1947 Delta Unisaw Question

[apittmanii]

Someone down the road from me posted this on Craigslist for $500. I have no experience with vintage table saws, but I love the look of this saw and the condition it is in. He claims the saw was not restored and is all original. It comes with the mobile base depicted in the photos.

Assuming I am able to get the gentleman to $400, that is still a lot of money for me. Assuming everything works on the saw, is this a good deal?

Is there anything in particular with these saws that I should be on the lookout to check besides whether the electric motor runs correctly and everything seems to work?

I am also checking on the bench grinder in the back of one of the photos.

 

[Redboy]

It looks original but I've never seen a blue Unisaw. Painted. Nice that it has the original motor cover still (they're fragile, and often missing). I bet he'll get close to his asking price for it.

It'll need some good cleaning at minimum. Probably needs belts and may have a bad arbor bearing, but all those things can be done and the end result would be a beauty of a saw...

 

[apittmanii]

It looks original but I've never seen a blue Unisaw. Painted. Nice that it has the original motor cover still (they're fragile, and often missing). I bet he'll get close to his asking price for it.

It'll need some good cleaning at minimum. Probably needs belts and may have a bad arbor bearing, but all those things can be done and the end result would be a beauty of a saw...

Thanks. Cleaning and belt replacement I can definitely do. I am also not finding a blue vintage unisaw. I'll also check the arbor bearing.

 

[t4runner]

Its not uncommon for the trunnion stop to be broken (on the elevation one) This isn't a big deal but its something to look for. Also check the condition of both trunnions as far as operation and condition ( no broken teeth on the gears) you will have to stick your head inside the cabinet to get a good look. Although the fence is serviceable in all likelihood you'll want to change it to something better. As far as the price Im a cheapskate when it comes to buying used so I would make an offer in the $300 range or lower if you think he will go for it. Thats my two cents worth.

 

[apittmanii]

Its not uncommon for the trunnion stop to be broken (on the elevation one) This isn't a big deal but its something to look for. Also check the condition of both trunnions as far as operation and condition ( no broken teeth on the gears) you will have to stick your head inside the cabinet to get a good look. Although the fence is serviceable in all likelihood you'll want to change it to something better. As far as the price Im a cheapskate when it comes to buying used so I would make an offer in the $300 range or lower if you think he will go for it. Thats my two cents worth.

Thank you, I'll check the trunnions carefully. I'm usually a cheapskate also, but man I really want this saw if everything works great. If he replies that he has an offer for full price, I will more than likely offer a little over. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[bubinga]

lol, I got a 47 Uni, .

 

[pacmktg]

Go for it. It is a great saw and if nothing major is wrong that is a good price.

 

[4Kings]

I'd be all over that even at $500. I have a newer 80's Unisaw but have always coveted one of the vintage ones. It's definitely been repainted though.

 

[apittmanii]

I'd be all over that even at $500. I have a newer 80's Unisaw but have always coveted one of the vintage ones. It's definitely been repainted though.

I am keeping my fingers crossed it's not sold yet. I am really starting to think it's been repainted also. If so, it appears to be a decent job. I'll let you know if i get a chance to look at it up close.

 

[My Old Tools]

It has definitely been restored at sometime in its life. The Phillips head screws on the switch are not original. Also the serial number tag was not screwed on, they used small round head brads called drive screws. Paint is unlikely too especially since the fence is gray. Everyone I've ever seen has been gray or over painted. That said they are great saws. The oval motor cover is much coveted. The original art deco switches are cool.

 

[apittmanii]

It has definitely been restored at sometime in its life. The Phillips head screws on the switch are not original. Also the serial number tag was not screwed on, they used small round head brads called drive screws. Paint is unlikely too especially since the fence is gray. Everyone I've ever seen has been gray or over painted. That said they are great saws. The oval motor cover is much coveted. The original art deco switches are cool.

Great point about the fence. That looks to be the color (light grey) of most of the others I have seen online that are from the 1940's. Thanks for the insight on the number tag.

 

[toolmiser]

The motor covers themselves can easily fetch $250.00. I don't think $500.00 is a bad price to pay for it.

 

[bubinga]

The motor covers themselves can easily fetch $250.00. I don't think $500.00 is a bad price to pay for it.

Yep was just gonna say. $200.00 easy.
Mine had it and the dust door.
I put a Bies fence on it.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Could be a reproduction motor cover but no matter how you look at it, baring major internal issues, $500 is a reasonable price, $400 is a great price, and $750 or higher wouldn't be unexpected around here. I'm with My_Old_Tools and others though, it may not have been 'restored' but it has been painted. Some minor hardware has certainly been 'updated'.

I just double checked the serial number and noticed the sample tag on Vintage Machinery is only one digit off, 60-4642 vs 60-4643. Meaningless but cool.

 

[apittmanii]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Unfortunately the ad has been deleted and it's no longer available. Bummer!

 

[kentenn]

Here's what's possible....my 1945 unisaw. And yes the goose egg is worth $200.

 

[t4runner]

Just to give you an idea of whats out there I paid $150 for this unisaw minus the fence system and roller base. Now don't get me wrong it was a mess but it cleaned up nice.

 

[cptn_zippy]

$150 for any unisaw is a "you ****" price.

J

 

[7th Kahuna]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Unfortunately the ad has been deleted and it's no longer available. Bummer!

Don't be discouraged. You may just have been infected with the old tool bug. The symptoms may come on slowly at first.

I can't tell you how many times I've learned about a tool only after seeing one and asking a question like yours. And like you, by the time I knew I had a deal, it was too late. Fortunately, its unlikely that was the only Unisaw in your neighborhood. There will be another chance and you will be better prepared. Take this opportunity to ask questions and learn about some of the other tools you might need.

If restoration is something you might try, start to learn about the process. Popular Woodworking posted a nice video series on restoring a 1940's Unisaw. You can find them on youtube. Check out RedLeader's 1950's Craftsman Garage. Full of good information.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103099

That thread alone is responsible for bringing a good number of us onto the board.

My first table saw was second hand modern Dewalt bench saw. A couple years later, after I was bit by the bug, I picked up a $100 early 1960's Craftsman cabinet saw (similar to the Unisaw). Then I decided I really needed a Unisaw (the bug can be painful). I have since picked up a 1946 Unisaw. It is in really rough shape and I may end up trading it for one in better shape, just depends on which shows up first, another deal on a saw, or the space and time to fix the one I have. I'm hoping for another deal. It wouldn't be the first time.

Good luck in your search.

 

[goingtoarizona]

Regardless if you buy this unit or not, these are beautiful, working works of art. There's nothing better than using a fine , well made tool that's even older than I am!

 

[exmaxima1]

And take a look at the motor. Those early Unisaws had a strange "Induction-repulsion" motor that used brushes. You may need to do some restoration like bearings or brushes, or (ideally) get a newer motor of at least 3 hp-----original motor is only around 1hp AFAIK.

 

[bubinga]

I could be wrong but from what I understand in my reading that one horsepower replace an induction motor or the other way around is 1 horsepower is a more powerful one horsepower than today's 1 horsepower

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[collmorgen]

If you get the saw, a good resource is the forum Old Woodworking Machines (owwm.org).

 

[guy48065]

I could be wrong but from what I understand in my reading that one horsepower replace an induction motor or the other way around is 1 horsepower is a more powerful one horsepower than today's 1 horsepower

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I've heard that as well. There's a lot more rotating mass in that old beast than in any new induction motor, and if it uses brushes it likely has far more start-up torque. Those 2 factors make it "feel" much more powerful.

One thing I like about the Delta line is they kept the major dimensions constant as the years/versions went on. I have a '58 shaper siamesed to a '82 Unisaw. I added a magnetic motor starter to the old shaper for safety.

 

[bubinga]

Sweet!

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[7th Kahuna]

1 horsepower is a more powerful one horsepower than today's 1 horsepower

I've seen that too. Somewhere I read that that the original 1 hp Unisaw motor was equal to some 3 hp motors today. Not sure if I believe it, but a lot of 1 hp saws were sold and generally speaking, wood was a lot denser (old growth) in the 40's and 50's. Then, more recently, there was the issue of manufacturers listing ('maximum developed horsepower' ?) rather than running horse power. I remember the lawsuits 10 or more years ago. In any case, you probably want to stick with the motor it comes with if at all possible. For many years, Delta used a custom mount for the Unisaw motors. You can still buy them new, no problem, but they will add considerably to your cost. Better to find something you can work with from the start.

 

[exmaxima1]

I've seen that too. Somewhere I read that that the original 1 hp Unisaw motor was equal to some 3 hp motors today. Not sure if I believe it, but a lot of 1 hp saws were sold and generally speaking, wood was a lot denser (old growth) in the 40's and 50's.

Saw blades were much different back then as well. No carbide blades with their wide kerfs. Hollow-ground "planer" blades were much more popular and used a fraction of the power to cut. Plus, true rip blades were regularly used which were far more efficient (for ripping only) than modern carbide combination blades.

I'm sure that a vintage 1hp motor used in conjunction with a thin-kerf carbide blade will be plenty adequate, but I disagree that any old 1hp motor is the equal of a modern industrial grade 3hp motor. FWIW, I have a 3hp motor on my Uni, and I don't feel its excessive, especially when ripping maple or cherry where you must keep a good feed to avoid burning.

 

[7th Kahuna]

I'm sure that a vintage 1hp motor used in conjunction with a thin-kerf carbide blade will be plenty adequate, but I disagree that any old 1hp motor is the equal of a modern industrial grade 3hp motor. FWIW, I have a 3hp motor on my Uni, and I don't feel its excessive, especially when ripping maple or cherry where you must keep a good feed to avoid burning.

Well there's your problem, you're ripping maple and cherry. Probably 5/4 and 4/4 and not using an appropriate walnut stain.

Seriously, I would only expect that the original motor might be more powerful than a similar horse power motor today. Interestingly, I was looking at a pair of grinders recently, a vintage 1/3 hp (brand forgotten) and a modern 3/4 hp DeWalt. The 1/3 hp motor drew significantly more amps than the 3/4 hp. What does that say about the relative power of the two units, assuming one isn't simply acting as a space heater? I need to learn more about motors.

I know the blade makes a big difference. May I ask what you are using? Do you have favorites?

 

[exmaxima1]

Well there's your problem, you're ripping maple and cherry. Probably 5/4 and 4/4 and not using an appropriate walnut stain.

Seriously, I would only expect that the original motor might be more powerful than a similar horse power motor today. Interestingly, I was looking at a pair of grinders recently, a vintage 1/3 hp (brand forgotten) and a modern 3/4 hp DeWalt. The 1/3 hp motor drew significantly more amps than the 3/4 hp. What does that say about the relative power of the two units, assuming one isn't simply acting as a space heater? I need to learn more about motors.

I know the blade makes a big difference. May I ask what you are using? Do you have favorites?

I use various blades and change them for the required tasks. I use mainly Freud blades in both crosscut and rip versions, and a handful of various brands I accumulated over the years. I will say that Freud Industrial blades seem every bit as good as the fancy Forrest blade I bought. I have thin kerf blades for maximizing yield with expensive woods, and cheap carbide blades for cutting old plywood or wolmanized lumber. Special blades for non-ferrous metals. And that's the beauty of a Unisaw with adequate horsepower: it will cut most anything. If you have a saw with limited power (like my old CM saw at work) you have less options.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Thanks garage journal, now I want a unisaw when I just bought a dewalt jobsite saw. Not sure how I'm going to convince the wife I need another table saw.

 

[Whitworth]

1 HP is 1 HP. There is no magic to earlier motors. It may have double the torque to half the rpm's relative to a newer motor, otherwise 1 HP is the same regardless.

 

[Zeke]

1 HP is 1 HP. There is no magic to earlier motors. It may have double the torque to half the rpm's relative to a newer motor, otherwise 1 HP is the same regardless.

Tell that to the people who slap labels on air compressors.

 

[7th Kahuna]

I use various blades and change them for the required tasks. I use mainly Freud blades in both crosscut and rip versions, and a handful of various brands I accumulated over the years. I will say that Freud Industrial blades seem every bit as good as the fancy Forrest blade I bought. I have thin kerf blades for maximizing yield with expensive woods, and cheap carbide blades for cutting old plywood or wolmanized lumber. Special blades for non-ferrous metals. And that's the beauty of a Unisaw with adequate horsepower: it will cut most anything. If you have a saw with limited power (like my old CM saw at work) you have less options.

Thanks, good to know. I am of course familiar with Forrest though I've never used one, I'll have to check out Freud Industrial. I hate to let wolmanized anywhere near my good tools, especially if it has been kicking around a while.

 

[Zeke]

Thanks, good to know. I am of course familiar with Forrest though I've never used one, I'll have to check out Freud Industrial. I hate to let wolmanized anywhere near my good tools, especially if it has been kicking around a while.

That's why you have a circular saw.

 

[beamrider]

Here's what's possible....my 1945 unisaw. And yes the goose egg is worth $200.

GEEZ that is gorgeous! Any chance of a high-res photo?

 

[kentenn]

GEEZ that is gorgeous! Any chance of a high-res photo?

Sorry for the delayed response...just saw this...Uploaded hi-res but I think the forum reduced it...

 

[Roberts210]

$500 for that saw is a good deal. I wouldn't wait too long to make him the $400 offer, and I would do it in person with $500 in my pocket in case he is firm on $500.

The vintage Delta Unisaw motors are much coveted. They are repulsion-start/induction run (RI) motors, referred to as Bullet Motors. They are torquey little buggers. Being larger in diameter than modern motors they are rated at a lower H.P. but will out perform any 1.5 H.P. modern motor available. Personally I believe they are closer to 2 H.P. if rated as modern motors are.

Before I got this I had an '80's Rockwell Tilting Arbor saw with a Rockwell 1.5 H.P. motor and this '65 motor has much more torque and can power through heavier stock without slowing.

I also swapped my Bieseimeyer fence from the Rockwell T.A. onto the Uni.

Check if the goose-egg is cast iron. Repro's made from fiberglass are out there, but no one to my knowledge is repro-ing them in cast iron. Just the goose-eggs sell for $200 as others have said.

I too believe your Uni has been restored, as they did not make blue ones.

I bought this '65 Uni in 2008 for $35 from a guy who had gotten it for nothing at an auction. It had no dust door and no goose-egg but did have the stock (crummy I.M.O.) fence which I sold for $75. Here it is in my old horse trailer headed home. It did have the top--I just removed it to get the saw moved. Later I did buy an original cast-iron goose egg for about $200.

And after I restored it but before I got my cast-iron goose egg.

Many goose-eggs were removed because of motor over-heating problems and once removed seem to have disappeared. Every once in a while someone finds one in a junkyard, or being used a an in-ground planter.

 

[Roberts210]

The paint is '65 Ford tractor gray.

 

[beamrider]

Sorry for the delayed response...just saw this...Uploaded hi-res but I think the forum reduced it...

I still think this saw should be in a display case somewhere. I'm all for tools being used, but I think I'd go ******* if it got a scratch on it.

 

[bczygan]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Unfortunately the ad has been deleted and it's no longer available. Bummer!

You are doing a lot of buying and selling. Are you trying to set up a shop?

If so, photos?

Bill