1972 Triumph Spitfire (1st official project)

[Tscott]

So the first real complete build I will be doing in the new shop will be my father in laws 1972 Triumph Spitfire MK IV. He is footing the bill for all materials and services, and I get a free project to work on. I think it's a pretty sweet deal. Ultimately I want to build custom cars as a hobby / side job, so this seems like a great opportunity to get some more experience and have something that shows my skill.


Here she is in all her 70's yellow glory.
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Condition is not too bad. Some old bondo from the previous owner, and some body work, but she seems straight.
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The interior will be completely redone. I think this dash is a handyman special.
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The motor is small but so is the car, we are going to go back with either the same engine rebuilt or maybe a re manufactured one from one of the big British parts houses.
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I began removing the interior Sunday evening, and got all of it out up to the dash. The plan is to strip in down to the frame and get the body and frame blasted or hot dipped. I know there are blasters locally, but can't seem to find a chemical dipper in North Florida, anyone know of any in the area?

I know very little about the the old British cars, except the wiring ***** and I am too big to drive them (seriously though, I can sit in it, but can't move my legs to clutch or shift and my head stick up over the windscreen), so any of you British car lovers feel free to chime in.

Oh I should also tell you I have hired an assistant to help with the work, but all he has done so far is sit on his ****. It's so hard to find good help.
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Tom

 

[Pappa Ugg]

Nice project car.. good luck

 

[djjsr]

Looks like it in great shape. If you decide to change the color, I recommend British Racing Green. It looks great on any sportscar, especially if it's British.

I had a '65 MGB many years ago and, after doing some rewiring, it was a fun car. It was a twin to this one ......

 

[CraigFL]

I had a '65 Spitfire for a few years and it was a great little car. Four friends and myself went to get pizza in it one day... Easy to work on.

 

[widerberg]

Awesome project. I'm still working on mine, a 1500. I bought her in 2001 and, well, life got in the way. Still waiting to find the time to restore her (but, of course, that hasn't stopped me from buying two more projects).

 

[billspit]

I think you are going to find this car is a hodge podge of cars. The tank sitting over the intake is from an earlier Mk I Spitfire. No idea why it's on this car, but the radistor may also be a Mk I radiator. The dash is different from the correct ones, but not a bad thing.

You better like to weld. I see some potential patching on the sills and lower rear fenders.

 

[Tscott]

I think you are going to find this car is a hodge podge of cars. The tank sitting over the intake is from an earlier Mk I Spitfire. No idea why it's on this car, but the radiator may also be a Mk I radiator. The dash is different from the correct ones, but not a bad thing.

You better like to weld. I see some potential patching on the sills and lower rear fenders.

Yeah, my father in law has had in for probably 20 years, and drove it like it is for about 12 of them, it has sat in his garage since. He did very little to the car and I have noticed a number of "custom" touches. The previous own appears to have tried very hard to fix it up, but really did not do a very good job. He also preferred paint brushes to spray cans. Most parts that black on the car look like he painted them by hand.

The body work looks to be the worst of the problems with the car. Depending on the time I want too put into it, I may just replace the cheaper panels instead of patching them. I will know more when I get her stripped and she comes home from the baster (A few moths from now if I get my way).

Awesome project. I'm still working on mine, a 1500. I bought her in 2001 and, well, life got in the way. Still waiting to find the time to restore her (but, of course, that hasn't stopped me from buying two more projects).

I think I am going to swap out the existing engine for a 1500 version. It is probably the biggest power improvement I can make without totally re-engineering the engine compartment.

Tom

 

[Jack Olsen]

It's a beautiful car.

When I was in college I had a 73 (1500). Not a 'driver's car,' really, but it's still a lot of fun to drive -- if that makes any sense. It's the kind of car women will toss their phone numbers into.

 

[3798j]

Tom, Looks like a good project - plus you'll find they're fun cars to own and drive.
If you're looking for help/advice, try here: http://www.britishcarforum.com/ There's a wealth knowledgeable people willing to answer questions.
This is my GT6 (it's the 6 cyl. coupe version). I enjoy the heck out of it.

 

[e-tek]

Re-did one of theses in college - absolutely LOV'D ripping around corners in it!!!

 

[thammel]

I'm a TR nut from way back. I've owned 3 TR-250's and one TR-6 which I totally restored to show car condition. A buddy had a Spitfire years ago which we spent a fair amount of time on. If you aren't aware of the Roadster Factory in PA or Moss Motors based in CA, check them out. They are 2 of the prime British parts suppliers in the country. Once you get everything worked out it will be a really fun car. If it were me I'd go for souping up the engine a bit. Also, look into new front and rear sway bars to flatten the cornering.

Tom

 

[930dreamer]

Tom, Looks like a good project - plus you'll find they're fun cars to own and drive.
If you're looking for help/advice, try here: http://www.britishcarforum.com/ There's a wealth knowledgeable people willing to answer questions.
This is my GT6 (it's the 6 cyl. coupe version). I enjoy the heck out of it.

Very nice GT-6, in high school a buddy bought my cousins GT-6. We were always working on it. I like the remote start button in the engine bay.

 

[Vinko]

I hope the fasteners are all whitworth. Maybe this is a good chance for some new wrenches

 

[billspit]

I hope the fasteners are all whitworth. Maybe this is a good chance for some new wrenches

The only funky fittings I've found on mine are on the carbs. Otherwise just good old standard.

Another good source of parts is Spitbits, also in california.

 

[Tscott]

So far all the bolts have been a mix of metric and SAE. I do need to go out and et a second full set of metric wrenches though. Until now, I gotten by with a few of the common wrench sizes and a full set of sockets, but this is a good time to get a full set of metric wrenches. No whitworth yet I don't think. I did find some odd ball nut sizes on the window wiper assemblies under the dash. Neither metric nor SAE would fit, but the trusty adjustable got them off no problem.


The surprise last night was the dash. It was definitely a handyman special, Only, he was not very handy. Here is the dash before it was removed.

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As you can see he added a glove box on the right, and an interesting set of gauges and indicators in the center cluster. He reused a number of the original gauges, but none were completely functioning. Most of the indicator lights built into the factory gauges were bypassed and the indicator lights in the center console replaced them.

Upon removal of the dash, I found out that Bubba had to cut the **** out of the original sheet metal dash to fit his "custom" one in. Here you can see the passenger side dash has been pretty well mutilated.

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Along with the center and drivers side. View media item 4066
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You can also tell the previous owner was Italian by the spaghetti he left behind the dash.

Here is a shot of the whole interior as I left it last night around 9:00pm

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Also a few more shots of the engine for fun.

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If it were me I'd go for souping up the engine a bit

Thammel, what are some common modifications to these little guys? Or are you talking complete motor swap?

Tom

 

[Brookesy]

Nice project don't see many of them on british roads. Most of the spitfires i've worked on were green but i did have the pleasure of working on 1 that was a maroon colour it looked amazing when it was all polished up.

Looks like you got a lot of work to do with all the at dash wiring.

Shame its only a 1.3 but you could probably shoehorn in a bigger engine maybe even something more modern. If you do keep that engine get rid of that stromberg carb & fit a weber or twin SU's.

 

[49tandc]

Nice project. I had a MK-1 as my 1st car. Underpowered & understered like crazy when pushed hard into a corner. Camber compensator & sway bars will help issue #2. You could solve 1st problem with a turbo - and there is lots of room in there for one. It would be much more fun!

49T&C

 

[IH82BL8]

Very nice. I have a '76 TR6. BTW, I'd be surprised if something that new is Whitworth. All the fittings on mine are standard.

 

[thammel]

I would definitely do a camber compensator and better sway bars. I'd probably go for a better exhaust system and headers. There are tons of options on an engine rebuild. You could have the block bored to increase displacement and have the head milled to increase compression. You could also install a hotter camshaft. For the fuel side, you could do double Webers, but you could also search for a turbo and fuel injection system. Since the GT6 shoehorns in an inline 6 you could try that sort of an upgrade. There are lots of options. I like the easy engine access. I'd pull the engine for sure and start researching. On my TR6, I did the hotter cam and milled the head. At the time I was working in the driveway so my options were a bit limited.

Tom

 

[mikeceli]

Good luck trying to get that thing to tolerate Florida's temps. There better suited to English weather.

WE worked on one in my cali shop, 90 degrees and it would o-heat.

 

[Lippyp]

I've had two, my first car was a 1969 MkIII and then a 75 1500 plus in between a 1500TC which is basically a Dolomite with the 1500 spit engine. I'm guessing the expansion tank over the single stromberg wa a US market thing as I've never seen one over here.

The engines are dead easy to rebuild, as to which engine you put in it, the 1300 revs better as the 1500 is basically a longer stroke version so less happy to rev. I think the earlier 1300's are the best in terms of tuning. If you want a lazy cruiser then a mild 1500 would be maybe a better bet as it has more torque.

For a built engine then I'd suggest:

Twin webbers with the appropriate manifold
Stage two cylinder head
Fast road cam
Header and free flow exhaust
K&N air Filters
The biggest radiator you can fit with an electric fan
Oil cooler
Electronic ignition conversion

I have seen a very neat MK IV with a 3.5L Rover/Buick V8 under the hood, just needed a small scoop to clear the carb. The problem with the Triumph straight six is its a ****** heavy old lump for not that much more power, plus you need the suspension and hood from a GT6. The rover V8 weighs less than the old iron four pot.

My retirement plan involves a MKIII, spit and a 2.0L ford Zetec engine converted to rwd on individual throttle bodies and the old Stelvio pass, although the diff may give up pretty quickly. I also have a hankering to build a replica of the Macau spitfire

Here are some useful links

http://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/engine_building.shtml#Which

http://www.jigsawracingservices.co.uk/

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/homepage/default.html&xsl=homepage.xsl

http://www.tssc.org.uk/

 

[bazzateer]

As said ealier, ditch the Stromberg carb and fit twin SUs. I think the 1300 is more 'tunable' than the 1500 so look into that before getting a 1500. Someone mentioned British Racing Green earlier, this is a pet annoyance of mine. The MGB he showed is not proper BRG, it looks more like Brooklands Green. 'Proper' BRG is so dark it looks black from many angles.

edit: I posted before reading the above post which seems to confirm my thoughts on the 1300 v 1500.

 

[wbclassics]

The problem with Spitfires (like most British cars) is costs incredible amounts to make them right, and yet the car doesn't ever seem to appreciate to any great extent. There are very few Spits that are worth more than $10K in the USA, you can buy really nice somes for $7500.

Yet, we've built Spit engines that cost as much as the value of the completed car. We've got a TR6 project in the shop right now, where the engine's completed price tag is just shy of $11k. This is not a race car, but just a highly developed street car. While it is likely to be one of the best TR6s in the country when it is finished, the owner would have a hard time selling it for more than $25-$30k, despite the fact that his final grand total is going to be more like $65k.

I'll give my advice on what to do with the Spit motor. I personally say stick with the 1500 lump, and build it right. They'll happily do 6000RPM reliably, if attention is paid to the parts used. Internally, by the far the best bang for the buck is a good camshaft profile coupled with a corresponding increase in CR. Rocker shafts wear quickly (measurable significant wear by 25k miles), either go for roller rockers with a bronze bushings (or even rollers) or a hard shaft with bushed original style rockers. Use the higher quality lead/copper bearings, use ARP fasteners. Some of the Spit/TR6 conrod bolts that have come out of India in the last few years are as soft as taffy (no joke)... one major supplier in the USA continues to sell them, despite knowing they're soft and will never torque to their proper spec.

Carbs, twin SUs are a good option. However, since you have four intake ports, the best configuration is one that results in four totally seperate intake tracts. I prefer the 4xMikuni route now vs any dual Weber DCOE route. This is expensive though, you'll drop $1700k on the carbs if you do 4xMikunis.

Exhaust, you already have a cheap aftermarket header on there now. Looks like a Kirk Racing unit. Kirk's stuff is basically copies of the original factory racing items. Depending on who welded the header up, it may be of decent quality, or it may be ****. But a good exhaust (head to tail) is essential.

The number one best improvement we make to these engines now, if the customer's budget allows, is the use of fullly mapped electronic ignition. Either the Webcon Alpha systems if you want a commercial system, or MegaJolt Jr. You'll be in $500 or so for all the parts and ECU, a bunch of fab time, some dyno time... so this isn't cheap, but the improvement in drivability EVERYWHERE in the rev range is great, part throttle fuel economy is much improved, and it allows you to run a slightly more radical engine combination and tame it with the mapped ignition. This all of course relies on getting the map setup right on the rolling road.

We built an autocross 1500 Spit engine for a customer last winter (08-09), and he ended up with about 130hp and an incredibly wide torque curve, for just shy of $9k... which included carbs / exhaust header / ignition, and a ton of internal work.

I only do only a few Spit motors a year, most of our work is on GT6 and TR6 engines. Some of our engine parts are used in two of the fastest GT6 race motors in the country right now.

Kai @ Wishbone Classics

 

[Lippyp]

I'd agree, for some reason Spits don't make the money that even a decent MGB does and thats the same here in the UK. Spits have a reputation as a hairdressers car which seems to keep the price down. Great though as they're never gonna cost big bucks to buy, I loved both of mine and I'm a fairly substantial 6'3" tall and never really had a problem fitting in itor driving them. Like I say, I will have another for when I retire, ideally another MK3 as I think they're prettier.


$9K is a lot to drop on an engine unless you're racing and need to stick within set rules. You could transplant a modern injected engine in for not much more and start off with that sort of power and the potential to get lots more. Over here theres a guy with a Rover K series engined spit that is stupidly fast, ford Zetecs from rotten or crashed Mondeos can be had for a couple of hundred quid along with the conversion parts to turn it fore and aft and it fits straight on to a Ford Type 9 gearbox from a sierra etc. Stick a set of ITB's on, a decent ECU and you're fairly easily up towards 200bhp by which point the diff will be turning to little bits.