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16 foot ceiling, T5HO vs T8

NP Carling26

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Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
22
Location
Pennsylvania
OK, planning my 30x60x16 pole barn. Lighting is my top priority as soon as it is built. I know my 16 foot ceilings are a bit of a pain, but this allows me to park a truck in there if I ever desire to. So anyways, I need some recommendations. This will primarily be used as a work area, fixing cars and quads and what not, so I will need adequate shop lighting. Second of all, start up and operating cost is a big factor. Trusses are running the 30ft section obviously, spaced 4 ft apart. My initial plan was to place 3 2L 48" T8 fixtures every 4.5ft along the truss. I would then skip a truss, and do the same for every other one. Basically fixtures would be spaced 4.5ft and 8ft away from each other. Will this result in enough lighting? If not, what would be the best solution while still keeping it on the lower price range (hoping to keep it $1000 or less for fixtures and bulbs)

Any input is greatly appreciated!
 
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Charles (in GA)

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Jan 11, 2006
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50 mi south of Atlanta
http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/ibz_x54.pdf

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/photometricViewer/default.aspx?id=34926

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/Default.aspx?id=34926

Follow the last link, select "Interior" from the design tools list at the top.

I selected the dimensions of 30 length, 60 wide, and 16 height. Left the workplane at 2.5 ft and left the Illuminace foot candles at 100. I changed the ceiling reflectance to 75% and it actually might need to be lower than that. I left the default wall and floor settings.

It says three rows of five (or five rows of three, depending on your viewpoint) of the I-Beam wide distribution 4 lamp T5HO fixtures. Probably more than you planned on, but without a ceiling to provide reflectance, you are somewhat limited in your light possibilities.

Each 4 lamp fixture will draw 2 amps on 120 v. Best to set up the rows on separate switches and circuits.

Charles
 

2ManyProjects

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
OK, planning my 30x60x16 pole barn. Lighting is my top priority as soon as it is built. I know my 16 foot ceilings are a bit of a pain, but this allows me to park a truck in there if I ever desire to. So anyways, I need some recommendations. This will primarily be used as a work area, fixing cars and quads and what not, so I will need adequate shop lighting. Second of all, start up and operating cost is a big factor. Trusses are running the 30ft section obviously, spaced 4 ft apart.

So, if I have this envisioned correctly, you have fifteen inter-truss spaces, and a total of sixteen trusses (including the ones forming the gable ends). So in effect, fourteen of the trusses are "usable" for mounting lights to. Hold that thought.

My initial plan was to place 3 2L 48" T8 fixtures every 4.5ft along the truss. I would then skip a truss, and do the same for every other one. Basically fixtures would be spaced 4.5ft and 8ft away from each other. Will this result in enough lighting?

I seriously doubt that you will be happy with that.

First, if you only use every other truss, you're going to need something MUCH more powerful than twin-tube T8s. The fixtures Charles suggested would be in the ballpark. But there's another problem with this approach:

If you only use every other truss, you inevitably wind up either "doubling-up" or leaving a gap SOMEWHERE in the run. OTOH, if you were to use ALL the trusses, then the spacing can remain even throughout, AND the last row of fixtures on each end will be within four feet of the walls (so as to decently illuminate whatever is on those walls). It would also let you drop back to twin-tube T8s, instead of quad-tube T5HOs. If you use something like these:

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/Library/LL/documents/SpecSheets/L.pdf
http://www.lightingdirect.com/litho...dustrial-ceiling-flushmount-from-the/p1865378
lithonia_lighting_l232_mv_0.jpg


... four of them per truss will yield approximately 100-110 lumen/ft.^2 at working height, which will be PLENTY of light for what you want to do. You might get away with three per truss; but that would drop the work-height illumination down to about 75-80 lumen/ft.^2 (still not bad, but short of ideal), and the end-to-end gaps between each fixture become large enough that this MIGHT be an issue (tho' with 16 feet of mounting height to play with, probably not a huge one).

If not, what would be the best solution while still keeping it on the lower price range (hoping to keep it $1000 or less for fixtures and bulbs)

I don't think that is a realistic budget target for a project of this scale. The fixtures I suggested above are already quite reasonably priced, as such things go. And even assuming only three per truss, you're looking at about $2,500, with bulbs.


http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/ibz_x54.pdf

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/photometricViewer/default.aspx?id=34926

http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/interior/Default.aspx?id=34926

Follow the last link, select "Interior" from the design tools list at the top.

I selected the dimensions of 30 length, 60 wide, and 16 height. Left the workplane at 2.5 ft and left the Illuminace foot candles at 100. I changed the ceiling reflectance to 75% and it actually might need to be lower than that.

I would think that, with an open-truss ceiling, it would need to be MUCH less than that. FWIW, I used 10-50% to come up with the predicted brightness figures I quoted above (once below 50%, still-lower values don't have a huge effect).

Each 4 lamp fixture will draw 2 amps on 120 v. Best to set up the rows on separate switches and circuits.

I agree that multiple circuits and multiple independently-switched banks are in order; but I would hope for something considerably more sophisticated than just row-by-row. The details will depend in large part on just how the OP plans to lay things out inside that space, and on what sort of work will (typically) be performed where. But switching flexibility is ALWAYS a good thing, and it's almost impossible to have too much of it.

 
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OP
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NP Carling26

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
22
Location
Pennsylvania
Allow me to try this approach then.

I'm figuring I purchase 28 of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100192...&productId=100192753&R=100192753#.UnKX8PkSih0

Putting two per truss on 14 trusses. (spaced 4'8" from wall, 4'8" between both, and finally 4'8" from other wall)

Then purchasing 4 boxes of these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_291833-3-22...l=1&currentURL=?Ntt=t8+fluorescent&facetInfo=

Each bulb produces 2800 lumens, so there is a total of 11,200 lumens per fixture. 11,200 lumens per fixture times 28 fixtures equates to 313,600 lumens, divided by 1800 sf that puts 174 lumens per sf.

174 lumens / sqft is actually overkill from what I have read on this forum...so would my approach work? Obviously I will have them switched, my goal being either 2 zones (left and right) or 3 zones (first 5, middle 5, rear 4.)

I appreciate everyone's input so far.
 

kiotick25

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
8
Hello NP Carling,

My building is similar to height as yours 14'5 at eaves but 20 at the top of the A frame in an open steel truss design. I'm considering using these fixtures below at home depot. I viewed the ones you attached in the prior post and also viewed them in person at home depot, I wasn't all that impressed with the amount of light thrown.

I was impressed with a fixture they had that contained 6 T5 bulbs wow that was bright and the price tag was shocking about $80+. A bit too expensive for the number of fixtures I would need. I did notice that it had a silver or chrome backing, which I think made a huge difference to the other fixtures in the store.

My plan was to purchase the 4 light T8 fixture below using 5000k tubes... but spraying the gray liner chrome or silver, something that will reflect. The big bonus here with this fixture is that it has a female plug built in therefore less wiring if you plan to daisy chain two together. My shop is 30x36 and I was planning on 12 fixtures evenly spaced.


Once you hit the URL, flip through the reviews a few good pics from the customers who have purchased these to give you some further images to ponder.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-4-Light-Grey-Heavy-Duty-Shoplight-1284GRD-RE/202968125

Either way Home Depot had a good display of workshop lights and selection compared to Lowes. Might want to stop by and check them out before you make a final decision?

I'm probably about a month or less away from putting these up. I'll post some pics and give a review unless some other fixture that's better pops up between now and then.

Good luck
 

2ManyProjects

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
Allow me to try this approach then.

I'm figuring I purchase 28 of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100192...&productId=100192753&R=100192753#.UnKX8PkSih0

Putting two per truss on 14 trusses. (spaced 4'8" from wall, 4'8" between both, and finally 4'8" from other wall)

Then purchasing 4 boxes of these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_291833-3-22...l=1&currentURL=?Ntt=t8+fluorescent&facetInfo=

This scheme would use the same number of F32T8 tubes as I previously suggested using four twin-tube fixtures per truss; and thus, the total light output would be the same at the source.

HOWEVER, given your open-truss ceiling, those fixtures will effectively waste a LOT of their output due to the lack of a reflector. And therefore the overall result would be FAR less successful. Do not underestimate this effect. For example, even if you were to use only three of those fixtures I previously suggested (or similar) per truss, that would surely put MORE light down on the shop floor. In addition,. you would lose some potential switching flexibility, vis-a-vis separate 4-foot fixtures. And finally, the inter-fixture spacing along each truss is also somewhat greater than ideal; but that's the least of the issues.

All, in all, color me unimpressed.

Each bulb produces 2800 lumens, so there is a total of 11,200 lumens per fixture. 11,200 lumens per fixture times 28 fixtures equates to 313,600 lumens, divided by 1800 sf that puts 174 lumens per sf.

174 lumens / sqft is actually overkill from what I have read on this forum...

Yahbut... That 174 lumens/ft.^2 is the total nominal light output AT THE SOURCE. Problem is, you're not working sixteen feet in the air. By the time the light gets down to "working height" (typically about three feet off the floor), you lose quite a bit (figure a third or so) of it, even presuming that ALL of the lamps' output is directed downward (which it wouldn't be, especially given those reflectorless fixtures you cited).

so would my approach work?

FSVO "work", sure. But it would certainly not work AS WELL as the approach I previously suggested.

Obviously I will have them switched, my goal being either 2 zones (left and right) or 3 zones (first 5, middle 5, rear 4.)

In a shop the size of yours, "zoning" may well be appropriate. But in addition to that, you will near-certainly ALSO want some control over the illumination levels WITHIN those zones. I typically recommend a three-bank approach, with "Bank 1" being a minimal level of "walk-through" lighting, "Bank 2" comprising about 1/3 to 1/2 of the remaining lighting (which, in combination with "Bank 1", provides sufficient light for non-critical work), and "Bank 3" being the remainder (used when you want maximum lighting quality/brightness). Obviously, you still want the light to be as evenly distributed as possible even when only some of these banks are powered-up; so this is yet another reason to use individual twin-tube 4-foot fixtures, so that the "banks" can be "intermixed" on an (approximately) alternate-fixture basis.


Hello NP Carling,

My building is similar to height as yours 14'5 at eaves but 20 at the top of the A frame in an open steel truss design. I'm considering using these fixtures below at home depot. I viewed the ones you attached in the prior post and also viewed them in person at home depot, I wasn't all that impressed with the amount of light thrown.

Nor would I expect you to be. They simply aren't appropriate for either open-truss or "high-bay" applications (let alone both at the same time).

I was impressed with a fixture they had that contained 6 T5 bulbs wow that was bright and the price tag was shocking about $80+. A bit too expensive for the number of fixtures I would need.

Maybe we live in different worlds; but I would not consider $80 out of line for a six-tube T5HO "High Bay" fixture. In fact, I'd be suspicious of the build quality and ballast(s) in anything significantly cheaper. That said, I would also seriously doubt that such a fixture is the best solution for either you or the OP, regardless of cost.

I did notice that it had a silver or chrome backing, which I think made a huge difference to the other fixtures in the store.

Probably polished aluminum or similar -- and yes, such reflectors are de rigueur in "High Bay" fixtures.

My plan was to purchase the 4 light T8 fixture below using 5000k tubes... but spraying the gray liner chrome or silver, something that will reflect.

High-gloss white would be your best bet. But you shouldn't expect that to be anywhere near as effective as a factory-installed polished reflector.

The big bonus here with this fixture is that it has a female plug built in therefore less wiring if you plan to daisy chain two together.

I don't consider that a "bonus" at all. In my book, the fact that these are "plug-in" shop lights, as opposed to fixed-mount units designed to be permanently installed, is a huge DISadvantage. First, it means that (per code) all of the outlets these lights plug into MUST be GFCI-protected, even if they're 20 feet in the air. How often do you want to climb that ladder to push the little button after it trips? Second, having a rat's nest of plug-in cords hanging from the ceiling and/or fixtures will look ugly as hell, not to mention comprise an immense dust/dirt-catcher as time goes on. Also, plug-in connections are NEVER as secure as hard-wired ones. Do you ever get birds (and/or other critters) in that barn? And finally, I'd wager that those fixtures are NOT suitable for mounting directly to the ceiling/trusses, due to heat issues (hence the notation that they are to be suspended by the supplied chains) which will further exacerbate the wiring mess.

My shop is 30x36 and I was planning on 12 fixtures evenly spaced.

You, too, would surely be better off with a greater number of twin-tube fixtures similar to the ones I cited earlier.

 
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