2-2-2-4 mhf for detached garage

[1SickTSI]

My father-in-law and i just got done building my 30x30 garage and now the fun with the wiring happens. My manufactured home has a 200amp panel in the yard with the meter next to it and that feeds 200amp service to my house. I am going to add a 100amp breaker to that panel box that is outside in the yard and run it 112 feet underground to my garage to a 100amp sub panel. I believe i need 2 grounding rods outside the garage as well? MHF will have to run through schedule 40 correct? And my last question is will that 2-2-2-4 MHF wire connect to the 100amp breaker with no issues? Just worried about it being to large to fit into the 100amp breaker.

 

[Innovate1]

MHF can be direct bury without conduit. Or with conduit if you want. It has to be run in conduit above ground. And #2 wire is only good for 90A in this application. The wire will fit that size breaker with no issue.

 

[1SickTSI]

MHF can be direct bury without conduit. Or with conduit if you want. It has to be run in conduit above ground. And #2 wire is only good for 90A in this application. The wire will fit that size breaker with no issue.

thank you for the reply, i believe in my area per code i have to have it in conduit. When you say only good for 90amp does this mean i am still good to go with my 100amp breaker with MHF?

 

[1SickTSI]

MHF can be direct bury without conduit. Or with conduit if you want. It has to be run in conduit above ground. And #2 wire is only good for 90A in this application. The wire will fit that size breaker with no issue.

below is the wire i plan on buying

2-2-2-4 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable

Specifications : Cable Construction : 2-2-2-4, Phase Conductor; Insulation (mils) : 60, Insul. Phase Conductor; Diameter (inches) : 0.390, Insul. Grounded (Neutral) Conductor; Diameter Inches : 0.390, Insul. Equipment Grounding Conductor; Diameter Inches : 0.290, Cable Diameter Inches : 0.944...

nassaunationalcable.com

 

[Crazyjake8493]

thank you for the reply, i believe in my area per code i have to have it in conduit. When you say only good for 90amp does this mean i am still good to go with my 100amp breaker with MHF?

It must be fed by no more than a 90amp breaker at the main panel, but the subpanel in the garage can have a 100amp main breaker, since it is merely a disconnect at that point.

 

[Innovate1]

thank you for the reply, i believe in my area per code i have to have it in conduit. When you say only good for 90amp does this mean i am still good to go with my 100amp breaker with MHF?

Yes, your area may have more restrictive requirements than the national code and so require conduit. What I was stating was the typical requirements. No, you can't use a 100A breaker on the feed end. The web page you linked to states 100A but that is for applications different than your use. In your case the limit is 90A. You can use a 100A sub panel main as that is just a shutoff and doesn't provide overcurrent protection in your case.

 

[mike93lx]

#2 AL is only good for 100a when it feeds the entire load of a dwelling. In this application, 90a is the allowable limit

 

[pattenp]

MHF by the NEC can be direct bury if 24" or more deep. If under 24" to a minimum of 18" of cover requires conduit.

 

[mm08822]

I would skip the mhf and pull AL XHHW.....2, 2, 4, 6Grn in the conduit. This will give you an easier pull.

 

[cr-garagedoor]

The specific requirements for grounding depend on your local electrical code. In many cases, two grounding rods spaced at least 6 feet apart and connected to the sub panel's grounding bar are required to ensure proper grounding.
Schedule 40 PVC conduit is a common choice for this purpose, as it provides good protection against moisture and physical damage.

 

[1SickTSI]

thank you for the input guys, i appreciate it!

i was originally going to go with this stuff but then after doing a bit of reading this wire is not allowed to enter the building

https://nassaunationalcable.com/products/2-2-2-4-****-quadruplex

 

[mike93lx]

thank you for the input guys, i appreciate it!

i was originally going to go with this stuff but then after doing a bit of reading this wire is not allowed to enter the building

https://nassaunationalcable.com/products/2-2-2-4-****-quadruplex

That's correct. Good move.

I'd look at xhhw as well (requires a full conduit run) and go at least one size larger on conduit than the calcs says. I like to run the conduit, then **** a string through and pull that to measure. Build in extra length on each end then buy that number. You'll know it will be enough then

 

[Innovate1]

I would skip the mhf and pull AL XHHW.....2, 2, 4, 6Grn in the conduit. This will give you an easier pull.

I agree since it will be conduit all the way (XHHW requires conduit for burial) although the OP needs to check if they allow reduced neutral in his area. If not the #4 may need to be #2.

 

[1SickTSI]

That's correct. Good move.

I'd look at xhhw as well (requires a full conduit run) and go at least one size larger on conduit than the calcs says. I like to run the conduit, then **** a string through and pull that to measure. Build in extra length on each end then buy that number. You'll know it will be enough then

I am going to go that route, get the 2-2 in black, 4 in white and 6 in green. Literally comes out to be the same price as the MHF and i like the idea of sucking a string through the conduit before ordering the wire.

 

[mike93lx]

I am going to go that route, get the 2-2 in black, 4 in white and 6 in green. Literally comes out to be the same price as the MHF and i like the idea of sucking a string through the conduit before ordering the wire.

If you haven't done it before, tie a plastic bag onto a light string (I like mason line for this), and then put a shop vac on the other end. If you let the line spool out, it will fly though the pipe in a couple seconds.

Just don't pull with Mason line. It will cut the pipe up.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The specific requirements for grounding depend on your local electrical code. In many cases, two grounding rods spaced at least 6 feet apart and connected to the sub panel's grounding bar are required to ensure proper grounding.
Schedule 40 PVC conduit is a common choice for this purpose, as it provides good protection against moisture and physical damage.

not quite. the NEC requires 2 rods unless one can prove 25ohms or less to earth with one....

 

[1SickTSI]

not quite. the NEC requires 2 rods unless one can prove 25ohms or less to earth with one....

do the grounding rods get wired separately to the box? or can i piggy back off one grounding rod to the other 6 feet away? All this code stuff is confusing.

 

[1SickTSI]

If you haven't done it before, tie a plastic bag onto a light string (I like mason line for this), and then put a shop vac on the other end. If you let the line spool out, it will fly though the pipe in a couple seconds.

Just don't pull with Mason line. It will cut the pipe up.

Nice, i will have to try it that way. I also found MHF 2-2-4-6 wire or should i just stick with the XHHW?

2-2-4-6 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable

2-2-4-6 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable: 100 Amps, 600V, NEC-approved, UL-rated for wet/dry locations with durable XLP insulation. Ideal for mobile homes.

nassaunationalcable.com

 

[wyliesdiesels]

do the grounding rods get wired separately to the box? or can i piggy back off one grounding rod to the other 6 feet away? All this code stuff is confusing.

you can go from one rod to the other and then to the panel's ground bar

 

[mike93lx]

Nice, i will have to try it that way. I also found MHF 2-2-4-6 wire or should i just stick with the XHHW?

2-2-4-6 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable

2-2-4-6 Aluminum Mobile Home Feeder Cable: 100 Amps, 600V, NEC-approved, UL-rated for wet/dry locations with durable XLP insulation. Ideal for mobile homes.

nassaunationalcable.com

Cost is probably a wash. If you buy mhf, it will be twisted together, so all on one spool. Might make the pull a little less work, but it can be easier to handle.

I haven't pulled a ton of wire, but have found it helpful to spool out all the conductors together then put them together on a single spool

 

[Innovate1]

Cost is probably a wash. If you buy mhf, it will be twisted together, so all on one spool. Might make the pull a little less work, but it can be easier to handle.

I haven't pulled a ton of wire, but have found it helpful to spool out all the conductors together then put them together on a single spool

I ordered individual spools for each conductor from wireandcableyourway.com - they will do custom lengths for each spool. Put all the spools on a length of pipe and you can pull them all - a lot less trouble than respooling all strands onto one spool.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am going to add a 100amp breaker to that panel box that is outside in the yard and run it 112 feet underground to my garage to a 100amp sub panel.

Overkill ! (But that is what GJ is all about, isn't it ?)

I would use a 60A breaker at the house. Unless you are going to running more than 1 welder, or a welder and a plasma cutter simultaneously along with a AC unit, you probably will never exceed 60A ! Depending on the number of circuits in the panel in the garage it may not require a "main" breaker at all. Don't worry a bout a miss match in the breaker. The one at the house is the one that counts. The "main" in the garage is a convenient "disconnect" so you can work inside the panel while it is "dead".

 

[mike93lx]

I ordered individual spools for each conductor from wireandcableyourway.com - they will do custom lengths for each spool. Put all the spools on a length of pipe and you can pull them all - a lot less trouble than respooling all strands onto one spool.

If you can find a good way to support them without one unwinding on its own or getting bound up.

I get its possible and done all the time by pros. But for an amateur, I think the prep is worth it. Also, in my case they didn't deliver on spools...it was just coils, so unwinding would have been a real PIA.

 

[sparky 1971]

If you can find a good way to support them without one unwinding on its own or getting bound up.

Doesn't everyone have a 10' stick of 2" rigid laying around? All of the spools go on it and it gets supported on something at each end. I have the Rackatiers supports, but have also used two ladders many times.

I get its possible and done all the time by pros. But for an amateur, I think the prep is worth it. Also, in my case they didn't deliver on spools...it was just coils, so unwinding would have been a real PIA.

With #2, if it's under 150' I just order it coiled, roll it all out on the ground and pull it in. If the pulls are inside, I get spools when over 100'

 

[mike93lx]

Doesn't everyone have a 10' stick of 2" rigid laying around? All of the spools go on it and it gets supported on something at each end. I have the Rackatiers supports, but have also used two ladders many times.

With #2, if it's under 150' I just order it coiled, roll it all out on the ground and pull it in. If the pulls are inside, I get spools when over 100'

Hey, lots of way to do it. No argument there.

 

[Wiz02]

I ordered individual spools for each conductor from wireandcableyourway.com - they will do custom lengths for each spool. Put all the spools on a length of pipe and you can pull them all - a lot less trouble than respooling all strands onto one spool.

I built this out of pvc laying around plus fittings that I bought. Worked well for a one time use.

 

[1SickTSI]

Overkill ! (But that is what GJ is all about, isn't it ?)

I would use a 60A breaker at the house. Unless you are going to running more than 1 welder, or a welder and a plasma cutter simultaneously along with a AC unit, you probably will never exceed 60A ! Depending on the number of circuits in the panel in the garage it may not require a "main" breaker at all. Don't worry a bout a miss match in the breaker. The one at the house is the one that counts. The "main" in the garage is a convenient "disconnect" so you can work inside the panel while it is "dead".

I am sure you know this already by reading the thread and by the sounds of it you are definitely on another level from my amateur skills lol

The 90amp breaker i am installing will be at the 200amp main panel in my front yard that sits about 30 feet from my house, that box feeds my 200amp box in the house. There will be AC in the garage but will not always be running, stove for my powder coating and next year i will be buying a 2 post car lift, other than those nothing else will draw much but i would rather have enough than not enough.

I have already bought everything except for the MHF. This coming weekend i plan on getting all the 12/2 wire run to everything, bought a 1,000 foot roll of that. There will be 7 breakers in my box, 2 15s , 4 20s and 1 50amp

 

[Innovate1]

I built this out of pvc laying around plus fittings that I bought. Worked well for a one time use.

Looks great but seems like overkill for one time use. I just used a scrap of 3/4" steel plumbing pipe and tied it to a couple ladders.

 

[Wiz02]

Looks great but seems like overkill for one time use. I just used a scrap of 3/4" steel plumbing pipe and tied it to a couple ladders.

Agreed that it was overkill, but I was using my ladders for the pull. Besides it was fun and easy to build, not to mention that overkill is required for GJ members

 

[alfredeneuman]

Schedule 40 PVC conduit is a common choice for this purpose, as it provides good protection against moisture and physical damage.

Sch 80 is listed for protection from physical damage. Sch 40 is not.
#6 and larger can be run without conduit as long as it is run tight to the structure

 

[Innovate1]

Sch 80 is listed for protection from physical damage. Sch 40 is not.
#6 and larger can be run without conduit as long as it is run tight to the structure

This is likely something that varies with location. I used sch40 for mine and it passed inspection. Don't remember if that was how I was told to do it or if it went above minimum local requirements.

 

[TractorJeff]

I have already bought everything except for the MHF. This coming weekend i plan on getting all the 12/2 wire run to everything, bought a 1,000 foot roll of that. There will be 7 breakers in my box, 2 15s , 4 20s and 1 50amp

For what its worth: I ran a 30 amp 220 breaker for my AC. Then the welding area got a 50 amp 220 breaker for the big welder. And a 30 amp 220 breaker for the smaller welder. I ran 6 gauge wire on the 50 amp breaker for the next guy that owns this place whether he puts in an Oven or an EV Charger!
What I am driving at, is think of where you might be 1 year or 10 years down the road with Toys and Projects. In my case I have sheetrock finished walls and don't want to be fishing in the HOT attic to install new runs!