1st post & question about Danaher

[tankmech77]

So first off, as the title states this is my 1st post, not only on this site, but ever, I've never ever posted on any forum at all before now. I've been a professional wrench for going on 10 years now and up until this year have been blessed with not having to provide my own tools in the field. Granted sometimes quality lacked a tad. I recently started working in a company that requires me to have my own tools now and have very very quickly changed my opinion on " those snap on tools are nice, and definitely good, but I don't need tools that are that expensive" I haven't sold my soul yet, though pretty close, but i have learned that in many cases the most expensive tool is the cheapest tool. Upon gaining this outlook I've also adopted the practice of trying to buy US made as much as possible. Though I do love my HF 3/8 ratchet, die grinder and air hammer. No means the best but they get abused several times a week and work great for my needs. (which currently is a mix of 99% Toyota 10k fork trucks and 1% industrial tech at the heat treating facility the trucks reside at.) I would like to say I have gotten a HUGE amount of very good info on tools/companies/makers and its been great. I can tell there are some very knowledgeable and dedicated people on this site. Which brings me to the Danaher section of my title. I read here, and elsewhere, all the time things like "danaher makes ***" or "*** was made by Danaher" and this gets me to wondering. Do people just say that as a general statement or do they really not realize what Danaher corporation actually is? for example I have read where some had said matco and craftsman were both made by Danaher and are the same tools. When I first started paying attention to the COO's of my new tool purchases it took less then 2 minutes to find out that Danaher doesnt ANYTHING. They are a holding company whose soul purpose is owning other companies. And yes at one point they DID own matco AND the COMPANY that made craftsman, those 2 particular companies are totally seperate entities. Another examples is crescent brand wrenches produced by apex tool company. Apex tool group is a a conglomeration of tool companies both hand and power, some of which made the tools branded as craftsman. they were a joint venture (until recently) of Danaher and Cooper tools. It takes only seconds of searching and reading to find out that Apex Tool Group STILL OWNS AND PRODUCES the same tools they always did...They just aren't owned by Both Cooper and Danaher anymore, Danaher sold their stake in 2010 I believe I read. I find it very strange to read things like "since *** is no longer produced by Danaher their quality has suffered" The actual tool manufacturers never changed, they just got bought by a different holding group. A quick Google search on Apex Tool Group will bring their corporate page up and with a link showing every brand they make. Armstrong, Allen, (which btw are the actual producers of craftsman, or were anyway before china) GearWrench and whole slew of other very well known brands. Danaher DOES still own Matco however. I apologize for the length of the post, and do not mean to assume no one already knows this. I've just been doing a lot of searching on this forum lately and reading about this subject a lot. Its kind of started nagging at the brain.

 

[dieselgarage]

Danaher has been the death of many good products and companies. They have what they call the 80/20 rule. 80% of the profit is from 20% of the product. So generally 80% of the product or product lines get dropped. They are into far more products and industries than just tools. On the other hand they are by far the lead in Lean Manufacturing lots of the the original Danaher Executives trained right under some of the Experts from Toyota in the Toyota Production System.

 

[jeffmoss26]

My eyes.

 

[sk farmer]

i am glad we finally have an expert on the board......

 

[aka Larry]

I'm not trying to rip on a new member, but you'll get more and better responses with a little editing and formatting.

A huge block of text will drive away a lot of people, including me.

Ditto. It's like trying to view one long sentence!

 

[porschedude996TT]

I would venture to say that the quality of a particular tool company is a varying thing when it changes hands and is trying to make itself viable. If the new company CEO or Board of Directors say knock off the rejection rate and change the level of acceptability on the production line, then it will happen even if it were a great company brand in the past. It could even happen if the company never changed hands and the greedy BOD wanted more profit for the shareholders and more wage in their pockets or if they were struggling in the state of the economy.

The quality of the product is the quality at the time the tool was accepted and left the shipping dock. Companies today only think about one thing these days. Money!
Case in point: I was working as a test flight aircraft mechanic on the flightline for a small high performance twin engine manufacturer in early 1979. I had a girlfriend who bought a new 1980 Ford Mustang. Now in the past I thought Ford was a good company and I only single Ford out for the moment to make my point. I owned Ford products before this and I own a 2010 F250 at the moment.

I performed an inspection of her new 1980 Mustang that she picked up from the dealer the day before. I looked at it as if I was shaking down an aircraft fresh out of manufacturing and preparing for first flight.
I used a yellow legal pad of paper and used almost every line to record a squawk. I filled out one whole sheet for mechanical defects and another two sheets for cosmetic defects.

The mechanical defects included things like a vacuum pod “Sphere” on the firewall being held on with one loose screw, to heavy battery cable not tired down using the pre-attached clip on the cable to a fixed point on the engine, to missing nut-bolt-washer on the link to the lower control arm from the sway bar. Missing hardware to attach the driver’s seat, rear speaker not installed completely, and not even wired to the harness.
The cosmetic squawk list was chips, voids, runs, bald spots on exterior surface.
My point is that things in those days were bad for Ford. This was not the only car that they had problems with; the quality average of fleet production that year was poor. They stepped up their game that year and to my knowledge have not faltered since then.

Why are we to assume that the quality stays the same on a product indefinably? We shouldn’t, that is the point. Things vary over the years and we vote on them with our money every day.

And to finish the story about the Ford, it took the dealer four days to fix all the problems.

 

[Mickey O]

I'm confused, are Craftsman tools still being made by Snap-On in a shed behind their plant in Milwaukee?

 

[Farmall450]

By the way, welcome aboard!

 

[Two Door]

I would venture to say that the quality of a particular tool company is a varying thing when it changes hands and is trying to make itself viable. If the new company CEO or Board of Directors say knock off the rejection rate and change the level of acceptability on the production line, then it will happen even if it were a great company brand in the past. It could even happen if the company never changed hands and the greedy BOD wanted more profit for the shareholders and more wage in their pockets or if they were struggling in the state of the economy.
.......
Why are we to assume that the quality stays the same on a product indefinably? We shouldn’t, that is the point. Things vary over the years and we vote on them with our money every day.

This.

It is completely unrealistic to assume that strategic acquisitions/divestitures at the corporate level don't translate into quality changes at the factory level.

Holding groups and companies sometimes buy or sell other companies because they like how they do things and want to continue under that strategy, but it is just as likely that they are making the switch under the assumption that there is gold to be mined by cheapening the process or standard while attempting to capitalize on the price premium that the market respect for the brand has traditionally drawn.

I would go so far as to say that this latter strategy is the predominant one now, that companies more often buy with the explicit intention of lowering the costs or quality to match a particular price/margin combination.

 

[Adam.C]

Thanks- I didn't know Danaher wasn't the manufacturer.

I have craftsman wrenches and sockets with different manufacturer codes stamped on them: V, EE (favs), GK, K etc. The quality differences of the tools is apparent (especially after long hard use by me). I always felt the "Danaher built" tools were fairly good. Like the SK stuff too (stubby combo wrenches). With this information, I'm no longer sure I would look for specific codes.

For the OP, I think in your profession, you'd be making a mistake choosing anything but Snap On. I think I even prefer the new Snap On Pliers to KNIPEX. My only advice is that I think I would try to buy stuff second hand. I buy Snappys on ebay for half retail (sometimes less) that are new or virtually new. I bought some used new model ratchets, replaced their handles and rebuilt the heads. I feel like I have new performing tools for a fraction of list (thinking specifically of my 24" flex-head dual 80 1/2" drive ratchet- all told about $115, $215 list).

I do get deals off the truck occassionally. I think it's possible you could spend several $1000 for an entire set from some young tech.

I'm not sure how anyone could justify the prices of Snap On boxes however. I have a Kennedy, made in USA box and I think it has the same crappy drawer slides HF uses. The casters weren't great either. Hate to say something bad about a US manufacturer, but I'd probably not buy another. That said, I don't like the color of the HF 44" box. The Snap On boxes are nice looking and available in a nice selection of sizes (which maybe answers my question about justifying their price).

 

[Wakefield]

I think that at one time Armstrong, Crescent, Allen and Moore Drop Forge were all independents and were then acquired by Danaher? Then perhaps some of the factories were closed?
Now Denaher has completely sold/gotten out of the picture? Also "Apex" are there two different businesses with the name "Apex"? A corporate umbrella and/or holding company replacing Danaher and another company making torx bits?
Was Bonney Tool bought out by a competitor just so it could be shut down?
Did something like that happen to the old Western Maryland "Fast Freight Line"?

 

[CWP1616L]

I'm not trying to rip on a new member, but you'll get more and better responses with a little editing and formatting.

A huge block of text will drive away a lot of people, including me.

I kept reading the post thinking to myself: "Where's the question? Where's the question?"

 

[Heavy tech]

For the OP, I think in your profession, you'd be making a mistake choosing anything but Snap On).

There is life out side of snap on! Yes, they are beauitful, exceptionally performing tools, but the notion that a tech MUST have ALL snap on tools is ridiculous.

How do you guys feed your families? I would like to know how many guys here have gotten divorced due to snap on addiction.



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[CWP1616L]

There is life out side of snap on!

No there's not!! We only live a 100 years and that's not enough time to collect Snap-on.

 

[Heavy tech]

No there's not!! We only live a 100 years and that's not enough time to collect Snap-on.

Don't get me wrong, I love SO too, it's kind of a PITA for me to catch the truck or I'd own more of it. If guys want to collect SO for their own personal pleasure that's one thing. But I know guys, one in particular, that's 24 years old, driving around in a $500 car that owes snap on $10,000. It's a disease!


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[CWP1616L]

But I know guys, one in particular, that's 24 years old, driving around in a $500 car that owes snap on $10,000. It's a disease!

There's worse things to owe money on though.

 

[joel63]

No there's not!! We only live a 100 years and that's not enough time to collect Snap-on.

Yes!!!!!

 

[928'er]

Needs white space.

Try using paragraphs - or at least leave a line between sentences.

As others have pointed out, not many people will even bother to read a solid block of text like your first post.

Oh, by the way, welcome.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I'm not sure how anyone could justify the prices of Snap On boxes however. I have a Kennedy, made in USA box and I think it has the same crappy drawer slides HF uses. The casters weren't great either. Hate to say something bad about a US manufacturer, but I'd probably not buy another. That said, I don't like the color of the HF 44" box. The Snap On boxes are nice looking and available in a nice selection of sizes (which maybe answers my question about justifying their price).

Easy to justify a "truck Box"...be it a SO, MAC or what have you, heck sounds like you already know one of the reasons "Same Crappy Drawer Slides".....to me the term "Built like a brick **** house" comes to mind. Honestly I'm new to the KRL Owners Club, but my dad made his living with tools and he always had high end boxes, and I can easily see why. This horse has been beaten often here. Those Jeep Stickers that read "Its a Jeep Thing...You Wouldn't Understand" would fit...except make it read "Its a KRL/Epiq/Macsimizer thing...You Wouldn't Understand".
People want to compare and say the 44" HF is just as good as the big boy boxes...Absolutely not. Its no where near the quality of a truck box. BUT what I will say and agree with is for the $359-400 bucks you can not find a better built box. Best deal around I've seen.

Don't get me wrong, I love SO too, it's kind of a PITA for me to catch the truck or I'd own more of it. If guys want to collect SO for their own personal pleasure that's one thing. But I know guys, one in particular, that's 24 years old, driving around in a $500 car that owes snap on $10,000. It's a disease!

You could say the same about Gambling/Drinking/Smoking/Illegal Drugs/Racing/Motor Toys/Anything really....heck I know a guy who is computer game poor...spends all his money on computer games and stuff of that sort....Everybody has "a thing" where they dump money. Its all about overall money management, some people just seem to use the same accounting as the government...IMO Cant blame the tool truck guy, the guy you talk about who owes 10k to SO and has a 500.00 car could easily be the other way around....Owe 500 bucks on his HF Credit Card and be driving around on his 10k Motorcycle...is there a difference?

 

[abvw]

Easy to justify a "truck Box"...be it a SO, MAC or what have you, heck sounds like you already know one of the reasons "Same Crappy Drawer Slides".....to me the term "Built like a brick **** house" comes to mind. Honestly I'm new to the KRL Owners Club, but my dad made his living with tools and he always had high end boxes, and I can easily see why. This horse has been beaten often here. Those Jeep Stickers that read "Its a Jeep Thing...You Wouldn't Understand" would fit...except make it read "Its a KRL/Epiq/Macsimizer thing...You Wouldn't Understand".
People want to compare and say the 44" HF is just as good as the big boy boxes...Absolutely not. Its no where near the quality of a truck box. BUT what I will say and agree with is for the $359-400 bucks you can not find a better built box. Best deal around I've seen.




You could say the same about Gambling/Drinking/Smoking/Illegal Drugs/Racing/Motor Toys/Anything really....heck I know a guy who is computer game poor...spends all his money on computer games and stuff of that sort....Everybody has "a thing" where they dump money. Its all about overall money management, some people just seem to use the same accounting as the government...IMO Cant blame the tool truck guy, the guy you talk about who owes 10k to SO and has a 500.00 car could easily be the other way around....Owe 500 bucks on his HF Credit Card and be driving around on his 10k Motorcycle...is there a difference?

 

[B17E1943]

My eyes.

lol