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12V Cordless Drill + Car Battery

nexum1919

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Apologies if this has been discussed on here before (search did not return anything useful)

I see lots of 'tool only' ads on craigslist for 12V drills for around 20-30 bucks, DeWalt, Makita etc.
And I was wondering if I can permanently attach a regular 14 gauge extension cord and a pair of battery clamps to a 12V cordless drill, permanently getting rid of the battery. This enables me to use the car's battery for power. Even the car's battery is dead, I can always use my own car's battery.

Sounds like a bulletproof plan, but will it work? Are those '12V' drills are really 12V? I know some of them are advertised as 12V, but in fact they are 10.8 volts.

I already have regular drop light with a 12V bulb installed in it, and replaced the plug with a pair of battery clamps. Works great. Also I have a 12V soldering iron, again works great for small wiring fixes. (no need to fire up the butane iron)So, why not a drill? Not just for drilling but sanding and wire brushing

It'd be great for parking lot repairs where there's no access to an outlet.

I don't get to use a drill too often outside the shop, so the batteries don't get used too often and I hate ending up with a dead battery in the middle of drilling a bolt.

And not just a drill but a grinder, impact wrench, etc. We can possibly come up with a full array of power tools that are wired to use the car's battery for power.
 
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Brandon_K

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Yup, made one a while ago for on-trail repairs. Since 12v is "old and outdated", people nearly give them away on CL. 14.4's also work. With the vehicle running, you're putting out 13.5+ volts anyhow.

If you plan on doing an array of tools, you might want to check into Anderson Power Products, http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-sb.html Their 2 pole 50 amp connectors are small and extremely rugged. This way you would only need one set of battery clamps. I use the 175A versions on my Jeep for battery jump cables. I have a connector mounted under the bumper, a 15' set of cables and a 20' cable, all with 175A ends. If it's a long jump, I get out the extension cable and I never have to open my hood.
 

Stuey

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12V means "12V maximum" and refers to a 10.8V nominal battery pack. Some manufacturers tried to go the 10.8V route but others claiming 12V forced them all to advertise as 12V with a "maximum" asterisk.

In other words, I wouldn't try it, although it *could* work.
 

Stuey

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Today's cordless 12V Li-ion tools are 10.8V. Not sure about older 12V cordless, but I agree that they were probably true 12V units.
 

tonydanzah

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12V means "12V maximum" and refers to a 10.8V nominal battery pack. Some manufacturers tried to go the 10.8V route but others claiming 12V forced them all to advertise as 12V with a "maximum" asterisk.

In other words, I wouldn't try it, although it *could* work.

why wouldn't you try it? When my dads old skil 12v battery pack died I ran a 14v battery pack that fit in for years as a junkyard drill. Finally died in college.
 

Stuey

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b/c I don't trust the tools these days to exceed their designed operating parameters.

In a pinch I suppose a 10.8V drill can handle 13V or more, but it'll overheat, spin too fast for its gearing, or both. I also don't like that there's no overload/over-current protection with such a car battery setup. These days that functionality is provided by the tool batteries themselves.

All I'm saying is that personally I don't think the personal and monetary risks are worth the potential benefits.

Alternatively, it would probably be safer to power a 12V drill through a car adapter.
 
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Brandon_K

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Ahhh, I gotcha. Since we were talking about cheap old drills on CL, Li-Ion tools never crossed my mind.

I don't use my 12v battery clamp drill anymore. The Milwaukee 28v made that a thing of the past. I swear I charge the battery in that thing once a month and it's golden.
 

tonydanzah

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b/c I don't trust the tools these days to exceed their designed operating parameters.

In a pinch I suppose a 10.8V drill can handle 13V or more, but it'll overheat, spin too fast for its gearing, or both. I also don't like that there's no overload/over-current protection with such a car battery setup. These days that functionality is provided by the tool batteries themselves.

All I'm saying is that personally I don't think the personal and monetary risks are worth the potential benefits.

Alternatively, it would probably be safer to power a 12V drill through a car adapter.

you lost me, what do you invisioning happening to drill that has few extra volts and amps running through it? Do you see it slowly picking up speed until its going so fast that it rips loose from you hands and stays on even though you released the trigger? Then watch in horror as it walks arcoss the room and drills into a gun safe (reguardless in you own one) takes out a pistol and shoots at you?:lol_hitti
 
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Brandon_K

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Alternatively, it would probably be safer to power a 12V drill through a car adapter.

Why? Just because it's fused?

you lost me, what do you invisioning happening to drill that has few extra volts and amps running through it?

I'm pretty sure Stuey is just saying that it will destroy the drill. It's not a whole lot different than running a 208v only motor on 240v. That motor is going to live a much shorter life, not pull out a .40 and pop you ;)

I'll still say I had no issues with my old school 12v Dewalt that I picked up on CL for $10, no batteries, no charger. Popped the case, soldered a few wires, boom done.
 

Stuey

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I imagine that the worst thing that could happen is the drill destroys itself quickly. The motor/brushes/gears/bearings/shafting could overheat, the tolerances could go to hell, etc.

Worst case scenario = destructive failure. Best case scenario = greatly reduced tool life if the tool is run at full speed, and don't forget that we're talking about used drills that the owners put up for sale w/o the original batteries.

It would probably be a slightly better idea to hook up a 14.4V drill to a car battery. I would definitely rather undervolt than overvolt a second hand dril of unknown history.

I recommended a cig lighter plug adapter since you can find regulated black box power supplies fairly easily. It just seems to be a more controllable power source than a standalone car battery.
 

dsan

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you lost me, what do you invisioning happening to drill that has few extra volts and amps running through it? Do you see it slowly picking up speed until its going so fast that it rips loose from you hands and stays on even though you released the trigger? Then watch in horror as it walks arcoss the room and drills into a gun safe (reguardless in you own one) takes out a pistol and shoots at you?:lol_hitti

Damn that is funny. Having a rough week and that was a good laugh. Thanks.
 

Danglerb

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I've got a bunch of battery operated stuff that I still like, but not enough to spend the money for a new battery pack, pigtails so I can use some generic battery source sounds like a great idea. Video guys used to make belt packs of those big round lead acid batteries. Maybe stick with a different type of connector for each voltage range?
 

Danglerb

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Two cents on likely failure modes for over voltage.

Motors, slowly get too hot, maybe longer term damage to brushes from higher currents.

Electronics, some ****, some long term decreased life. OTOH some variable speed stuff I bet might work great with a higher source voltage, if operated mostly at the highest power setting.
 
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bradleykd

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a car battery has a whole **** load more current going through it than that little battery pack... I wouldnt hold the trigger on that thing too long, or it's gonna get HOT...
 

Brandon_K

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a car battery has a whole **** load more current going through it than that little battery pack... I wouldnt hold the trigger on that thing too long, or it's gonna get HOT...

Motors will only draw as much power as they were built to draw, with the exception of a locked rotor. This is why the battery packs don't go flat in minutes, why your compressor doesn't trip your main breaker and why the electric fan in your vehicle doesn't take off like a helicopter.

You could hook a thousand car batteries up (in parallel) and the only thing that is going to happen to the drill is that it can run 1000 times longer than on a single car battery.
 

Danglerb

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Where a car battery vs nicad pack makes a difference is in a dead short, both will be fairly nasty, but the car battery will be nastier. This is true of even the smaller lead acid batteries like the Gates sealed cells, which will do tricks like melt beer cans.
 

Brandon_K

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Where a car battery vs nicad pack makes a difference is in a dead short, both will be fairly nasty, but the car battery will be nastier. This is true of even the smaller lead acid batteries like the Gates sealed cells, which will do tricks like melt beer cans.

Even without a fuse, the 14ga wire that one would be using to connect it to the battery, would become a "fusible link" well before the tool melted down in your hands.
 
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N

nexum1919

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I think I'll go with a 12 gauge extension cord (preferably an extra flexible type), a quality set of battery clamps, mini fuse holder to install inside the positive clamp handle (that's my usual practice - I tape the fuse holder inside or on the clamp, much safer that way, since there is virtually no amount of non-fused wiring) and a female 2 prong POLARIZED outlet. I'll install a piece of 'whip' wire to the tool with a POLARIZED male plug at the end(kinda like the whip hose for air tools) And I'm imagining that I'd be able to cut the part of the handle that the battery usually attaches, saving some weight and making the tool more compact. Or maybe leave the battery cavity intact and tuck the whip wire in there during storage...
Altough I'd like to keep the extension long, I'm afraid there'll be too much of a voltage drop anything over 10ft of wire for a 12V D system. Using a 8 gauge wire would be expensive and pretty tough to lug around.

I'm thinking about the fuse... Should I just go ahead and fuse it just for protecting the wire itself (30A). OR consider the fact that the regular car battery is pretty much non-regulating, if you can ask for it, it'll give it to you (I mean you can weld with it!) and the fact that most power tool battery packs are naturally self regulated (even if you short them, they'll not give you 200 amps even for a split second).
I wonder if I'll be blowing the 30 amp fuse everytime a drill bit gets stuck. I think the tool companies don't put too many regulating circuits inside the actual tool itself, since they design it into the battery pack... Maybe a circuit breaker would be a better idea?

A little tip: You can get a fluorescent 12V bulb that'll fit a regular 110V household bulb housing from several solar power system providers. And with a cheap drop light assembly from harborfreight and a pair of equally cheap clamps you can have an instant emergency drop light that'll stay on for at least 40 hours with a typical car battery...
 
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Brandon_K

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A little tip: You can get a fluorescent 12V bulb that'll fit a regular 110V household bulb housing from several solar power system providers. And with a cheap drop light assembly from harborfreight and a pair of equally cheap clamps you can have an instant emergency drop light that'll stay on for at least 40 hours with a typical car battery...

RV dealers too.

As far as the fuse, meh, I would pass but that's just me. I'm sure most of us here are smart enough to let go of the trigger if it locks. Worst case, set the clutch to the last setting (the one before the clutch is bypassed entirely). If I had to, I would install a self resetting CB inline.
 

rsanter

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whats the worst that could happen?
the drill blows up throwing sharapenal all over and catches on fire.
thus catching you and the car on fire

ir perhaps the motor burn up

bob
 

flowman

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Hey guys, just found this thread--I've been thinking about getting a bare 12v impact driver and wiring it up to run of my cruiser battery, and I bought one cheap on ebay (no battery or charger), but it's got three terminals to connect to the battery. It's a Hitachi WH10DFL--does anyone on this forum know where I can find info on which terminal is which? I rigged up spade connectors on a 14 ga extension cord, and I'm getting 11.8v to the terminals when the clamps are connected to the battery, but the tool doesn't run when I connect to any pair of terminals. My 14v Dewault's only have two battery terminals, I was really surprised to find 3.

Thanks for any help you can provide, I know this is a long shot. Really enjoying this forum!

Steve
 

itguy08

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Hey guys, just found this thread--I've been thinking about getting a bare 12v impact driver and wiring it up to run of my cruiser battery, and I bought one cheap on ebay (no battery or charger), but it's got three terminals to connect to the battery. It's a Hitachi WH10DFL--does anyone on this forum know where I can find info on which terminal is which? I rigged up spade connectors on a 14 ga extension cord, and I'm getting 11.8v to the terminals when the clamps are connected to the battery, but the tool doesn't run when I connect to any pair of terminals. My 14v Dewault's only have two battery terminals, I was really surprised to find 3.

Thanks for any help you can provide, I know this is a long shot. Really enjoying this forum!

Steve
Check this post here:
http://dewaltownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=386.0

Looks like the end one is Negative and the one that's the opposite of the others is positive.
 

jsaw

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I have a very old skill 3 volt screwdriver that the batteries went bad. It is so old that I couldnt buy batteries for it any more. It was headed for the trah can. I figured I had nothing to loose so I wired it to run off 12 volts . I dont use it very often, but when I do use it, It runs a lot faster, and it has not burned up.
 

Greatbear

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I've done this with an old B&D 12V NiCd drill with success. Converting to external 12V works fine for NiCd and NiMH tools, since the technology is rather simple and the running voltage is actually 12 volts DC, give or take. Trying to do this with newer LiIon-powered tools is not a good idea for a couple reasons. Because of additional safety factors involved in LiIon tech, tools are almost always equipped with several safety monitors in the circuitry built into the tool. Temperature, voltage and cell balance are all measured by the tool electronics while operating. Note the number of connections a LiIon battery has between it and the tool compared to a NiCd or NiMH. Not only are the basic battery connections present (usually the two biggest connections) but several smaller ones. This is used to relay information between the cell pack and the tool in order to keep the usage of the cells within safe parameters. LiIon cells can't be discharged below a certain voltage before they become permanently damaged almost instantly. The electronics monitor the total voltage and will shut down the tool when it falls below a certain level. Cell balance also plays a critical role. With several cells in series, one or two are bound to discharge more than the rest while still keeping overall pack voltage within safe specs. If one cell drops below it's minimum spec, this won't always trigger the total voltage drop protection. Eventually this cell will become "reverse charged" by the remaining good cells. If this happens, the cell is immediately and irreversibly damaged. If a large amount of reverse current is applied, the cell can burst or vent, which can lead to sparks or fire. The electronics measure individual cell voltage or a split between groups of cells to determine if any cells drop before the rest, this shuts off the tool to save the cells and maintain safety. In LiIon chargers, this monitoring is used "in reverse" to make sure a weak cell does not become overcharged before the rest catch up, this is very critical. If a LiIon cell is charged beyond full capacity, there is a risk of cell rupture, venting and fire. Should a bad cell in series with good ones suddenly go beyond critical spec, the charging is shut down and (usually) some indicator on the charger is shown denoting a defective pack.

Cell temperature is critical in NiCd, NiMH and especially LiIon. There are temperature sensors in most packs that are used by both the charger and the tool. Charging a battery outside of temp limits (hot and cold) can damage it. There is usually a warning light or indication on the charger for this. Using the tool hard or overloading it will heat up the cells, the sensor will be used by the tool to shut off the tool until the cell cools. Putting a hot pack into the charger will put the charger into a delayed or low current mode until the cell cools. Some chargers have a fan that speeds this up.

There is also overcurrent protection in tools and/or battery packs. Some tools use this parameter more carefully than others. A drill, driver, saw, grinder or any other tool that can be accidentally or deliberately stalled will usually have some sort of active overcurrent protection, especially LiIon. Tools that are tough or impossible to stall such as impactors, lights and such might not care much of at all, or have basic protection. People complain how today's powerful LiIon tools are sometimes heavy handed in overload protection, but there's a good reason for this. I've found that Makita 18V LiIon tools have less protection than other brands, especially the white lighter duty series. One drill I have started smoking instantly when it bound up, I exchanged it thinking it was defective. Upon further investigation (I tore open the new tool for a peek inside) I found there was absolutely no provided protection, and only the two main battery terminals were used. These tools were relegated to light duty around-the-house work.

What does all my blather have to do with converting tools to run on car batteries? In the case of any LiIon tools branded "12V" there is the real risk of running the tool on a higher voltage than nominal. Since the LiIon batteries indeed push close if not slightly more than 12 volts when first taken off the charger, this is not going to be too big a deal, at least at first. Since the LiIon cells drop to 10.8 volts or so once in use, running the tool on 12+ volts continuously can likely overwork it and possibly shorten its life. The real issue is all of the expected interconnections between the LiIon pack and the tool not being in place. Few tools I know of will operate if there arent valid signals from the pack to the tool. By just connecting the main supply voltage to the tool, you leave open the cell balance, temp and other protection inputs. The electronics won't have any of this, and will prevent the tool from running. It IS possible to fool the tool by providing it with false inputs, but this can be tricky depending on how sophisticated the interlinks are. Gutting a LiIon pack and installing a voltage divider made up of resistors to trick the tool into thin king there are three (in the case of 12V LiIon) cells is not a big deal. The thermistor can just dangle around inside the hollow pack. Add a substantial fuse (at least 10 amps) in line to protect the tool. The consideration now is what will the tool do if it is used on a vehicle battery while the engine is running, and the voltage is 14+ volts...
 

Packard V8

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EDIT: Greatbear was typing same time I was. He gives good cautions on Lion batts.

No new news about running older tools on external batteries. Been done many times starting many years back. Seen several articles in magazines and dozens on the web. Do a search and you'll have days of reading come up.

jack vines
 
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rob0781

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Any more people have input on this, I work in a wreckers yard and this would be great for work if it works, would 12 volt drill work or would 14.4 be better? I'd be running this off a 12 v battery that's not on a charge
 

Outlawmws

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Any more people have input on this, I work in a wreckers yard and this would be great for work if it works, would 12 volt drill work or would 14.4 be better? I'd be running this off a 12 v battery that's not on a charge

Either will work just don't spend money on a Lion tool per Greatbear's comments.. Nicad no prob.
 

Hawk Thor

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I've used both a 12V and 14V drill powered by a running car. The 14V drill seemed normal, but the 12V drill had real guts when it had 13.8V on tap.

The 14V drill has been used down in the shop for a good while now with a 18V battery pack that fits directly. I haven't noticed any problems.
 
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