1970s outlet fix?

[David9726]

I'm trying to fix a outside outlet from the 70's. There is no ground and the gang box is metal and looks smaller than normal plus there is a broken off screw in the gang box that is used to hold in the outlet.

This gang box is in a brick wall that is cemented in. Would a electrician replace the gang box or try to get out the broken off screw? No electrician wants to mess with it when you call them.

Do they make smaller receptacles? The gang box is so small the screws on the outlet almost touch the gang box, i actually shorted it out when it touched it did trip a breaker.

 

[larry4406]

A picture is worth a thousand words here.

 

[acer66]

1+ to pics, one way to deal with the issue is to cover the contacts of the receptacle with electrical tape.
A better solution might be if you have the space to install an exterior surface mounted box or extension over it and install the receptacle preferable a gfci in there.

 

[TRWham]

By the 70s, grounds, but not GFCI, were required. Is the box grounded via conduit? If so, and the outlet is self-grounding, there may be no ground wire.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The first time GFCI was required for all outdoor receptacles was in 1973.

 

[TRWham]

The first time GFCI was required for all outdoor receptacles was in 1973.

Yes, in the '71 NEC effective January 1, 1973. Given delays in adoption of codes across various jurisdictions, I am never surprised to see houses built well into the 60s without grounded outlets, or across the 70s with no GFCI.

We are currently working on a house built in 1890, with at least three generations of wiring (knob and tube, fabric covered non-metallic 2 wire, and modernish 3 wire NM with a light blue sheath I have not seen before). Some rooms have three different outlet styles, though the older ones are apparently abandoned.

 

[David9726]

Sorry for the delay, here are some pics. Notice the broken off screw.

 

[rlitman]

You can drill and tap that broken off screw.
A small GFI will fit in there. Those have recessed screws and back wire clamps that won’t touch the box. And the GFI doesn’t require a ground.

 

[yeldogt]

That looks like a plastic jacket --- Have never seen w/o a ground. Make sure they did not loop the ground wires under the clamp screw -- clean out well and check. It was a common way to do it years ago.

GFI is the way to go.

 

[Bert_]

That's a pretty standard metal box. A GFCI will fit without to much fuss. A masonry box would have been a better choice and would put the device screws on the inside but it is what it is.

That screw wouldn't be to bad to drill out. Make sure the new screws get some anti-seize so it doesn't happen again.

Lots of plastic jacket NM with no ground wire out there.

 

[The Cobbler]

as said previous, that screw will be fairly easy to get out . lube it up with penetrating fluid drill a small center hole in it . upsize the bit . the heat will probably be enough to loosen it
worst case you ****** up the threads & have to re tap it.
The GFI can be mounted upstream of that outlet, is this a dedicated outdoor circuit?

edit, just realized it has other wires so it's not dedicated circuit

 

[yeldogt]

That's a pretty standard metal box. A GFCI will fit without to much fuss. A masonry box would have been a better choice and would put the device screws on the inside but it is what it is.

That screw wouldn't be to bad to drill out. Make sure the new screws get some anti-seize so it doesn't happen again.

Lots of plastic jacket NM with no ground wire out there.

Interesting ......Never have seen --- we had a lot of the fabric stuff with the thin ground from the 50-60

 

[Bert_]

Seems like it was available with or without ground for a while. Without ground got used for lights and stuff that did not have to be grounded at the time. I see a bunch of it in farm buildings where they used the bakelite surface mount lights, switches and outlets.

 

[Norcal]

That's a pretty standard metal box. A GFCI will fit without to much fuss. A masonry box would have been a better choice and would put the device screws on the inside but it is what it is.

That screw wouldn't be to bad to drill out. Make sure the new screws get some anti-seize so it doesn't happen again.

Lots of plastic jacket NM with no ground wire out there.

This I agree with, there was a lot of NM & UF sold without a grounding conductor, would guess it depended on how quick the 1965 NEC was adopted, the 16 AWG grounding conductor ended with either the 1968 or 1971 NEC.

 

[David9726]

You can drill and tap that broken off screw.
A small GFI will fit in there. Those have recessed screws and back wire clamps that won’t touch the box. And the GFI doesn’t require a ground.

I can only find a slim GFCI but it still has the screws on the sides. I know i have seen outlets where all you have to do is push the wires into a spring locked hole on the back.

Thanks for the help!

 

[rlitman]

I can only find a slim GFCI but it still has the screws on the sides. I know i have seen outlets where all you have to do is push the wires into a spring locked hole on the back.



Thanks for the help!

GFCI outlets usually have holes under the screws. They’re not the push in spring grip ****. The screws are used to clamp on the wires that go into the holes.