18 volt Lithium Milwaukee or Rigid ?

[scarrylarry]

Hi Fellas

I'm in the market for an 18 volt Lithium Ion 1/2 Drill/Driver and 1/4 inch impact combo set . Do not currently own any cordless tools. Like to think I'm an Average DIY .Do some handyman jobs as well. I will be looking only at Milwaukee or now Ridgid because the HD salesman tells me about the free replacement batteries .

Question #1 Would you get a 1/2 hammer drill instead of just a 1/2 drill driver ?

Question #2 I'm thinking brushless technology

Question #3 I thought the Milwaukee Fuel line was all brushless but someone tells me that the Fuel line is about the batteries ?

I live in Canada so might not be able to get the models you fellas in the USA get .

Thanks !
Looking forward to your replies !
scarrylarry

 

[The Cobbler]

Rigid has a good warranty if you register .
I don't use a hammer drill all that often ( compared to cordless drill/driver) so I use a corded hammer drill whenever needed. keeps the cordless drill lighter etc

 

[Ign]

Hi Fellas

I'm in the market for an 18 volt Lithium Ion 1/2 Drill/Driver and 1/4 inch impact combo set . Do not currently own any cordless tools. Like to think I'm an Average DIY .Do some handyman jobs as well. I will be looking only at Milwaukee or now Ridgid because the HD salesman tells me about the free replacement batteries .

Question #1 Would you get a 1/2 hammer drill instead of just a 1/2 drill driver ?

Question #2 I'm thinking brushless technology

Question #3 I thought the Milwaukee Fuel line was all brushless but someone tells me that the Fuel line is about the batteries ?

I live in Canada so might not be able to get the models you fellas in the USA get .

Thanks !
Looking forward to your replies !
scarrylarry

Dead wrong and YOU are right. Fuel has nothing to do with batteries.

There is also non-Fuel brushless, it will simply say "Brushless" but will not say "Fuel."

Some will tell you hammer drills always get a better chuck. With Milwaukee, this is isn't really true, so don't make that a deciding factor. I'd simply ask yourself if you think you'll need "hammer mode" (am I the only one who sees those huge balloon pants spinning around???)

edit: also ALL M18 batteries work in ALL M18 tools. Doesn't matter if it's a 12 year old battery in a new Fuel tool, or a 12 year old tool on a brand new 9.0. They all fit.

 

[FigureItOut]

Some will tell you hammer drills always get a better chuck. With Milwaukee, this is isn't really true, so don't make that a deciding factor.

I was told at a Dewalt service center that a hammer drill will have a much looser spec when they test runout. It was later explained by a member here that the hammer drill's chuck will not be directly attached to the spindle because of the hammer mechanism, so a non-hammer drill will inherently have less runout. I don't have first hand knowledge of this, but it sounds right.

 

[jd_1138]

As a diy guy, either will be fine. I use Makita, but Milwaukee, DeWalt, Ridgid are all fine. Ryobi even is decent. I'd probably get the kit with the hammer drill if it's about the same price then later add a bare regular drill perhaps.

 

[metaldad]

ridgid has the better warranty.
ridgid seems to have better prices on batteries
milwaukee has a much larger line up.
i have both.
i have used the ridgid warranty, without an issue.
i have a milwaukee fuel sawzall. very light use. let the magic smoke out. that one went in the dumpster

 

[scarrylarry]

Dead wrong and YOU are right. Fuel has nothing to do with batteries.

There is also non-Fuel brushless, it will simply say "Brushless" but will not say "Fuel."

Some will tell you hammer drills always get a better chuck. With Milwaukee, this is isn't really true, so don't make that a deciding factor. I'd simply ask yourself if you think you'll need "hammer mode" (am I the only one who sees those huge balloon pants spinning around???)

edit: also ALL M18 batteries work in ALL M18 tools. Doesn't matter if it's a 12 year old battery in a new Fuel tool, or a 12 year old tool on a brand new 9.0. They all fit.

Okay Im missing something here ! What does Fuel mean or stand for

scarrylarry

 

[Fbmoose48]

Forget the Rigid warranty, its a lot of hoops that rarely seem to lead to a free battery or whatever.

The Milwaukee Fuel tools tend to be more rugged, probably less likely to actually need a warranty replacement. Check out some teardowns of both. The Fuel tools have tighter tolerances and generally better components. You get what you pay for.

 

[fivespdcat]

Okay Im missing something here ! What does Fuel mean or stand for

scarrylarry

fuel is basically Milwaukee's most powerful brushless motors. If there is a fuel alternative, it's all I will buy.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

 

[928'er]

They are both (along with Ryobi) made by the same company - TTI.

Batteries, however, use a different form factor and are not interchangeable. So, you're buying into a battery system. Chose the one that offers the tools you may want to add in the future....

 

[kctyphoon]

Milwaukee has 3 tiers for the 18v platform for drills and impact drivers

M18, Brushless, and Fuel
M18 use standard D.C. powered motors and standard electronics. Just like every tools has used since cordless tools were invented

Brushless uses brushless motors that are actually driven by ac power and are digitally controlled via electronic boards contained in the tools. They last longer and run cooler, but as far as torque specs go right now, the M18 brushed versions are still slightly stronger.

M18 Fuel is Milwaukee's top tier. EVERYTHING that says fuel will have Milwaukee's bigger, stronger Powerstate Brushless motors, that are also powered by ac electricity (all brushless motors are ac powered) and are digitally controlled. They are Milwaukee's best offering in the M18 line. That said, NONE of the lines are a bad choice, and any m18 battery will work with all m18 tools.

Red Lithium is Milwaukee's marketing term for their Lithium batteries. It's rumored that Milwaukee uses a specific battery chemistry that allows their Lithium batteries to operate in very cold temperatures without failing.

The only exception to this rule is the M18 surge impact driver. It is a hydraulically driven impact best suit for small and medium sized fasteners. It's quieter, and hits with smaller force behind it, but each impact lasts for a longer period of time helping to drive fasteners in.

Best advice to be given is to invest into a platform and not just the first few tools you buy. Milwaukee and Ridgid are both made by TTI, and by design, Milwaukee's tools will almost always outperform Ridgid in a side by side comparison. Milwaukee's line is also quite a bit more expansive than Ridgid.

Either brand will work, and there are a lot of mixed reviews on Ridgids warranty living up to its promise. Don't buy based on warranty. Buy based on what brand will fit your needs better. That said, Milwaukee has a HUGE following in here, and for a good reason. Many of us eventually wind up buying both the m18 and m12 lines since the tools are simply worth the money.

 

[WittHay]

The batteries last longer between charges on the brushless models vs. the older brushed versions. The Milwaukee models are the same in Canada as the States.

If you have a KMS tool store near you, their prices are sometimes better than Home Depot. They carry Bosch, DeWalt, Makita and Milwaukee so you can handle and compare all the top brands

 

[TrevorR82]

I personally use the Milwaukee M18 stuff and most of my tools have been relatively trouble free. The sawzall died on me for whatever reason and it had very little use, like three cuts max, my drill trigger acts up on occasion and I've had one battery just die out of the blue. I'm just going to replace the sawzall and drill with new Fuel units, when I get around to it. I've used the Rigid drill and it's actually a pretty nice piece. I really like the idea of the lifetime warranty on the tools and the batteries (as long as you sign up for their "Service Agreement"). I only know of one person making a battery claim and, from what I hear, it's a fairly easy process. If I wasn't so invested in Milwaukee batteries, I'd probably go Makita, I used them for work and they were great! I just bought the new Milwauke High Torque 1/2“ Impact and its absolutely amazing! Like others have posted, I dont think you can go wrong with any of the major brands.

 

[Ign]

If any Milwaukee tool dies within 5 years of manufacture or purchase send it in. No need to register anything. You’re ahead to save your receipt because then you gain the warranty time between manufacture date and purchase date. But if any tool has a date code within 5 years I never even bother digging up my receipt.

I just sent in a battery I purchased 12/1/14. I’m really glad it decided to die in 2.99 years and not 3.1. Three year warranty on most XC batteries. Incidentally the battery’s an M28

 

[Ign]

The guys saying they just threw away nearly new or lightly used tools are just throwing away $$, so OP consider the source when you’re taking advice.

They coulda sent those in (Milwaukee pays shipping both ways) and received a new or repaired tool to use, sell, or donate to a local charity. Instead what could have become a new, useful (for somebody) tool is now sitting in the landfill according to reports here. Brilliant!

 

[DerekV]

I was told at a Dewalt service center that a hammer drill will have a much looser spec when they test runout. It was later explained by a member here that the hammer drill's chuck will not be directly attached to the spindle because of the hammer mechanism, so a non-hammer drill will inherently have less runout. I don't have first hand knowledge of this, but it sounds right.

I had a Milwaukee Fuel Hammer Drill (model 2704) for a few days. Returned it for store credit because the run out/slop drove me nuts. That, and hammer drills **** to use for concrete/cement applications anyways (SDS ftw...but that's another topic all together). The only reason I got it was because HD's only seem to stock the hammer drill Fuel models in-store. Anyways, I used the store credit to order the non-hammer version (model 2703) online and the run out disappeared. It's also ~1/4" shorter and a hair lighter. Been using it pretty heavily for weekend DIY metal working/misc. tasks for over two years now, no issues. The front end of the regular drill-driver models are definitely more buttoned up.

It's really too bad HD doesn't stock the 2703's in store, or that Milwaukee doesn't have an M18 Fuel drill/impact combo kit that's non-hammer (and not One-Key).

 

[Loscaldazar]

Hammer drills are like multi tools IMO. Yeah, they can do both regular drilling and some concrete drilling, but it's worse at both when compared to a dedicated tool.

Non hammer drill all the way, and a SDS chuck drill for concrete (if you ever need it).

 

[ishiboo]

I had a Milwaukee Fuel Hammer Drill (model 2704) for a few days. Returned it for store credit because the run out/slop drove me nuts. That, and hammer drills **** to use for concrete/cement applications anyways (SDS ftw...but that's another topic all together). The only reason I got it was because HD's only seem to stock the hammer drill Fuel models in-store. Anyways, I used the store credit to order the non-hammer version (model 2703) online and the run out disappeared. It's also ~1/4" shorter and a hair lighter. Been using it pretty heavily for weekend DIY metal working/misc. tasks for over two years now, no issues. The front end of the regular drill-driver models are definitely more buttoned up.

It's really too bad HD doesn't stock the 2703's in store, or that Milwaukee doesn't have an M18 Fuel drill/impact combo kit that's non-hammer (and not One-Key).

I love my cordless Milwaukee hammer drills. I use them for putting in tapcons all the time. This summer I put in a bunch of 5/8" and 1/2" holes for expanding fasteners and it worked great too. I've even used my 12v hammer drill for 3/16" holes for tapcons and it worked fine. (Caveat: I HATE Tapcons. The Philips head ones are useless, the steel they use is crappy and they break often in hard concrete, if they don't cam out sometimes they don't actually hold, etc. I much prefer even the cheap plastic inserts you put a regular screw into.)

I have a Bosch SDS+ hammer and a Milwaukee SDS Max, but they are big heavy beasts and it's easier to use the little hammer drill.

 

[FigureItOut]

(Caveat: I HATE Tapcons. The Philips head ones are useless, the steel they use is crappy and they break often in hard concrete, if they don't cam out sometimes they don't actually hold, etc. I much prefer even the cheap plastic inserts you put a regular screw into.)

I used to have that problem and I thought tapcons were garbage too. When I started being very careful to make sure my holes were completely clean of dust, the problem went away. There's a tool that's similar to a miniature turkey baster that's supposed to work well to blow out the dust, but I haven't tried it.

 

[scarrylarry]

Milwaukee has 3 tiers for the 18v platform for drills and impact drivers

M18, Brushless, and Fuel
M18 use standard D.C. powered motors and standard electronics. Just like every tools has used since cordless tools were invented

Brushless uses brushless motors that are actually driven by ac power and are digitally controlled via electronic boards contained in the tools. They last longer and run cooler, but as far as torque specs go right now, the M18 brushed versions are still slightly stronger.

M18 Fuel is Milwaukee's top tier. EVERYTHING that says fuel will have Milwaukee's bigger, stronger Powerstate Brushless motors, that are also powered by ac electricity (all brushless motors are ac powered) and are digitally controlled. They are Milwaukee's best offering in the M18 line. That said, NONE of the lines are a bad choice, and any m18 battery will work with all m18 tools.

Red Lithium is Milwaukee's marketing term for their Lithium batteries. It's rumored that Milwaukee uses a specific battery chemistry that allows their Lithium batteries to operate in very cold temperatures without failing.

The only exception to this rule is the M18 surge impact driver. It is a hydraulically driven impact best suit for small and medium sized fasteners. It's quieter, and hits with smaller force behind it, but each impact lasts for a longer period of time helping to drive fasteners in.

Best advice to be given is to invest into a platform and not just the first few tools you buy. Milwaukee and Ridgid are both made by TTI, and by design, Milwaukee's tools will almost always outperform Ridgid in a side by side comparison. Milwaukee's line is also quite a bit more expansive than Ridgid.

Either brand will work, and there are a lot of mixed reviews on Ridgids warranty living up to its promise. Don't buy based on warranty. Buy based on what brand will fit your needs better. That said, Milwaukee has a HUGE following in here, and for a good reason. Many of us eventually wind up buying both the m18 and m12 lines since the tools are simply worth the money.

Kctyphoon
Thanks for the in depth explanation on the Milwaukee line up !
scarrylarry

 

[scarrylarry]

Thanks to all of you for your replies ! Helps a lot when making a decision !
scarrylarry

 

[Furious Filipino]

As people have mentioned, they are essentially made by the same company, but my experience with Milwaukee has been pretty good.

If I were in your situation, I would go for the brushless hammer-drill option. Hammer drills have their place for masonry and some light concrete drilling.

By light concrete work, I mean 1/4" - 3/8" diameter max on old aggregate filled concrete. If you only do this type of drilling a few times a year, you can just rent a rotary hammer. But...

If you ever work on anything with brick or real stucco walls, you will be glad you have a hammer drill.

 

[engineer2]

Since all the top brands are decent, see who offers the types of tools that fit your future needs. I find the cordless yard tools to be a god-send.
Number of cordless tools offered are approximate. Makita is high becuse they introduce improved versions while still selling the older versions.
Makita 175
Milwaukee 160
DeWalt 100
Ryobi 100
Rigid 40

 

[crewchief888]

I have some orange stuff, and some red stuff.

I won't be buying any more cordless orange tools.

I've never needed any repairs, warranty or otherwise, on the orange corded tools I have.

 

[powertrip]

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Feature...ffer-Tiered-Tool-Ryobi-Free-Tool/N-5yc1vZcik4

Something to consider.
Buy the Ryobi brushless hammer drill kit for $149 and get a free tool or battery. They make a brushless impact (P238) that would be free. The drill has plenty of power at 750 in lbs. Plus almost 100 other useful tools at reasonable prices that work with this battery platform. Batteries on Black Friday will be $80 for a 2 pack of 4.0ah. Good quality made by the same company that makes Ridgid and Milwaukee.

 

[kctyphoon]

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Feature...ffer-Tiered-Tool-Ryobi-Free-Tool/N-5yc1vZcik4

Something to consider.
Buy the Ryobi brushless hammer drill kit for $149 and get a free tool or battery. They make a brushless impact (P238) that would be free. The drill has plenty of power at 750 in lbs. Plus almost 100 other useful tools at reasonable prices that work with this battery platform. Batteries on Black Friday will be $80 for a 2 pack of 4.0ah. Good quality made by the same company that makes Ridgid and Milwaukee.

Just to compare the whole TTI - tier thing.. it's marketed Ryobi, Ridgid, Milwaukee.. this is actually a good example.. the m18 fuel drill specs out at like 1200 inch pounds of torque I think..

 

[Ign]

People get a little carried away with the TTI connection on this board, and want to believe their Ryobi is just as good as Ridgid (made under license for Emerson) and Milwaukee.

I've said it before but some people don't want to listen: Ford may build the Fiesta and the F350 but it doesn't mean they're the same product just because the parent company is the same. Or for the import guys a Corolla is not a Lexus even though they're both Toyota or Toyota-affiliated.

Give the TTI thing a rest guys, lots of products in this world have the same parent company in name, on paper or in financial holdings but that doesn't mean the products are comparable.

Now more than ever manufacturing allows a bottom-of-the-line tool to be built right alongside a flagship tool. I'm not saying Ryobi is bottom-of-the-line or Milwaukee is flagship, I'm merely saying they're very different. Ditto for Ridgid.

 

[dacuda]

i use all ridgid and no probs

 

[bcradio]

Since all the top brands are decent, see who offers the types of tools that fit your future needs. I find the cordless yard tools to be a god-send.
Number of cordless tools offered are approximate. Makita is high becuse they introduce improved versions while still selling the older versions.
Makita 175
Milwaukee 160
DeWalt 100
Ryobi 100
Rigid 40

I totally agree with this. I never realised how useful and convenient the cordless yard tools are. Those and my cordless vacuum are my most used milwaukee tools.

 

[scarrylarry]

Hi Again Fellas!

Huge Update !

So my better half knows I have been wanting some cordless tools and when I go to move a box from the back of the car today I see a two pack of Red Lithium 18 batteries . I said hey what's going on here > She just gave me a what a huge smile and said would you like your Christmas present now or later . Well........ How about now. She say's have a seat I will be in the house in a minute . In she comes with an M18 2696-24 Combo System

1/2 inch hammer drill driver,

1/4 hex impact driver - Sawzall - LED light and charger along with two free options so she picks up a 6 1/2 circular tool only and two additional batteries.

She's the greatest !
scarrylarry

 

[kctyphoon]

That's not a bad start at all. But ya spoiled Christmas!

 

[Fbmoose48]

People get a little carried away with the TTI connection on this board, and want to believe their Ryobi is just as good as Ridgid (made under license for Emerson) and Milwaukee.

I've said it before but some people don't want to listen: Ford may build the Fiesta and the F350 but it doesn't mean they're the same product just because the parent company is the same. Or for the import guys a Corolla is not a Lexus even though they're both Toyota or Toyota-affiliated.

Give the TTI thing a rest guys, lots of products in this world have the same parent company in name, on paper or in financial holdings but that doesn't mean the products are comparable.

Now more than ever manufacturing allows a bottom-of-the-line tool to be built right alongside a flagship tool. I'm not saying Ryobi is bottom-of-the-line or Milwaukee is flagship, I'm merely saying they're very different. Ditto for Ridgid.

Agreed. They're built to different price points for a reason. You can't combine the same high quality products used in an M18 Fuel tool and justify the cost of a Ryobi. The cost savings is realized somewhere, be it the molded plastic, gearing, motor, switch, MOSFETs, or whatever. You generally get what you paid for.

 

[IndyGarage]

If you've never had a cordless tool set, then either the Rigid or Milwaukee will be fine. Fuel is what Milwaukee called their brushless motors - it was a marketing win for them - but in reality offers a small amount of advantage over conventional motors.

The biggest thing to think about with any cordless tool is the batteries - will the batteries be available for a long time in the future at a reasonable price or will the manufacturer abandon the battery format for a new "improved" line in order to coerce you into buying all new tools. Milwaukee has done that in the past.

Personally, I use an impact 50:1 over a drill. I would probably skip buying anything but the lowest cost drill.

I wouldn't mess with the hammer drill option. I've found the cheap hammering mechanism on cordless drills to be almost useless, and it makes the drill bigger and heavier than it needs to be. I beat myself to death one time trying to drill concrete anchor holes with a milwaukee cordless with one of those "buzz hammers". Then I got an SDS hammer and drilled the holes I needed in 5 minutes.

 

[kythri]

I'm not saying Ryobi is bottom-of-the-line or Milwaukee is flagship, I'm merely saying they're very different. Ditto for Ridgid.

I've made no secret about being a Ryobi evangelist. I'm not trying to compare the brands, myself, however, I will say:

The only reason to buy Ridgid is because of their nonsense battery warranty hype, which isn't what it's cracked up to be. Too many reports here of people getting shafted by the warranty loopholes.

I'm not saying buy Ryobi over Ridgid. I'm saying, buy ANYTHING ELSE over Ridgid. Take away that shady battery warranty, and you've got nothing special at all, save a semi-premium price tag.

 

[Ign]

Hi Again Fellas!

Huge Update !

So my better half knows I have been wanting some cordless tools and when I go to move a box from the back of the car today I see a two pack of Red Lithium 18 batteries . I said hey what's going on here > She just gave me a what a huge smile and said would you like your Christmas present now or later . Well........ How about now. She say's have a seat I will be in the house in a minute . In she comes with an M18 2696-24 Como System

1/2 inch hammer drill driver,

1/4 hex impact driver - Sawzall - LED light and charger along with two free options so she picks up a 6 1/2 circular tool only and two additional batteries.

She's the greatest !
scarrylarry

Nice. The only problem you have now is that this is just the beginning of the addiction. Remember when you were a kid and toys would say, “Collect them all!” Yep

 

[peteco]

I've made no secret about being a Ryobi evangelist. I'm not trying to compare the brands, myself, however, I will say:

The only reason to buy Ridgid is because of their nonsense battery warranty hype, which isn't what it's cracked up to be. Too many reports here of people getting shafted by the warranty loopholes.

I'm not saying buy Ryobi over Ridgid. I'm saying, buy ANYTHING ELSE over Ridgid. Take away that shady battery warranty, and you've got nothing special at all, save a semi-premium price tag.

I have had 5 Ridgid batteries replaced over the past 9 years with no problem. This year the 9-year old Ni-Cad batteries died on the first Ridgid drill I ever bought. They replaced them no problem. I have had a charger replaced, and a trigger mechanism replaced. Again no problems. You do have to register the tools properly, which isn't hard. So my experience with Ridgid has been great and that is the only cordless tool I buy, unless there is not a Ridgid version, so I buy the Ryobi, which has as extensive a lineup of tools as anyone. Plus I can use my Ridgid 4 A-hr batteries on those tools using the adapter shown here:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4626036

 

[kythri]

I have had 5 Ridgid batteries replaced over the past 9 years with no problem.

Sadly, your experience is not the reported norm.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

It's already been mentioned, but I always go for a non-hammer cordless drill to keep size/weight down, and use a corded SDS rotary hammer. If I needed a cordless hammer drill that much, I'd get a small SDS cordless.

As far as brand, I prefer Milwaukee because of the interconnection between M12 and M18 lines, of which I have both. They also have a wider option of tools. But I know a lot of guys who use Ridgid and really like them. Good warranty with Ridgid but I wouldn't want to have to rely on that.

 

[ptgarcia]

Hi Again Fellas!

Huge Update !

So my better half knows I have been wanting some cordless tools and when I go to move a box from the back of the car today I see a two pack of Red Lithium 18 batteries . I said hey what's going on here > She just gave me a what a huge smile and said would you like your Christmas present now or later . Well........ How about now. She say's have a seat I will be in the house in a minute . In she comes with an M18 2696-24 Como System

1/2 inch hammer drill driver,

1/4 hex impact driver - Sawzall - LED light and charger along with two free options so she picks up a 6 1/2 circular tool only and two additional batteries.

She's the greatest !
scarrylarry

Right on! I'd be stoked with that gift!

 

[Ign]

About 2 weeks ago I sent in a 2407 (M12 3/8” drill) for warranty repair. This poor drill has been used hard in light to medium production work. In the past couple years it’s deburred tens of thousands of holes in 6061, as deep as a 90 degree 3/8” c-sink will reasonably go.

I didn’t have my receipt but you can see it was built in the 26th week of 2014, so it doesn’t matter. Milwaukee generated the FedEx label for me and paid shipping both ways.

Just moments ago a Milwaukee box appeared on my deck. Inside is a repaired 2407, apparently new switch and new motor. No registration, no paperwork, no certificates.

Even without my receipt I’m good ‘til the 26th week of ‘19. If it dies after that I’ll thank it for its service, scrap (recycle) it and buy the latest M12 equivalent

edit: resolution got cut in uploads, sorry