18V Li batteries, the same?

[Badasssapper67]

Last time I was at Home Depot I noticed that the Makita and other batteries looked like they'd slide right into my Bosch drill. The 12v too. When I got home I took a second look at my batteries and saw that there are several slots on the batteries where metal contact points meet the drill.

That got me to wondering, are all the batteries made in one factory and simply arranged the contact strips differently? I ask because Bosch makes a big deal about how they only use the finest raw, virgin Lithium from lake Titicaca and they don't use recycled lithium like the other companies do. I'd be curious to see if a Bosch battery would actually be "better" in the real world than a Makita or Milwaukee battery and if it would be easy to modify the battery to work in other drills. If one company made the best do-hicky and ther rest of their line sucked, you could modify were the contact points are on the tool and all of your tools would work off of one battery.

 

[rice rocket]

You could probably count the number of battery suppliers on two hands, there's not that many.

LG, Sony, Sanyo, Samsung, A123, who else am I missing?

 

[mrvm]

if it would be easy to modify the battery to work in other drills. If one company made the best do-hicky and ther rest of their line sucked, you could modify were the contact points are on the tool and all of your tools would work off of one battery.

Not an easy task these days to simply modify case/contact points between different brands of lithium batteries. Today's batteries have more electronics involved that will make this project very difficult. Swapping lithium cells is possible but soldering contacts on lithium batteries takes specialized skills and equipment

 

[BMack37]

Does anyone have a list of what's on the inside of what?

I know that Dewalt 20V is Sanyo(Panasonic) and Milwaukee M18 is Samsung.

I wonder if (though not compatible out of the box) Dewalt, B&D and PC use the same cells.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I wonder if (though not compatible out of the box) Dewalt, B&D and PC use the same cells.

I cannot confirm but I imagine they would since they are all under stanley-black&decker.

 

[inline five]

Milwaukee, Ridgid, and Ryobi use the same cells.

 

[BMack37]

I cannot confirm but I imagine they would since they are all under stanley-black&decker.

That's exactly my thought process.

Edit: Though I have seen some weird things in manufacturing. Just last week I saw a Sharp LCD panel in a Samsung TV...Samsung is a MUCH bigger manufacturer of LCDs than Sharp.

 

[MikeF2316]

I can't see why virgin lithium would be any better than recycled, provided it's purified properly. The stuff that comes out of the ground is mixed with all kinds of dirt, rocks and who knows what else.

The big thing is keeping the impurities out, ie controlling the chemistry. The better they do that, the more durable/powerful the cell.

In my experience, cheap batteries are a waste of money, whether they are lead-acid, alkaline, or lithium-ion or anything else.

 

[Negen]

the cells are consistently being improved. Only in the higher end tools will you see the higher capacity cells. Some of the higher amp hr cells do better at high current discharges and some do better at lower current discharges. Tools require higher current discharges of course so finding a cell that can maintain charge capacity over an extended high current drain period is something that is consistently being sought out.

Most packs I have seen are made of 18650 cells which have a full charged voltage of 4.2v. These cells should not be brought down to less than 3.15. The battery packs have cutoff circuits in them that cutoff between 3.15 and 3.4 depending on required specs. Some cells can be brought down all the way to 2.5volts depending on the chemtech in used in that cells design. This is one reason that quick chargers work because the cell is not fully drained.

When panasonin,lg-chem, sony, or samsung create a new cell and it is released to market it will take probably about 4-12 months before that cell is ready to be put in a battery pack. Before a cell it ready it is certainly reasonable to expect the cell manufactures to release data sheets to their biggest customers so that they can get started on cad work designing a battery pack for when the cell is released.

I would not think that every battery pack from a given tool manufacture uses the exact same cell. One more thing to note is there seems to a wall hit right now with 20 volts (max) being the peak output of a single pack. It would be difficult to measure a dill motors input or running voltage I would think. Also I suspect that those 20volt maxx are not running at 20volts for more than a few minutes.

Here is a link to some testing results of one of the last Sanyo cells ever made.
http://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-w...inspecting-the-new-panasonic-sanyo-ncr18650bf

Their main site which has some good info on the top cells currently being used to make packs. http://batterybro.com/

 

[rice rocket]

I would not think that every battery pack from a given tool manufacture uses the exact same cell.

This is true, each cell has its own discharge characteristics, including heat dissipation, max amps out, voltage drop under load, etc.

Though you'll see 3400mAh lithium cells (which would make a 6.8Ah battery in most 18/20v configurations) on the market nowadays, most of these won't meet the high amperage requirements of most power tools.

Even most 2500mAh IMR cells have better load capacity than the 3000mAh, which is why 6Ah battery introductions have been so slow. Bosch seems to have "solved" the heat dissipation issues perhaps since 6.0Ah batteries are available in Europe.

 

[BMack37]

the cells are consistently being improved. Only in the higher end tools will you see the higher capacity cells. Some of the higher amp hr cells do better at high current discharges and some do better at lower current discharges. Tools require higher current discharges of course so finding a cell that can maintain charge capacity over an extended high current drain period is something that is consistently being sought out.

Most packs I have seen are made of 18650 cells which have a full charged voltage of 4.2v. These cells should not be brought down to less than 3.15. The battery packs have cutoff circuits in them that cutoff between 3.15 and 3.4 depending on required specs. Some cells can be brought down all the way to 2.5volts depending on the chemtech in used in that cells design. This is one reason that quick chargers work because the cell is not fully drained.

When panasonic,lg-chem, sony, or samsung create a new cell and it is released to market it will take probably about 4-12 months before that cell is ready to be put in a battery pack. Before a cell it ready it is certainly reasonable to expect the cell manufactures to release data sheets to their biggest customers so that they can get started on cad work designing a battery pack for when the cell is released.

I would not think that every battery pack from a given tool manufacture uses the exact same cell. One more thing to note is there seems to a wall hit right now with 20 volts (max) being the peak output of a single pack. It would be difficult to measure a dill motors input or running voltage I would think. Also I suspect that those 20volt maxx are not running at 20volts for more than a few minutes.

Here is a link to some testing results of one of the last Sanyo cells ever made.
http://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-w...inspecting-the-new-panasonic-sanyo-ncr18650bf

Their main site which has some good info on the top cells currently being used to make packs. http://batterybro.com/

Great post but highlighting Panasonic to remind people that when you say "Panasonic" it essentially means Sanyo. A lot of people don't realize that Panasonic purchased Sanyo for Sanyo's battery production. Sanyo raised the bar soo high on rechargeable batteries, I never thought I'd have a rechargeable battery that outlasted a brand name one-time-use battery...but Enloops are the longest lasting batteries I've ever used.

 

[Negen]

It is my understanding that panosonic will drop sanyo and that the ncr18650bf will be the last cell with a sanyo label. The cells I have are panasonic cells ncr18650B that I use in my flashlight.

 

[BMack37]

It is my understanding that panosonic will drop sanyo and that the ncr18650bf will be the last cell with a sanyo label. The cells I have are panasonic cells ncr18650B that I use in my flashlight.

They already dropped the majority of Sanyo electronics, they sold it to a Chinese company that I cannot recall the name. I imagine (pure speculation) they will keep the cell technology and sell the name. They rebranded the Sanyo Enloops several months ago.