15A or 20A outlets?

[Vintage Veloce]

So my garage has these darn TR Tamper Resistant outlets and I'm going to replace them. I noticed they are 15A outlets.
But I do have 20A GFCI breakers for each circuit, with 12ga (yellow) and only 4-5 outlets per circuit)

I was assuming I should use 15A receptacles.
But...
Should I install 20A outlets (NEMA 5-20R) when I replace these? Frankly, I've never encountered a device that needs one of these 20A outlets...

 

[Slowgsr]

You could use a T slot, they're more durable since they're rated for more power. 15amp plugs are fine too. The most important thing - get a spec grade outlet, stay away from low quality residential outlets, and never use the friction type plug in connection on the backside of the plugs

 

[esvee]

Since you're wired and breakered appropriately, it's really up to you since a 20-amp outlet would be totally to code.

Like Slowgsr said, a 20A outlet will have thicker components, depends on what you're doing with these outlets. If you typically plug battery chargers and led lights in them, its probably not worth it. If you're actually drawing anywhere close to 15A then you should definitely upgrade.

 

[malibu101]

I can't cite the exact NEC section......
IF there is only 1 outlet. It must match the circuit ampacity. A 20A breaker MUST have a 20A outlet.

If there is more than 1 outlet on a 20A circuit. It is acceptable to use 15A outlets.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Like Slowgsr said, a 20A outlet will have thicker components, depends on what you're doing with these outlets.

The internal parts to a 15 and 20 amp receptacle are the same, due to the 20 amp feed through rating. They don't have thicker components

 

[Stuart in MN]

The NEC allows 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit as long as you have more than two of them, and a standard duplex 15 amp receptacle counts as two. As mentioned above there's no difference in the internal components, so there's no need to use 20 amp receptacles.

 

[Jim greengo]

Since you're wired and breakered appropriately, it's really up to you since a 20-amp outlet would be totally to code.

Like Slowgsr said, a 20A outlet will have thicker components, depends on what you're doing with these outlets. If you typically plug battery chargers and led lights in them, its probably not worth it. If you're actually drawing anywhere close to 15A then you should definitely upgrade.

15a recepts are code as long as theres more than 1 on each circuit,the gfi feeding the circuit should be a 20a though.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Thanks guys!

 

[Norcal]

If you have money to waste then go 20A, they are not needed as already mentioned the internals are the same for both 15A & 20A devices, better to buy good quality 15A receptacles & use what money is left over somewhere else.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I can't cite the exact NEC section......
IF there is only 1 outlet. It must match the circuit ampacity. A 20A breaker MUST have a 20A outlet.

If there is more than 1 outlet on a 20A circuit. It is acceptable to use 15A outlets.

Those are duplex outlets. Does not apply.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you have money to waste then go 20A, they are not needed as already mentioned the internals are the same for both 15A & 20A devices, better to buy good quality 15A receptacles & use what money is left over somewhere else.

There is about $1 difference for a 10 pack of Leviton "commercial" 15A duplex outlets and 20A duplex outlets.

 

[esvee]

For anyone curious: 2005 NEC, Table 210.21(B)(3). Unless the circuit is supplying only a single receptacle if so, then the receptacle must match the circuit.

I'm used to working in high current DC, where the current rating will for sure dictate component makeup and gauge. I'm surprised to learn that a 20A and a 15A receptacle are the same internally. That would mean that technically speaking the only difference is the printing on the plastic and the t-slot.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

There is about $1 difference for a 10 pack of Leviton "commercial" 15A duplex outlets and 20A duplex outlets.

So, is there much use for the 20A form factor, with the horizontal neutral spade (NEMA 5-20R)?

 

[alfredeneuman]

Only if you have machines that have 20A plugs on them

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Only if you have machines that have 20A plugs on them

HA HA.... come one, what uses these? Beside the obvious, devices that require more than 15 but less than 20A?

 

[checkthisout]

I second the motion of using quality commercial outlets that are quintuple the price of homeowner outlets.

They are bit more financially painful to buy but they grip cords sooooooooooo much better especially when everything you use in shop usually draws lots of amps.

 

[sberry]

I used to fuss over that but I use the 4$ a box outlets, have used them on the bench where they got 1000's of cycles, I can't even remember replacing one. I ain't that "special" that they don't work for me. I have hundreds of them and it takes a lot of pain out of it by encouragement to replace something old.

 

[alfredeneuman]

HA HA.... come one, what uses these? Beside the obvious, devices that require more than 15 but less than 20A?

That's what I was getting at.
I've only encountered 1, and that was a window A/C.
It was plugged into a single outlet, not a duplex.

 

[sberry]

It isn't really to provide for 20A demands as normally thought of. Its to prevent things from being plugged in to general circuits that may be sensitive to overload. That type of plug is not only installed for 20
A demands but on other pieces doesn't even need it. I see the vacuum at the school, one of them a basic residential unit with a 16 cord and installed 20A end. One of the main uses for it is institutional cleaning and floor equipment. They put long cords on the stuff, a 20A end and a 20A outlet in the hallway.
I see the girl twisted the prong to defeat this. Here is why. Imagine the teachers in the lab, the computer equipment has been set up, all is well running 10A or so on experiment and along comes the cleaning lady who used these general circuits to plug in the 13A vac. The vac doesn't require 20, this might even be done on a 14 cord but the combination trips a breaker and you now have a tripped circuit no one is aware of, the janitor doesn't know squat, ruins the stuff, conks the fridge, any number of scenarios. So by nature of the plug force the user to use a specific outlet or circuit usually with no other loads on it, prevents all these problems.
Look at all the equipment comes 15 end draws lots, little comps, the modern wire welder, all hi draw. The main thing the 20A recept says is,,, its ok to plug hi draw items in here. Its really not helpful on general circuits or if installed there says,,, its ok to use this for that.
I own hundreds of pieces, a couple will trip a 20 wide open or on starts. All factory cords, not one came 20 end and don't own anything with a 20A plug.

 

[sberry]

Only if you have machines that have 20A plugs on them

HA HA.... come one, what uses these? Beside the obvious, devices that require more than 15 but less than 20A?

This is a really good quote,,, note that he didn't say,, for stuff that needs 20A but only that its for things that come with 20A plugs.
By using all 20 this says,,, you don't care if things with those plugs are used here. It may be your puter or freezer circuit etc that you don't want these loads applied to. The plug keeps the equipment off the other circuits. The others may be 20, usually are, doesn't give it more power but only isolated it and prevents trips due to the fact there are not other or parasitic loads,,, lights or other equipment on them, keeps one load at a time on it preventing trips.

 

[sberry]

Installing 20 everywhere is legal, its ok but its really poor design by missing the intent to some extent. I have a couple probably got installed by others but ones I did are on their own wire and breaker. None of the others are sensitive but have never actually used the 20 feat8ure although I do on occasion chose one of those circuits for heavy motor loads, table saw or small comp knowing there isn't clocks or other equipment on them I would need to reset in the event of a trip.

 

[6PTsocket]

I once took apart a shot 15A gfci. Under the plastic face plate were 20A prongs. They can charge more for 20A. How many 20A plugs have you ever seen? I can only think of one instance. They were on work stations with a fluorescent light fixture that each had a cord and receptacale so they could be daisy chained. Not knowing how long the chain might be, they went with 20A plugs and receptacles. I have never seen it in a portable tool. When the current requirement would be over 15A they usually go to 240 V. As mentioned 15A receptacles are 20A feed through. I use the spec ones that have clamps for the wire. The push ins are unreliable and not to be trusted. Wrapping around the screw is a PIA.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[nsula_country]

So my garage has these darn TR Tamper Resistant outlets and I'm going to replace them. I noticed they are 15A outlets.
But I do have 20A GFCI breakers for each circuit, with 12ga (yellow) and only 4-5 outlets per circuit)

I was assuming I should use 15A receptacles.
But...
Should I install 20A outlets (NEMA 5-20R) when I replace these? Frankly, I've never encountered a device that needs one of these 20A outlets...

No one has mentioned that the OP has 3 brands of breakers next to each other...

Listed?

TR receptacles are overrated. I'd replace them with non-TR 15 amp spec grade.

CT

 

[alfredeneuman]

along comes the cleaning lady who used these general circuits to plug in the 13A vac.

One big office that I serviced had several receptacles labelled for "Cleaning Use Only"
I was continually replacing those outlets because the janitors would pull the cord sideways and tear the face off of them, leaving the guts exposed.
They were heavy duty specification grade outlets, too.

 

[Strouty]

I thought if you have ten 15 amp outlets you have to use a 150 amp breaker. I mean the guy with the 200 HP motor can make it work, right?

 

[nsula_country]

One big office that I serviced had several receptacles labelled for "Cleaning Use Only"
I was continually replacing those outlets because the janitors would pull the cord sideways and tear the face off of them, leaving the guts exposed.
They were heavy duty specification grade outlets, too.

I had to make large, RED DO NOT USE labels for my power strips under my desk. Would come into work and my UPS would be unplugged. They were plugging their vacuum into my power strip (because it was easy to get to) and it would trip my UPS. UPS would start to alarm and they would freak and unplug all my cords.

Even with the labels it happened a few times after that. I raised hell. They stopped.

CT

 

[Vintage Veloce]

No one has mentioned that the OP has 3 brands of breakers next to each other...

Listed?

TR receptacles are overrated. I'd replace them with non-TR 15 amp spec grade.

CT

Yep. Various mods over time.

The outlet circuits originally had GFCI outlets, but I had to put a bookshelf over one of the GFCI outlets, so I removed that outlet and replaced it with a regular one and put in a GFCI breaker instead. I've nw decided to do the other circuits and replace those accursed TR receptacles.

 

[Norcal]

No one has mentioned that the OP has 3 brands of breakers next to each other...

Listed?

TR receptacles are overrated. I'd replace them with non-TR 15 amp spec grade.

CT

All of them are Siemens products and Siemens/Murray are both Gould /ITE designs, Siemens bought the ITE brand from Gould Inc in the early/mid 1980’s

 

[Vintage Veloce]

This is a really good quote,,, note that he didn't say,, for stuff that needs 20A but only that its for things that come with 20A plugs.
By using all 20 this says,,, you don't care if things with those plugs are used here. It may be your puter or freezer circuit etc that you don't want these loads applied to. The plug keeps the equipment off the other circuits. The others may be 20, usually are, doesn't give it more power but only isolated it and prevents trips due to the fact there are not other or parasitic loads,,, lights or other equipment on them, keeps one load at a time on it preventing trips.

Thanks for all the great comments everyone. But this one above helped me understand this a bit better. The 20A receptacle really hints that devices with more than 15A are very welcome on the circuit, and that might *not* always be true in this case. I'll go with 15A receptacles.

 

[sberry]

I had to make large, RED DO NOT USE labels for my power strips under my desk. Would come into work and my UPS would be unplugged. They were plugging their vacuum into my power strip (because it was easy to get to) and it would trip my UPS. UPS would start to alarm and they would freak and unplug all my cords.

Even with the labels it happened a few times after that. I raised hell. They stopped.

CT

Yes, this is the intent. To prevent it you put a 20 end on her vacuum and provide and outlet it fits you want her to use.

 

[dscheidt]

No one has mentioned that the OP has 3 brands of breakers next to each other...

Listed?

TR receptacles are overrated. I'd replace them with non-TR 15 amp spec grade.

CT

siemens and murray breakers are identical. I've seen them factory mispacked.
Siemens will tell you you can't interchange them, because they're protecting the higher price on Siemens branded gear.


The eaton could well be a classified replacement.

 

[sberry]

Where I do like a better recept is on old work, small box and short wire or no real room for pigtails. You can train all the wires in before ever connecting the device.

 

[Jim greengo]

One big office that I serviced had several receptacles labelled for "Cleaning Use Only"
I was continually replacing those outlets because the janitors would pull the cord sideways and tear the face off of them, leaving the guts exposed.
They were heavy duty specification grade outlets, too.

 

[checkthisout]

Where I do like a better recept is on old work, small box and short wire or no real room for pigtails. You can train all the wires in before ever connecting the device.

How are you going to celebrate when you reach 30k posts?

 

[KenC]

HA HA.... come one, what uses these? Beside the obvious, devices that require more than 15 but less than 20A?

my Century Mig has one. Had to change a few outlets in the shop where it gets used.

 

[dscheidt]

HA HA.... come one, what uses these? Beside the obvious, devices that require more than 15 but less than 20A?

They're not uncommon on commercial kitchen appliances (microwaves, toasters, blenders) that's not quite big enough to warrant 240 V.

 

[sberry]

Yes, those things would trip on shared circuits especially with other kitchen appliances. I have wired bar kitchen where most everything was going at once. One of the only places I have seen with truly overloaded service.
This is why we try to get some accurate assessment when we get people worried about overloading common garages here,,, they can't compare to that

 

[75gmck25]

My garage has all 20 amp circuits, so I didn't worry about 15 vs. 20 amp receptacles. However, my house has a mix of old 15 amp and newer 20 amp circuits. In most cases I tried to use 20 amp receptacles on 20 amp circuits so I would remember they could handle more amperage. Its nice to know that a receptacle has a little more capacity (20 amp) when you want to plug in a space heater or run an appliance or tool that requires closer to the 15 amp max of most receptacle circuits. For example, my electric concrete saw has a standard 15 amp plug, but will often trip a 15 amp breaker on startup.

Bruce

 

[CJ7VFR]

My garage has all 20 amp circuits, so I didn't worry about 15 vs. 20 amp receptacles. However, my house has a mix of old 15 amp and newer 20 amp circuits. In most cases I tried to use 20 amp receptacles on 20 amp circuits so I would remember they could handle more amperage. Its nice to know that a receptacle has a little more capacity (20 amp) when you want to plug in a space heater or run an appliance or tool that requires closer to the 15 amp max of most receptacle circuits. For example, my electric concrete saw has a standard 15 amp plug, but will often trip a 15 amp breaker on startup.

Bruce

I have a friend who installs his 15A dual receptacles upside down (ground contact up) on all his 20A circuits for just this reason.

This way, he knows which circuits he can plug higher amperage tools/items into and not pop the breaker.

Jim

 

[FJ 432]

Installing 20 everywhere is legal, its ok but its really poor design by missing the intent to some extent. I have a couple probably got installed by others but ones I did are on their own wire and breaker. None of the others are sensitive but have never actually used the 20 feat8ure although I do on occasion chose one of those circuits for heavy motor loads, table saw or small comp knowing there isn't clocks or other equipment on them I would need to reset in the event of a trip.

Just want to say that I continue to learn from your posts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.