15 amp house circuit keeps cutting out

[claymont]

This is on an about 2-year-old 100 amp Eaton panel which has four 15 amp, two 20 amp 120v circuits and two 30 amp 240v circuits. The old panel box was used to tie existing to new panel in a different location. This was done to sell the house which my daughter bought about two years ago. This circuit controls a couple of outlets in a basement room, the dining room lights and outlets, part of the living room outlets, one upstairs bedroom ceiling light and outlets, the bathroom light which has an outlet, and a ceiling fan, and the hall light. I checked the load on the circuit with what is normally on, and it's between 4 and 5 amps.
What's happening is everything that's turned on will flicker on and off for minutes or shut off completely for minutes, and then power back up. Two separate electricians have looked at this and can't find the fault. They were looking for bad connections, from what my daughter said; nothing was found. I have a Klein circuit tester/tracer and tested all the outlets on the circuit and found nothing. I even checked for noise from arcing with a very sensitive industrial stethoscope...nothing. I felt that since the whole circuit was doing this, it had to be at the splice in the old panel or in the new panel related to this circuit. I checked all the connections and found nothing. Lastly, I replaced the breaker. Well...for three weeks problem fixed, but I got a call that the circuit is cutting out again. I'm out of ideas, beyond my scope of knowledge. What should I do, know? My daughter is going to call another electrician that she was referred to.
If you're curious, here's the instrument I used to listen with:

 

[Zeke]

That's quite a bit for a 15 amp. You say 4-5 A but does she use a hair dryer? I think a log of when it trips is the first order.

 

[claymont]

That's quite a bit for a 15 amp. You say 4-5 A but does she use a hair dryer? I think a log of when it trips is the first order.

Not using hair dryer when it cuts out, just watching TV, internet. That draw was with most everything else on except hair dryer.

 

[Dagny]

turn the circuit off and take note of everything that quits.I bet there is a recp. that quits when you turn it off that dont when it quits on its own that recp. is the problem. your electricians ****.

 

[kcombs]

Last time I had a flickering problem is was a variable switch on a ceiling fan.

Kurt

 

[Zeke]

turn the circuit off and take note of everything that quits.I bet there is a recp. that quits when you turn it off that dont when it quits on its own that recp. is the problem. your electricians ****.

Huh??

 

[walta]

Is this a ground fault or arc fault breaker with a test button?



Walta

 

[claymont]

Is this a ground fault or arc fault breaker with a test button?



Walta

No standard Eaton breaker.

 

[American Locomotive]

Huh??

Basically, he's saying that is a tremendous amount of stuff to be on one circuit. It's all going to be daisy chained. Odds are, that when everything seems to "die", there will still be one light or outlet on that circuit still working normally.

 

[claymont]

Basically, he's saying that is a tremendous amount of stuff to be on one circuit. It's all going to be daisy chained. Odds are, that when everything seems to "die", there will still be one light or outlet on that circuit still working normally.

What I don't understand is why did replacing the breaker stop the problem for over two weeks, and then it starts up again? This is a daily problem, sometimes multiple times a day.

 

[Dagny]

American gets it the trouble is in a working box.

 

[claymont]

American gets it the trouble is in a working box.

So if I get a few night lights and plug them into the outlets and look for the one that stays on, that should point to the problem box, correct?

 

[The Cobbler]

I'm thinking bad connection (somewhere) is causing your issue. I am wondering if, since you changed the breaker and it "fixed the problem" for a few weeks, is it the buss bar , or the wire that connects to the breaker . ( though is by movong the breaker you tweaked whatever and it held for a while, then reverted back to the existing condition).

 

[mm08822]

This is on an about 2-year-old 100 amp Eaton panel which has four 15 amp, two 20 amp 120v circuits and two 30 amp 240v circuits. The old panel box was used to tie existing to new panel in a different location. This was done to sell the house which my daughter bought about two years ago. This circuit controls a couple of outlets in a basement room, the dining room lights and outlets, part of the living room outlets, one upstairs bedroom ceiling light and outlets, the bathroom light which has an outlet, and a ceiling fan, and the hall light. I checked the load on the circuit with what is normally on, and it's between 4 and 5 amps.
What's happening is everything that's turned on will flicker on and off for minutes or shut off completely for minutes, and then power back up. Two separate electricians have looked at this and can't find the fault. They were looking for bad connections, from what my daughter said; nothing was found. I have a Klein circuit tester/tracer and tested all the outlets on the circuit and found nothing. I even checked for noise from arcing with a very sensitive industrial stethoscope...nothing. I felt that since the whole circuit was doing this, it had to be at the splice in the old panel or in the new panel related to this circuit. I checked all the connections and found nothing. Lastly, I replaced the breaker. Well...for three weeks problem fixed, but I got a call that the circuit is cutting out again. I'm out of ideas, beyond my scope of knowledge. What should I do, know? My daughter is going to call another electrician that she was referred to.
If you're curious, here's the instrument I used to listen with:

With everything identified on that cb, start opening up the receptacles and switches closest to the old panel location on that cb, looking for loose connections or more likely back-stabbed connections. Eliminate any back-stabbed connections putting wires under screw or pressure plate.
Failing back-stabbed connections can still retain the wire when cold and start loosing contact when getting warmer/hot. Tell tale sign is burnt insulation on conductor and/or device.
Failure can still happen at a device that has retains power. The poor connection can be on the load side of the device which would provide trouble to the remaining down-stream circuit.

A blow dryer load could even accelerate the fault.

Any wire-nutted spliced should be checked while you are in each box. Even wire nuts can show signs of overheating.

 

[Jmellc]

Lots of good thoughts here. I agee with killing breaker & going box to box, every switch & receptacle, every light. Yes, get rid of any backstabs, replace any burned device. Check any 3 way and 4 way switches for a neutral crossed with travelers. That could trip a breaker when a certain pair of switches are used.

Also check attic & crawl space for any hidden loads like a pump or heater of any kind, maybe heat trace tape on a pipe, etc. Attic roof fan maybe.

Circuit may be good most of the time but overloading when hidden load kicks in. Through the years, people often add loads to whatever they find nearby. It can become a spider web. Sometimes a red flag will be a dissimilar wire from a junction box. Say 2 old cloth Romex cables, then a white or yellow plastic Romex. Or old metal BX, then a plastic Romex. If you spot things, have someone inside to turn breaker on & off while you see if loads respond.

Could be that the new breaker tolerates an overload for a few weeks then gets weaker from constant overload.

These things are an electrician’s nightmare.

 

[claymont]

I'm thinking bad connection (somewhere) is causing your issue. I am wondering if, since you changed the breaker and it "fixed the problem" for a few weeks, is it the buss bar , or the wire that connects to the breaker . ( though is by movong the breaker you tweaked whatever and it held for a while, then reverted back to the existing condition).

I do have some experience with bad electrical connections(aluminum wiring, back-stabbed fixtures) and I don't see any signs of over heating/arcing in any wiring, equipment I inspected. I even opened the breaker I replaced, and it looks practically new, very minimal wear on the contacts. So far, three people have looked at this, two electricians and me, and can't find the problem.

 

[AA/FC]

I do have some experience with bad electrical connections(aluminum wiring, back-stabbed fixtures) and I don't see any signs of over heating/arcing in any wiring, equipment I inspected. I even opened the breaker I replaced, and it looks practically new, very minimal wear on the contacts. So far, three people have looked at this, two electricians and me, and can't find the problem.

All you can do is keep looking for the problem....

You WILL eventually find the problem and when you do, you will be surprised at how simple it was to fix, but yet so hard to find.

 

[AntonLargiader]

It's a fire hazard so someone should get to the bottom of it. I would open the recep covers and then try to recreate the problem with some load (like a hair dryer) and then look for where you lose the voltage (or gain it on the neutral). Finding out if every recep you listed experiences the problem, and if anything else goes dead when you flip the breaker, are fundamental steps. A box of night lights sounds like a great help for that.

If the receps are daisy-chained, maybe one of the connector tabs is cracked. Could be a wire got damaged by a nail somewhere. My in-laws had a problem where one recep could power a night light but any stronger load would make the circuit drop out. They never got to the bottom of it.

 

[dave*99]

A friends house exhibited a similar problem. He had a string of daisy chained outlets running around the house. He didn't have any electrical experience.
I told him to walk around the house and bang on each outlet with his fist. When the lights began to flicker, He found a bad connection in the middle of the chain.

 

[claymont]

Gentlemen, thank you for all the input. I'm going to have my daughter put night lights in the outlets in the dining room, living room and basement outlets to see if the power is on or off when the trouble occurs. My daughter says from about 15 seconds to 2 minutes for an incident. Hopefully, she'll be able to see where the power is cutting out.