker that is too large for the wiring can possibly cause fire.

200 amp is fine, but what gauge wire do you have to supply the service?

Are your utlities underground or overhead?

How far away is the transformer to the building?

Yotaforce did say the power company would be installing a meter. It sounds as if it will be a shop only meter (though he didn't say) and if that is the case, the amount of 200 amp wire that he will have to provide from the meter to the panelboard, will be a minor consideration in the installation.

A 200 amp meter socket might cost more than a 100 amp, but by very little, and its possible that the power company will provide one. Most locales require outside disconnects, if so, a 100 vs a 200 will again be a minimal difference.

The power company may or may not charge for their part of the work, and they will most certainly charge more for the larger service, but then again, they are hoping to sell more electricity also, so their charges to you may not vary significantly.

All in all, its difficult to justify the smaller service when you have a one time savings of probably no more than $300 to $500 total, which is a tiny percentage of the total cost of the building, compared to the benefits of having the larger, more capable service.

Charles

 

[Yotaforce]

My underground cable is approx. 100' from the transformer. I'm not an electrician either, but I have worked for one in the past and can easily install all of my interior components. It is just the main feed lines I have no experince with (hence the question at hand).

 

[W-Cummins]

All depends on what you are using or plan to use... My TIG is a 100amp 220V circuit by itself. Plasma is 50amp 220V and compressor is 40amp 220V. Add in lights and some other incidentals and you are right up there.

Yep and none of them are using that much current! I bet your tig welder would run just fine on a 50 amp breaker I know that mine did, and it's a 100 amp larger machine ! The air compressor (5hp??) runs at a fla of 26amps and most of the time no where near that high... The plasma cutter probably also never sees 50 amps either .

So even if your running them all at the same time 125 amps would be just fine. REMEMBER that your whole place is probably running off a 12-15kva transformer IF your lucky! The nice thing about a 200 amp box is they will hold more breakers than the smaller one. You could get a 200 amp box and put a 125 amp main breaker in it...

William....

 

[PAToyota]

You are more than likely correct in that, William.

Probably what does me the most good is that the service cables were sized according to the C320 meter and dual 200amp panels...

And I agree that the 200amp box gave me enough room to lay things out nice and orderly!

 

[boiler7904]

When in doubt always go with the bigger panel unless the power company is going to hit you with a commercial service fee or some other large start up / monthly fee. You never know when you'll want another circuit for lights, power, or another piece of equipment.

I'd also go with anything but a residential grade panel. Stub a couple of extra conduit into the attic if it's a recessed panel in a finished wall. Again, adding circuits will be easier.