12pt Metric Sockets, useless?

[PhysicsDude]

I had lost my 3/8 drive shallow 13mm socket, and so I ordered one online.

When in came in, I realized I had accidentally ordered a 12pt socket, rather than 6pt.

What are metric 12pt sockets useful for (in the US)? I have a set of 12pt SAE sockets, which I mostly use for square head stuff, but I can't think of any time I would need a 12pt metric socket.

When would one encounter a need for a 12pt 13mm socket?

 

[Wamsutta]

I think some of the Honda head bolts are 12 point.

 

[Millwrong]

Jeeps use 12 points on the front wheel bearings, and I'm fairly certain I used one on an F-150 pinion flange a while back.

 

[Not1044]

For square head you would use an 8 point socket. Is that what you meant? Otherwise 6 and 12 point are interchangeable with 6 point providing more strength and 12 allowing more positions. Also 12 is needed on some specialty 12 point fasteners.

 

[rijndael]

Lots of current uses are listed here:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-186329.html

 

[Tonyuk]

They're used on 13mm metric sized bolts of course....

Seriously though the majority of my chrome sockets are 12 point past 16mm or so, below are 6 point. They came from an old set from a shop called Halfords. I have a few larger 12 point impact sockets for stuff such as driveshaft bolts etc.. as well as impact e-torx.

Head bolts, driveshaft bolts, and plenty of others use 12 point head fasteners.

 

[Mr_B]

I have 10mm to 36mm in 12pt draper japan, getting close to 3 decades old, still gets used and nice quality too. it got uses ...

 

[WWheeler]

I had lost my 3/8 drive shallow 13mm socket, and so I ordered one online.

When in came in, I realized I had accidentally ordered a 12pt socket, rather than 6pt.

What are metric 12pt sockets useful for (in the US)? I have a set of 12pt SAE sockets, which I mostly use for square head stuff, but I can't think of any time I would need a 12pt metric socket.

When would one encounter a need for a 12pt 13mm socket?

I've never had any issues rounding fasteners with a 12pt socket or wrench. Unless the fastener is rusty I don't really give much thought to 6pt or 12 pt though I tend to grab 12 pt more often just because they are easier / save time getting the socket or box-end wrench on the fastener in tight spots. My 6pt sockets/wrenches get used much less often.

BTW, 8pt sockets are used for square fasteners. 12pt are for the same hex fasteners as a 6pt and they also fit 12pt fasteners which a 6pt can't. Although it can be done in a pinch there's no good reason to put a 12pt on a square fastener as it doesn't actually fit correctly - the flats are at the wrong angle - and could round the fastener and/or damage the socket.

 

[4xdog]

Like others have said, years ago (say 40 or so when I started buying my own Craftsman stuff) a typical on-sale socket set was 12 point. Six point (as I recall) were often a separate set of sockets, not the kits with wrench, extensions, and breaker bar.

The idea (if I remember right) was that they'd find engagement easier (yeah, that's pretty week I admit) and that they'd sorta work on square nuts.

 

[ReggieR]

Unless the fastener is rusty I don't give much thought to 6pt or 12 pt though I tend to grab 12 pt more often just because they are easier / save time getting the socket or box-end wrench on the fastener in tight spots. My 6pt sockets/wrenches get used much less often. I've never had any issues rounding fasteners with a 12pt socket or wrench.

Neither has any other normal wrencher. it's fantasy land of TheJournal. Notice never a mention of a problem with using an open combo 12 pt or DBE 12 pt ??? HMMMMMM ?
Granted, the majority of my sockets are 6 pt....just because but I have some 12's and sets of turbo sockets, plasma cutters and oxy acet of any of those fail. They never do.
Probably one of the best tools a young mechanic who likes messing with old stuff can own is a hammer actuated impact in 3/8 and 1/2. Proto or something decent.Any small engine or motorcycle guy will sing praises to those little gems.The turbo sockets are up there in price and quality but that bolt WILL come out....or SNAP.I seldom break a bolt other than a crappy lil 1/4 or 5/16 **** quality fastener. When whatever it was holding gets out of the way( valve cover, fuel pump-water pump etc) the thing will almost always spin out with vice grips.If not I break out the Smurfs( Miller) and weld a nut to the thing.It'll be out in a jiffy

 

[WWheeler]

Forgot to mention that my impacts are all 6pt for good and obvious reasons, but for hand wrenching I tend to go with a 12pt just because they are a little bit easier/faster and don't give it a second thought unless it's a smaller size rusty or damaged fastener or one that was evidently overtorqued by King Kong's bigger brother. I'll only pull but so hard on a 12pt socket/wrench to free a smaller fastener before I know when I should grab a 6pt instead. Larger fasteners a 12pt is fine for heavy pulling. All of my 3/4 dr sockets are 12pt.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Head bolts is the obvious one, rod/main bearings as well. Some 12 points are sprinkled in kia A/C brackets and lower oil pans. Flywheel and pressure plate bolts are often 12 point. Jeep wheel bearings, MB and BMW like them for axle nuts, sometimes to hold the control arm bolts to the knuckles too. Drive shaft bolts as well, domestics and japanese. Some newer stuff (BMW and nissan IIRC) use 12 point plugs for whatever reason.

I'm sure there are more I could remember. Now most are going to torx/inverted torx nonsense, plus all the bit fasteners which are equally foolish. Torx head fasteners are a huge pain when they hold in a 15yo wheel bearing in the rust belt. I get them out, it's just stupid when 6 point almost universally would fit in the same space.



Number one 12 point metric application? Hammer a 12 point 19mm (or 3/4 ) onto most wheel locks to remove them. Then the press and the bearing splitter separate the two, and you have 3 more to go. I buy cheapo ones as disposables.



EDIT: Just completed my 12 point 1/2 drive metric collection, 10-32 deep and shallow. Would like to get to 36, but that will involve deal hunting as I'm not paying $40 a socket from proto/williams/etc.

 

[rijndael]

MB and BMW like them for axle nuts

Toyota too

 

[Tanro]

No you use them on 12 point fasteners

 

[James-W]

I have both 6 point and 12 point sockets, both work very well. I prefer to use a 6 point if I can, but many times, especially in tight places, it isn't so easy to do so. But the 12 point sockets work just fine so I have not found it to be an issue.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Neither has any other normal wrencher. it's fantasy land of TheJournal.

This is funny. I really enjoy this place but in over 40 years of using sockets I never knew I was taking a chance on whatever I was working on spontaneously combusting because I was using a 12 pt. socket. Until I started hanging out here!

I'm not a pro wrencher and don't need to work on rusty stuff very often, but I've never had a problem--maybe partially because I've always had access to good quality sockets like Proto, Plomb, SnapOn, and old American =V= Craftsman.

I did round off a bolt head on the cover for the oil filter on a CB750 custom, but that thing was so soft I think a 6 point would have done it too. And like Reggie said, a hammer type impact driver is the way to go on stuff like that.

 

[homebuilt burner]

Detroit Diesel series 60 uses metric 12 points

 

[Spencerg23]

Driveshaft bolts, dodge starters, lots of stuff uses them actually.

 

[Ign]

Forgot to mention that my impacts are all 6pt for good and obvious reasons, but for hand wrenching I tend to go with a 12pt just because they are a little bit easier/faster and don't give it a second thought unless it's a smaller size rusty or damaged fastener or one that was evidently overtorqued by King Kong's bigger brother. I'll only pull but so hard on a 12pt socket/wrench to free a smaller fastener before I know when I should grab a 6pt instead. Larger fasteners a 12pt is fine for heavy pulling. All of my 3/4 dr sockets are 12pt.

This. For hand wrenching it don't matter!

Ford d/s bolts are 12mm 12pt

 

[Ign]

In fact almost ALL combination wrenches are 12pt on the box end, so why are we concerned exactly??

 

[ssdave]

In fact almost ALL combination wrenches are 12pt on the box end, so why are we concerned exactly??

As stated by several posters already, it's an urban legend that has originated and solidified on the garage journal. In the real world, 12 point sockets and wrenches have worked well for years, and continue to do so.

The only possible source I can think of for this belief in the shortcomings of 12 point sockets is that cheap sockets that came out in the 70's to 90's tend to stretch out and slip. After the initial failures the manufacturers switched from 12 point that they had copied from the quality brands to 6 point, with walls about twice as thick. Now, they didn't round out as easily, but they wouldn't fit anywhere with tight clearance.

As the cheap manufacturers have stepped up their quality a bit, they have thinned the 6 point walls down till they're almost as thin as quality 12 point. But, they continue to make 6 point, and the buyers/users of the lower quality tools perpetuate the myth of fragile 12 points. Not sure where they get that experience to judge from, since all the new manufactured stuff is 6 point. Might be from used, older 12 point or just residual experience from previous sets?

 

[HighwayTrout]

[emoji115]What he said


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Tallpilot]

In fact almost ALL combination wrenches are 12pt on the box end, so why are we concerned exactly??

If this question actually desires an answer it would have something to do with off-axis engagement increasing the chance of round off.

 

[NUTTSGT]

This. For hand wrenching it don't matter!

Ford d/s bolts are 12mm 12pt

Yep, wanted to see if anybody was going to mention that. . . . and generally can be a PITA to remove.

 

[Professional Tool User]

There are 12 point fasteners out there, but they aren't that common. Unless you're dealing with a regular bolt that's caked in mud, I don't see you having any problems with the socket slipping.

 

[Gmonkee]

Its bad when a 12pt socket is feared for possibly ruining a bolt head but a ----grip or FD open end will chew them up and are highly touted. Even spline drive tools tend to damage them in frequent service areas.

But I guess we all choose our demons to battle.

 

[dnschmidt]

If you use a 12pt socket you're taking your life into your hands. However, if you use a 12pt box wrench all is well with the world. I'm old and senile but what's wrong with this picture. I live in Arizona. I don't believe I've ever seen a rusty bolt. Where do such things exist?

 

[bob15]

Just use that 12 point socket like you intended to and move on in your life.

 

[unslow1]

I can't believe how often this keeps coming back up. I have 6pts but prefer 12pts unless I fear it stripping. Most mechanics I know use use 12pts unless it's a problem bolt.

 

[ReggieR]

In fact almost ALL combination wrenches are 12pt on the box end, so why are we concerned exactly??

My point exactly. I've been involved with some of the fastest 1/4 mile cars ever glued together. When I asked for a 5/8 socket I didn't much give a damn.......as long as it said 5/8
Did they ever make 24 points ? Maybe I'll buy some sets ! How much per week ?

 

[plinker]

Up here, rust can and will change the size and shape of a bolt/nut to where a 12pt socket is mostly useless. Surface area/contact area increases as you go up is hex size to the point where is get to be moot issue. IME, this is 3/4 or larger.

I use 6pt sockets most of the time, but if need be a wrench is used. The difference (for me) is I can put a lot more torque on a socket then a wrench, so the wrench being 12pt is a non-issue or there are bigger problems (rust, already rounded, ete..).

Spline is something that irritates me as is seems too easy to round stuff off very easily if the wrench is not engaged on the fastener just so.

 

[Mgdoug3]

If it's a quality socket, I don't care if it's 6 or 12 point. I bought a set of metric 12 point impact sockets mainly for wheel bearings. The only time I have seen a 12 point round off a nut was when I saw some one in a shop used a 9/16 12 point when he should have used a 14mm. A 6 point 14mm took it right off.

 

[mikegt4]

Almost all of my standard depth sockets are 12pt and I don't see them as second rate. They work just fine on both 6 or 12 pt. bolt heads. I will use a 6 pt. on damaged, rusty or over tight bolts but normally I use my 12 points exclusively.

Most of my tools, sockets included, were purchased 50 or so years ago when sockets had a lot of points and ratchets had few teeth, 36T was considered a fine tooth ratchet.

 

[kythri]

This. For hand wrenching it don't matter!

Ford d/s bolts are 12mm 12pt

Yup.

Also just recently found them on the front CV shafts of my Expedition when I replaced them.

I will admit, since I've got both 6pt and 12pt sockets, I'll more commonly use 6pt stuff. That said, I've used my 12pt stuff pretty extensively, and have never had an issue.

 

[JimNC]

I have a mix, but prefer 6 point because that’s mostly what I have. On the farm, where various workers have used various inappropriate tools to loosen or tighten nuts and bolts over decades, I do find that a 6point gets a better grip on it.

I also own some combination wrenches with a 6 point box end, but only a very few.

 

[Tallpilot]

...

BTW, 8pt sockets are used for square fasteners. 12pt are for the same hex fasteners as a 6pt and they also fit 12pt fasteners which a 6pt can't. Although it can be done in a pinch there's no good reason to put a 12pt on a square fastener as it doesn't actually fit correctly - the flats are at the wrong angle - and could round the fastener and/or damage the socket.

This needs to be mentioned more. Not too long ago a guy broke the box end of a wrench and started a thread here. Upon questioning it was on a 4 point fastener.

In the field you do what you must but don’t be surprised if something breaks. The stress ends up on the weak points instead of where it belongs.

 

[Wamsutta]

This needs to be mentioned more. Not too long ago a guy broke the box end of a wrench and started a thread here. Upon questioning it was on a 4 point fastener.

In the field you do what you must but don’t be surprised if something breaks. The stress ends up on the weak points instead of where it belongs.

I can use a 7/16 12-point in place of a 3/8 8-point, but then again, the 12-point I'm using is a Snap-on and they fit like a gnat's ***.

 

[mbshop]

I had both 12 and 6 point sockets. So I just chose what I felt I needed at the moment. But yes, in my years I did have more issues with 12 than 6 point. Usually in a stressful situation. As to wrenches, I just didn't use them if I thought there would be an issue.

 

[WittHay]

The main advantage of a 6-point is the time saved especially in 3/8 drive sizes. 12-points used in deep sockets or with extensions along with poor quality oem or rusty fasteners increase the chance of rounding a fastener. So why bother with the 12-point just grab the 6-point socket to begin with.

12-point sockets need good quality fasteners, not tapered oil pan drain bolts or wheel bolts that are so shallow a socket barely fits on them. Somewhere along the line things changed, 60's and 70's mechanics used mainly 12-point. I bought a Snap-on apprentice tool set as a teenager in the 80's both the SAE and metric 3/8 drive sockets were 6-point

 

[d.mcfarland]

Torx head fasteners are a huge pain when they hold in a 15yo wheel bearing in the rust belt. I get them out, it's just stupid when 6 point almost universally would fit in the same space.

On our Jeep I ended up praying before placing the e torx on each bolt and applying pressure. Work on all of them somehow!